Resource Scientific Approach to Understanding SI and Discussion on Tools to Minimze SI Factors

[athiestjoe]

This post aims to provide an educational/informational overview of the various scientific factors that contribute to survival instincts (SI), particularly the innate drive for self-preservation and the automatic responses that arise in the face of harm and danger. While it does not delve into every aspect of this complex topic, it focuses on the underlying biological, genetic, and psychological mechanisms that influence our instinctual behaviors. Survival instincts are deeply ingrained and operate at a subconscious level, driven by our DNA and evolutionary history. These automatic responses are not something individuals can easily shut off; they are fundamental to our biology and play a critical role in ensuring safety and survival.

It's completely natural to feel a bit worried about SI—they're a part of who we are, and it's hard to argue against their existence when we all know they're there. If you're curious, check out some of the discussions here to gain a deeper understanding of what survival instincts are like [1][2][3][4][5][6][7] (there are plenty of other posts too). It's one thing to read about it, but experiencing it firsthand can really open your eyes. There is absolutely no shame in having SI or being unable to follow through with CTB due to SI and so this post helps objectively look at why it is we have SI to help explain how these factors are working against us in our efforts to CTB. Contrary to what some might think, SI is not an invention of a mind that feels the need to have a "noble" cause for their failure or their "weakness" in an attempt to avoid shame. Nor does it lack usefulness as a concept, as it has its explanatory value within biology, evolution, and the nature of behavior for sentient beings. It is a very real thing, as we shall soon dive into further.

Generally, these instincts are encoded in our genetics and manifest through neurobiological processes. Key hormones like adrenaline and cortisol, along with neurotransmitters such as serotonin and dopamine, modulate responses to threats and facilitate behaviors that promote safety.

Despite reports of suicide, global statistics indicate that the vast majority of people do not attempt or succeed in CTB. For example, the World Health Organization reports that the global suicide rate is approximately 10.5 per 100,000 people, indicating that, overall, people generally prefer to live. Additionally, even in regions where medical assistance in dying is permitted, not all terminally ill patients choose death or ever use their 'death prescriptions', further illustrating the instinctual drive to live. This preference for life over death is deeply ingrained in our DNA and genetic code.

There's plenty of anecdotal evidence—real-life stories and experiences—that shed light on how strong this SI truly can be. You don't need this or any overly complex scientific explanation to see that it exists and shows up in different ways. Remember, science itself doesn't definitively prove or disprove anything; it's more about understanding the natural world through observation and evidence. So, when we draw conclusions from our own experiences or those of others, we're still engaging in a scientific process, even if it's not strictly lab-based. Of course, we need to be mindful of biases, which is crucial for any scientific inquiry. Which is why I am approaching it from a more objective level outside of stories. This is not going to discuss matters such as the role of things like generalized or major depressive disorders, PTSD, or too many psychological aspects as they pertain to SI, given that I think the majority of people can already reasonably make some conclusions about their role in either creating or reducing SI on an individual basis. Here we are going to look at more applicable factors ingrained in almost every human.

Does Everyone Experience SI the Same Way? Nope, not really! Everyone's survival instincts are shaped by their unique environments and experiences, even though there are biological factors at play for all of us. Factors such as upbringing, cultural background, and personal encounters with danger all influence how individuals perceive and react to threats. It's important to take this variability into account, as understanding that survival instincts can differ encourages thoughtful consideration rather than impulsive reactions. But, we are all subject to the general biological factors we are going to discuss.

Some SI Scientific Factors:

• Threat & Fear Responses: The amygdala plays a central role in detecting threats and triggering emotional responses. It communicates with the hypothalamus, activating the HPA axis for stress response. The ventromedial prefrontal cortex also contributes by modulating fear responses and decision-making under stress. The amygdala's activation is crucial for the rapid assessment of threat and initiation of appropriate responses, illustrating its vital role in what drives SI. Also, the thalamus relays sensory information to the amygdala before it reaches higher cortical areas, enabling rapid responses to perceived threats. This rapid pathway is vital for instinctual reactions. The amygdala plays a critical role in processing fear, helping to identify threats and triggering the hypothalamus's fight-or-flight response (discussed a little more below). "We really cannot underestimate the role of the ecology of fear, a completely natural response...
• Hippocampus & Learned Behavior: The hippocampus is crucial for forming new memories and learning from past experiences. It helps individuals recall previous threats and successes, guiding future self-preserving behaviors. The hippocampus plays a significant role in the consolidation of information from short-term to long-term memory.
• Fight or Flight: This instinct is part of our autonomic nervous system, meaning it operates without conscious control. The reason the body prefers self-preservation over harm is rooted in our evolutionary need to survive and reproduce. From a biological standpoint, living organisms are programmed to avoid death and maintain their existence. When faced with danger, the body prioritizes actions that reduce the risk of harm, focusing on escaping or overcoming the threat. When faced with danger, it triggers physiological changes to prepare the body to confront or escape from the threat. In moments of extreme stress, this response often takes precedence over self-destructive impulses, focusing energy on survival. The CRH (Corticotropin-Releasing Hormone) gene plays a critical role in this response by regulating the release of cortisol, a hormone that helps manage stress and response to perceived threats and stress inducing situations. These are autonomous reactions of the body trying to fight off the dangerous situation even when not awake and alert, the body is still working overtime to save itself and will find anyway it can to survive.
• Pain Avoidance: The anterior cingulate cortex (ACC) and the insular cortex process pain and emotional reactions. This area of the brain assesses the unpleasantness of pain, leading to rapid withdrawal from harmful stimuli. Associations with things that will bring known pain will send reactions in the brain to work overtime to avoid those situations.
• Homeostasis: This self-regulating process involves sensors throughout the body measuring various factors and sending information to the brain. The brain then works to maintain stability and balance, which includes responses toward SI. Homeostasis is essential for survival, allowing organisms to adapt to changes in their environment.
• Social Connection: The medial prefrontal cortex (mPFC) is involved in understanding social dynamics. It helps individuals navigate social threats and rewards, fostering connections that enhance survival through social support. Genetic influences, such as the OXT (Oxytocin Gene), play a role in promoting prosocial behaviors crucial for group survival. This leads to a natural push for humans to continue surviving by any means necessary.
• Cognitive Evaluation: The dorsolateral prefrontal cortex is key for higher cognitive functions like reasoning and decision-making. It assesses risks and benefits in complex situations, guiding behaviors toward self-preservation.
• Genetic Factors: Genetic influences affect neurotransmitter systems, particularly those involving serotonin and dopamine, which modulate mood and fear responses. Specific genes such as COMT (Catechol-O-Methyltransferase), BDNF (Brain-derived neurotrophic factor), NR3C1 (glucocorticoid receptor gene), and SLC6A4 (Serotonin Transporter Gene) are implicated in how individuals respond to stress and emotional stimuli. These will play a role in SI due to release of chemicals in the brain we do not have any direct, easy, reliable way to offset on our own.

From an anthropological perspective, humans have evolved in social groups where cooperation and social bonding enhance survival chances. This communal aspect is reinforced through the release of neurochemicals like oxytocin, which promotes trust and bonding, thereby increasing the likelihood of cooperative behaviors crucial for survival.

All of these factors, but is not exhaustive by any means, are all well founded scientific understandings that can play into SI.

Methods for Overcoming SI: There are some things that influence the perception of threats, help reduce anxiety and stress, dull or lessen fear-based reactions all of which can be factors into SI. There is no truly effective way to fully numb or dull SI given (as you have learned) how ingrained into our very human fabric they are, although the below are some commonly discussed methods discussed in overcoming SI which we will evaluate the efficacy of:

• Medication: Certain medications can reduce anxiety/stress, increase apathy and reduce cognitive function, particularly useful for CTB are benzodiazepines. Other medications (such as antipsychotics, allergy medications) may cause some sedation in some but are largely ineffective for CTB or overcoming self preservation instincts. Benzos, however, enhance the effect of the neurotransmitter gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA), which has inhibitory effects on brain activity. Here's how they might reduce survival instinct or self-preservation responses through (1) anxiety reduction, (2) sedation, (3) cognitive function reduction and (4) emotional blunting. Medications such as lorazepam, alprazolam, diazepam and clonazepam (all benzos) are pretty quick acting and generally well tolerated in most people. There is always a risk they could cause someone to pass out if too many are taken without any tolerance or worse make errors in more technical CTB methods. Mild to moderate dosing in people who can tolerate benzos are likely one of the best methods to ease some SI and help take the anxiety edge off just enough. No one needs to overdo the dosing unless it is part of a specific protocol to take a particularly large dose. Would suggest benzos in proper dosing to help with anxiety, reduce fear response, and cause a smoother CTB experience overall.
• Alcohol: Alcohol enhances the activity of gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA), the primary inhibitory neurotransmitter in the brain and increases dopamine release in the brain's reward pathways, which can create feelings of euphoria and reduce negative emotional states, including anxiety. Alcohol can dampen fear responses and may provide temporary relief from anxiety, however like with benzos they can impact motor skills, and deteriorate one's general perception of the situation which can lead to some mistakes happening. Mild or moderate use in someone who can tolerate alcohol is likely OK (for most). Do not go overboard getting wasted drunk, and then attempt CTB, as the chances of error get substantially higher the drunker someone gets. No need to overdo alcohol. Some protocols encourage (while others explicitly discourage) alcohol consumption so always research before using. Would suggest in light dosing depending on method to help take the edge off (relaxation alone is not enough to overcome SI, but it may help).
• Marijuana: The active compounds in marijuana (particularly THC) affect the endocannabinoid system, modulating anxiety and fear. Many users report that marijuana alleviates anxiety and fear, which might temporarily reduce the acute stress response that is critical for self-preservation (not for everyone though!) but can also lead to paranoia, which may exacerbate SIs and heighten feelings of threat for some. Would not suggest someone who has never used marijuana to try this given individual response varies, and like benzos and alcohol, can create mobility, dexterity and perception issues, though usually not nearly to the same degree. Others may have a significant tolerance due to routine use; you will know your experience and your reaction the best. While some also believe marijuana could be helpful for anti-nausea properties and also for anxiety purposes, it reacts too differently in each person for it to be considered a reliable addition in a general way. If you have used marijuana in the past and found it enjoyable, then it is not likely to greatly do any harm unless overdone. Neutral, neither suggest nor not suggest.
• Ketamine: Ketamine blocks NMDA receptors, disrupting glutamate signaling and altering dopamine and serotonin levels. This leads to dissociation, reduced pain perception, and mood changes like euphoria. It also reduces fear and anxiety by dampening the amygdala's activity, which processes fear which contributes to self-preservation (thus a positive for CTB). However, ketamine can impair decision-making and induce detachment from reality, causing hallucinations and time distortions. Doses of ~0.2 and 0.5 mg/kg can be experimented with on a separate occasion, not right before a CTB, to see how it affects you individually and if produces the desired affect and whether or not it hinders your dexterity or spatial awareness too much. Higher doses (1 mg/kg or more) can lead to the intense dissociative state known as a "K-hole," and may lead to much higher risk of mistakes due to lack of perception. Since everyone will differ based on tolerance, general mental health, and other factors, it should be experimented with before deciding to use. Neutral, neither suggest nor not suggest.
• Psychedelics: Substances like psilocybin should likely be avoided as they may also induce anxiety or paranoia in some individuals, especially in uncontrolled environments. The effects can vary widely depending on individual circumstances and also lead to a huge risk of messing up and potentially even injuring others (depending on the method). Would not suggest.
• Cognitive Reappraisal: This is perhaps the most (along with Meditation) out of the box concept because it is far more abstract. By familiarizing yourself with your method, about death, the process of dying, seeking as much knowledge about it as possible, will all surely help. I am intentionally not linking items here as you can do outside research and I do not want to expose anyone to content they may not be ready to see and explore. And yes, it is outstandingly true that mental preparation does not alone overcome SI. However, understanding death and the dying process of one's method can reduce the fear around it, which as we already discussed at length is a contributor to various of the responses in the brain when fear, perceived threats are present, etc., thus reducing the fear around death, your method, and complication possibilities of your method would be a good thing. All will help to reduce the stimuli responses relating to fear. This cognitive reappraisal involves reframing a potentially threatening situation by viewing it in a more positive or less threatening light. By understanding the facts, individuals can reinterpret the situation, reducing fear responses. Knowledge can act as a buffer against fear by providing context and clarity about a situation. When individuals understand what they are afraid of, they are less likely to overestimate the threat. This also leads to desensitization (familiarity with a fear-inducing stimulus through education can lead to desensitization, where repeated exposure to the information reduces the emotional response over time), by learning facts, individuals can reduce this uncertainty, which in turn lessens their fear response and engaging in rational thinking and critical analysis of information can counteract emotional responses to fear, promoting a more measured reaction to what we auto-pilot away from when exposed to fear-inducing stimuli. These psychological mechanisms illustrate how knowledge and understanding can help mitigate fear responses, making it easier for individuals to cope with potentially threatening stimuli. Perhaps even just by reading this you have already begun initial steps on cognitive reappraisal! I (maybe surprisingly to some) do suggest this method, as a well thought and educated decision may not alone overcome SI, but it is undoubtedly more beneficial than harmful.
• Meditation and Mindfulness: Mastery of meditation practices theoretically could help (another out of the box approach). Neuroscientific studies show that mindfulness can decrease amygdala activation through resting state functional connectivity (rsFC) which may play a role in overcoming SI. However, this is an outstandingly difficult, but not impossible, method; although some instances, such as the mastery of a Buddhist monk, are likely not achievable for the average, or even above average, person. If you like and want to meditate, go for it, just don't count on it really helping. Would not suggest as effective but no harm to it.

If SI is Real then How do People CTB? Obviously, given there are many successes, SI can and is overcome by plenty of people or merely ignored altogether through and overwhelming self-determination. And not everyone has as strong SI as others, some people simply also just have lessened SI due to life experiences. The specific method one chooses also comes into play. For example, the less time there is for a specific method to take effect (either by facilitating unconsciousness, significantly reduced awareness, or death), the less likely the person will have their SI take over or call for help out of panic – e.g. if someone needs to jump off a bridge there is more time for a fear response to kick in from the ledge, more time to back out of a noose for hanging, whereas there is far less time in pulling a trigger of a gun (although plenty of people fail to pull a trigger). And things like SN may create enough anxiety in the time it takes to kick in that people have reported calling for medical help, while others have successful done it. It does vary quite a bit, but generally the quicker and greater the ease of initiation in a given method lends less time for SI to activate. However, I am not suggesting people just pick a "fast" method to overcome SI, CTB should be well thought out and planned and not an impulse anyways. There is also a big difference in understanding what SI is and actually experiencing it moments before attempting. Again, there is no shame in if your SI takes over. Each person is going to be a bit different, and while the vast majority of people have a strong drive for self-preservation, various psychological factors can lead that reduction such as overall mental health, trauma, extreme hopelessness overriding the SI, and also utter determination cannot be underestimated.

Neuroscientific research indicates that certain brain regions, including the prefrontal cortex and amygdala, are involved in decision-making and emotional regulation (we discussed these earlier). Dysregulation in these areas can contribute to a shift of perception and judgment regarding life and death.

For some, the overwhelming nature of their suffering is also very sufficient for overcoming the SI without any sort of method to dull or reduce it. There is absolutely no shame in having SI and being unable to carry through, and it may be a sign that you need more time to think about the decision, which everyone here absolutely understands. However, it is important to realize the reasons SI exists and not feel you aren't capable or "strong willed" enough, but rather just have an innate human drive towards self-preservation that is out of your control.

The science around SI reveals a complex interplay of genetics, biological, evolutionary, neurological, and psychological factors that drive humans to protect itself against harm, stress, responses to danger, and general instinct to survive. Of course, there are going to be highly personalized variables at play but this post is just exploring some of them from an informational standpoint to help explain what we all already knew on a general level: SI can be challenging to overcome, there are ways to ease it, and that everybody's are a little bit different. Now, though, we have a little bit more knowledge and informational basis as to some of things that really drive SI on a more detailed level.

I wish you all the best of luck in whatever you decide and hope you find peace & serenity!

 

[heyhoherewego]

Nice writeup! thank you for taking the time out to research this.
since you have researched this, i was wondering if you had any comment on as to when exactly to take benzos before an attempt?

 

[Plato'sCaveDweller]

Fantastic write-up! Hopefully this can not only inform but also spark a more civil and good faith discussion or debate over SI, instead of what occurred in a recent thread.

 

[SoulWhisperer]

Fantastic post, I'm sure this took quite a while to write so props to you. Thank you for sharing this.

 

[athiestjoe]

Nice writeup! thank you for taking the time out to research this.
since you have researched this, i was wondering if you had any comment on as to when exactly to take benzos before an attempt?

The onset of benzodiazepines can vary slightly; for example, clonazepam takes longer to take effect compared to lorazepam and alprazolam. Generally, you can expect noticeable effects within 15 minutes to 1 hour, with most lasting a few hours—though clonazepam tends to have a longer duration of action. It's important to follow specific protocol guidelines regarding timing for taking these medications.

The 30-minute to 1-hour timeframe assumes a standard dose. If someone takes a high dose and has no tolerance, the onset may be shorter, even 15 minutes until knocked on their ass asleep. For common lower doses, 30 to 60 minutes is typical, but even low doses could lead to sedation in someone with no tolerance within 30 minutes though. While benzodiazepines can be effective, they do come with that risk.

A good approach might be to try a low dose on a separate occasion to see how it affects you—how quickly it kicks in and whether it makes you sleepy. This can provide valuable insight into your personal response to the specific medication. Just a thought!

Wishing you lots of peace & serenity!

 

[athiestjoe]

Fantastic write-up! Hopefully this can not only inform but also spark a more civil and good faith discussion or debate over SI, instead of what occurred in a recent thread.

Thanks my friend! Figured it was worth making some sort of contribution here before I CTB as a way to give back to this amazing community like so many before me have done! I appreciate you so much. This was absolutley my honor to put together. (And ahem yeah regarding what you were mentioning at the end, hopefully this sets the record straight a bit). You are da bomb!

Fantastic post, I'm sure this took quite a while to write so props to you. Thank you for sharing this.

Definitely took some effort but was absolutley my joy and pleasure to do.

Thanks friends!!

 

[Intoxicated]

• Pain Avoidance: The anterior cingulate cortex (ACC) and the insular cortex process pain and emotional reactions. This area of the brain assesses the unpleasantness of pain, leading to rapid withdrawal from harmful stimuli. Associations with things that will bring known pain will send reactions in the brain to work overtime to avoid those situations.

Somehow this so called "science" behind SI misses the fact that primitive incentives like fear and pain sometimes work against survival.

In particular, a lot of people want to CTB because of suffering from chronic pain. Recently I saw a video with an injured Russian trooper putting a bullet through his own head from assault rifle - perhaps, he also wanted to get rid of his pain this way. This is how pain avoidance (which is a particular manifestation of survival instinct within your favorite concept) may lead to suicidal behavior. In other words, something that you call "survival instinct" may actually provoke suicides. Isn't this funny? ))

As it was said before, SI is a contrived and unnecessary abstraction. There are more appropriate terms for describing the drives that may work against the will to CTB, and adding SI on top of them doesn't give any valuable advantages. On the contrary, it's easy to notice that mentioning SI commonly results in rather vague/uncertain/uninformative statements. When someone says "my SI kicked in", it is unclear whether they were overcome by anxiety, or pain, or something else. It's like saying "my self-preservation mechanism kicked in" instead of "I vomited" that adds nothing but obscurity to the expressed thought.

 

[Melancholy Mittens]

Oh wow, this is so well put together and informative; I love this. Thank you for taking the time to do all this research and write this up for everyone It's very appreciated

 

[athiestjoe]

Somehow this so called "science" behind SI misses the fact that primitive incentives like fear and pain sometimes work against survival.

In particular, a lot of people want to CTB because of suffering from chronic pain. Recently I saw a video with an injured Russian trooper putting a bullet through his own head from assault rifle - perhaps, he also wanted to get rid of his pain this way. This is how pain avoidance (which is a particular manifestation of survival instinct within your favorite concept) may lead to suicidal behavior. In other words, something that you call "survival instinct" may actually provoke suicides. Isn't this funny? ))

As it was said before, SI is a contrived and unnecessary abstraction. There are more appropriate terms for describing the drives that may work against the will to CTB, and adding SI on top of them doesn't give any valuable advantages. On the contrary, it's easy to notice that mentioning SI commonly results in rather vague/uncertain/uninformative statements. When someone says "my SI kicked in", it is unclear whether they were overcome by anxiety, or pain, or something else. It's like saying "my self-preservation mechanism kicked in" instead of "I vomited" that adds nothing but obscurity to the expressed thought.

Thanks for echoing the broad comment I actually made about how SIs manifest differently in people based on life experiences and situations. You bring up a valid point about the SI and its connection to pain and I appreciate you sharing that perspective! But I'd like to share a different angle:

It's true that feelings of fear and pain can lead people to CTBing (absolutely does, duh!) , but it's also important to remember that these feelings are part of our survival mechanisms. For instance, when we experience pain, it's our body's way of signaling that something is wrong and prompting us to take action—whether that's seeking help or getting out of a dangerous situation. In that light, SI can actually serve as a protective mechanism, even if it feels a bit paradoxical at times. It is true, as I noted in my original post, that indeed tremendous suffering is one thing that by itself can override the innate drive for self preservation. Thanks for echoing that point I made!

As for calling SI vague, I get where you're coming from. Psychological and physiological responses are complex, and SI captures a lot of that. Sure, when someone says "my SI kicked in," it might sound unclear, but it opens up conversations about what's really happening—like the interplay of anxiety, pain, and stress. It's like trying to describe a wild mix of emotions; a broader term can help us navigate those experiences a bit better. I'm not going to diminish other members who use SI to describe their experiences, as that would be unfair and disrespectful. Everyone has their own unique perspective, and it's important to listen to those experiences. While it may seem vague to you, that's okay; the goal is to help reduce the stigma around it and provide a broader understanding of the underlying reasons that affect us as human beings. When we recognize how we are wired biologically, it can deepen our understanding of these concepts. The intention behind discussing SI is to move away from the "vague" aspects you mentioned and explain it through the lens of biology and other scientific frameworks. I never claimed this would reflect everyone's experience; it's simply an attempt to contribute to a conversation that hasn't been thoroughly explored. If you don't find this perspective helpful or relevant, you're absolutely free to set it aside! There's plenty of other content out there that might resonate more with you, and it's important to support each other rather than criticize individual posts.

Take the soldier you mentioned. His situation really highlights how chronic pain can weigh heavily on the mind and want to exit from that pain. Absolutely in line with what I discuss in my original post, in fact, that overwhelming pain can make people feel like ending their life is the best and help them to achieve their exit due to the pain. The two concepts are not mutually exclusive whatsoever. This doesn't diminish the importance of the general avoidance of pain that humans aim for as part of natural instincts. It also supports my discussion around the speed and specific methods potentially, might, have some impact on if SI kick in and firearms are by far leaps and bounds the fastest method. But I did not want to dive too much into that here since we also know from experiences that even with a swift method that does not definitivelymove the mark or negate SIs. Plenty of people have 'failed to pull the trigger' after all. Thanks for supporting my discussion point on this as well!

Plus, from a scientific standpoint, studies show that survival instincts are tied to our evolutionary biology. The brain's response to threats—triggering the fight-or-flight response—has been crucial for human survival for thousands of years (thanks, amygdala!). So while you might prefer more specific terms for certain feelings, the idea of SI helps paint a bigger picture of how our instincts drive us, that is what this post is ultimately mostly about. Sorry if that was not clear for somehow but I appreciate the feedback.

In the end, while this post about SI might not cover every individual experience perfectly, it hopefully is still be useful for understanding the messy reality of human behavior and motivation. Thanks again for sharing your perspective! It actually aligns quite well with the overarching concepts I discussed, so I don't see them as incompatible at all.

Hope you find everything you are looking for and get peace & serenity.

Oh wow, this is so well put together and informative; I love this. Thank you for taking the time to do all this research and write this up for everyone unlike the guy above me, I really appreciate it haha.

It was my absolute pleasure Dorito!! Wishing you nothing but the best in finding everything you are looking for and hope you get lots of peace & serenity!!

 

[Intoxicated]

but it's also important to remember that these feelings are part of our survival mechanisms.

Paying too much attention to the "survival" aspect may lead to overlooking ideas about exploiting some features of your brain based on how they actually work rather than on their biological purpose. What if you could hack your biological program to make it working for your advantage? In order to react on a threat, your brain has to recognize it as a threat first and then be focused on it. If you somehow convince yourself that the life itself is a threat and focus on this thought while CTB-ing, this can make the process much less stressful. This approach is basically similar to preparing yourself to a painful and/or dangerous medical intervention, where you focus on your belief that if you don't go through the procedure, your situation will be worse, that helps outweigh your anxiety and desire for pain avoidance in a short term.

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

If the death of a person is inevitable, for example due to a terminal illness or an imminent execution, SI has no evolutionary advantage. In such a situation a person goes through the stages of ignoring, fighting and finally accepting. Even people who are going to be executed look often calm and behave cooperative.

Another point is time. When I decided to kill myself, I was rational, considered the pros and cons and knew everything about my method and as much as possible about the state of being dead (in term of, is there an afterlife or not). This way, I minimised the fear from the unknow. I felt good and not a bit of fear. But the closer my planned death approaches the stronger became my fear of death and in the end, I am still here.

If there could be a point of no return during the time when I plan my death and the end is some weeks ahead, I could possibly outwit my SI. If my death is inevitable, I would calm down as described above. I could for example hire a hitman or commit a crime in order to be executed. The latter happened indeed often when death penalty was usual and people believed that they must go to hell for suicide. But frankly spoken, I see no feasible way to make this happen.

 

[Antinous]

Thank you, athiestjoe for a fantastic post. I found your article extremely helpful, rational, science-based, and enlightening. You put a huge amount of work into your post, and into your responses. I want to express my deep appreciation. I've been hanging around this forum since 2018 and your post is one of very best posts I've come across, ever.

 

[justpathetic]

I think this dovetails into 'is a planned or spontaneous ctb better/easier?' Discussion that could be had as well. Most people here say planned is better but SI is easier to over come for some when ctb isn't over thought.

 

[athiestjoe]

Thank you, athiestjoe for a fantastic post. I found your article extremely helpful, rational, science-based, and enlightening. You put a huge amount of work into your post, and into your responses. I want to express my deep appreciation. I've been hanging around this forum since 2018 and your post is one of very best posts I've come across, ever.

Wow, that's really kind of you to say. I thought the least I could do was share on a topic for everyone here—both now and for future folks—just like others have done for me on different topics. I really tried to be thoughtful while putting this together, so it means a lot to hear you found it helpful!

Thanks for taking time out of your day to comment!

 

[ShinyScissors]

This post aims to provide an educational/informational overview of the various scientific factors that contribute to survival instincts (SI), particularly the innate drive for self-preservation and the automatic responses that arise in the face of harm and danger. While it does not delve into every aspect of this complex topic, it focuses on the underlying biological, genetic, and psychological mechanisms that influence our instinctual behaviors. Survival instincts are deeply ingrained and operate at a subconscious level, driven by our DNA and evolutionary history. These automatic responses are not something individuals can easily shut off; they are fundamental to our biology and play a critical role in ensuring safety and survival.

It's completely natural to feel a bit worried about SI—they're a part of who we are, and it's hard to argue against their existence when we all know they're there. If you're curious, check out some of the discussions here to gain a deeper understanding of what survival instincts are like [1][2][3][4][5][6][7] (there are plenty of other posts too). It's one thing to read about it, but experiencing it firsthand can really open your eyes. There is absolutely no shame in having SI or being unable to follow through with CTB due to SI and so this post helps objectively look at why it is we have SI to help explain how these factors are working against us in our efforts to CTB. Contrary to what some might think, SI is not an invention of a mind that feels the need to have a "noble" cause for their failure or their "weakness" in an attempt to avoid shame. Nor does it lack usefulness as a concept, as it has its explanatory value within biology, evolution, and the nature of behavior for sentient beings. It is a very real thing, as we shall soon dive into further.

Generally, these instincts are encoded in our genetics and manifest through neurobiological processes. Key hormones like adrenaline and cortisol, along with neurotransmitters such as serotonin and dopamine, modulate responses to threats and facilitate behaviors that promote safety.

Despite reports of suicide, global statistics indicate that the vast majority of people do not attempt or succeed in CTB. For example, the World Health Organization reports that the global suicide rate is approximately 10.5 per 100,000 people, indicating that, overall, people generally prefer to live. Additionally, even in regions where medical assistance in dying is permitted, not all terminally ill patients choose death or ever use their 'death prescriptions', further illustrating the instinctual drive to live. This preference for life over death is deeply ingrained in our DNA and genetic code.

There's plenty of anecdotal evidence—real-life stories and experiences—that shed light on how strong this SI truly can be. You don't need this or any overly complex scientific explanation to see that it exists and shows up in different ways. Remember, science itself doesn't definitively prove or disprove anything; it's more about understanding the natural world through observation and evidence. So, when we draw conclusions from our own experiences or those of others, we're still engaging in a scientific process, even if it's not strictly lab-based. Of course, we need to be mindful of biases, which is crucial for any scientific inquiry. Which is why I am approaching it from a more objective level outside of stories. This is not going to discuss matters such as the role of things like generalized or major depressive disorders, PTSD, or too many psychological aspects as they pertain to SI, given that I think the majority of people can already reasonably make some conclusions about their role in either creating or reducing SI on an individual basis. Here we are going to look at more applicable factors ingrained in almost every human.

Does Everyone Experience SI the Same Way? Nope, not really! Everyone's survival instincts are shaped by their unique environments and experiences, even though there are biological factors at play for all of us. Factors such as upbringing, cultural background, and personal encounters with danger all influence how individuals perceive and react to threats. It's important to take this variability into account, as understanding that survival instincts can differ encourages thoughtful consideration rather than impulsive reactions. But, we are all subject to the general biological factors we are going to discuss.

Some SI Scientific Factors:

• Threat & Fear Responses: The amygdala plays a central role in detecting threats and triggering emotional responses. It communicates with the hypothalamus, activating the HPA axis for stress response. The ventromedial prefrontal cortex also contributes by modulating fear responses and decision-making under stress. The amygdala's activation is crucial for the rapid assessment of threat and initiation of appropriate responses, illustrating its vital role in what drives SI. Also, the thalamus relays sensory information to the amygdala before it reaches higher cortical areas, enabling rapid responses to perceived threats. This rapid pathway is vital for instinctual reactions. The amygdala plays a critical role in processing fear, helping to identify threats and triggering the hypothalamus's fight-or-flight response (discussed a little more below). "We really cannot underestimate the role of the ecology of fear, a completely natural response...
• Hippocampus & Learned Behavior: The hippocampus is crucial for forming new memories and learning from past experiences. It helps individuals recall previous threats and successes, guiding future self-preserving behaviors. The hippocampus plays a significant role in the consolidation of information from short-term to long-term memory.
• Fight or Flight: This instinct is part of our autonomic nervous system, meaning it operates without conscious control. The reason the body prefers self-preservation over harm is rooted in our evolutionary need to survive and reproduce. From a biological standpoint, living organisms are programmed to avoid death and maintain their existence. When faced with danger, the body prioritizes actions that reduce the risk of harm, focusing on escaping or overcoming the threat. When faced with danger, it triggers physiological changes to prepare the body to confront or escape from the threat. In moments of extreme stress, this response often takes precedence over self-destructive impulses, focusing energy on survival. The CRH (Corticotropin-Releasing Hormone) gene plays a critical role in this response by regulating the release of cortisol, a hormone that helps manage stress and response to perceived threats and stress inducing situations. These are autonomous reactions of the body trying to fight off the dangerous situation even when not awake and alert, the body is still working overtime to save itself and will find anyway it can to survive.
• Pain Avoidance: The anterior cingulate cortex (ACC) and the insular cortex process pain and emotional reactions. This area of the brain assesses the unpleasantness of pain, leading to rapid withdrawal from harmful stimuli. Associations with things that will bring known pain will send reactions in the brain to work overtime to avoid those situations.
• Homeostasis: This self-regulating process involves sensors throughout the body measuring various factors and sending information to the brain. The brain then works to maintain stability and balance, which includes responses toward SI. Homeostasis is essential for survival, allowing organisms to adapt to changes in their environment.
• Social Connection: The medial prefrontal cortex (mPFC) is involved in understanding social dynamics. It helps individuals navigate social threats and rewards, fostering connections that enhance survival through social support. Genetic influences, such as the OXT (Oxytocin Gene), play a role in promoting prosocial behaviors crucial for group survival. This leads to a natural push for humans to continue surviving by any means necessary.
• Cognitive Evaluation: The dorsolateral prefrontal cortex is key for higher cognitive functions like reasoning and decision-making. It assesses risks and benefits in complex situations, guiding behaviors toward self-preservation.
• Genetic Factors: Genetic influences affect neurotransmitter systems, particularly those involving serotonin and dopamine, which modulate mood and fear responses. Specific genes such as COMT (Catechol-O-Methyltransferase), BDNF (Brain-derived neurotrophic factor), NR3C1 (glucocorticoid receptor gene), and SLC6A4 (Serotonin Transporter Gene) are implicated in how individuals respond to stress and emotional stimuli. These will play a role in SI due to release of chemicals in the brain we do not have any direct, easy, reliable way to offset on our own.

From an anthropological perspective, humans have evolved in social groups where cooperation and social bonding enhance survival chances. This communal aspect is reinforced through the release of neurochemicals like oxytocin, which promotes trust and bonding, thereby increasing the likelihood of cooperative behaviors crucial for survival.

All of these factors, but is not exhaustive by any means, are all well founded scientific understandings that can play into SI.

Methods for Overcoming SI: There are some things that influence the perception of threats, help reduce anxiety and stress, dull or lessen fear-based reactions all of which can be factors into SI. There is no truly effective way to fully numb or dull SI given (as you have learned) how ingrained into our very human fabric they are, although the below are some commonly discussed methods discussed in overcoming SI which we will evaluate the efficacy of:

• Medication: Certain medications can reduce anxiety/stress, increase apathy and reduce cognitive function, particularly useful for CTB are benzodiazepines. Other medications (such as antipsychotics, allergy medications) may cause some sedation in some but are largely ineffective for CTB or overcoming self preservation instincts. Benzos, however, enhance the effect of the neurotransmitter gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA), which has inhibitory effects on brain activity. Here's how they might reduce survival instinct or self-preservation responses through (1) anxiety reduction, (2) sedation, (3) cognitive function reduction and (4) emotional blunting. Medications such as lorazepam, alprazolam, diazepam and clonazepam (all benzos) are pretty quick acting and generally well tolerated in most people. There is always a risk they could cause someone to pass out if too many are taken without any tolerance or worse make errors in more technical CTB methods. Mild to moderate dosing in people who can tolerate benzos are likely one of the best methods to ease some SI and help take the anxiety edge off just enough. No one needs to overdo the dosing unless it is part of a specific protocol to take a particularly large dose. Would suggest benzos in proper dosing to help with anxiety, reduce fear response, and cause a smoother CTB experience overall.
• Alcohol: Alcohol enhances the activity of gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA), the primary inhibitory neurotransmitter in the brain and increases dopamine release in the brain's reward pathways, which can create feelings of euphoria and reduce negative emotional states, including anxiety. Alcohol can dampen fear responses and may provide temporary relief from anxiety, however like with benzos they can impact motor skills, and deteriorate one's general perception of the situation which can lead to some mistakes happening. Mild or moderate use in someone who can tolerate alcohol is likely OK (for most). Do not go overboard getting wasted drunk, and then attempt CTB, as the chances of error get substantially higher the drunker someone gets. No need to overdo alcohol. Some protocols encourage (while others explicitly discourage) alcohol consumption so always research before using. Would suggest in light dosing depending on method to help take the edge off (relaxation alone is not enough to overcome SI, but it may help).
• Marijuana: The active compounds in marijuana (particularly THC) affect the endocannabinoid system, modulating anxiety and fear. Many users report that marijuana alleviates anxiety and fear, which might temporarily reduce the acute stress response that is critical for self-preservation (not for everyone though!) but can also lead to paranoia, which may exacerbate SIs and heighten feelings of threat for some. Would not suggest someone who has never used marijuana to try this given individual response varies, and like benzos and alcohol, can create mobility, dexterity and perception issues, though usually not nearly to the same degree. Others may have a significant tolerance due to routine use; you will know your experience and your reaction the best. While some also believe marijuana could be helpful for anti-nausea properties and also for anxiety purposes, it reacts too differently in each person for it to be considered a reliable addition in a general way. If you have used marijuana in the past and found it enjoyable, then it is not likely to greatly do any harm unless overdone. Neutral, neither suggest nor not suggest.
• Ketamine: Ketamine blocks NMDA receptors, disrupting glutamate signaling and altering dopamine and serotonin levels. This leads to dissociation, reduced pain perception, and mood changes like euphoria. It also reduces fear and anxiety by dampening the amygdala's activity, which processes fear which contributes to self-preservation (thus a positive for CTB). However, ketamine can impair decision-making and induce detachment from reality, causing hallucinations and time distortions. Doses of ~0.2 and 0.5 mg/kg can be experimented with on a separate occasion, not right before a CTB, to see how it affects you individually and if produces the desired affect and whether or not it hinders your dexterity or spatial awareness too much. Higher doses (1 mg/kg or more) can lead to the intense dissociative state known as a "K-hole," and may lead to much higher risk of mistakes due to lack of perception. Since everyone will differ based on tolerance, general mental health, and other factors, it should be experimented with before deciding to use. Neutral, neither suggest nor not suggest.
• Psychedelics: Substances like psilocybin should likely be avoided as they may also induce anxiety or paranoia in some individuals, especially in uncontrolled environments. The effects can vary widely depending on individual circumstances and also lead to a huge risk of messing up and potentially even injuring others (depending on the method). Would not suggest.
• Cognitive Reappraisal: This is perhaps the most (along with Meditation) out of the box concept because it is far more abstract. By familiarizing yourself with your method, about death, the process of dying, seeking as much knowledge about it as possible, will all surely help. I am intentionally not linking items here as you can do outside research and I do not want to expose anyone to content they may not be ready to see and explore. And yes, it is outstandingly true that mental preparation does not alone overcome SI. However, understanding death and the dying process of one's method can reduce the fear around it, which as we already discussed at length is a contributor to various of the responses in the brain when fear, perceived threats are present, etc., thus reducing the fear around death, your method, and complication possibilities of your method would be a good thing. All will help to reduce the stimuli responses relating to fear. This cognitive reappraisal involves reframing a potentially threatening situation by viewing it in a more positive or less threatening light. By understanding the facts, individuals can reinterpret the situation, reducing fear responses. Knowledge can act as a buffer against fear by providing context and clarity about a situation. When individuals understand what they are afraid of, they are less likely to overestimate the threat. This also leads to desensitization (familiarity with a fear-inducing stimulus through education can lead to desensitization, where repeated exposure to the information reduces the emotional response over time), by learning facts, individuals can reduce this uncertainty, which in turn lessens their fear response and engaging in rational thinking and critical analysis of information can counteract emotional responses to fear, promoting a more measured reaction to what we auto-pilot away from when exposed to fear-inducing stimuli. These psychological mechanisms illustrate how knowledge and understanding can help mitigate fear responses, making it easier for individuals to cope with potentially threatening stimuli. Perhaps even just by reading this you have already begun initial steps on cognitive reappraisal! I (maybe surprisingly to some) do suggest this method, as a well thought and educated decision may not alone overcome SI, but it is undoubtedly more beneficial than harmful.
• Meditation and Mindfulness: Mastery of meditation practices theoretically could help (another out of the box approach). Neuroscientific studies show that mindfulness can decrease amygdala activation through resting state functional connectivity (rsFC) which may play a role in overcoming SI. However, this is an outstandingly difficult, but not impossible, method; although some instances, such as the mastery of a Buddhist monk, are likely not achievable for the average, or even above average, person. If you like and want to meditate, go for it, just don't count on it really helping. Would not suggest as effective but no harm to it.

If SI is Real then How do People CTB? Obviously, given there are many successes, SI can and is overcome by plenty of people or merely ignored altogether through and overwhelming self-determination. And not everyone has as strong SI as others, some people simply also just have lessened SI due to life experiences. The specific method one chooses also comes into play. For example, the less time there is for a specific method to take effect (either by facilitating unconsciousness, significantly reduced awareness, or death), the less likely the person will have their SI take over or call for help out of panic – e.g. if someone needs to jump off a bridge there is more time for a fear response to kick in from the ledge, more time to back out of a noose for hanging, whereas there is far less time in pulling a trigger of a gun (although plenty of people fail to pull a trigger). And things like SN may create enough anxiety in the time it takes to kick in that people have reported calling for medical help, while others have successful done it. It does vary quite a bit, but generally the quicker and greater the ease of initiation in a given method lends less time for SI to activate. However, I am not suggesting people just pick a "fast" method to overcome SI, CTB should be well thought out and planned and not an impulse anyways. There is also a big difference in understanding what SI is and actually experiencing it moments before attempting. Again, there is no shame in if your SI takes over. Each person is going to be a bit different, and while the vast majority of people have a strong drive for self-preservation, various psychological factors can lead that reduction such as overall mental health, trauma, extreme hopelessness overriding the SI, and also utter determination cannot be underestimated.

Neuroscientific research indicates that certain brain regions, including the prefrontal cortex and amygdala, are involved in decision-making and emotional regulation (we discussed these earlier). Dysregulation in these areas can contribute to a shift of perception and judgment regarding life and death.

For some, the overwhelming nature of their suffering is also very sufficient for overcoming the SI without any sort of method to dull or reduce it. There is absolutely no shame in having SI and being unable to carry through, and it may be a sign that you need more time to think about the decision, which everyone here absolutely understands. However, it is important to realize the reasons SI exists and not feel you aren't capable or "strong willed" enough, but rather just have an innate human drive towards self-preservation that is out of your control.

The science around SI reveals a complex interplay of genetics, biological, evolutionary, neurological, and psychological factors that drive humans to protect itself against harm, stress, responses to danger, and general instinct to survive. Of course, there are going to be highly personalized variables at play but this post is just exploring some of them from an informational standpoint to help explain what we all already knew on a general level: SI can be challenging to overcome, there are ways to ease it, and that everybody's are a little bit different. Now, though, we have a little bit more knowledge and informational basis as to some of things that really drive SI on a more detailed level.

I wish you all the best of luck in whatever you decide and hope you find peace & serenity!

This helped alleviate the guilt weighed heavy on me. I'm intrigued by your mature nature and intellect. Execution was flawless, I wish I'd run into more people like you in person because I'd never get bored again

 

[52yoandmiserable]

This post aims to provide an educational/informational overview of the various scientific factors that contribute to survival instincts (SI), particularly the innate drive for self-preservation and the automatic responses that arise in the face of harm and danger. While it does not delve into every aspect of this complex topic, it focuses on the underlying biological, genetic, and psychological mechanisms that influence our instinctual behaviors. Survival instincts are deeply ingrained and operate at a subconscious level, driven by our DNA and evolutionary history. These automatic responses are not something individuals can easily shut off; they are fundamental to our biology and play a critical role in ensuring safety and survival.

It's completely natural to feel a bit worried about SI—they're a part of who we are, and it's hard to argue against their existence when we all know they're there. If you're curious, check out some of the discussions here to gain a deeper understanding of what survival instincts are like [1][2][3][4][5][6][7] (there are plenty of other posts too). It's one thing to read about it, but experiencing it firsthand can really open your eyes. There is absolutely no shame in having SI or being unable to follow through with CTB due to SI and so this post helps objectively look at why it is we have SI to help explain how these factors are working against us in our efforts to CTB. Contrary to what some might think, SI is not an invention of a mind that feels the need to have a "noble" cause for their failure or their "weakness" in an attempt to avoid shame. Nor does it lack usefulness as a concept, as it has its explanatory value within biology, evolution, and the nature of behavior for sentient beings. It is a very real thing, as we shall soon dive into further.

Generally, these instincts are encoded in our genetics and manifest through neurobiological processes. Key hormones like adrenaline and cortisol, along with neurotransmitters such as serotonin and dopamine, modulate responses to threats and facilitate behaviors that promote safety.

Despite reports of suicide, global statistics indicate that the vast majority of people do not attempt or succeed in CTB. For example, the World Health Organization reports that the global suicide rate is approximately 10.5 per 100,000 people, indicating that, overall, people generally prefer to live. Additionally, even in regions where medical assistance in dying is permitted, not all terminally ill patients choose death or ever use their 'death prescriptions', further illustrating the instinctual drive to live. This preference for life over death is deeply ingrained in our DNA and genetic code.

There's plenty of anecdotal evidence—real-life stories and experiences—that shed light on how strong this SI truly can be. You don't need this or any overly complex scientific explanation to see that it exists and shows up in different ways. Remember, science itself doesn't definitively prove or disprove anything; it's more about understanding the natural world through observation and evidence. So, when we draw conclusions from our own experiences or those of others, we're still engaging in a scientific process, even if it's not strictly lab-based. Of course, we need to be mindful of biases, which is crucial for any scientific inquiry. Which is why I am approaching it from a more objective level outside of stories. This is not going to discuss matters such as the role of things like generalized or major depressive disorders, PTSD, or too many psychological aspects as they pertain to SI, given that I think the majority of people can already reasonably make some conclusions about their role in either creating or reducing SI on an individual basis. Here we are going to look at more applicable factors ingrained in almost every human.

Does Everyone Experience SI the Same Way? Nope, not really! Everyone's survival instincts are shaped by their unique environments and experiences, even though there are biological factors at play for all of us. Factors such as upbringing, cultural background, and personal encounters with danger all influence how individuals perceive and react to threats. It's important to take this variability into account, as understanding that survival instincts can differ encourages thoughtful consideration rather than impulsive reactions. But, we are all subject to the general biological factors we are going to discuss.

Some SI Scientific Factors:

• Threat & Fear Responses: The amygdala plays a central role in detecting threats and triggering emotional responses. It communicates with the hypothalamus, activating the HPA axis for stress response. The ventromedial prefrontal cortex also contributes by modulating fear responses and decision-making under stress. The amygdala's activation is crucial for the rapid assessment of threat and initiation of appropriate responses, illustrating its vital role in what drives SI. Also, the thalamus relays sensory information to the amygdala before it reaches higher cortical areas, enabling rapid responses to perceived threats. This rapid pathway is vital for instinctual reactions. The amygdala plays a critical role in processing fear, helping to identify threats and triggering the hypothalamus's fight-or-flight response (discussed a little more below). "We really cannot underestimate the role of the ecology of fear, a completely natural response...
• Hippocampus & Learned Behavior: The hippocampus is crucial for forming new memories and learning from past experiences. It helps individuals recall previous threats and successes, guiding future self-preserving behaviors. The hippocampus plays a significant role in the consolidation of information from short-term to long-term memory.
• Fight or Flight: This instinct is part of our autonomic nervous system, meaning it operates without conscious control. The reason the body prefers self-preservation over harm is rooted in our evolutionary need to survive and reproduce. From a biological standpoint, living organisms are programmed to avoid death and maintain their existence. When faced with danger, the body prioritizes actions that reduce the risk of harm, focusing on escaping or overcoming the threat. When faced with danger, it triggers physiological changes to prepare the body to confront or escape from the threat. In moments of extreme stress, this response often takes precedence over self-destructive impulses, focusing energy on survival. The CRH (Corticotropin-Releasing Hormone) gene plays a critical role in this response by regulating the release of cortisol, a hormone that helps manage stress and response to perceived threats and stress inducing situations. These are autonomous reactions of the body trying to fight off the dangerous situation even when not awake and alert, the body is still working overtime to save itself and will find anyway it can to survive.
• Pain Avoidance: The anterior cingulate cortex (ACC) and the insular cortex process pain and emotional reactions. This area of the brain assesses the unpleasantness of pain, leading to rapid withdrawal from harmful stimuli. Associations with things that will bring known pain will send reactions in the brain to work overtime to avoid those situations.
• Homeostasis: This self-regulating process involves sensors throughout the body measuring various factors and sending information to the brain. The brain then works to maintain stability and balance, which includes responses toward SI. Homeostasis is essential for survival, allowing organisms to adapt to changes in their environment.
• Social Connection: The medial prefrontal cortex (mPFC) is involved in understanding social dynamics. It helps individuals navigate social threats and rewards, fostering connections that enhance survival through social support. Genetic influences, such as the OXT (Oxytocin Gene), play a role in promoting prosocial behaviors crucial for group survival. This leads to a natural push for humans to continue surviving by any means necessary.
• Cognitive Evaluation: The dorsolateral prefrontal cortex is key for higher cognitive functions like reasoning and decision-making. It assesses risks and benefits in complex situations, guiding behaviors toward self-preservation.
• Genetic Factors: Genetic influences affect neurotransmitter systems, particularly those involving serotonin and dopamine, which modulate mood and fear responses. Specific genes such as COMT (Catechol-O-Methyltransferase), BDNF (Brain-derived neurotrophic factor), NR3C1 (glucocorticoid receptor gene), and SLC6A4 (Serotonin Transporter Gene) are implicated in how individuals respond to stress and emotional stimuli. These will play a role in SI due to release of chemicals in the brain we do not have any direct, easy, reliable way to offset on our own.

From an anthropological perspective, humans have evolved in social groups where cooperation and social bonding enhance survival chances. This communal aspect is reinforced through the release of neurochemicals like oxytocin, which promotes trust and bonding, thereby increasing the likelihood of cooperative behaviors crucial for survival.

All of these factors, but is not exhaustive by any means, are all well founded scientific understandings that can play into SI.

Methods for Overcoming SI: There are some things that influence the perception of threats, help reduce anxiety and stress, dull or lessen fear-based reactions all of which can be factors into SI. There is no truly effective way to fully numb or dull SI given (as you have learned) how ingrained into our very human fabric they are, although the below are some commonly discussed methods discussed in overcoming SI which we will evaluate the efficacy of:

• Medication: Certain medications can reduce anxiety/stress, increase apathy and reduce cognitive function, particularly useful for CTB are benzodiazepines. Other medications (such as antipsychotics, allergy medications) may cause some sedation in some but are largely ineffective for CTB or overcoming self preservation instincts. Benzos, however, enhance the effect of the neurotransmitter gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA), which has inhibitory effects on brain activity. Here's how they might reduce survival instinct or self-preservation responses through (1) anxiety reduction, (2) sedation, (3) cognitive function reduction and (4) emotional blunting. Medications such as lorazepam, alprazolam, diazepam and clonazepam (all benzos) are pretty quick acting and generally well tolerated in most people. There is always a risk they could cause someone to pass out if too many are taken without any tolerance or worse make errors in more technical CTB methods. Mild to moderate dosing in people who can tolerate benzos are likely one of the best methods to ease some SI and help take the anxiety edge off just enough. No one needs to overdo the dosing unless it is part of a specific protocol to take a particularly large dose. Would suggest benzos in proper dosing to help with anxiety, reduce fear response, and cause a smoother CTB experience overall.
• Alcohol: Alcohol enhances the activity of gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA), the primary inhibitory neurotransmitter in the brain and increases dopamine release in the brain's reward pathways, which can create feelings of euphoria and reduce negative emotional states, including anxiety. Alcohol can dampen fear responses and may provide temporary relief from anxiety, however like with benzos they can impact motor skills, and deteriorate one's general perception of the situation which can lead to some mistakes happening. Mild or moderate use in someone who can tolerate alcohol is likely OK (for most). Do not go overboard getting wasted drunk, and then attempt CTB, as the chances of error get substantially higher the drunker someone gets. No need to overdo alcohol. Some protocols encourage (while others explicitly discourage) alcohol consumption so always research before using. Would suggest in light dosing depending on method to help take the edge off (relaxation alone is not enough to overcome SI, but it may help).
• Marijuana: The active compounds in marijuana (particularly THC) affect the endocannabinoid system, modulating anxiety and fear. Many users report that marijuana alleviates anxiety and fear, which might temporarily reduce the acute stress response that is critical for self-preservation (not for everyone though!) but can also lead to paranoia, which may exacerbate SIs and heighten feelings of threat for some. Would not suggest someone who has never used marijuana to try this given individual response varies, and like benzos and alcohol, can create mobility, dexterity and perception issues, though usually not nearly to the same degree. Others may have a significant tolerance due to routine use; you will know your experience and your reaction the best. While some also believe marijuana could be helpful for anti-nausea properties and also for anxiety purposes, it reacts too differently in each person for it to be considered a reliable addition in a general way. If you have used marijuana in the past and found it enjoyable, then it is not likely to greatly do any harm unless overdone. Neutral, neither suggest nor not suggest.
• Ketamine: Ketamine blocks NMDA receptors, disrupting glutamate signaling and altering dopamine and serotonin levels. This leads to dissociation, reduced pain perception, and mood changes like euphoria. It also reduces fear and anxiety by dampening the amygdala's activity, which processes fear which contributes to self-preservation (thus a positive for CTB). However, ketamine can impair decision-making and induce detachment from reality, causing hallucinations and time distortions. Doses of ~0.2 and 0.5 mg/kg can be experimented with on a separate occasion, not right before a CTB, to see how it affects you individually and if produces the desired affect and whether or not it hinders your dexterity or spatial awareness too much. Higher doses (1 mg/kg or more) can lead to the intense dissociative state known as a "K-hole," and may lead to much higher risk of mistakes due to lack of perception. Since everyone will differ based on tolerance, general mental health, and other factors, it should be experimented with before deciding to use. Neutral, neither suggest nor not suggest.
• Psychedelics: Substances like psilocybin should likely be avoided as they may also induce anxiety or paranoia in some individuals, especially in uncontrolled environments. The effects can vary widely depending on individual circumstances and also lead to a huge risk of messing up and potentially even injuring others (depending on the method). Would not suggest.
• Cognitive Reappraisal: This is perhaps the most (along with Meditation) out of the box concept because it is far more abstract. By familiarizing yourself with your method, about death, the process of dying, seeking as much knowledge about it as possible, will all surely help. I am intentionally not linking items here as you can do outside research and I do not want to expose anyone to content they may not be ready to see and explore. And yes, it is outstandingly true that mental preparation does not alone overcome SI. However, understanding death and the dying process of one's method can reduce the fear around it, which as we already discussed at length is a contributor to various of the responses in the brain when fear, perceived threats are present, etc., thus reducing the fear around death, your method, and complication possibilities of your method would be a good thing. All will help to reduce the stimuli responses relating to fear. This cognitive reappraisal involves reframing a potentially threatening situation by viewing it in a more positive or less threatening light. By understanding the facts, individuals can reinterpret the situation, reducing fear responses. Knowledge can act as a buffer against fear by providing context and clarity about a situation. When individuals understand what they are afraid of, they are less likely to overestimate the threat. This also leads to desensitization (familiarity with a fear-inducing stimulus through education can lead to desensitization, where repeated exposure to the information reduces the emotional response over time), by learning facts, individuals can reduce this uncertainty, which in turn lessens their fear response and engaging in rational thinking and critical analysis of information can counteract emotional responses to fear, promoting a more measured reaction to what we auto-pilot away from when exposed to fear-inducing stimuli. These psychological mechanisms illustrate how knowledge and understanding can help mitigate fear responses, making it easier for individuals to cope with potentially threatening stimuli. Perhaps even just by reading this you have already begun initial steps on cognitive reappraisal! I (maybe surprisingly to some) do suggest this method, as a well thought and educated decision may not alone overcome SI, but it is undoubtedly more beneficial than harmful.
• Meditation and Mindfulness: Mastery of meditation practices theoretically could help (another out of the box approach). Neuroscientific studies show that mindfulness can decrease amygdala activation through resting state functional connectivity (rsFC) which may play a role in overcoming SI. However, this is an outstandingly difficult, but not impossible, method; although some instances, such as the mastery of a Buddhist monk, are likely not achievable for the average, or even above average, person. If you like and want to meditate, go for it, just don't count on it really helping. Would not suggest as effective but no harm to it.

If SI is Real then How do People CTB? Obviously, given there are many successes, SI can and is overcome by plenty of people or merely ignored altogether through and overwhelming self-determination. And not everyone has as strong SI as others, some people simply also just have lessened SI due to life experiences. The specific method one chooses also comes into play. For example, the less time there is for a specific method to take effect (either by facilitating unconsciousness, significantly reduced awareness, or death), the less likely the person will have their SI take over or call for help out of panic – e.g. if someone needs to jump off a bridge there is more time for a fear response to kick in from the ledge, more time to back out of a noose for hanging, whereas there is far less time in pulling a trigger of a gun (although plenty of people fail to pull a trigger). And things like SN may create enough anxiety in the time it takes to kick in that people have reported calling for medical help, while others have successful done it. It does vary quite a bit, but generally the quicker and greater the ease of initiation in a given method lends less time for SI to activate. However, I am not suggesting people just pick a "fast" method to overcome SI, CTB should be well thought out and planned and not an impulse anyways. There is also a big difference in understanding what SI is and actually experiencing it moments before attempting. Again, there is no shame in if your SI takes over. Each person is going to be a bit different, and while the vast majority of people have a strong drive for self-preservation, various psychological factors can lead that reduction such as overall mental health, trauma, extreme hopelessness overriding the SI, and also utter determination cannot be underestimated.

Neuroscientific research indicates that certain brain regions, including the prefrontal cortex and amygdala, are involved in decision-making and emotional regulation (we discussed these earlier). Dysregulation in these areas can contribute to a shift of perception and judgment regarding life and death.

For some, the overwhelming nature of their suffering is also very sufficient for overcoming the SI without any sort of method to dull or reduce it. There is absolutely no shame in having SI and being unable to carry through, and it may be a sign that you need more time to think about the decision, which everyone here absolutely understands. However, it is important to realize the reasons SI exists and not feel you aren't capable or "strong willed" enough, but rather just have an innate human drive towards self-preservation that is out of your control.

The science around SI reveals a complex interplay of genetics, biological, evolutionary, neurological, and psychological factors that drive humans to protect itself against harm, stress, responses to danger, and general instinct to survive. Of course, there are going to be highly personalized variables at play but this post is just exploring some of them from an informational standpoint to help explain what we all already knew on a general level: SI can be challenging to overcome, there are ways to ease it, and that everybody's are a little bit different. Now, though, we have a little bit more knowledge and informational basis as to some of things that really drive SI on a more detailed level.

I wish you all the best of luck in whatever you decide and hope you find peace & serenity!

I am already taking 120 mg of ketamine sublingual every night. I have access to as .much THC as I want. (However any amount over 50 my makes me toss my cookies.) I also have 20 grams of some very old (5+ years) of clonazepam. I am considering using some of these substances after lighting my charcoal and waiting for it to turn gray.
As a large man (290lbs), a frequent user of ketamine, a relatively new user of clonazepam (2mgs each night to help me sleep) and the very infrequent use of THC, would you be willing to advise me on what to do or what NOT to do?
I only wish to use those substances to better my odds at defeating my SI. My plan is burning charcoal in my car. I don't want fear to foil my plans.
Any advice is greatly appreciated!

 

[SufferingNSilence]

This is VERY INFORMATIVE!! Thanx SO MUCH for sharing!! ...as I'm so glad I just ran across this=!

 

[Valhala]

One of the best posts I've read on SaSu, congratulations, you covered the topic in great detail.

 

[Valhala]

Somehow this so called "science" behind SI misses the fact that primitive incentives like fear and pain sometimes work against survival.

In particular, a lot of people want to CTB because of suffering from chronic pain. Recently I saw a video with an injured Russian trooper putting a bullet through his own head from assault rifle - perhaps, he also wanted to get rid of his pain this way. This is how pain avoidance (which is a particular manifestation of survival instinct within your favorite concept) may lead to suicidal behavior. In other words, something that you call "survival instinct" may actually provoke suicides. Isn't this funny? ))

As it was said before, SI is a contrived and unnecessary abstraction. There are more appropriate terms for describing the drives that may work against the will to CTB, and adding SI on top of them doesn't give any valuable advantages. On the contrary, it's easy to notice that mentioning SI commonly results in rather vague/uncertain/uninformative statements. When someone says "my SI kicked in", it is unclear whether they were overcome by anxiety, or pain, or something else. It's like saying "my self-preservation mechanism kicked in" instead of "I vomited" that adds nothing but obscurity to the expressed thought.

If you carefully read the post, you could determine that the hypothetical situation you mention is included in it. Strong physical pain can be a factor that nullifies (reduces) SI just as the fear of potential upcoming pain during CTB can be a factor that, on the contrary, be and strengthen the SI. There is really nothing illogical in this and I don't understand how you think this is an argument that calls into question the existence or operation of the SI?!?

 

[Intoxicated]

If you carefully read the post, you could determine that the hypothetical situation you mention is included in it. Strong physical pain can be a factor that nullifies (reduces) SI just as the fear of potential upcoming pain during CTB can be a factor that, on the contrary, be and strengthen the SI. There is really nothing illogical in this and I don't understand how you think this is an argument that calls into question the existence or operation of the SI?!?

In such interpretation, survival instinct would be a purely imaginary construct like god's power. Unlike fear and pain which are directly perceivable and distinguishable things that can obviously have a significant influence on decision making, the presence of an instinct as a distinctive entity responsible for survivorship is a product of fantasies about how things work. And conclusions made out of these fantasies can be rather naive.

 

[Valhala]

In such interpretation, survival instinct would be a purely imaginary construct like god's power. Unlike fear and pain which are directly perceivable and distinguishable things that can obviously have a significant influence on decision making, the presence of an instinct as a distinctive entity responsible for survivorship is a product of fantasies about how things work. And conclusions made out of these fantasies can be rather naive.

If you analyze and observe partially, it is exactly like that, but all those individual instincts act quite coherently in that, as you say, "construction" SI (or the instinct for survival). SI, or the instinct to maintain life is a complex discourse made up of several different instincts that are coded in the human genome and make life sustainable and possible. Everything that surrounds us is a set of different constructs that, due to certain similarities, we have classified into certain groups and called the most different names, whether they are in Analogously, they could claim that everything around us is a mere set of atomic and subatomic particles (which is of course true), which further implies that every name of a thing or phenomenon is just a construct made up of these basic units.

 

[Intoxicated]

SI, or the instinct to maintain life is a complex discourse made up of several different instincts that are coded in the human genome and make life sustainable and possible.

Likewise, I could say that cars can move because of "car power". A car with a strong "car power" moves fast, a car with a weak "car power" moves slowly and a car with no "car power" can't move at all. What a nice "scientific" explanation of the differences between car speeds? )) Of course, there are more complex things going under the hood, but who cares? People could daily vent about their cars not working due to missing "car power" and hear supportive words from friends or other people whose cars aren't working too.

 

[Valhala]

Likewise, I could say that cars can move because of "car power". A car with a strong "car power" moves fast, a car with a weak "car power" moves slowly and a car with no "car power" can't move at all. What a nice "scientific" explanation of the differences between car speeds? )) Of course, there are more complex things going under the hood, but who cares? People could daily vent about their cars not working due to missing "car power" and hear supportive words from friends or other people whose cars aren't working too.

Actually, the power of the car is, along with some other parameters, the basis of the car's movement. However, in order to avoid possible doubts about the potential practical effect of the specific vehicle's movement (which also depends on a number of other parameters, such as the vehicle's aerodynamics, weight, tires, power transmission to the wheels, gearbox, fuel, etc.) always talk about the power of the engine and not the power of the vehicle itself.

 

[notreallybored]

ב''ה,
Imagine the military applications a cure for survival instincts would have. Units could literally function like anthills in "noble" sacrifice to their "queen."