Discussion Socialism is dangerous

[Pessimist]

Socialism is basically the left-wing version of fascism. Some genocides, such as the Cambodian genocide and the Holodomor (millions of victims each), were perpetrated by far-left communist regimes. Atrocities have been committed in the name of achieving socialism. China, a one-party communist state, is an emerging superpower. It proves that communism and socialism still pose a threat to democracy.

 

[obligatoryshackles]

Nations that underwent revolution and came out of the most destructive conflicts in human history that took place largely on their agricultural lands couldn't feed their people afterwards? Wow, it must be the fault of the regime's ideology!

 

[Pessimist]

Nations that underwent revolution and came out of the most destructive conflicts in human history that took place largely on their agricultural lands couldn't feed their people afterwards? Wow, it must be the fault of the regime's ideology!

What revolution do you like? Maybe the murderous Cultural Revolution in communist China?

 

[obligatoryshackles]

What revolution do you like? Maybe the murderous Cultural Revolution in communist China?

Irrelevant. Every revolution in history has been bloody and destructive and most end badly due to the way leadership structures are determined during such chaotic times.

That is to say, if Russia or China had been capitalist coming out of their revolutions, they still would have had largely the same problems.

 

[Pessimist]

Irrelevant. Every revolution in history has been bloody and destructive and most end badly due to the way leadership structures are determined during such chaotic times.

That is to say, if Russia or China had been capitalist coming out of their revolutions, they still would have had largely the same problems.

Maybe the Holocaust wasn't the fault of the regime's ideology either.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

I'm a socialist right in the heart of the good ole usa. I believe that the ownership of all businesses needs to be immediately transferred to the employees of said businesses, so that the wealth the business creates goes to the actual people who create that wealth, and not just a greedy, few-person, board-of-directors and a bunch of invisible investors. What's dangerous about spreading the wealth amongst those who actually create it, so that everyone can benefit from the work that goes into creating it, instead of just the elite few? It's quite clear that the current capitalistic model is a failure, as the divide between the haves and the have-nots grows wider by the day, and will continue to do so until capitalism is replaced by a system that actually puts people first.

Capitalism is the disease.
Socialism is the cure.

 

[obligatoryshackles]

Maybe the Holocaust wasn't the fault of the regime's ideology either.

Yeah, Hitler would've probably done the holocaust regardless of if he was a socialist or a capitalist. Correct.

 

[Pessimist]

Yeah, Hitler would've probably done the holocaust regardless of if he was a socialist or a capitalist. Correct.

Maybe the Holocaust isn't related to the Nazi ideology.

 

[obligatoryshackles]

Maybe the Holocaust isn't related to the Nazi ideology.

???

What the fuck would the connection of antisemitism and Nazi economic policy be exactly?

 

[Pessimist]

???

What the fuck would the connection of antisemitism and Nazi economic policy be exactly?

Communism is a depraved ideology advocating for revolution and bloodshed. This ideology is responsible for countless genocides and totalitarian regimes. You can't seperate the two, just like you can't seperate Nazism from the Holocaust.

 

[obligatoryshackles]

Communism is a depraved ideology advocating for revolution and bloodshed. This ideology is responsible for countless genocides and totalitarian regimes. You can't seperate the two, just like you can't seperate Nazism from the Holocaust.

You're right, because every other ideology hasn't also been responsible for countless genocides and totalitarian regimes. Whether the Nazis had a free market economy or a socialist economy has very little connection to their antisemitic war crimes, at best an afterthought of how they would run their government after they got done with their genocide project.

 

[Pessimist]

You're right, because every other ideology hasn't also been responsible for countless genocides and totalitarian regimes. Whether the Nazis had a free market economy or a socialist economy has very little connection to their antisemitic war crimes, at best an afterthought of how they would run their government after they got done with their genocide project.

It sounds like you refuse to understand. Communism is the far-left version of Nazism.

 

[obligatoryshackles]

Why are we even arguing about Nazis? Antisemitic genocide and failed agricultural policy are not comparable.

 

[Pessimist]

Why are we even arguing about Nazis? Antisemitic genocide and failed agricultural policy are not comparable.

Both Nazism and communism are extremely authoritarian and depraved in nature.

 

[obligatoryshackles]

Both Nazism and communism are extremely authoritarian and depraved in nature.

Right, and American capitalism isn't depraved in nature. I love our free and democratic elections where we can choose either corporate interest group #1 or corporate interest group #2.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

far-left communist regimes.

No country has met the actual definition of communism yet (at least from what I know), as all of these "communist" states failed to commit to abolishing capitalism.

Today communism is the official form of government in only five countries: China, North Korea, Laos, Cuba, and Vietnam. However, none of these meet the true definition of communism. Instead, they can be said to be in a transitional stage between the end of capitalism and the establishment of communism.

While all five countries have authoritarian governments, their commitment to abolishing capitalism is debatable.

Which countries are communist? | Britannica

Which countries are communist? At one time about one-third of the world's population lived under communist governments, most notably in the republics

www.britannica.com

Some scholars argue that places, such as Maoist China and the USSR, were state capitalist countries and that present day China is a mixture of a state-capitalism and a private capitalism.

 

[Pessimist]

Right, and American capitalism isn't depraved in nature. I love our free and democratic elections where we can choose either corporate interest group #1 or corporate interest group #2.

Would you prefer to live in an authoritarian one-party communist state? There's only one party you can vote for, which sounds like something you would like.

 

[obligatoryshackles]

Would you prefer to live in an authoritarian one-party communist state? There's only one party you can vote for, which sounds like something you would like.

Well truth to be told, I would prefer not to live anywhere at all. Why do you think this discussion is taking place on this website? lol.

But yeah, I think I would prefer to live in a state that at least cares about maintaining the appearance of caring about its people than a state that blatantly only cares about corporate interests.

You can say what you want. China was built on the bodies of millions of its own people (which, to be fair, was true even before the 20th century). The US was built on the blood and tears of black slaves and the ruins of the indigenous people. Don't pretend one is worse than the other based on the flavor of your favorite boots.

 

[Pessimist]

Well truth to be told, I would prefer not to live anywhere at all. Why do you think this discussion is taking place on this website? lol.

But yeah, I think I would prefer to live in a state that at least cares about maintaining the appearance of caring about its people than a state that blatantly only cares about corporate interests.

You can say what you want. China was built on the bodies of millions of its own people (which, to be fair, was true even before the 20th century). The US was built on the blood and tears of black slaves and the ruins of the indigenous people. Don't pretend one is worse than the other based on the flavor of your favorite boots.

China was built on cannibalism and mass murder of tens of millions of people.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/08/03/giving-historys-greatest-mass-murderer-his-due/

Cultural Revolution - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Great Chinese Famine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Abandoned Character]

I do not understand. You say socialism is dangerous, but proceed to only discuss communism. Shouldn't this thread be titled "communism is dangerous"?

 

[obligatoryshackles]

China was built on cannibalism and mass murder of tens of millions of people.

View attachment 151028

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/08/03/giving-historys-greatest-mass-murderer-his-due/

Cultural Revolution - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Great Chinese Famine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 151027

And the US was founded on genocide and mass slavery on a scale unheard of in history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nativ...od through,policies, forced removal of Native

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangular_trade

Your point?

 

[Pessimist]

I do not understand. You say socialism is dangerous, but proceed to only discuss communism. Shouldn't this thread be titled "communism is dangerous"?

Did America murder 45 million people in 4 years?

Mao's Great Leap Forward 'killed 45 million in four years'

Mao Zedong, founder of the People's Republic of China, qualifies as the greatest mass murderer in world history, an expert who had unprecedented access to official Communist Party archives said yesterday.

www.independent.co.uk

 

[obligatoryshackles]

Did America murder 45 million people in 4 years?

Mao's Great Leap Forward 'killed 45 million in four years'

Mao Zedong, founder of the People's Republic of China, qualifies as the greatest mass murderer in world history, an expert who had unprecedented access to official Communist Party archives said yesterday.

www.independent.co.uk

Yeah, functionally, they wiped out a far larger proportion of the Native American population than China did of its own. If you want to compare populations historically you can't do it with raw numbers with no proportional scaling.

You can say China is bad. I don't even disagree. But are you really defending fucking America here?

 

[Pessimist]

I do not understand. You say socialism is dangerous, but proceed to only discuss communism. Shouldn't this thread be titled "communism is dangerous"?

If you want to be a social democrat, that's ok. But when it comes to socialism... it's the same thing.

Yeah, functionally, they wiped out a far larger proportion of the Native American population than China did of its own. If you want to compare populations historically you can't do it with raw numbers with no proportional scaling.

You're a historically illiterate communist sympathizer.

 

[obligatoryshackles]

If you want to be a social democrat, that's ok. But when it comes to socialism... it's the same thing.



You're a historically illiterate communist sympathizer.

 

[Pessimist]

View attachment 151030

 

[obligatoryshackles]

View attachment 151031

I don't even know when you just decided I even liked communism btw? Like actually please read anything I've written. My argument is that every single ideology is catastrophically dangerous if you look at isolated historical instances and tie it entirely to ideology instead of material conditions and social factors.

It's a problem of humanity not of ideology.

Meanwhile you're literally eating the entire fucking American boot lol.

 

[Pessimist]

I don't even know when you just decided I even liked communism btw? Like actually please read anything I've written. My argument is that every single ideology is catastrophically dangerous if you look at isolated historical instances and tie it entirely to ideology instead of material conditions and social factors.

No one denies the persecution of Native Americans, but the death toll is far lower than you probably think. More people were killed in the communist Gulag.

 

[obligatoryshackles]

No one denies the persecution of Native Americans, but the death toll is far lower than you probably think. More people were killed in the communist Gulag.

As I said. Irrelevant to the argument. People do bad things. For ideology, for religion, for personal gain.

 

[FlufflesAway]

is this baby's first troll post?