Discussion Stop Romanticizing Overworking

[nattys5thtoenail]

It's not a flex to overstrain your body when you have a life threatening condition along with two other mental problems, it's not a flex to study nonstop and fore-fitting proper rest and nutrition, it's not a flex to work nonstop for the rest of your life being overly loyal to your company that treats you like dog scat you'd encounter on a sidewalk, and it's certainly not a flex to forget to eat because you've been working so hard.

You may be wondering why I'm saying this, and before someone purposefully misinterprets what I'm saying because they don't want to admit they're wrong, I'm not shaming people who do this, i with ADHD do this all the time because I suck ass at time management. And YES I know we need to do this to (unfortunately) survive. But the problem is I'm seeing people who do this to themselves shame others who choose to live an emotionally and physically healthy life saying they lack "discipline" or are "lazy" and the laziness in question is not wanting to go to the extra mile due to their mental health problems and prioritizing their happiness. Not to mention these are the same type of people who complain about the cost of living and poverty but do nothing to advocate for the lower class but instead subconsciously spread the idea that it's their fault that they're in poverty and you should literally kill yourself trying to make a livable wage.

I already know some people who are going to get triggered by this post, im going to ignore you. This is 20% targeted.

 

[cotton]

Yeah people assume self management is easy, it's not easy for some with conditions or a way of thinking that makes being like this in the modern world a challenge. Some aren't meant to thrive in a world of being stuck in school and the same workplace all the time :/ just not built that way ig

 

[Ironborn]

I think a lot of it is just coping and trying to rationalise the insanity of modern living.
If doing one thing becomes your entire personality being it working silly amounts of hours or exercising excessive amounts, or obsessing over a political/protest issue, any criticism of that feels like a personal attack and they see red and lash out.
I was guilty of this myself, I was in the workforce for almost two decades and not once did I have a day off sick, it became a point of pride for me but after all is said and done my health became worse because I never allowed myself to rest when I really needed it leading to substance abuse, failing mental and physical health, and finally my first attempt to ctb.

 

[Hvergelmir]

It's not a flex to overstrain your body when you have a life threatening condition along with two other mental problems, it's not a flex to study nonstop and fore-fitting proper rest and nutrition, it's not a flex to work nonstop for the rest of your life being overly loyal to your company that treats you like dog scat you'd encounter on a sidewalk, and it's certainly not a flex to forget to eat because you've been working so hard.

I think the group romanticizing such is rather small. What group is your post targeting?
It's a well known and widely recognized issue: Karoshi

 

[Lostandlooking]

This is not a weird or controversial take imo. It's very common and productivity is valued very highly in my society. To the detriment of a lot of other things, like health and happiness. It's the most important thing, this is pushed by the government where I live. The MOST important thing in life is to participate and push to be as productive as you can be. If you're sick or struggling with something in life. The first question people will ask is: but what are the things you still CAN do.

I learned this way of thinking from society but also both of my parents. They totally buy into it to the fullest. It is like a sin to sit still for a moment. Especially my dad really derives his self worth from how productive he's able to be. And also how much pain he's able to handle without complaining. Of course he'll never talk about it in this way.

And yes, often it's required to survive. I overstretched myself for most of my life. And the consequences aren't pretty.

I don't want to shame anyone else either, it's just how society works. It's almost inescapable. The weird thing is; I tried so hard myself, I had this exact mindset for years. Also I rarely complain in real life because that's what I was taught to do. But the moment you're unable to play the game anymore, you're kicked to the side and people will tell you you're not trying hard enough.

 

[deleted]

Every month I see a report from my country saying that generation Z doesn't know how to value work, fuck these big companies that increasingly reduce salaries and increase working hours to work 12 hours for 6 days a week. They really don't understand that we're not going to kill ourselves to make others rich like our parents did, for them it's normal to work in a factory making minimum wage for 65 years and that's acceptable lmao I hope a lot of people working diminishes until we are treated as human and valued.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

People saying stuff like this is further proof that I'm not really meant to be a human nor am I meant for life. I don't value overworking or even working at all. I just don't. I don't have it in me to value suffering and hardship, seeing people who do value these things instantly makes me feel nauseous. One thing I hate about life is how things like work and hardship is imposed upon me and that I'm expected to fight and be resilient all until I fucking die naturally anyway!! It's just so pointless and futile and I can't understand those who see value in doing this for a few decades. What baffles me even further is that those people are unable to understand us just like how we're unable to understand them. There's a lot of psychologists wondering as to why neets don't want to work but I feel like the answer has always been obvious and is still obvious.

If people value suffering and overworking, fine, but I don't want to participate in a world like this

 

[KuriGohan&Kamehameha]

I agree with you 100%, those complaining about the rise of laziness and unwillingness to live to work do not realise how damaging overwork is for the mind and body. A healthy balance is necessary, but some people have been raised with the belief that their purpose in life is to be as productive as possible, even to their own detriment.

Unfortunately this mindset is cultural in a lot of cases, and difficult to extinguish for that reason. Places like the US, Japan, Korea, and many other asian countries have hard work ingrained as a key staple of values that have been taught to citizens since their childhood days. In collectivist cultures, there is an implicit expectation to contribute to society and not step out of line, don't rock the boat. It's very difficult to change working conditions in such an environment, when people have been taught their whole lives to be quiet and complicit when the boss gives them an order to work overtime, or to drink with them until late in the night.

Some places have an individualistic, hustle culture too. I think the US and Dubai are good examples of this, having money and displaying your wealth is seen as a status symbol. Being an entrepreneur and climbing the social hierarchy is seen as virtuous in the US, even when it hurts the everyday people just trying to get by and do not want to "grind."

In hustle culture, you are constantly looking for new ways to make money, find business ventures, and work yourself into the ground, though I'm not sure if those people are fulfilled in other aspects of their life despite amassing wealth. Yet, that lifestyle is very glamorized and many people want to achieve it, not realising it's a house of cards waiting to fall if your health becomes effected by it.

If children were taught from an early age that money isn't everything, and to know their value by not accepting overtime and other horrible working conditions, I think the overton window on this issue would shift. However, as long as there are deeply embedded cultural values praising the live to work mindset being propogated, it's hard for it to go away.

Being raised in such a culture and seeing the effects of stressful, strenuous labor on my health as early as the teenage years made me realise just how toxic it is. To this day, my grandma will say things to me like I am wasting time learning languages, or gaming, and whatnot, because it's not going to make money and my ultimate goal should be to work as much as possible and amass wealth. At the end of the day, all that money vanishes when we are dead, destroying oneself for wealth is unappealing to me.

 

[CTB Dream]

Ya this all rly prblm ppl think wrk money all

I agree with you 100%, those complaining about the rise of laziness and unwillingness to live to work do not realise how damaging overwork is for the mind and body. A healthy balance is necessary, but some people have been raised with the belief that their purpose in life is to be as productive as possible, even to their own detriment.

Unfortunately this mindset is cultural in a lot of cases, and difficult to extinguish for that reason. Places like the US, Japan, Korea, and many other asian countries have hard work ingrained as a key staple of values that have been taught to citizens since their childhood days. In collectivist cultures, there is an implicit expectation to contribute to society and not step out of line, don't rock the boat. It's very difficult to change working conditions in such an environment, when people have been taught their whole lives to be quiet and complicit when the boss gives them an order to work overtime, or to drink with them until late in the night.

Some places have an individualistic, hustle culture too. I think the US and Dubai are good examples of this, having money and displaying your wealth is seen as a status symbol. Being an entrepreneur and climbing the social hierarchy is seen as virtuous in the US, even when it hurts the everyday people just trying to get by and do not want to "grind."

In hustle culture, you are constantly looking for new ways to make money, find business ventures, and work yourself into the ground, though I'm not sure if those people are fulfilled in other aspects of their life despite amassing wealth. Yet, that lifestyle is very glamorized and many people want to achieve it, not realising it's a house of cards waiting to fall if your health becomes effected by it.

If children were taught from an early age that money isn't everything, and to know their value by not accepting overtime and other horrible working conditions, I think the overton window on this issue would shift. However, as long as there are deeply embedded cultural values praising the live to work mindset being propogated, it's hard for it to go away.

Being raised in such a culture and seeing the effects of stressful, strenuous labor on my health as early as the teenage years made me realise just how toxic it is. To this day, my grandma will say things to me like I am wasting time learning languages, or gaming, and whatnot, because it's not going to make money and my ultimate goal should be to work as much as possible and amass wealth. At the end of the day, all that money vanishes when we are dead, destroying oneself for wealth is unappealing to me.

Ya this see many dsrdr many hpn cz chld abus etc

Money disorder - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[nattys5thtoenail]

I think the group romanticizing such is rather small. What group is your post targeting?
It's a well known and widely recognized issue: Karoshi

I'm not saying who it is but no it's not them, and it was this one particular person who tried to brag about the first thing and shaming someone else for not wanting to work that hard…

It's not even just this site tbh, you'll see this in real life and on other forms of social media.

 

[UnluckyBastard]

I needed to hear/read this. Alot of boomers I grew up around had this mindset. Things are completely different now. Our money becomes increasingly worthless so hard work only goes so far. I've broken down so many times because I feel like I couldn't measure up to their standards. I have so much internal hate for myself because of what my boomer family has put on me.

 

[untothedepths]

you know whats funny? probably 99% of the top earners simply either had rich ass parents or luck/connections. then they tell all us other rubes to ruin our bodies and minds with no support, and bitch about us not having babies to support them when they dont incentive it .

they tell us we have to live to save our money but then bitch when WE "hoard it" (cause the coin guzzlers aren't getting theirs). motherfuckers hardly even spend the money evenly for us all. they dont spend enough to sustain things. so trickle down is fucking bullshit.

they tell us we will love rising housing costs and no affordable housing while they buy their 8th mc mansion. they then tell us we cannot sleep on the streets, nor in the wilderness, and deserve to be thrown in jail/prison for free labor.

they tell us we shall not have accessible healthcare, but they will put us in debt and die, and even encourage us to get $5 to sell our bodies for the medicine they're allowed to use.

they will tell us we will need to fight in their corporate and religious wars. our sons and daughters, brothers and sisters killed for their interests. of course their own bastards are spared.

they tell us justice will only apply to the working class and poor. if you're rich, and you dont cross toes with other rich people, you can do whatever you want rape, murder, whatever! even run terrible experimentation on the sick/disabled for science!

so, if i could, i say we all get together, use our money to buy pieces of land, and figure out how to become as removed from the economy as possible. we'll live as farmer hobo hippies, hold hands, and sing. we'll make forests, make our own food, our own clothes, share all the media we get, and live in strong knit communities. i wonder what would happen if massive amounts of the population of consumers just becomes more and more self sustained?

we might need guns or any form of protection somehow because i just dont see how we could live as peaceful silly hippies without pissing off the oligarchy. cant trust them after things like project condor and others, even if the context was different. hope im wrong though! rich can have their money, and we could have life without them. not perfect, but we wouldnt have to answer to them.
(this is all theory, by the way. and a pipedream. and probably;y impossible. let a person dream)

 

[Hvergelmir]

I'm not saying who it is but no it's not them, and it was this one particular person who tried to brag about the first thing and shaming someone else for not wanting to work that hard…

It's not even just this site tbh, you'll see this in real life and on other forms of social media.

I might be living in a more progressive country, or I'm just privileged to work in the right sector, I don't know.

Anyway, to those pulling extreme hours, it's often counter productive. It's an expensive short term measure.
Injuring or killing oneself by overwork is always counter productive, as far as business goes.

The extensive overwork I have been seeing has been self imposed and generally discouraged.

so, if i could, i say we all get together, use our money to buy pieces of land, and figure out how to become as removed from the economy as possible. we'll live as farmer hobo hippies, hold hands, and sing. we'll make forests, make our own food, our own clothes, share all the media we get, and live in strong knit communities. i wonder what would happen if massive amounts of the population of consumers just becomes more and more self sustained?

There are such projects!
Various IC related listings

While the rich won't allow you to raze or plunder the systems they're building and maintaining, they tend to leave peaceful projects alone.
Your ideas are not new and not very radical.

we might need guns because i just dont see how we could live as peaceful silly hippies without pissing off the oligarchy.

Movements evolving towards something which looks like an armed militia, will for obvious reasons raise concerns. If those concerns (misguided or not) grow too big, the state will intervene.

 

[untothedepths]

I might be living in a more progressive country, or I'm just privileged to work in the right sector, I don't know.

Anyway, to those pulling extreme hours, it's often counter productive. It's an expensive short term measure.
Injuring or killing oneself by overwork is always counter productive, as far as business goes.

The extensive overwork I have been seeing has been self imposed and generally discouraged.

There are such projects!
Various IC related listings

While the rich won't allow you to raze or plunder the systems they're building and maintaining, they tend to leave peaceful projects alone.
Your ideas are not new and not very radical.

Movements evolving towards something which looks like an armed militia, will for obvious reasons raise concerns. If those concerns (misguided or not) grow too big, the state will intervene.

where i live you work however much they want you to or you are probably fired. you dont really get a choice, when that choice is homelessness from being unable to pay bills if all your savings is drained or even the fact that many people where i live live pay check to pay check now.

neat to know projects like that do exist! didnt know, so thanks.

yeah, i get that. i dont advocate for doing so, it was more or less just sorta ghosting the economy. my point was, the idea that the majority of the country would be adopting this lifestyle. thats when id think the pressure would put on the rich since they wouldnt have nearly as many consumers. i can already tell the draw backs of that, but the point of being in a sort of lifestyle like that is basically already self explanatory.

i dont advocate for shooting or taking over or anything like that, but, i do very much understand that. the thing is, when communities that do become big enough to become impactful decide to do whatever it is they wish to, history has provided me with examples of companies funding deathsquads to force their workers back into their """jobs""", and things of that nature. like you said, if it was just small, no name, big nobody communities, no one would care. but i would have a hard time believing that if huge swathes of the population did this, they would be safe. i guarentee you something would happen to break it up, at least in my country where the goverment and corporations have many examples in the past of doing things like that.

i mean, i could go on, but i dont advocate for violence.

 

[YandereMikuMistress]

To be honest I'm glad you posted this, as I tend to be like that, I've also got ADHD but also I'm bipolar but whatever point is, good post, thanks.
I'm bound to belive I'm
a slave to society till the day I die tho, I don't know how I couldn't, but your post comforted me just a little.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I wish I could romanticize any form of working but I really am just that lazy and unproductive. Yeah it sucks to do but I do dig the financial outcome of working too hard. If only I could borrow this mindset long enough to make what I'd need then I could quit while I'm ahead.

 

[YandereMikuMistress]

People saying stuff like this is further proof that I'm not really meant to be a human nor am I meant for life. I don't value overworking or even working at all. I just don't. I don't have it in me to value suffering and hardship, seeing people who do value these things instantly makes me feel nauseous. One thing I hate about life is how things like work and hardship is imposed upon me and that I'm expected to fight and be resilient all until I fucking die naturally anyway!! It's just so pointless and futile and I can't understand those who see value in doing this for a few decades. What baffles me even further is that those people are unable to understand us just like how we're unable to understand them. There's a lot of psychologists wondering as to why neets don't want to work but I feel like the answer has always been obvious and is still obvious.

If people value suffering and overworking, fine, but I don't want to participate in a world like this

You put it quite nicely I couldn't think of the right words but this describes the idea more accurately,,

 

[biasedregret]

I would love not to overwork but I'm addicted to money and I'm on the hedonic treadmill. Schade.

 

[Pluto]

 

[MyTimeIsUp]

Every month I see a report from my country saying that generation Z doesn't know how to value work, fuck these big companies that increasingly reduce salaries and increase working hours to work 12 hours for 6 days a week. They really don't understand that we're not going to kill ourselves to make others rich like our parents did, for them it's normal to work in a factory making minimum wage for 65 years and that's acceptable lmao I hope a lot of people working diminishes until we are treated as human and valued.

I think you'll find they didn't get a choice in the matter. It was the only way to SURVIVE, there were NO benefits. How would you survive with zero benefits, and bills to pay? Bills including rent and food, and kids to feed. I'm pretty sure you would not have survived if you didn't have a job.

You sit there and put down those that had no choice to work themselves into the ground to survive, but you think it's unacceptable you are treated the same? Hypocritical much.

I'm honestly not surprised people have that mindset of the newer generation, because you just proved them correct. Even nowadays people have no choice. It is about survival. Sometimes in life we don't get a choice at all, we have to survive.

Not everyone wants to be on benefits, some love sitting on their arse all day getting a load of money, while others genuinely can NOT work, so they have to. Others want to work, but there isn't much employment in their local area, so they have to be on some form of benefits. Others get away with defrauding the system, because they are too lazy to work - 'I shouldn't have to work if I don't want to' (a lot of the mindset on this website). Some work and are also on benefits.

I would give anything to be able to go back to work, I was one of those that had no CHOICE but to work 12 hours a day 5-7 days a week, to survive, yes not for decades like my grandparents did (again, no choice), but I ended up going through a breakdown (no, not because of work). It is an amazing feeling to have your own money and not have to rely on shitty benefits. It is an amazing feeling to be 100% dependent on yourself.

But putting people down that literally did something to survive is NOT acceptable. And making a joke out of it (your words - 'lmao') is not acceptable.

One day you'll mature and realise that sometimes in life we have to do things we don't want to. You should be thankful your grandparents did that, because it gave you the food in your stomach and the clothes on your back. Have some gratitude for god sake. So ungrateful.