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Unspoken7612

Specialist
Jul 14, 2024
367
"Suicide by cop" is a method occasionally reported in the news media, and to an extent in popular culture (e.g. the song by Heems). The emergence of the phenomenon of "swatting", where people call in a hoax threat, as well as high-profile police shootings, may have increased interest in this method. However, it is not an exaggeration to call it "extremely unreliable", coupled with some of the greatest risks for bad outcomes in the event of survival, as well as presenting serious ethical concerns. According to a study in Los Angeles, only about 1% of people who attempt suicide by cop succeed. Another estimate was one in sixty. Increased public awareness of this method is more than matched by increase police awareness, with police increasingly being trained to recognise and de-escalate these situations.

If you are considering this method, don't feel bad: you are experiencing a state of mind that impairs your reasoning. However, I would strongly advise against this method in all circumstances.

In this post, I will set out three stages of a suicide by cop attempt (finding an armed officer, provoking a shooting, and survival), and the considerations at each stage. I will try to cover everything I considered when contemplating this method, and why it was a bad idea, either practically or morally or both.

Finding an officer
The chances of encountering a police officer with a gun will vary dramatically depending on where you live, with more police officers in densely-populated areas and fewer in rural areas. Additionally, in some countries, it is normal for police to be armed, while in others, it is very rare. In those countries, you might be able to reliably find armed police in places like government buildings, airports, major train stations, or places with an increased risk of terrorism.

Another option is calling the police on yourself. Not only is this fairly unlikely to work (you need to fool the dispatcher into thinking a serious crime is underway and lives are at risk - they're more likely to think you are suicidal and send an ambulance), it poses ethical dilemmas: it occupies a dispatcher, and it might divert armed police away from an emergency situation.

Provoking a shooting
This is basically guaranteed to involve breaking a law, and is unlikely to work.

Police will have their own "rules of engagement". Generally, they are only supposed to use lethal force in order to protect themselves or the public. This will mean you will need to convince them you are genuinely about to use a deadly weapon. Shouting "shoot me!" while just waving a toy gun around will probably get you marked as suicidal rather than dangerous. In many countries, possessing a deadly weapon in public is illegal, and in basically all, brandishing it threateningly is, especially if you cause someone to fear for their safety. There is a risk of being arrested before you get a chance to carry out your attempt, with resulting criminal repercussions.

You could try using something that looks like a weapon, but isn't. This could still carry criminal sanctions, especially as you need to convince the police that you are a genuine and immediate threat to themselves or others.

You could attempt to grab an officer's weapon, counting on another officer to shoot you. This is also illegal. Additionally, other officers are less likely to shoot if you are stood right in front of their colleague.

If you are confronting a police officer in a public space, there is likely to be multiple members of the public nearby. You risk causing these people to panic, or causing them to be hit by stray bullets.

You could try to convince the officers you have a political motive. The stereotypical way would be by shouting "Allah akhbar" ("God is great"), but other slogans could have a similar effect, especially those associated with deadly violence ("Heil Hitler" etc.), or if the officers are guarding a government building. However, this could 1) increase panic among bystanders, 2) unfairly increase fear of the group you are falsely representing, 3) unfairly cause a backlash against the ideology, or 4) if it is discovered you are not really a follower, it could add credence to conspiracy theories about "false flag" attacks. Additionally, a political motive would be an aggravating factor in a sentencing hearing.

In general, police are more likely to shoot you if: 1) you are perceived to be a member of a racialised minority group, 2) you are perceived to be a follower of a demonised religion (in the West, this will usually only mean Islam), and 3) if you are perceived to be a man.

Surviving the incident
There is about a 99% chance you will not be shot, and even if you are shot, there is a good chance (~30%) you will live. Police officers will generally be trained to shoot for your centre of mass, your abdomen, rather than your head. This can of course be fatal, but it can also often be treated. You may have organ damage, or if a bullet hit your spine, you may be paralysed.

There is around a high chance that you will experience less-than-lethal force. Being tased is painful, pepper spray is painful, even being forcibly restrained and handcuffed is painful.

I cannot say with any certainty how likely it is that you will face criminal prosecution for your actions. However, you will certainly have broken the law, so it is a serious risk. While you may be found to have diminished responsibility, or be unable to stand trial, a strong prosecutor will probably be able to argue that your plan showed that you were aware of the consequences of your actions - you had deliberately caused a police officer to fear for their safety or the safety of others. It may nonetheless be decided that prosecution is not in the public interest, but that cannot be guaranteed, and in some jurisdictions the use of a firearm (even a fake firearm) against the police basically guarantees a long sentence. See here.

People have received decades in prison for making hoax police calls that resulted in loss of life, and you could conceivably receive a similar sentence if your reckless actions led to a loss of life. There is a chance that you could cause a bystander to be hit by a stray bullet, or suffer a heart attack. You would have that on your conscience. You might also cause people - the officers or the bystanders - to have mental health issues including PTSD. In some places, such as California, you would be liable for the costs of a hoax call, if you chose that - this could be up to $10,000.

You will find it harder to commit suicide in prison. There are, of course, many other downsides to being incarcerated.

Case Study
I hope it doesn't need saying why it is wrong to actually open fire or endanger other people as part of your attempt.


In this extreme case, a 65-year-old man shot two police officers, who were unharmed due to their bulletproof vests, before being shot himself. He was charged with offences include aggravated assault and assaulting a police officer. Unrelated, he was charged with various offences related to child abuse after being accused of molesting a 9-year-old.

Conclusion

Suicide by cop very rarely works. If you survive, you are likely to face criminal charges, as well as having to live with other consequences such as injuries or knowledge that you hurt others. Please do not choose this method.
 
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AbsentMindedHuman

AbsentMindedHuman

One day, ill be free
Apr 25, 2024
130
Please don't choose this method. It's not fair for the cops. There is definitely better alternatives.
 
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Lady Laudanum

Lady Laudanum

Here for a bad time, not a long time
May 9, 2024
808
It's not fair to put the burden of taking your own life on another person like this anyways. I'm not a big fan of the police but the vast majority of them still would prefer to not be in a situation where they have to shoot someone.
 
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Timothy7dff

Timothy7dff

Wizard
Apr 10, 2024
660
Charging a cop with a weapon in an escalated situation is likely to end in death. If it's their life of yours, they're going to prioritize their life 100% of the time. Cops carry guns for a reason. You will get shot multiple times. If you don't drop your weapon, you will be shot until you do.

I knew someone who threatened a cop and assaulted him. He got a few months in prison (only because he had priors).

Some cops like to shoot people. If you like to kill or hurt people legally, where else are you going to do it legally other than a cop or the military?

There's websites that show suicide by cop. Even timid female cops will unload their clip if threatened.

Cops get to legally rob people (through asset forfeiture). They get to retire early. They have great job security. They make $125/hour directing people around road construction. Most cops are good people. Just find the ahole cop.

It's not my preferred method, but you might be doing the cop a favor by satisfying his psychopathic urge to kill and hurt other people.
 
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escape_from_hell

escape_from_hell

Specialist
Feb 22, 2024
379
The popular take is it is wrong.

I will not promote the idea but I do wonder...

IF there were enough suicide-by-cop as a sort of civil disobedience, would there finally be enough pressure for governments to offer euthanasia to their citizens?

Because as long as governments take the asshole position of limiting access to peaceful exits, directly forcing the hand of government agents sounds like civil disobedience.
It's not my preferred method, but you might be doing the cop a favor by satisfying his psychopathic urge to kill and hurt other people.
Exactly. They will love bragging about what a hero they are more likely than not.
 
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Yarani

Yarani

lost
Mar 29, 2024
256
When I saw the title, I thought "oh please no, not this again". To my amazement, I would find a structured, thorough and rational analysis.

If you still think it's a viable and/or good or ethically okay method after reading this, idk what more to say.
 
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locked*n*loaded

locked*n*loaded

Archangel
Apr 15, 2022
7,266
Since I'm in the US where this could work, if I didn't have a different method already, I'd do it and I wouldn't even give a shit. I'm done feeling concern for other people. I don't owe anyone anything.
 
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Throwawaysoul

Throwawaysoul

Wizard
May 14, 2018
606
If you are caucasian in the US, or any race in a highly educated state this most likely wouldn't work. Just saying.

 
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M

MBG

Specialist
Jul 14, 2023
350
Most cops are decent people trying to keep our society civil. Don't burden them with your suicide.
 
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Timothy7dff

Timothy7dff

Wizard
Apr 10, 2024
660
If you are caucasian in the US, or any race in a highly educated state this most likely wouldn't work. Just saying.

It depends on the situation. Cops will draw their guns on you and shoot if they are threatened. I've seen cops pull their guns on a young, white guy in one of the smartest states in the country. They wouldn't have hesitated to shoot him if acted agressively.

It's not a reliable method, but if you've got no other options. 🤷‍♂️

I had a cop road rage at me for 10 minutes for going through a red light at 2am in the middle of nowhere.

Including traffic stops, I've interacted with police on the job probably 30 times. 29 of them were good cops.

There are bad ones who enjoy abusing their power though.
 
banger12

banger12

Former nerd; current burden
Aug 1, 2024
215
Since I'm in the US where this could work, if I didn't have a different method already, I'd do it and I wouldn't even give a shit. I'm done feeling concern for other people. I don't owe anyone anything.
You dont owe anyone anything, true, but you also shouldnt drag unsuspecting or unwilling people into your CTB either
 
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Unspoken7612

Specialist
Jul 14, 2024
367
Charging a cop with a weapon in an escalated situation is likely to end in death. If it's their life of yours, they're going to prioritize their life 100% of the time. Cops carry guns for a reason. You will get shot multiple times. If you don't drop your weapon, you will be shot until you do.

I knew someone who threatened a cop and assaulted him. He got a few months in prison (only because he had priors).

Some cops like to shoot people. If you like to kill or hurt people legally, where else are you going to do it legally other than a cop or the military?

There's websites that show suicide by cop. Even timid female cops will unload their clip if threatened.

Cops get to legally rob people (through asset forfeiture). They get to retire early. They have great job security. They make $125/hour directing people around road construction. Most cops are good people. Just find the ahole cop.

It's not my preferred method, but you might be doing the cop a favor by satisfying his psychopathic urge to kill and hurt other people.
Evidence suggests this is not the case. Most people who "charge a cop with a weapon" in an attempt to end their life do not die.

There are of course some sadistic cops but most are just ordinary people who think they're genuinely helping, and killing someone who wasn't actually a threat would be traumatising to many of them (as would the experience of being threatened). "Finding the ahole" is not trivial.

You're also making some assumptions about police based on the US that might not hold up in other countries. In much of the world, police are quite poorly paid.
 
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uglyugly

uglyugly

Student
Aug 24, 2024
164
Thanks for the great post.

Police do not need to be drug into anyone's attempt to ctb. Could I imagine living with the knowledge that I killed someone simply because they wanted to ctb? I could not.

Cops are people like us who have to go home after work and deal with their day. Yeah, some are jerks, but that does not mean they should be unwilling participants in another's deliberate death. I support anyone wanting to ctb but I don't think it is fair to force another party to participate.
 
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locked*n*loaded

locked*n*loaded

Archangel
Apr 15, 2022
7,266
You dont owe anyone anything, true, but you also shouldnt drag unsuspecting or unwilling people into your CTB either
I'm not. I have a method. But, I'm still saying that if I didn't, I don't care. Cops will get over it just fine. Anyone who ctb "drags" unsuspecting, or unwilling, people "into" it, merely from the fact that someone has to find your body.
 
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Little_Suzy

Little_Suzy

Amphibious
May 1, 2023
941
Suicide by cop, just like taking too much medicine (overdose), are not suicide methods. These are deliberate stupid decisions! lol

I hate how the mentally ill are consistently portrayed as stupid or violent. It is extremely rare for a mentally ill person to provoke police officers into killing them. They may be manic or immature and raising hell during the call, but they need and want medical attention.

It's unlikely that these "suicide by cops folks" represent the majority of forum members. People who do this could be someone suffering from a substance-induced psychotic episode, a criminal who refuses to return to prison, or a suicidal person who hates cops making an "anti-blue statement. Or, someone makes a bad choice on the spot and is then shot by the police.

Stop putting mentally ill people in the same category as criminals.
 
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Life Is My Coffin

Life Is My Coffin

One final action ⚰️⚰️⚰️
Oct 13, 2023
251
Please don't choose this method. It's not fair for the cops.

I literally don't give a fuck about police. they sexually harassed me when i was 17 and just this year a cop illegally detained & searched my car, lied about a speed limit to ticket me and challenged me to take him to court even though I will do so cus he absolutely lied about the speed posted speed limit. Fuck them, they can eat a fucking dick. At least 1/6 of my trauma is directly because of the piece of shit police
 
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Unspoken7612

Specialist
Jul 14, 2024
367
I'm not. I have a method. But, I'm still saying that if I didn't, I don't care. Cops will get over it just fine. Anyone who ctb "drags" unsuspecting, or unwilling, people "into" it, merely from the fact that someone has to find your body.
It's true that no suicide is ever going to have no impact upon the world.

That said, I do think there's a significant difference between finding a body and killing someone, and this should at least give someone pause for thought when considering suicide by cop. We should not be blasé about whether the cop will "get over it".

A similar issue is throwing oneself in front of a train. A high-speed train is at least nearly guaranteed to kill you (the relatively high failure rate of around 30% is largely because people throw themselves in front of trains that are slowing down), but even then, it takes a huge psychological toll on the drivers, who literally could do nothing. The toll on a police officer who has to live with the fact that they pulled the trigger is likely to be higher.
I literally don't give a fuck about police. they sexually harassed me when i was 17 and just this year a cop illegally detained & searched my car, lied about a speed limit to ticket me and challenged me to take him to court even though I will do so cus he absolutely lied about the speed posted speed limit. Fuck them, they can eat a fucking dick. At least 1/6 of my trauma is directly because of the piece of shit police
Your feelings are valid.

I could tell you that not all police officers are bad, but I wouldn't blame you for not believing me.

I think the more important thing is the risk that a traumatised cop will make more bad decisions. Maybe that's with a member of the public, or maybe they go home and take it out on their partner or their children.

When an asshole gets traumatised, it doesn't just affect them. So if you don't give a fuck about the police, fair enough - please do give a fuck about their families, their friends, their civilian co-workers, and most of all, other members of the public like yourself.
 
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locked*n*loaded

locked*n*loaded

Archangel
Apr 15, 2022
7,266
That said, I do think there's a significant difference between finding a body and killing someone, and this should at least give someone pause for thought when considering suicide by cop. We should not be blasé about whether the cop will "get over it".
I guess to each their own. I only told you my take on things. I used to think as you do on this subject, but have since changed my mind. Cops are paid to kill when necessary. Hell, some of them even kill when not necessary. If they didn't want to work in a job where killing was a possibility, they should have chose a different profession. We all make choices in life. They made theirs.

A similar issue is throwing oneself in front of a train.
My change in opinion extends to this, too.
 
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KillingPain267

KillingPain267

Enlightened
Apr 15, 2024
1,468
Charging a cop with a weapon in an escalated situation is likely to end in death. If it's their life of yours, they're going to prioritize their life 100% of the time. Cops carry guns for a reason. You will get shot multiple times. If you don't drop your weapon, you will be shot until you do.

I knew someone who threatened a cop and assaulted him. He got a few months in prison (only because he had priors).

Some cops like to shoot people. If you like to kill or hurt people legally, where else are you going to do it legally other than a cop or the military?

There's websites that show suicide by cop. Even timid female cops will unload their clip if threatened.

Cops get to legally rob people (through asset forfeiture). They get to retire early. They have great job security. They make $125/hour directing people around road construction. Most cops are good people. Just find the ahole cop.

It's not my preferred method, but you might be doing the cop a favor by satisfying his psychopathic urge to kill and hurt other people.
ACAB. They are basically the biggest criminal gang in functional states. Remember the Taliban consisting of bearded terrorists in the mountains before 2021? Well, look at them now. Taliban enforcers are getting uniformed. So it's going from terrorist to official law enforcers, depending on which group is currently dominating. It makes no difference if uniformed or not; violence is violence. And ALL cops are given the license to commit violence.
 
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Roadrunner

Roadrunner

Student
Mar 18, 2024
197
This would work without issue here in Ontario Canada. If you say your gonna give them a paper cut they'll shoot you to death here. SUI investigation will determine they did nothing wrong because they feared for their life.
 
S

skylight7

Member
Aug 16, 2024
69
It's not fair to put the burden of taking your own life on another person like this anyways. I'm not a big fan of the police but the vast majority of them still would prefer to not be in a situation where they have to shoot someone.

Haha
 
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