Telling someone in "authority " feel suicidal as one last shot or accept have made my mind up and cannot be helped?

[AtomicNewt]

Haven't ever actually told a healthcare professional that I feel suicidal. They've been utterly useless with ptsd and depression so feel the only thing it would do is make my life worse, especially with being able to access prescription drugs etc... In addition feel that it would go one of two useless ways, belittling and making you feel miserable for being so moany or trying to get you into some facility for a time, which also sounds hideous and unproductive, as unless you're psychotic and can possibly be sorted out with the right meds, they're more like holding pens.

I also truly believe I cannot be "fixed" or even taken to an acceptable functional level. I've spent my entire adult life battling MH issues and they just seem to be spiraling outwards and now encompass my entire being. So dead I haven't been able to find or feel joy and feel inhuman. That's not life. I also feel like deciding to end my life isn't an irrational, spontaneous decision. Have spent a great deal of time and thought, as well as many years, reaching what I consider to be a logical conclusion, made with full mental capacity and with depth of thought.

However, although I HATE those clichéd phrases, I haven't "tried everything" as I've never spoken to Dr or anyone about wanting to actually top myself. And I certainly wouldn't, as rambled above, as I'm almost certain it would be utterly pointless. Except I have an 8 year old daughter who I love intensely and is a ray of sunshine (not sure where she gets it from but looking at her I realise, cheesy as it is, the best thing you can have in life is happiness) even though I've been a sluggish depressed mess for the last few years and haven't been able to be the mum I was or need to be, she doesn't even like spending a night away from me, how could I do that to her? But after five years of feeling suicidal I've been feeling ever more desperate. Depression has turned me into a rubbish, hollow person anyway, nothing left to miss now.

Apologies for the length of this but today thinking of making that big decision. On verge of ringing the Dr's. Or is that going to be another terrible decision to add to my list of awful choices? Especially as I feel that I've made my mind up, have had an adult lifetime of suffering and have managed to cut myself off from everyone else. Wouldn't even be asking if it was just about myself...

 

[TiredHorse]

Sounds like you're in a hell of a bad spot. I don't have any answers, I'm afraid, and none of the shrinks I spoke to ever did me a damned bit of good, but if you think you "ought" to try a shrink, I can't argue against it. Sometimes you get one that at least gives a rip, and sometimes (I've heard) they can be very productive. My one piece of advice --and you probably already know this-- is to approach the subject warily, over several sessions, to make certain the shrink doesn't overreact and try and put you in custody and/or take your daughter away from you.

Also, once you feel safe with the shrink, approach suicide in detached, theoretical terms that allow the shrink to not face their own legal obligation of mandatory reporting. It's a charade, and you both know it's a charade, but it keeps the state medical system alarms from going off and bringing in The Men With Big Butterfly Nets. The one shrink who came the closest to helping me knew I was suicidal, but fed me the correct language to use with her so that she didn't need to hit the Red Button --things like "do you want to die, or do you just not want to exist?" The latter gives the shrink some maneuvering room, while the former means she needs to make an official report.

So if you feel it's important to "try everything" (for which I do, actually, commend you), just be cautious.

The best thing you can have in life is happiness. That says it all, doesn't it? I hope you can find some happiness for yourself.

 

[SinisterKid]

After my first attempt, once I came round no one shipped me away to the psych wards. That came after attempt #2 and I went because I was past caring at that point. The head doc there was a total dickhead and was the reason I left. But I did have some support set up and they were excellent for the short time I was in their care. The head doc there was great. Again, no one sectioned me even though I was telling them I just wanted to be dead and gone. I had my group sessions and a case worker and the crisis team came and checked on me every week. Its not perfect, but at that point in time, it helped.

I have a granddaughter and she is the only reason I am still here. I spoke at length with my partner about her and said I was getting no joy from being around her. We worked at it together and it took time. I promised my "son" and partner I would do my best to stay alive every day. I have done that, even though sometimes it would be much easier to just say fuck it and ctb. I saw how upset my little one was after her other grandma dies last Oct and I cant think about putting her through that again. I want/need to be selfish, but she is innocent and does not deserve to suffer because of me. I do my best to enjoy her company and make sure she is well looked after when she is here with us. I would die rather than let anything happen to her.

It does appear to be very hit and miss with our current system. I was lucky, a lot of things fell into place at the right times. I had my little family behind me and I still do. But I think TiredHorse is very sensible in taking things very slowly and exercise caution whatever you decide to do. I was diagnosed with severe depression. The meds helped after initial difficulties. It might have been placebo effect, I dont know or care, it helped at a time when I needed all the help I could get. But you have a daughter to think about and I can understand that you need to consider a lot of outcomes, which must ve very difficult right now.

 

[TAW122]

I think others have given good advice here. I'll just add that my experiences with counselors and therapists have mostly been moot at best and a few times, a bit close to potentially getting locked up against my will. I would echo what @TiredHorse and @SinisterKid said, be cautious and careful of how you tread around the topic of harm and suicide. Personally, I never talked about it when I was in therapy for the fear of misinterpretation and opening myself up to a lot of negative consequences.

Also, if you have made up your mind, then it is likely that the healthcare professional cannot change your mind. From my experience throughout my life in general, when I have made my mind up or came to a decision on something, it is really difficult for me to change my mind.

 

[oopswronglife]

I love your username every time I see you post. NuclearSalamander just doesn't have the same ring. My view is we owe it to ourselves to TRY reasonable things and see. We have nothing to lose in the end if you are thinking to ctb anyway. For all of us here who hate professional medicine due to experience, there is someone for whom it was life changing. It's not like they will lock you up for years. Even if the worst happens and it ends up being a "terrible choice" and you are sectioned for a week or three without benefit it WILL end, and if you still want to leave the world you can. I say if you want to try then definitely try. You can ease into it and find someone you feel good about before bring it up. You don't have to scream "Gonna top myself!" out the window.

 

[AtomicNewt]

Thanks for all the advice, genuinely been better therapy than anything I've received before x

Finally decided didn't have anything else to lose and went to gp. Don't think would have even considered it if it hadn't been for this forum and people here supporting me, allowing me to vent and organise what I can of my thoughts. So take that and smoke it in your pipe all the unenlightened that call here a death cult!

Dr did ask if I was likely to kill myself and I said that if decided I wanted to I would just do it, and no I wouldn't use any pro-life stuff because for me personally I think it's bollocks. He basically said fair enough, which I respect much more than hand-wringing or lecturing.

Anyway, update, he was far more gracious than I was expecting and when ringing round whatever mental places they do insisted on my behalf that he wouldn't accept me waiting fortnight plus to speak with MH professional. Apparently will be assessed via phone within 24hrs. Still suspicious and not hopeful about any "help" but for the first time in my life decided to take the plunge and Try engaging with the head people.

Slightly nervous, more so than when I was riding around looking for somewhere to peacefully end my life, but whatever happens and whatever I decide it is honestly a great comfort to have here and not be alone. Finally.

 

[SinisterKid]

Got everything crossed for a favourable outcome for you and the little one. Please let us know how things work out. Just be wary, not everyone involved in mental health issues are as decent as your GP appears to be.

 

[TiredHorse]

Bravo, @AtomicNewt. That took courage. I'm glad your GP is so level-headed, and I hope you find a shrink of similar quality.

My fingers are crossed for a positive outcome for you!

 

[oopswronglife]

Good job Newt. Here's to luck and success!

Little tip: Don't tell the therapist "No but I am thinking about pushing YOU out the window." when they ask you if you have suicidal intentions. Apparently it's not as funny as it sounds in your head.

 

[AtomicNewt]

Good job Newt. Here's to luck and success!

Little tip: Don't tell the therapist "No but I am thinking about pushing YOU out the window." when they ask you if you have suicidal intentions. Apparently it's not as funny as it sounds in your head.

Thank you, that's actually made me laugh out loud! People are staring, but giggling to myself x

 

[oopswronglife]

What's the update Newt? Are you now in prison for throwing a therapist out the window or are things heading in a positive direction?t

 

[dandan]

Before I ctb I had to try everything, steroid dianabol and testosterone are doing the trick for me, I don't even consider dying at the moment, I'm alright and yes, I hope with a specialist, an endocrinologist, an hormone specialist.

Medicines , therapy , doctors, did nothing good for me... if the doctor can keep me like this, I'll live a good life :)

Just my two cents

 

[AtomicNewt]

What's the update Newt? Are you now in prison for throwing a therapist out the window or are things heading in a positive direction?t

Sorry delay reply, always disorganised and right now even putting my shoes on the correct feet (if at all!) is a struggle.

Not in any prison that's not entirely of my own making, so far...

Have an emergency appointment tomorrow morning. Felt calmed as I could be that the triage psych nurse who made the appointment didn't seem to want to peddle any sanctimonious bs at me, with the despised ticking off or moralising spared. Such rarity in my experience!

This butterfly/radioactive newt might be broken and wonky, but it's going to fight against being nailed down, just yet...

 

[SinisterKid]

Hope the appointment goes well Newt.

 

[Liveandlearnagain]

If you tell any mental health professional that you are going to be harming yourself or someone else, you will be admitted to the nearest mental health inpatient facility (usually many hospitals with emergency rooms have them). And you can't drive there, you'll be taken by ambulance which you have to pay for.

You'll stay for a week or more, and have to pay for the week-long hospital stay. It will be the most expensive hospital bill you'll ever have, if you're in the U.S. pretty depressing.

As I teenager I found the stays helpful and a great break from life honestly. Got to meet other teens, color, eat Oreos, and talk about feelings. And got to miss school. But my problems were not that bad back then, and as an adult, debt is real. Not to mention, it was cool meeting other highschoolers as a teen when you go to the hospital, but now as an adult, it's not too fun being with a bunch of old junkies and majorly fucked up 40, 50, and 60+ year old people in the hospital.

 

[AtomicNewt]

BREATHING TECHNIQUES!!! FUCKING *BREATHING* TECHNIQUES!!!!!!!?!

Yeah, like this

Got told it was that or incarceration.

Gods people were right, as I suspected, glass of water to a drowning woman.

Think picked up "slight" distress and was offered request to gp for valium. Better than Nothing I Suppose, so said ok, as long as its not any of that 2mg rubbish as it won't do anything (like this service!)

 

[SinisterKid]

Oh FFS Newt, so sorry it did not go better than you hoped for. It appears to me its down to us to fix ourselves, because the reality is, no one else knows how to fix us. Some bright spark in audiology suggested CBT for tinnitus.

So you do the breathing and I will do the imaginary boxes thing and we can compare notes

 

[AtomicNewt]

Oh FFS Newt, so sorry it did not go better than you hoped for. It appears to me its down to us to fix ourselves, because the reality is, no one else knows how to fix us. Some bright spark in audiology suggested CBT for tinnitus.

So you do the breathing and I will do the imaginary boxes thing and we can compare notes

Basically managed to get the psychologist to say it was up to me to fix myself. Fair enough, but then why bother going to such people, what's the point? I have Tried. Truly. And that sort of attitude is one that makes the already despairing feel even worse, if possible -that it's all your fault. Was told to imagine myself being better and how that would feel. My response was I could be in hospital with a broken spine but thinking about walking again wouldn't make it happen. To be told......... But you could imagine it serious internal facepalm there.

Then got into a dead end argument, via the medium of an emotional/logical brain diagram (of course! ) about how my suicidal thoughts were emotional. Obviously I think, and believe, that they are the end stage of logical reasoning. Think the chilled, hippy vibe coming my way started to slip then...

Don't get me wrong, seemed like a decent woman, but it was like we were speaking different languages. This sort of stuff might - I truly hope! - work for some people but for me personally I feel inured to it.

 

[SinisterKid]

I can imagine being dead, as yet, sadly, I have not achieved it. I wonder how they would interpret that?

I was told, I was not thinking logically because I was depressed. I came around to the opposite, I was thinking logically because I was depressed. I believed a lot of their drivel because I honestly knew no better. They were the experts, I was just some random dude who was screwed up. I knew nothing of mental health and psychology and SSRI's etc.

I wish I had some answers for you, but I dont. So I will shut up and put my soap box away before I really start ranting

 

[AtomicNewt]

I can imagine being dead, as yet, sadly, I have not achieved it. I wonder how they would interpret that?

I was told, I was not think logically because I was depressed. I came around to the opposite, I was thinking logically because I was depressed. I believed a lot of their drivel because I honestly knew no better. They were the experts, I was just some random dude who was screwed up. I knew nothing of mental health and psychology and SSRI's etc.

I wish I had some answers for you, but I dont. So I will shut up and put my soap box away before I really start ranting

Oh please rant. It feels good when you need to and I'm almost certain it will make more sense and be of far superior quality than anything any wretched system has to offer x

 

[paul29]

I was told, I was not think logically because I was depressed. I came around to the opposite, I was thinking logically because I was depressed.

YES.
YES.
YES.
A THOUSAND TIMES YES.

CBT = Cognitive Behavioural Torture

I have played this whole sequence out, past all of the "treatment" threats, to the point where hospitals won't admit me and where suicide hotlines literally hang up on me.

I even went so far as to read the full Beck practitioner textbook to reinforce the evidence base for my views and gain credibility. It didn't work. "Treatment" no longer sees patient experience as legitimate "evidence", despite it being the only evidence that anyone actually lives.

It's not up to you to help yourself. Or, better said, it shouldn't be. Maybe it must be so for you now, in the context of a "treatment" system that has been absolutely poisoned by the toxic influence of Dr. Aaron T. Beck. But this isn't how it ought to be.

I wish I had a fuller answer for you. I really do. Maybe one day we'll figure it out.

 

[AtomicNewt]

YES.
YES.
YES.
A THOUSAND TIMES YES.

CBT = Cognitive Behavioural Torture

I have played this whole sequence out, past all of the "treatment" threats, to the point where hospitals won't admit me and where suicide hotlines literally hang up on me.

I even went so far as to read the full Beck practitioner textbook to reinforce the evidence base for my views and gain credibility. It didn't work. "Treatment" no longer sees patient experience as legitimate "evidence", despite it being the only evidence that anyone actually lives.

It's not up to you to help yourself. Or, better said, it shouldn't be. Maybe it must be so for you now, in the context of a "treatment" system that has been absolutely poisoned by the toxic influence of Dr. Aaron T. Beck. But this isn't how it ought to be.

I wish I had a fuller answer for you. I really do. Maybe one day we'll figure it out.

Yup. Been thinking about how much of a "coincidence" it was that becoming actively suicidal occurred at the same time I was having cbt. Oh sure I addressed my thoughts, but the conclusion was that I really needed to end my life, that it was the sensible option and not to shy away from it.

Perhaps not what they intended. So perhaps the therapists should approach with a little more caution at times. Think perhaps I always was at the point of needing to end my life and just needed to have a light shone on what was there already. Which cbt seemed to provide. Cbt to Ctb. Not sure it'll make a good campaign poster.

And one last perhaps, perhaps people shouldn't ask another person to unpack a mental box if they have no idea how to put it back again...

Yup. Been thinking about how much of a "coincidence" it was that becoming actively suicidal occurred at the same time I was having cbt. Oh sure I addressed my thoughts, but the conclusion was that I really needed to end my life, that it was the sensible option and not to shy away from it.

Perhaps not what they intended. So perhaps the therapists should approach with a little more caution at times. Think perhaps I always was at the point of needing to end my life and just needed to have a light shone on what was there already. Which cbt seemed to provide. Cbt to Ctb. Not sure it'll make a good campaign poster.

And one last perhaps, perhaps people shouldn't another person to unpack a mental box if they have no idea how to put it back again...

Do feel that I need to add it does work for some people! My closest friend was diagnosed with bpd and she credited it with saving her life. Just feel that there needs to be discussion around how it's not going to work for everyone and that the people administering it need to be aware there are dangers too...

 

[paul29]

Do feel that I need to add it does work for some people! My closest friend was diagnosed with bpd and she credited it with saving her life. Just feel that there needs to be discussion around how it's not going to work for everyone and that the people administering it need to be aware there are dangers too...

This is correct.

If you read the history of CBT, you will learn that Dr. Beck faced powerful resistance to his theories at UPenn - and, as a result, took it upon himself to destroy his colleagues rather than integrate his method into a broader therapeutic whole. Ironically, he was insodoing demonstrating the kind of thought error his therapy seeks to correct.

 

[SinisterKid]

CBT and Mindfulness never did anything for me apart from take me places I did not want to go. It was unpacking boxes I had stored on my shelf in the very back of my mind a long time ago. Sometimes, it is certainly better to let sleeping dogs lie.

I have to keep myself awake because I hate having my eyes closed. Thats when shit gets bad for me. I hate going to bed and its why I am usually up until 2-3am. Mindfulness made that 10x worse I found.

But its like everything. It will have its five minutes of fame before they realise that it actually does more harm than good, like so many other things in this life.

 

[TiredHorse]

perhaps people shouldn't ask another person to unpack a mental box if they have no idea how to put it back again...

That's brilliant.

Sorry to hear it went so damn badly --but not entirely surprised. I'm glad you dodged the guy with the butterfly net, too.

 

[oopswronglife]

And one last perhaps, perhaps people shouldn't ask another person to unpack a mental box if they have no idea how to put it back again...

Amen sister. I am sorry it wasn't helpful. It was worth trying and I'd argue with trying again just to see if you can find a better fit before giving up on it. Doing the same thing over and over to no effect is madness...but a second chance is not the same thing as beating your head against the same wall...its just a second chance or confirmation the first was correct.

Psychology truly is the blind leading the sighted most of the time. Sometimes you get lucky with a truly caring person who even though they dont feel it...believe it. And a blind clock can still be right three times a day...or some bollocks like that.

 

[Hayalet]

Haven't ever actually told a healthcare professional that I feel suicidal. They've been utterly useless with ptsd and depression so feel the only thing it would do is make my life worse, especially with being able to access prescription drugs etc... In addition feel that it would go one of two useless ways, belittling and making you feel miserable for being so moany or trying to get you into some facility for a time, which also sounds hideous and unproductive, as unless you're psychotic and can possibly be sorted out with the right meds, they're more like holding pens.

I also truly believe I cannot be "fixed" or even taken to an acceptable functional level. I've spent my entire adult life battling MH issues and they just seem to be spiraling outwards and now encompass my entire being. So dead I haven't been able to find or feel joy and feel inhuman. That's not life. I also feel like deciding to end my life isn't an irrational, spontaneous decision. Have spent a great deal of time and thought, as well as many years, reaching what I consider to be a logical conclusion, made with full mental capacity and with depth of thought.

However, although I HATE those clichéd phrases, I haven't "tried everything" as I've never spoken to Dr or anyone about wanting to actually top myself. And I certainly wouldn't, as rambled above, as I'm almost certain it would be utterly pointless. Except I have an 8 year old daughter who I love intensely and is a ray of sunshine (not sure where she gets it from but looking at her I realise, cheesy as it is, the best thing you can have in life is happiness) even though I've been a sluggish depressed mess for the last few years and haven't been able to be the mum I was or need to be, she doesn't even like spending a night away from me, how could I do that to her? But after five years of feeling suicidal I've been feeling ever more desperate. Depression has turned me into a rubbish, hollow person anyway, nothing left to miss now.

Apologies for the length of this but today thinking of making that big decision. On verge of ringing the Dr's. Or is that going to be another terrible decision to add to my list of awful choices? Especially as I feel that I've made my mind up, have had an adult lifetime of suffering and have managed to cut myself off from everyone else. Wouldn't even be asking if it was just about myself...

You just have to be careful, and use safe words. They hospitalize people just from saying too much. But if you need someone to talk to then just say I've had thoughts. I always say a year ago. Even though it runs through my mind each day

 

[shelledone]

It's a good point.. I haven't really tried "everything" and what do I have to lose, assuming I don't come off as being actively suicidal. Even just to talk about my feelings, how would that be? Except I have a hard time communicating. I tried once long ago in college on campus and the provider just talked and talked because I wasn't talking much, and then criticized me for not talking. Also, I don't really want MH diagnoses on my permanent medical record, should I somehow go on. Silly, I know. It would be a small price to pay if the reason I'm going on is I found a reason to :)

 

[AtomicNewt]

OK, so meaning to post an update for anyone that's interested (always want to hear how things are progressing in any direction from all of you, just can't imagine anyone having an interest in me, blergh, I know)

So, after the disastrous "breathing techniques" and drawing pictures about how the brain works with psychology theories on paper (not even going to go there) and me leaving in despair/disgust, I received a phone call later that day from the crisis team. They said they had looked at notes and felt they wanted to see me first thing next day. So went along, brain splurged verbally to them, after saying straight off as I walked in room PLEASE DON'T DRAW SHAPES AND SQUIGGLES ON PAPER AS IT DOESN'T HELP and they said basically feel like we need to work intensively with you for immediate future. Also got told was going to be sent to psychotherapist, was kinda like, what ball have I got rolling and why?? So much stress and pain and my minds already done for and made up. Was also told unless I had money couldn't see a psychiatrist.

After next appointment - the next day as crisis team is one away from being sectioned so almost daily contact if not daily - had a phone call afterwards from a PSYCHIATRIST and have been given a script for something and an appointment first thing Monday.

It's all been terribly draining, even by my low standards, so have been reading on here rather than posting, here's honestly given me some sanity and comfort, but it will be interesting to see how meeting an actual head Dr goes. She sounded a slightly aloof and perhaps lacking a bit of bedside manner as it were, but perhaps otherwise they seem saccharine and patronising?

Who knows! Any tips on shrinks? All the MH professionals seem incredulous that I've managed nearly decade and a half without contact, haha.

 

[SinisterKid]

The crisis team are a bunch of well meaning individuals usually with zero training in anything other than do gooding. Their sole purpose is to check on your wellbeing on a daily/weekly/monthly basis. Usually you dont see the same person 2 days running and it gets tiresome repeating stuff over and over. They have no jurisdiction over you at all. They can suggest, but have no powers to do otherwise.

The head docs, they are a whole different ball game. The one I saw after going onto a ward was not my cup of tea. We did not hit it off. The ones after that were not interested in my health, only that I was "safe" and not likely to attempt on their watch. But again, it was a constant chain of different people, no continuity, so back to telling the same story over and over. I worked hard to convince everyone I was "stable" so they would discharge me, which they eventually did 2 years ago.

Hopefully Newt, you will have better experiences than I did. I still maintain that it is up to us to fix ourselves or die trying.