The Biochemistry of Methemoglobinemia and SN ingestion

[littlelady774]

I've written a small essay of what that happens in our body when we ingest sodium nitrite. I will do my best to describe the pathology and biochemistry of methemoglobinemia and nitrite poisoning. This is from my own research and I will post the sources from scientific articles and journals. Hopefully this information will shed some light for the community and those who are considering SN as their method. It is a rough estimate of what to expect from the time it reaches our mouths to the time of death. I'm mostly doing this because I learn and process things by writing . By the way, I'm no scientist or biology major, so if you want, please take this all with a grain of salt ( haha)

Upon mixing it with water and taking it orally, it reaches our stomach, where the stomach acid reduces some of the nitrite to nitric oxide, water, sodium chloride and nitrous acid. The nitric oxide acts as a vasodilator and reduces blood pressure, and it also has a protective effect on the gastrointestinal tract and other organs by protecting biomolecules from oxidative events. Nitric oxide reacts with oxygen to form nitrite and nitrate. Meanwhile, sodium nitrite is rapidly absorbed in the small intestine with a bioavailability of 92%. Nitrites react to oxygen to form oxygen-free radicals, which are powerful oxidizers of hemoglobin. It enters the bloodstream and is made available to other tissues. The oxygen free radicals oxidize the ferrous ion to a ferric ion, making it unable to carry oxygen. Furthermore, The methemoglobin results in a leftward shift of the oxygen dissociation curve, which causes hemoglobin to bind to oxygen more tightly and not release it to the peripheral tissues resulting in cellular hypoxia.This is where cyanosis and the beginning of lactic acidosis happens. At concentrations of 15%, patients may appear cyanotic and are typically asymptomatic.

Because of the leftward shift on the oxygen dissociation curve, and the body's ability to detect changes in the blood and tissue imbalance of O2 and CO2, shortness of breath may occur at methemoglobin levels of 30%. Arterial blood gas readings typically show normal oxygen levels due to the blood's increased oxygen affinity and failure of delivery to the tissues. The body's response to higher levels of lactate and low bicarbonate is to level out the pH of the blood and tissues by faster breathing. Signals are sent to the limbic system, which are sent to the lungs to breathe faster. It's similar to hyperventilating. Breathing can be described as fast and shallow. Methemoglobin is unable to carry oxygen nor carbon dioxide.
Therefore, cells need to rely on anaerobic respiration due to insufficient oxygen delivery. Anaerobic respiration relies on the breakdown of glucose and forms lactic acid in the process. Higher lactic acid and low bicarbonate leads to mild acidosis: weakness, fatigue, tachycardia, headache, nausea, loss of appetite, dizziness.

Likewise, heart rate increases from the changes of oxygenation and lactic acid amounts in the tissues. Lactate is fuel for the heart, the higher lactate levels, the higher heart rate. This is why propranolol is recommended. (Although not in new ppeh for some reason)

At 45%- 55% levels, lethargy and fainting generally occur due to insufficient oxygen delivery to the brain. However due to the nitric oxide produced in the stomach from the nitrite + stomach acid reaction, loss of consciousness might occur sooner from low blood pressure. Stomach acid is important for faster pass out time. This is why an acid reducer is no longer recommended.

Around 50% levels, cells can no longer run on anaerobic respiration as cellular glucose diminishes.
The ATP levels drop and the cell cannot perform its normal functions. At this point, the beginning of cell death occurs via apoptosis. Note this probably happens in the brain as well.

Around 70%, lactic acidosis has become very severe, Kussmaul breathing or rapid "deep and labored breathing" may occur. Furthermore, enough cell death has happened due to hypoxia where it is typical that overall death occurs.



SOURCES

1. https://courses.washington.edu/med610/abg/abg_primer2.html
2. https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/81131491.pdf
3. https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/24492-metabolic-acidosis
4. https://flipper.diff.org/app/items/info/6026
5. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kussmaul_breathing
6. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK537317/
7. https://www.chemicalaid.com/tools/equationbalancer.php?equation=NaNO2+%2B+HCl+%3D+NO+%2B+H2O+%2B+NaNO3+%2B+NaCl&hl=en
8. https://biologydictionary.net/anaerobic-respiration/#definition
9. http://toxicology.ucsd.edu/art 2 methemoglobin.pdf
10. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S089158491200336X
11. https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s12245-009-0149-0.pdf

I think that's all the sources, if you have a question on something, please comment below

 

[Zegers]

Interesting (:

 

[stilhavinightmares]

Thanks for sharing this. It's very succinct!

 

[Jarni]

thank you :-)

 

[jodes2]

Nicely written, a useful reference, thanks

 

[Fktw0rld]

That sounds great! I can't wait to experience all of it to be honest. It's gonna be so nice to know I'm on my way out.

Thanks for that essay

 

[littlelady774]

Interesting (:

Thanks for sharing this. It's very succinct!

thank you :-)

Nicely written, a useful reference, thanks

Thanks everyone and you're welcome

That sounds great! I can't wait to experience all of it to be honest. It's gonna be so nice to know I'm on my way out.

Thanks for that essay

I sense sarcasm. Didn't mean to make it sound unpleasant, just realistic. By the way, the really unpleasant symptoms probably happen after loss of consciousness

 

[Decided98]

So what medications are recommended now?

 

[littlelady774]

So what medications are recommended now?

Just benzos and meto as per the new ppeh. I'd still take some propranolol for the heart rate though

 

[Forever Sleep]

Thanks so much for this.

 

[littlelady774]

Thanks so much for this.

No problem!

 

[Forever Sleep]

No problem!

I think you should copy and paste this into the SN megathread- link below.

It's a good description- I think a lot of people would like to know the science behind SN. They'll likely go there though to research- these individual threads tend to get lost quite quickly.

I would do it- but it's your thread- you did all the work. Up to you but just a thought. Thanks again for posting it.

SN megathread

This post will be dedicated to compiling all the information we have on the Sodium Nitrite method (SN), including what else is needed and comparing it to other popular methods. Before starting, I HIGHLY encourage you read most, if not all, of the chapters on the PPH, as this method may not be...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[littlelady774]

I think you should copy and paste this into the SN megathread- link below.

It's a good description- I think a lot of people would like to know the science behind SN. They'll likely go there though to research- these individual threads tend to get lost quite quickly.

I would do it- but it's your thread- you did all the work. Up to you but just a thought. Thanks again for posting it.

SN megathread

This post will be dedicated to compiling all the information we have on the Sodium Nitrite method (SN), including what else is needed and comparing it to other popular methods. Before starting, I HIGHLY encourage you read most, if not all, of the chapters on the PPH, as this method may not be...

sanctioned-suicide.net

Will do! Sounds like a great idea

 

[Dubito]

Many thanks for your effort! Turned out very informative. Have you thought about adding reaction equations? But maybe that makes the text illegible.

 

[littlelady774]

Many thanks for your effort! Turned out very informative. Have you thought about adding reaction equations? But maybe that makes the text illegible.

You're welcome!
I can no longer edit the text, but some of the chemical reaction equations are as follows:

Stomach acid + sodium nitrite:

2NaNO2(aq) + 2HCl(aq) → 2NaCl(aq) + NO2(g) + NO(g)+ H2O(l)

Nitrite reacting to deoxyhemoglobin to form nitric oxide and methemoglobin:
NO2− + HbFe+2 (deoxyhemoglobin) + H+ → NO (nitric oxide) + HbFe+3 + OH−.

Other reactions that happen inside a cell:


I'm no chemist, but hopefully that explains some things

 

[picapica]

Incredibly interesting!
Im a biology major, 3rd semester and pretty stupid so I dont know much myself, but from what I know this is very accurate.
Nice to see someone else who is also interested in the more tactical and biological side of CTB.
Im a very new member and have no posts on here yet, but yours has given me the motivation to someday write something similar
regarding a different method.
Thank you for writing!

(Ps.: I saw your comment wondering whether other commenters were being sarcastic. Please be assured that I am 100% genuine with what I am saying. I am intimately familiar with these kinds of insecurities, and I would never lie to or make fun of anyone, especially not a stranger.)

 

[littlelady774]

Incredibly interesting!
Im a biology major, 3rd semester and pretty stupid so I dont know much myself, but from what I know this is very accurate.
Nice to see someone else who is also interested in the more tactical and biological side of CTB.
Im a very new member and have no posts on here yet, but yours has given me the motivation to someday write something similar
regarding a different method.
Thank you for writing!

(Ps.: I saw your comment wondering whether other commenters were being sarcastic. Please be assured that I am 100% genuine with what I am saying. I am intimately familiar with these kinds of insecurities, and I would never lie to or make fun of anyone, especially not a stranger.)

Thanks I appreciate it! I just suspected one was being sarcastic, the others were very genuine.
I'm glad to see a biology major here! Welcome to the forum! And I would love to read an essay of yours someday about the biological technicalities of a method :) it's very interesting to research what all happens in the body

 

[Dubito]

You're welcome!
I can no longer edit the text, but some of the chemical reaction equations are as follows:

Stomach acid + sodium nitrite:

2NaNO2(aq) + 2HCl(aq) → 2NaCl(aq) + NO2(g) + NO(g)+ H2O(l)

Nitrite reacting to deoxyhemoglobin to form nitric oxide and methemoglobin:
NO2− + HbFe+2 (deoxyhemoglobin) + H+ → NO (nitric oxide) + HbFe+3 + OH−.

Other reactions that happen inside a cell:
View attachment 104127

I'm no chemist, but hopefully that explains some things

Thank you very much.

 

[HerculePoirot]

Very instructive, thanks.
Additionally, do you have any clue about the exact moment you can't feel pain anymore? Is it immediately after you pass out (i.e. minutes after poison ingestion)? Or can pain last until death (i.e. one hour or even more)?

 

[littlelady774]

Very instructive, thanks.
Additionally, do you have any clue about the exact moment you can't feel pain anymore? Is it immediately after you pass out (i.e. minutes after poison ingestion)? Or can pain last until death (i.e. one hour or even more)?

Honestly I can't give you an exact answer. I think the person in the peaceful pill handbook passed out at about 12 minutes after ingestion. I assume while you are passed out you can't feel pain anymore.
Fainting probably happens when Methemoglobin levels are around the 45% mark- that's the percentage of blood loss one takes to pass out. Methemoglobin is like have blood loss. Also, You might pass out sooner due to the nitric oxide produced in the stomach and low blood pressure, provided no acid reducer is taken.
That's just my best guess.

 

[Zegers]

I sense sarcasm

why? we are all learners here

propranolol

At the moment i have not been able to get this, maybe taking more benzos could replace it? PN said in a vid that prop enhances SN so iwill try to get it and add around 100mg

 

[Decided98]

I

Just benzos and meto as per the new ppeh. I'd still take some propranolol for the heart rate though

have meto, Lexapro and propranolol
I'll be taking Panadol aswell

I've written a small essay of what that happens in our body when we ingest sodium nitrite. I will do my best to describe the pathology and biochemistry of methemoglobinemia and nitrite poisoning. This is from my own research and I will post the sources from scientific articles and journals. Hopefully this information will shed some light for the community and those who are considering SN as their method. It is a rough estimate of what to expect from the time it reaches our mouths to the time of death. I'm mostly doing this because I learn and process things by writing . By the way, I'm no scientist or biology major, so if you want, please take this all with a grain of salt ( haha)

Upon mixing it with water and taking it orally, it reaches our stomach, where the stomach acid reduces some of the nitrite to nitric oxide, water, sodium chloride and nitrous acid. The nitric oxide acts as a vasodilator and reduces blood pressure, and it also has a protective effect on the gastrointestinal tract and other organs by protecting biomolecules from oxidative events. Nitric oxide reacts with oxygen to form nitrite and nitrate. Meanwhile, sodium nitrite is rapidly absorbed in the small intestine with a bioavailability of 92%. Nitrites react to oxygen to form oxygen-free radicals, which are powerful oxidizers of hemoglobin. It enters the bloodstream and is made available to other tissues. The oxygen free radicals oxidize the ferrous ion to a ferric ion, making it unable to carry oxygen. Furthermore, The methemoglobin results in a leftward shift of the oxygen dissociation curve, which causes hemoglobin to bind to oxygen more tightly and not release it to the peripheral tissues resulting in cellular hypoxia.This is where cyanosis and the beginning of lactic acidosis happens. At concentrations of 15%, patients may appear cyanotic and are typically asymptomatic.

Because of the leftward shift on the oxygen dissociation curve, and the body's ability to detect changes in the blood and tissue imbalance of O2 and CO2, shortness of breath may occur at methemoglobin levels of 30%. Arterial blood gas readings typically show normal oxygen levels due to the blood's increased oxygen affinity and failure of delivery to the tissues. The body's response to higher levels of lactate and low bicarbonate is to level out the pH of the blood and tissues by faster breathing. Signals are sent to the limbic system, which are sent to the lungs to breathe faster. It's similar to hyperventilating. Breathing can be described as fast and shallow. Methemoglobin is unable to carry oxygen nor carbon dioxide.
Therefore, cells need to rely on anaerobic respiration due to insufficient oxygen delivery. Anaerobic respiration relies on the breakdown of glucose and forms lactic acid in the process. Higher lactic acid and low bicarbonate leads to mild acidosis: weakness, fatigue, tachycardia, headache, nausea, loss of appetite, dizziness.

Likewise, heart rate increases from the changes of oxygenation and lactic acid amounts in the tissues. Lactate is fuel for the heart, the higher lactate levels, the higher heart rate. This is why propranolol is recommended. (Although not in new ppeh for some reason)

At 45%- 55% levels, lethargy and fainting generally occur due to insufficient oxygen delivery to the brain. However due to the nitric oxide produced in the stomach from the nitrite + stomach acid reaction, loss of consciousness might occur sooner from low blood pressure. Stomach acid is important for faster pass out time. This is why an acid reducer is no longer recommended.

Around 50% levels, cells can no longer run on anaerobic respiration as cellular glucose diminishes.
The ATP levels drop and the cell cannot perform its normal functions. At this point, the beginning of cell death occurs via apoptosis. Note this probably happens in the brain as well.

Around 70%, lactic acidosis has become very severe, Kussmaul breathing or rapid "deep and labored breathing" may occur. Furthermore, enough cell death has happened due to hypoxia where it is typical that overall death occurs.



SOURCES

1. https://courses.washington.edu/med610/abg/abg_primer2.html
2. https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/81131491.pdf
3. https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/24492-metabolic-acidosis
4. https://flipper.diff.org/app/items/info/6026
5. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kussmaul_breathing
6. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK537317/
7. https://www.chemicalaid.com/tools/equationbalancer.php?equation=NaNO2+%2B+HCl+%3D+NO+%2B+H2O+%2B+NaNO3+%2B+NaCl&hl=en
8. https://biologydictionary.net/anaerobic-respiration/#definition
9. http://toxicology.ucsd.edu/art 2 methemoglobin.pdf
10. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S089158491200336X
11. https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s12245-009-0149-0.pdf

I think that's all the sources, if you have a question on something, please comment below

Thank you for the research too good read

 

[littlelady774]

why? we are all learners here

Sorry, my post was meant for fktworld's comment. Maybe I'm just being paranoid idk.
If you read that post more carefully I was thanking you guys for your comments right before fktworlds quoted comment. Sorry for the confusion.

At the moment i have not been able to get this, maybe taking more benzos could replace it? PN said in a vid that prop enhances SN so iwill try to get it and add around 100mg

What you could do is go to your psychiatrist or doctor and say you need to give a speech for your church, club, organization, whatever, and need some propranolol for your stage fright.

I used to use propranolol all the time in college for this very reason.

 

[Zegers]

What you could do is go to your psychiatrist or doctor and say you need to give a speech

Here prop is only prescribed if you have heart or related problems, so i don't think it would work. In the cases you mention, you would be prescribed lorazepam or similar.

 

[littlelady774]

Here prop is only prescribed if you have heart or related problems, so i don't think it would work. In the cases you mention, you would be prescribed lorazepam or similar.

Doesn't hurt to try it. One time I tried alprazolam right before a speech and it didn't go so well because I felt "drunk" lol. I don't think they'd prescribe a benzo for stage fright.

 

[haiku]

I

have meto, Lexapro and propranolol
I'll be taking Panadol aswell

Thank you for the research too good read

Would lexapro act like benzos at all?

 

[Dubito]

Would lexapro act like benzos at all?

Lexapro is a SSRI. You can't compare it with benzos.

 

[LocalAngel]

All of this was genuinely very interesting to read, and put together well! thank you for sharing.

 

[littlelady774]

All of this was genuinely very interesting to read, and put together well! thank you for sharing.

Thank you!

 

[zeenatax]

I've written a small essay of what that happens in our body when we ingest sodium nitrite. I will do my best to describe the pathology and biochemistry of methemoglobinemia and nitrite poisoning. This is from my own research and I will post the sources from scientific articles and journals. Hopefully this information will shed some light for the community and those who are considering SN as their method. It is a rough estimate of what to expect from the time it reaches our mouths to the time of death. I'm mostly doing this because I learn and process things by writing . By the way, I'm no scientist or biology major, so if you want, please take this all with a grain of salt ( haha)

Upon mixing it with water and taking it orally, it reaches our stomach, where the stomach acid reduces some of the nitrite to nitric oxide, water, sodium chloride and nitrous acid. The nitric oxide acts as a vasodilator and reduces blood pressure, and it also has a protective effect on the gastrointestinal tract and other organs by protecting biomolecules from oxidative events. Nitric oxide reacts with oxygen to form nitrite and nitrate. Meanwhile, sodium nitrite is rapidly absorbed in the small intestine with a bioavailability of 92%. Nitrites react to oxygen to form oxygen-free radicals, which are powerful oxidizers of hemoglobin. It enters the bloodstream and is made available to other tissues. The oxygen free radicals oxidize the ferrous ion to a ferric ion, making it unable to carry oxygen. Furthermore, The methemoglobin results in a leftward shift of the oxygen dissociation curve, which causes hemoglobin to bind to oxygen more tightly and not release it to the peripheral tissues resulting in cellular hypoxia.This is where cyanosis and the beginning of lactic acidosis happens. At concentrations of 15%, patients may appear cyanotic and are typically asymptomatic.

Because of the leftward shift on the oxygen dissociation curve, and the body's ability to detect changes in the blood and tissue imbalance of O2 and CO2, shortness of breath may occur at methemoglobin levels of 30%. Arterial blood gas readings typically show normal oxygen levels due to the blood's increased oxygen affinity and failure of delivery to the tissues. The body's response to higher levels of lactate and low bicarbonate is to level out the pH of the blood and tissues by faster breathing. Signals are sent to the limbic system, which are sent to the lungs to breathe faster. It's similar to hyperventilating. Breathing can be described as fast and shallow. Methemoglobin is unable to carry oxygen nor carbon dioxide.
Therefore, cells need to rely on anaerobic respiration due to insufficient oxygen delivery. Anaerobic respiration relies on the breakdown of glucose and forms lactic acid in the process. Higher lactic acid and low bicarbonate leads to mild acidosis: weakness, fatigue, tachycardia, headache, nausea, loss of appetite, dizziness.

Likewise, heart rate increases from the changes of oxygenation and lactic acid amounts in the tissues. Lactate is fuel for the heart, the higher lactate levels, the higher heart rate. This is why propranolol is recommended. (Although not in new ppeh for some reason)

At 45%- 55% levels, lethargy and fainting generally occur due to insufficient oxygen delivery to the brain. However due to the nitric oxide produced in the stomach from the nitrite + stomach acid reaction, loss of consciousness might occur sooner from low blood pressure. Stomach acid is important for faster pass out time. This is why an acid reducer is no longer recommended.

Around 50% levels, cells can no longer run on anaerobic respiration as cellular glucose diminishes.
The ATP levels drop and the cell cannot perform its normal functions. At this point, the beginning of cell death occurs via apoptosis. Note this probably happens in the brain as well.

Around 70%, lactic acidosis has become very severe, Kussmaul breathing or rapid "deep and labored breathing" may occur. Furthermore, enough cell death has happened due to hypoxia where it is typical that overall death occurs.



SOURCES

1. https://courses.washington.edu/med610/abg/abg_primer2.html
2. https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/81131491.pdf
3. https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/24492-metabolic-acidosis
4. https://flipper.diff.org/app/items/info/6026
5. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kussmaul_breathing
6. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK537317/
7. https://www.chemicalaid.com/tools/equationbalancer.php?equation=NaNO2+%2B+HCl+%3D+NO+%2B+H2O+%2B+NaNO3+%2B+NaCl&hl=en
8. https://biologydictionary.net/anaerobic-respiration/#definition
9. http://toxicology.ucsd.edu/art 2 methemoglobin.pdf
10. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S089158491200336X
11. https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s12245-009-0149-0.pdf

I think that's all the sources, if you have a question on something, please comment below

Thank you so much. Can you please tell us based what you have already researched the best way to test the purity or effectiveness of the SN. I have test stripes from water work which is for both nitrite and nitrate. Is it good?