i don't think bringing life into the world is immoral
The brutality of the animal kingdom raises challenging questions about nature itself. In the natural world, suffering seems to be woven into the fabric of life: animals endure painful deaths, predation, diseases, and even behaviors that could be seen as cruel, like infants being abandoned or killed by their own species.
Animals don't make moral choices—they follow instincts that have evolved over time, leading to behaviors that are often violent and unrelenting. For them, there's no apparent reward or higher purpose to justify this suffering. These instincts aren't about choice but survival in a system where pain and struggle are inevitable.
Life is a gift
First of all, a gift for whom? After all, you can't give something to someone who doesn't exist. It's not that there was someone who really wanted to exist and their parents decided to grant them existence; there was no one before people decided that there would be someone, someone who didn't want, ask, or would have been disappointed if they hadn't received, the "gift" of existence. So if anything it is a gift to the parents, or to the parents of the parents who pushed for grandchildren, or to the consumer society that got another consumer, or to the state because there is another tax payer, or to the army because there is another soldier, etc. But it is certainly not a gift for those who did not exist before receiving it. Regardless of someone's quality of life, before someone existed they did not want it and therefore the created is the last to receive a gift.
Since it is not necessary, not desirable, and not in anyone's interest to exist, and since the creation of a person does not move someone to a better state, since before someone existed s/he was not in any state, there is no logic in treating the creation of a person as some kind of benefit. Reproduction is not a gift but an unnecessary creation of a vulnerable person who will inevitably experience unnecessary harms.
Beyond that, gifts are something you get for free, not something you have to work for, and for almost a lifetime.
Something is not a gift if I cannot choose not to use it. And in the case of life, keeping it in a drawer or passing it on to someone else is not an option. Everyone has to use their life in one way or another. There is no exchange note. Even ending one's life, even at a very young age, requires the use of this "gift". Which of course makes it at least not a gift. So even if you insist that life is a good thing, it is certainly not a gift and it is not granted to anyone. People are created, if their lives are relatively good then the compulsion done to them is less bad than cases of bad lives, but that does not retroactively make this compulsion a gift or something that is granted to someone.
A gift you receive for free, and you can choose to enjoy it or ignore it, but it is unlikely that gifts will harm the person who receives them. Life, on the other hand, is not something you get for free, you have to work hard for it non-stop, you can't ignore life, and it can definitely hurt those who receive it. To enjoy a gift you usually just have to use it. To enjoy life you have to work hard. And unlike gifts, if you ignore life very quickly you suffer from hunger, thirst, pain, heat, cold, boredom, frustration, loneliness, etc. It is not possible to store life somewhere and ignore it. Therefore, even if you insist that life is good, it is surely not a gift.
A gift is not something that is forced. Gifts can be returned or passed up. And gifts usually don't end in death.
Seen by 2
at the end of the day almost all of us are very sick and/or very unlucky people
The Inevitability of Suffering and Pain
Suffering is an inescapable part of life, beginning from the moment of birth. The very act of being born is a traumatic experience, where a baby, previously sheltered in the womb, is thrust into a world filled with discomfort. Hunger and thirst, basic biological needs, are immediate sources of suffering. A newborn's first cries are often cries of hunger, a primal need that will continue to dictate much of life. Throughout life, the struggle to satisfy hunger and thirst remains a constant challenge, especially in areas where food and clean water are scarce. Even in more privileged circumstances, the human body is never free from the demands of these basic needs, which must be continually met to stave off discomfort and death.
Beyond the pain of hunger and thirst, the human experience is marked by the relentless battle against the elements. Heat and cold, two extremes that nature imposes, are constant sources of suffering. From the freezing chill of winter to the scorching heat of summer, the human body is vulnerable to the whims of the environment. For much of human history, securing adequate shelter to protect against these extremes has been a primary concern. The search for a stable, safe place to live—whether a cave, a hut, or a modern home—reflects the ongoing struggle to find refuge from the harshness of the natural world. Even in modern times, millions of people face inadequate shelter, leading to exposure, illness, and further suffering. The need for warmth in winter and coolness in summer can dominate one's existence, especially in areas where resources are limited and climate extremes are severe.
Compounding these challenges is the necessity of work, a relentless obligation that dominates much of human life. The need to work to pay for food, water, shelter, and other basic necessities is a significant source of suffering. For many, work is not a pursuit of passion but a means of survival, often fraught with stress, long hours, and physical or mental exhaustion. The pressure to earn enough to meet these basic needs can lead to a life of perpetual toil, with little respite. Even those in more comfortable circumstances are not free from the anxieties and pressures of work, which can erode personal well-being and lead to burnout. The burden of work, therefore, adds another layer to the human experience of suffering, as individuals are forced to trade their time and energy for the necessities of life.
The complexities of sex and reproduction add yet another dimension to human suffering. While sex can be a source of pleasure, it is also a source of pain and turmoil. The drive for sexual fulfillment can lead to emotional suffering, unrequited desires, and unhealthy relationships. For many, sex is not just about pleasure but is also tied to the responsibilities and challenges of reproduction. Pregnancy, childbirth, and parenting are often fraught with physical pain, emotional strain, and psychological stress. The process of bringing new life into the world is itself a reminder of the inescapable cycle of suffering, as each new generation is born into a world where pain and struggle are inevitable.
Moreover, as individuals age, they encounter the physical pain associated with illness, injury, and the natural deterioration of the body. Emotional suffering, too, is a constant companion, stemming from broken relationships, unfulfilled desires, and the loss of loved ones. Psychological pain, such as anxiety, depression, and existential angst, can make even the most mundane aspects of life seem unbearable. Despite efforts to avoid or minimize pain, it remains an intrinsic part of the human condition. The struggle to find and maintain shelter, protect oneself from the extremes of heat and cold, work to pay for basic necessities, and cope with the inevitable decline of the body all contribute to the overarching narrative that life is more about enduring suffering than experiencing happiness.
