• Hey Guest,

    As you know, censorship around the world has been ramping up at an alarming pace. The UK and OFCOM has singled out this community and have been focusing its censorship efforts here. It takes a good amount of resources to maintain the infrastructure for our community and to resist this censorship. We would appreciate any and all donations.

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D

DynamicDepression

Deranged
Mar 28, 2022
352
A rainbow is literally the symbol of all visible light; every color of the spectrum. It's all-encompassing, representing everyone. Every race, gender identity, and sexuality. Whether you are straight, gay, bi, cis, trans, non-binary, black, white, whatever - you are represented in the rainbow flag.

It really pisses me off that people are adding additional lines for trans people and people of color. Why not put every symbol known to man on a flag so everyone can feel represented? It's either that or realize what the rainbow actually means.

And it's so damn ugly.
 
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whatevs

whatevs

Mining for copium in the weirdest places.
Jan 15, 2022
2,914
On a purely aesthetic note, I think the new design is horrid. Moreover, it doesn't make sense to mix race with a flag that represents sexuality. I understand one would want to include transgender in the flag, but as you said the flag already represented diversity, that was the point of the rainbow.
 
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CrossroadsCurious

CrossroadsCurious

"Why do we do what we do?"
Dec 12, 2021
671
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Pluto

Pluto

Meowing to go out
Dec 27, 2020
4,162
I haven't even seen the flag but I think I might already agree with you guys. In some ways, it could be symbolic of the mess that is created when perpetually offended/outraged people are put in charge of running a society.
 
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DynamicDepression

Deranged
Mar 28, 2022
352
I haven't even seen the flag but I think I might already agree with you guys. In some ways, it could be symbolic of the mess that is created when perpetually offended/outraged people are put in charge of running a society.
I wish I could disagree with you, but from my experience with the general LGBT community, it's very quick to gatekeep and be offended by things that really don't matter. I don't understand how, when there is so much to be legitimately outraged about, a lot of people create problems out of nothing.

As a gay person, I'm a lot more concerned with gay and trans people being executed, murdered, harassed, and systematically abused in many places. I really don't care whether this or that public person used a homophobic slur. They're an asshole, so what? As long as they're not using the power or influence to hurt people, I really could not care less.

Here is the new flag, by the way:
iu
 
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Pluto

Pluto

Meowing to go out
Dec 27, 2020
4,162
As a gay person, I'm a lot more concerned with gay and trans people being executed, murdered, harassed, and systematically abused in many places. I really don't care whether this or that public person used a homophobic slur.
I agree entirely. A lot of the confusion has been caused by social media echo chambers which thrive on victimhood. It seems to have created cultures which lose all sense of perspective. There are numerous other examples of this in left-wing politics, and yet when it comes to massive issues like Amazon deforestation, wars or serious human rights violations, there's precious little engagement because these issues lie outside the 'safe space' identity politics bubbles of the internet.

Kudos to you for being one of the sane ones!
 
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DynamicDepression

Deranged
Mar 28, 2022
352
I agree entirely. A lot of the confusion has been caused by social media echo chambers which thrive on victimhood. It seems to have created cultures which lose all sense of perspective. There are numerous other examples of this in left-wing politics, and yet when it comes to massive issues like Amazon deforestation, wars or serious human rights violations, there's precious little engagement because these issues lie outside the 'safe space' identity politics bubbles of the internet.
Exactly. That being said, the same definitely goes for right-wing politics. Take the numerous "culture wars", for example. There is the "War on Christmas" which just boils down to people not understanding that the greeting "Happy Holidays" has always been used in conjunction with "Merry Christmas" and feel the need to be offended by this "erasure of Christianity". Then there is this whole "white replacement theory" which I won't even touch.

I think senseless outrage is a very human thing and it saddens me that the energy isn't put on actual problems instead of these made-up issues. Pretend victimhood is just disgusting to me when there are very real victims who go unnoticed and uncared for. Being a victim is not a good thing and the romanticization of it from both sides of the political spectrum is awful.
 
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Pluto

Pluto

Meowing to go out
Dec 27, 2020
4,162
Yes, it definitely afflicts both sides of politics. Whether or not social media is to blame, it seems that the same primitive tribalism that has seen humans (and chimpanzees for that matter) war with one another since prehistoric times has been brought out and amplified by the immature and polarised political climate of recent years.

In the past I've also likened it to a dysfunctional family in which everyone is bickering, gossiping and playing blame games while serious issues affecting everyone worsen by the day. The result feels like a sad evolutionary regression at a crucial period in the world's history. I've found myself engaging less and less since the majority are clearly addicted to the worthless noise of the status quo.
 
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C

come to dust

Arcanist
Oct 28, 2019
454
As a brown man who has always been excluded by white gays from the lgbt community, I welcome it
 
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DynamicDepression

Deranged
Mar 28, 2022
352
As a brown man who has always been excluded by white gays from the lgbt community, I welcome it
I'm very sorry that you have had to deal with racist scum, but this is not the answer. Adding lines explicitly for black people only takes away from the message the rainbow has in the first place. It fails to understand what it is about and only causes further division.

When they added the additional lines, the flag no longer represents everyone. It now treats trans and black people as separate instead of an obvious part of the rainbow. By doing this, the flag now requires additional lines for everyone to remain inclusive, something it already was when it was just the rainbow.
 
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come to dust

Arcanist
Oct 28, 2019
454
I'm very sorry that you have had to deal with racist scum, but this is not the answer. Adding lines explicitly for black people only takes away from the message the rainbow has in the first place. It fails to understand what it is about and only causes further division.

When they added the additional lines, the flag no longer represents everyone. It now treats trans and black people as separate instead of an obvious part of the rainbow. By doing this, the flag now requires additional lines for everyone to remain inclusive, something it already was when it was just the rainbow.
They are not an obvious part of the rainbow. Go hang around in gay circles and you'll see how cliquey they are when it comes to race. Non whites simply aren't included.
 
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LucyB

LucyB

Cowards be like "be safe".... I be like "Be FREE"
May 7, 2022
79
They take symbols and make them into a joke literally. And when I say "they" I don't mean regular people living in this world. Whatever runs this world does it through people. The rainbow is suppose to represent the light within us. Purple is suppose to be on top because it represents our mind or our crown (some call it crown shakra). Red is suppose to be on the bottom because it represents our beginning (some call it root Shakra or sexual shakra). Saying the flag colors represent people's skin colors or sexuality is yet another tactic to divide people, place people in categories and give them a title that has absolutely nothing to do with who they truly are.
 
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come to dust

Arcanist
Oct 28, 2019
454
They take symbols and make them into a joke literally. And when I say "they" I don't mean regular people living in this world. Whatever runs this world does it through people. The rainbow is suppose to represent the light within us. Purple is suppose to be on top because it represents our mind or our crown (some call it crown shakra). Red is suppose to be on the bottom because it represents our beginning (some call it root Shakra or sexual shakra). Saying the flag colors represent people's skin colors or sexuality is yet another tactic to divide people, place people in categories and give them a title that has absolutely nothing to do with who they truly are.
Funny how you use these Indian rooted concepts to describe the pride flag despite the fact that non whites (Indians especially) are constantly excluded from western gay spaces.
 
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D

DynamicDepression

Deranged
Mar 28, 2022
352
They are not an obvious part of the rainbow. Go hang around in gay circles and you'll see how cliquey they are when it comes to race. Non whites simply aren't included.
So instead of fixing the actual problem, we should change the symbol into something that segregates people? Othering people of color is the way to fight racism?
 
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LucyB

LucyB

Cowards be like "be safe".... I be like "Be FREE"
May 7, 2022
79
Funny how you use these Indian rooted concepts to describe the pride flag despite the fact that non whites (Indians especially) are constantly excluded from western gay spaces.
Nothing is rooted anywhere but above. People don't come up with these things, they don't even know what it truly means. And this is exactly what I mean about titles. Titles (non white, indian, gay) are used to divide people this is why you feel some have been "excluded." It's an intentional tactic used to distract people from discovering the true nature of themselves and the true nature of reality.
 
C

come to dust

Arcanist
Oct 28, 2019
454
Nothing is rooted anywhere but above. People don't come up with these things, they don't even know what it truly means. And this is exactly what I mean about titles. Titles (non white, indian, gay) are used to divide people this is why you feel some have been "excluded." It's an intentional tactic used to distract people from discovering the true nature of themselves and the true nature of reality.
Tell that to all the circuit party instagram gays who literally refuse to be seen with someone non white.
So instead of fixing the actual problem, we should change the symbol into something that segregates people? Othering people of color is the way to fight racism?
Well maybe you should try fixing the problem instead of tearing down literally the only one thing addressing the problem.
 
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TheLastFemaphrodyke

TheLastFemaphrodyke

Student
May 25, 2022
130
I wish I could disagree with you, but from my experience with the general LGBT community, it's very quick to gatekeep and be offended by things that really don't matter. I don't understand how, when there is so much to be legitimately outraged about, a lot of people create problems out of nothing.

As a gay person, I'm a lot more concerned with gay and trans people being executed, murdered, harassed, and systematically abused in many places. I really don't care whether this or that public person used a homophobic slur. They're an asshole, so what? As long as they're not using the power or influence to hurt people, I really could not care less.

Here is the new flag, by the way:
iu
the 'aww' emoji is for the flag, personally I do not like it. I love just the rainbow but I also understand that there are some who feel the rainbow does not fit them. Being intersex, I was happy with the rainbow and not feeling I needed another designation, but I can see how some may 'need' such a thing to feel recognized as a being.

I have to agree that I am so much more concerned with the violence and abuse that is rampant and keeps me living as a 'cis female' so that no one knows my 'secret'. Does the addition to the flag actually help awareness and change thought patterns? Maybe for the individual here and there it can evoke such a change when a person in their life that they are not willing to loose prompts them with insight to the flag, maybe.

Frankly, I grew up in the 60's and 70's when the rainbow was first being used and I had no idea what a homosexual was, what they looked like, and was sure I had never one, and probably never would. I used to draw unicorns and horses and I always drew rainbows. I was teased at school for liking rainbows, because I liked rainbows, it either meant I was a homosexual or I liked them and that meant I was going to hell. I quit drawing rainbows on my pictures. When I was 12, I was sent to the pastor for 'counseling' because I ran home and told my mother that I found someone to love and I was so happy and I had had my first kiss and it was the most wonderful thing ever. Her name was Brenda. I found out what a homosexual was. When I was 13 I found out a minimal amount of information about my birth and genital mutilation, because I had been born 'special'. I was in my fifties before my mother got me to fully understand how I had been lied to from my birth and she has been dead for 6 years now and I can get no further information as everythign was hidden from my father apparently.

If that flag can save one intersex child from being forever mutilated, physically and/or emotionally, I really do not care how ugly it is. I just am not sure a flag can really help such a thing. Has it up until now?
 
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TheLastFemaphrodyke

TheLastFemaphrodyke

Student
May 25, 2022
130
They take symbols and make them into a joke literally. And when I say "they" I don't mean regular people living in this world. Whatever runs this world does it through people. The rainbow is suppose to represent the light within us. Purple is suppose to be on top because it represents our mind or our crown (some call it crown shakra). Red is suppose to be on the bottom because it represents our beginning (some call it root Shakra or sexual shakra). Saying the flag colors represent people's skin colors or sexuality is yet another tactic to divide people, place people in categories and give them a title that has absolutely nothing to do with who they truly are.
Some people want themselves labeled, identified, named, it validates them.
Some do not feel they need it or feel as you do, that the labeling is nothing more than a divisional tool.
Both, are correct.
Labeling validates individualities, by dividing into categories. This division and validation is nothing more than that, a - this goes here, a - these go together there, yada yada yada...
...until someone, in one division, under one label, decides they only want to be around those in their own division, under their own label or other similar labels.
Problems do not arise until one decides to create the privilege for themselves that they are allowed to decide, for not only themselves, but for all others as well, and they do so by tearing down other validations that do not fit into their own chosen criteria, division or labeling.
And you know, that is okay. We don't all like blonds, we don't all like tall dark and handsome, that is cool, so don't date the blond and don't date the tall dark and handsome, just don't believe in gay marriage, then don't get one, don't believe in divorce, don't get one, don't believe in drinking, have a coke and smile and shut the blank up, (wink wink, Richard Pryer humor there, sorry)
 
LucyB

LucyB

Cowards be like "be safe".... I be like "Be FREE"
May 7, 2022
79
Some people want themselves labeled, identified, named, it validates them.
Some do not feel they need it or feel as you do, that the labeling is nothing more than a divisional tool.
Both, are correct.
Labeling validates individualities, by dividing into categories. This division and validation is nothing more than that, a - this goes here, a - these go together there, yada yada yada...
...until someone, in one division, under one label, decides they only want to be around those in their own division, under their own label or other similar labels.
Problems do not arise until one decides to create the privilege for themselves that they are allowed to decide, for not only themselves, but for all others as well, and they do so by tearing down other validations that do not fit into their own chosen criteria, division or labeling.
And you know, that is okay. We don't all like blonds, we don't all like tall dark and handsome, that is cool, so don't date the blond and don't date the tall dark and handsome, just don't believe in gay marriage, then don't get one, don't believe in divorce, don't get one, don't believe in drinking, have a coke and smile and shut the blank up, (wink wink, Richard Pryer humor there, sorry)
People are divided into groups for this very reason. To put one group above another. That's what our whole world is about. This group doesn't like this group. Our world is designed to be this way. This world has been fashioned in such a way that is unachievable by normal human means.

People get validation from these titles because they believe this is all we are. These bodies are not who we are we just occupy them for a short period of time. At the end of the day it's all a distraction from our true situation. We are all prisoners.
 
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GentleJerk

GentleJerk

Carrot juice pimp.
Dec 14, 2021
1,372
What is the sky blue meant to represent?
 
WhiteRabbit

WhiteRabbit

I'm late, i'm late. For a very important date.
Feb 12, 2019
1,469
What is the sky blue meant to represent?
I think the light blue, white, and pink are the colors of the transgender flag.


It looks fugly as fuck, and I agree with OP, the point of the rainbow was to represent everyone.
 
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Feeding Pigeons

Feeding Pigeons

Warlock
Aug 5, 2021
776
A rainbow is literally the symbol of all visible light; every color of the spectrum. It's all-encompassing, representing everyone. Every race, gender identity, and sexuality. Whether you are straight, gay, bi, cis, trans, non-binary, black, white, whatever - you are represented in the rainbow flag.
Thats a brilliant and logical explanation of the flag. It makes perfect sense and I never thought of it that way.

Also its always good to see another Shin Megami Tensei fan.
 
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DynamicDepression

Deranged
Mar 28, 2022
352
Well maybe you should try fixing the problem instead of tearing down literally the only one thing addressing the problem.
There is not a lot I can do but call out racism when I see it, which is what the new Pride Flag is. It promotes segregation and othering, treating LGBT people of color as something separate from the LGBT community. Therein lies the problem. While I'm glad you feel represented with the new flag, I really cannot agree with you in any shape or form.

Again, I'm very sorry that you have to deal with racist assholes, but this redesign doesn't do anything to address the issue, it actually worsens it.

I love just the rainbow but I also understand that there are some who feel the rainbow does not fit them. Being intersex, I was happy with the rainbow and not feeling I needed another designation, but I can see how some may 'need' such a thing to feel recognized as a being.
Definitely, and that's why there is a transgender flag, an intersex flag, a bisexual flag, etc. Those are the symbols specific to each sexuality and gender identity while the rainbow is the symbol for the entire LGBT+ community, including straight and cis allies. Putting those specific symbols on the flag meant to represent the whole takes away from the original reasoning behind the rainbow. An analogy would be putting every member nation's flag on the UN flag even though the UN symbol is literally all of Earth.

Thats a brilliant and logical explanation of the flag. It makes perfect sense and I never thought of it that way.

Also its always good to see another Shin Megami Tensei fan.
I can't take credit for it because I heard it from YMS, but I very much agree with it and think it is a perfect explanation of what the flag represents.

Hee ho!
 
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Kestrel

Kestrel

Flying away
May 30, 2022
32
I've never seen this redesign as intending to be a replacement for the original rainbow flag, more so as a flag that respondes to issues the LGBTQ is community is facing right now. The two are not mutually exclusive and I have seen people flying/wearing both.

I can understand why here in the UK people might wish to opt for the progress one, given we have quite a lot of transphobia in our mainstream media (and politics - transgender 'conversion therapy' is still legal). Having a prominent trans flag on the rainbow is a direct, non-violent statement against the 'LGB drop the T' rhetoric. It's saying loudly: 'these folks do belong with us!'

At the end of the day, just associate yourself with whatever flag you feel represents you. I don't think anyone sees the classic rainbow flag as 'outdated'. For me, I've always felt most represented by the bisexual flag, because I feel far too gay for the ally-flag but a little too straight for the rainbow flag!! :D
 
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C

come to dust

Arcanist
Oct 28, 2019
454
There is not a lot I can do but call out racism when I see it, which is what the new Pride Flag is. It promotes segregation and othering, treating LGBT people of color as something separate from the LGBT community. Therein lies the problem. While I'm glad you feel represented with the new flag, I really cannot agree with you in any shape or form.

Again, I'm very sorry that you have to deal with racist assholes, but this redesign doesn't do anything to address the issue, it actually worsens it.


Definitely, and that's why there is a transgender flag, an intersex flag, a bisexual flag, etc. Those are the symbols specific to each sexuality and gender identity while the rainbow is the symbol for the entire LGBT+ community, including straight and cis allies. Putting those specific symbols on the flag meant to represent the whole takes away from the original reasoning behind the rainbow. An analogy would be putting every member nation's flag on the UN flag even though the UN symbol is literally all of Earth.


I can't take credit for it because I heard it from YMS, but I very much agree

Are you a person of colour feeling "othered" by this flag or just hypothesising about how people of colour feel about it?

There is nothing racist about promoting minority represntation.
 
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NSA

NSA

Your friendly neighborhood agent
Feb 21, 2022
262
Put this on a flag. Problem solved.


800px Munsell 1943 color solid cylindrical coordinates
Really though,
I've never seen this redesign as intending to be a replacement for the original rainbow flag, more so as a flag that respondes to issues the LGBTQ is community is facing right now.
As a disinterested bystander, this makes sense to me. The fact that people's experiences like come to dust's still happen shows that rainbow = inclusive is not as self-evident as it ought to be. Guess some types really need to be hit over the head with it.
 
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ColorlessTrees

ColorlessTrees

Stuck
Jan 4, 2022
261
Can't agree more. I'm literally so sick of the "inclusiveness"/everyone is valid culture that's become a parody of itself and ends up perpetrating harmful ideas.

The current state of the alphabet soup gives me secondhand embarrassment as a bisexual woman with a strong preference for ladies (that also doesn't give me access to the lesbian label or identity for god's sake stop.) The new flag is hideous from a design standpoint and defeats the entire purpose like everyone's said here.

Does the community have a racism problem? Yes, absolutely, but an aesthetic change isn't gonna help that problem a bit.

I'm so fed up with this bullshit. Probably gonna regret writing this publicly, but thanks for the cathartic thread. 😉
 
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C

come to dust

Arcanist
Oct 28, 2019
454
Can't agree more. I'm literally so sick of the "inclusiveness"/everyone is valid culture that's become a parody of itself and ends up perpetrating harmful ideas.

The current state of the alphabet soup gives me secondhand embarrassment as a bisexual woman with a strong preference for ladies (that also doesn't give me access to the lesbian label or identity for god's sake stop.) The new flag is hideous from a design standpoint and defeats the entire purpose like everyone's said here.

Does the community have a racism problem? Yes, absolutely, but an aesthetic change isn't gonna help that problem a bit.

I'm so fed up with this bullshit. Probably gonna regret writing this publicly, but thanks for the cathartic thread. 😉
An aesthetic change does help the racism problem. If your gay party only invites white people and you're flying the diverse flag, the dissonance is far easier to see.
 
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TheLastFemaphrodyke

TheLastFemaphrodyke

Student
May 25, 2022
130
Exactly. That being said, the same definitely goes for right-wing politics. Take the numerous "culture wars", for example. There is the "War on Christmas" which just boils down to people not understanding that the greeting "Happy Holidays" has always been used in conjunction with "Merry Christmas" and feel the need to be offended by this "erasure of Christianity". Then there is this whole "white replacement theory" which I won't even touch.

I think senseless outrage is a very human thing and it saddens me that the energy isn't put on actual problems instead of these made-up issues. Pretend victimhood is just disgusting to me when there are very real victims who go unnoticed and uncared for. Being a victim is not a good thing and the romanticization of it from both sides of the political spectrum is awful.
People are divided into groups for this very reason. To put one group above another. That's what our whole world is about. This group doesn't like this group. Our world is designed to be this way. This world has been fashioned in such a way that is unachievable by normal human means.

People get validation from these titles because they believe this is all we are. These bodies are not who we are we just occupy them for a short period of time. At the end of the day it's all a distraction from our true situation. We are all prisoners.
groups do NOT have to be one above, meaning one better than, another. Simply because one group is written at the top of the list does not put that list above any other. what makes obe group better than another is the individual. I fit better in this group than in that one, I feel better about myself and the world in this group instead of that one. As a whole, the listings and labelings are just thatm llistings and labeliings, namings, nothing more, nothing less. It is something that humans do, categorize and list. we are trained this from early childhood, which belongs, which does not. Blues go here, fruits go here, meats go here, tools go here, cleaning supplies are in this group. That is all it is. Even when you are talking strictly taxonomical terms where you have hierarchies, phylyms, orders and kingdoms, it is not stating that oe group or division is better than any other, it is simply stating all these things in this group are blue, the sky, the ocean, certain flowers, yada, yada, yada. The ONLY thing that makes the blue group better than any other group is the individual who declares...I only like blue, all the other colors are less than, not as good, I only like blue....and someone else who only likes blue states the same thing, and so on, and sometimes, yeah, herd mentality takes over and then it is not just a bunch of people who only like blue, now they want to get rid of the other groups as well because if you are in the blue group, which is the best group, you don't need the other groups, we are blue, we don't need tools, we are blue, we don't need fruits, we are blue! They soon find, like duh, we actually need fruits to stay healthy but because we are better, we will make the fruits, who are less than us, serve themselves to us, because we are blue. Yep, that is how so often it happens, but it is NOT the listing or the categorizing that is the problem, often categorizing solves problems. If I keep trying to plug this US hair dryer into the French outlet, it is NOT going to work correctly and more than likely will cause a fire, IF it works at all, it may just turn on, burn out and be done. However, if I realize the dryer I have is US and only plug it in in the US, then it works well as it should, because I have realized it's proper category and used it accordingly.
The longer one is kept performing a role that does not suit them, the more miserable they are. If we are miserable and seeing that this group, is better than that group, that is our own distinctions that are making it so, or it is the others in the group surrounding us, that we have surrounded ourselves with, or that we have been forcibly categorized into, that we do not truly belong in that is declaring this group to be the best and biasing our own perceptions. When in truth, once you leave the category you don't belong in and find the category you do, you will realize that the group you were in that insisted they were the best was nothing more than just another category. Yes, we still need to be afraid of the blue man group, be very, very afraid, they do think they are the best and the rest of us are only here to serve them......but......how many in that group actually belong in that group? How many of the herd are seeing more than just blue?
 

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