TheRightToNoLongerExist.com - This group with a website, video, podcast, & blog have the right idea with only two major criticisms!

[Praying 4 a Miracle]

Ijustwishtodie brought this website to my attention just the other day, and this group of people definitely have the right idea, with only two major criticisms.

The website is www.TheRightToNoLongerExist.com

The first criticism is that they believe in anti-natalism, which very few people believe in (myself included). This just takes away from their main message. In my opinion, it makes them seem too extremist.

The second criticism is that some people believe in a spiritual afterlife, and again their hard stance on this is just going to turn some people away from their main message.

They also have some other beliefs which I find to be a bit extreme, but these are the two main ones. It's a shame that they have all of these other extreme views, because their main message is right on the money. Their impact would be so much more powerful if they were to focus on just that.

The biggest problem with anti-natalism, is that governments across the globe are going to have a huge problem with it. Our entire species would obviously die out quickly, and the entire global economy would completely collapse. Human life on Earth would very quickly cease to exist. While there definitely are people who would prefer this, or believe this should be the case, it's not going to help governments to support our main cause of allowing safe assisted dying for those who are suffering tolerably.

However, these two major criticisms aside, this group is making a serious effort to shine a big spotlight on our main issue! I'm just concerned about the way that political leaders will view these other extremist beliefs. This group and movement are trying to bring about change, and that's only going to happen if we can get politicians and the general public on board.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Hmm, interesting. Maybe some of the members believe in an afterlife but the website itself promotes them as anti-theists. They probably don't reject people who do believe. I think that's a good thing really- so long as they are united on the common issue of legalising assisted dying. One doesn't negate the other necessarily.

I wonder if they campaign so much on the ant-natilist side of things. I imagine it's more on the suicide side. I doubt they'd want to be rejecting parents who wanted to join. Here is pretty anti-natilist too- don't you think? I happen to be myself but, I don't think we should be rejecting people who aren't. We all have our own beliefs.

I suppose I would pose the question: Can someone be truly pro-choice and not be anti-natilist? Birthing a child is pro-choice where the parents are concerned but, the child gets no say at all. It could very well be being brought into horrific circumstances in fact. Circumstances no human would choose. Anti-natilism makes perfect sense to me in the framework of: It's the only way to ensure that being doesn't suffer. (Unless people believe we do exist somewhere before we are born and, not being born has worse consequences.) Ok yes- it also means they won't get the chance to enjoy life but if they don't exist- they won't be missing that! I don't personally see why antinatilism is so extreme as a concept.

Of course, I understand why not everyone is. Some people truly believe they can bring a child here and give it a good life. If they end up doing that- I hope they were right!

 

[Praying 4 a Miracle]

Lots of lots of people do want to be parents and have a family, and some people do have an amazing life. I personally did for almost 60 years. Anti-natalism is basically the same as anti-life, and I don't feel that it's right for that agenda to be forced onto everyone. I do feel it's right to force the agenda that every adult should be able to safely escape their pain and suffering if they so choose.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Lots of lots of people do want to be parents and have a family, and some people do have an amazing life. I personally did for almost 60 years. Anti-natalism is basically the same as anti-life, and I don't feel that it's right for that agenda to be forced onto everyone. I do feel it's right to force the agenda that every adult should be able to safely escape their pain and suffering if they so choose.

Are they forcing that agenda on everyone though? Can they? How do you stop people having children? You can't. Imagine what would happen if people started campaigning outside maternity clinics- waving placards with: 'Abort your baby and save it from this world!' There's no way our governments would support that. They might support assisted dying though. I imagine it's that they tend to focus on.

I suppose they might be trying to guilt trip people who have had chilren or, want them. Really though- they're expressing an idea. I doubt membership to that group also hinges on being anti-natilist. I don't know enough about it really but, I imagine they want as many people to join as they can get. I doubt they can afford to turn away either religious people, parents or natilists.

I suppose ultimately, the question is: Is any amount of non consensual suffering ok in this world? Because- that's what some births will result in (all to some extent- I would argue) and there's no absolute way of knowing whether your child will suffer. My parents were good, loving parents overall. They simply can't protect their child from everything though. It's a lottery to some extent where there are booby prizes as well as big wins.

Some will argue that life for the majority is good enough to outweigh the suffering. Perhaps they're right- I suppose it is still the majority of people that want to be alive and are maybe even grateful for the opportunity. Some will suffer for that choice though and, suffer terribly. Depends if someone is willing for that to be their child I suppose. I personally don't think it's fair to expose another person to that risk without their consent. Seeing as we can't get their consent, I personally feel the kinder option is to refrain from bringing them about.

Put it like this: 'So- I hope you don't mind... I've entered you into this once in a lifetime experience! There's all these incredible things they showed me that could happen for you. It looked amazing! Oh- there is a small-medium chance you might get ill, be raped, be bereaved, made redundant. Oh- and, it's not free and don't think I can afford to pay for the whole thing for you- you'll need to get off your arse and get a job. Oh- and you'll die at the end of it all. Not sure when or how but, it could be painful... What's that? It doesn't sound too appealing? You don't think you want it? Well- tough shit! You can't leave now. Well- you can but, everyone will do all they can to make it as risky and painful and guilt ridden as possible.'

Sorry to go off on a rant but I want to express why I don't see antinatilism as extremist or, unreasonable. I'm not saying everyone should think like this or that I'll hate them if they do. I don't think it's even very sustainable to force our own ideas on others. I think we need to make choices ourselves for them to be sustainable.

The ironic thing is- I maybe wouldn't have such antinatilist beliefs if assisted suicide was available and to more people. It's the fact that some of us are effectively being born into a hostage situation I have the greatest problem with. We don't get the choice to come here and then, we don't get the choice to leave! I don't think that's changing anytime soon. It might- for the terminally/ chronically ill eventually but that still means the rest of us have to struggle through life till we get to the point at which doctors agree our life is shit enough to leave it.

So it's more a case of- why bring people into THIS world? Not that life as an overall concept is always going to be bad. But- forced labour (unless you can fund your child's entire life,) very likely illness, bereavement, death. Those things aren't great. And, they're all likely or going to happen with no means of peacefully opting out. Doesn't seem fair to expose someone you hate- let alone love to that. In my, all be it- pessimistic view.

I'm just glad I haven't procreated. That's the main thing for me. Because I feel sure that if I had- my heart would be breaking watching them suffer now.

 

[sevennn]

antinatalism is not an extremist belief. it's not a movement or anything. it's just a philosophy really.

 

[Praying 4 a Miracle]

antinatalism is not an extremist belief. it's not a movement or anything. it's just a philosophy really.

I see what you mean. I can see how it would be easy to have this philosophy if all someone has experienced in life has been pain and suffering. I guess the way I look at it is life does have the potential to be really good, and if there's a chance of giving that to someone by allowing them to be born, why not?

The big problem that needs to be solved is allowing people to escape peacefully if things don't work out. To me that's the key. There's no problem with bringing more children into the world, as long as we can all escape if things become tragic, and we feel it's necessary. To me, being forced into the world, and then being forced to stay in the world no matter what is the big problem.

 

[sevennn]

I see what you mean. I can see how it would be easy to have this philosophy if all someone has experienced in life has been pain and suffering. I guess the way I look at it is life does have the potential to be really good, and if there's a chance of giving that to someone by allowing them to be born, why not?

The big problem that needs to be solved is allowing people to escape peacefully if things don't work out. To me that's the key. There's no problem with bringing more children into the world, as long as we can all escape if things become tragic, and we feel it's necessary.

I just don't see the point in it. what if they are born severely disabled and in pain everyday. and maybe they can't even communicate to tell anyone about it. so even if we had the right to die they wouldn't be allowed it. because you have to be speaking clearly and of sound mind etc etc. antinatalists believe that happiness happens a lot less than suffering. and the most joyous of things are never going to compare to the spectrum and severity of pain. a child is only likely to experience one thing for sure - death (like all of us really) literally nothing else is guaranteed. my parents probably thought they are sharing something nice with me now i'm here suffering from auditory torture. it's just not someone's gamble to decide, on another's life. thus i think it's unethical to bring life on this earth.

 

[Darkover]

The website is www.TheRightToNoLongerExist.com

The first criticism is that they believe in anti-natalism, which very few people believe in (myself included). This just takes away from their main message. In my opinion, it makes them seem too extremist.

The second criticism is that some people believe in a spiritual afterlife, and again their hard stance on this is just going to turn some people away from their main message.

They also have some other beliefs which I find to be a bit extreme, but these are the two main ones. It's a shame that they have all of these other extreme views, because their main message is right on the money. Their impact would be so much more powerful if they were to focus on just that.

The biggest problem with anti-natalism, is that governments across the globe are going to have a huge problem with it. Our entire species would obviously die out quickly, and the entire global economy would completely collapse. Human life on Earth would very quickly cease to exist. While there definitely are people who would prefer this, or believe this should be the case, it's not going to help governments to support our main cause of allowing safe assisted dying for those who are suffering tolerably.

However, these two major criticisms aside, this group is making a serious effort to shine a big spotlight on our main issue! I'm just concerned about the way that political leaders will view these other extremist beliefs. This group and movement are trying to bring about change, and that's only going to happen if we can get politicians and the general public on board.

I believe there are some misconceptions about the role of anti-natalism in the movement and how it impacts the core message.

Anti-natalism is often misunderstood. It's not about wanting humanity to die out or causing economic collapse. Instead, it's a compassion-driven perspective questioning the ethics of bringing life into a world where suffering is inevitable, particularly since consent is never obtained from someone who does not yet exist. This aligns with the movement's core values by reinforcing that those suffering intolerably shouldn't be required to endure life if they choose not to. The inclusion of anti-natalist ideas supports individual choice, but the right to safe, compassionate assisted dying remains the central message that can resonate across diverse beliefs.

On the matter of the spiritual afterlife, many supporters of assisted dying hold personal beliefs about an afterlife, and the movement does not negate this. It recognizes that death can be a compassionate option for those who desire it, regardless of spiritual beliefs. Just as laws around euthanasia are based on secular principles, so is this stance, intended to be inclusive and accessible to all, whatever their beliefs about what happens after death.

While focusing solely on the assisted dying message may indeed have practical benefits, anti-natalism may not be as detrimental to this mission as it seems. For many, anti-natalism is a thoughtful, ethical approach to human life and suffering, not a call to eradicate humanity. Policymakers, who are familiar with complex ethical debates, may even view anti-natalism as a legitimate stance rather than a societal threat. Addressing both suffering and the ethics of birth provides a more comprehensive framework that many supporters of assisted dying already appreciate.

Finally, while the political and public climate may affect movement success, true change often comes from clear, bold values. By addressing difficult questions like why people suffer needlessly, the group fosters a vital conversation. Though this approach may initially alienate some groups, it also builds a dedicated community that supports autonomy and the dignity of choice. Transformative change sometimes requires challenging norms, and a commitment to these values strengthens the movement's foundation, creating a space for open dialogue across a spectrum of beliefs.

In summary, while anti-natalism and secular views may seem radical to some, they enrich the conversation about suffering and autonomy. Far from alienating people, they express the movement's dedication to confronting suffering honestly and allowing individuals the freedom to choose life or death.

There's no problem with bringing more children into the world

For those who don't want to exist, the idea of being continually brought into life can feel unsettling, as though autonomy over one's own existence is denied. This viewpoint highlights the concept that life's inherent suffering or uncertainty may be unfairly imposed on those who never asked for it, making the act of bringing new life into the world more complex.

 

[Praying 4 a Miracle]

It's unfortunate that there is no way of getting consent before someone is born. Or, maybe we do give consent but have no memory of it (not likely).

 

[Forever Sleep]

It's unfortunate that there is no way of getting consent before someone is born. Or, maybe we do give consent but have no memory of it (not likely).

I do know people who believe this- that we choose to come here in this particular life. Can't get my head around why! Either we get lied to. Or, there's either some great reward or terrible punishment for not doing the course- as it were. Or, the life waiting room is so incredibly dull that we just get so utterly desperate for something to happen.

Sometimes, I wonder why I would have chosen my life (if I did.) My Mum in particular desperately wanted children. She died when I was 3. I'd like to think I was nice enough to give her her wish but, I'm not sure that I am to be honest. If I was told how shit the rest of my life was going to be. (Comparitively less shit than others- granted,) I'm not sure I would have made that gesture.

Do you ever wonder why you may have chosen your life (if you did,) why you were given it? What you were supposed to learn? All vaguely religious ideas I feel. I'm not convinced there is much behind it other than good or bad luck- depending on how you view life.

 

[AuroraB]

I don't believe TRTNLE is a very large or active group and I don't believe they are doing any political activism to get euthanasia legalized. I believe Exit Intl is the only group actively working to promote euthanasia for adults who request it. Anyone aware of any groups that are ACTIVELY trying to make euthanasia by choice legal?

 

[doneforlife]

It's unfortunate that there is no way of getting consent before someone is born. Or, maybe we do give consent but have no memory of it (not likely).

To whom do we give consent? Consent without paperwork is "no consent ".

 

[Praying 4 a Miracle]

To whom do we give consent? Consent without paperwork is "no consent ".

Spiritually. Many people believe in a spiritual realm, and if this is the case, then that may be where our soul comes from in the first place. This existence that we're all experiencing, may or may not be completely physical.

 

[TAW122]

I would consider them a good group trying to raise awareness on the problems and unethical practices, policies of CTB prevention and pushing for destigmatizing the discuss of suicide in general. I think any group, individual, or organization that is pushing back against the paternalistic CTB prevention policies and culture is always a win as that is one more voice for our general cause.

 

[deadeyesnowman]

The second criticism is that some people believe in a spiritual afterlife, and again their hard stance on this is just going to turn some people away from their main message.

They also have some other beliefs which I find to be a bit extreme, but these are the two main ones. It's a shame that they have all of these other extreme views, because their main message is right on the money. Their impact would be so much more powerful if they were to focus on just that.

The biggest problem with anti-natalism, is that governments across the globe are going to have a huge problem with it. Our entire species would obviously die out quickly, and the entire global economy would completely collapse. Human life on Earth would very quickly cease to exist. While there definitely are people who would prefer this, or believe this should be the case, it's not going to help governments to support our main cause of allowing safe assisted dying for those who are suffering tolerably.

However, these two major criticisms aside, this group is making a serious effort to shine a big spotlight on our main issue! I'm just concerned about the way that political leaders will view these other extremist beliefs. This group and movement are trying to bring about change, and that's only going to happen if we can get politicians and the general public on board.

I don't believe in the afterlife. All life once snuffed out goes into the emptiness. The nihility. The nothingness.

And I think humans need to go. We've blew our chances far too much already. I don't think a reset button is a solution. An absolute wipeout scenario is the superior solution.

The government, ugh... they don't care. They'd rather spread their propaganda and lining up their pockets.

 

[Praying 4 a Miracle]

I just found out on another thread, that Belgium has already approved their MAID program for people who are suffering solely from mental illness. They have broken through the psychological barrier for this, so many other countries will start to follow suit soon. My own country of Canada is teetering on the edge of approving this as well.

They have basically delayed it until 2027, because they want to give the health care system enough time to get ready. If there is enough political pressure from people like us however, I believe there's a good chance they will move the date up considerably. This is happening people, we are starting to pass the political tipping point!

In Canada, depression 100% qualifies as a long-term disability, along with bipolar and others. After doing a Google search, I've discovered that not just Belgium, but also the Netherlands, Luxembourg, and Switzerland have all approved mental illness for their assistive dying programs (PAD)!

Other countries are learning quickly from the successes in these countries, and public support for assisted dying is rising quickly. These four countries are also NOT experiencing the "slippery slope" that was the main concern of people who were opposed!

 

[Tommen Baratheon]

I just found out on another thread, that Belgium has already approved their MAID program for people who are suffering solely from mental illness. They have broken through the psychological barrier for this, so many other countries will start to follow suit soon. My own country of Canada is teetering on the edge of approving this as well.

Do you have a source? (Preferably something in the .be domain.)