Thoughts on Christianity, for what little it's worth

[obligatoryshackles]

A vast majority of modern "Christians" are so far removed from their own supposed ideals that it's laughable that we say there are over a billion of them. So caught up in the worship of God's power as theirs to wield and Christ as a symbol of their own righteousness that you'd think the devil pretending to be God in their heads is unironically what's happening here.

But the real ideals that Jesus preached were fundamentally good. Forgiveness, not just for others but for yourself. That on an existential level, you are loved. That in a world full of sin, it's alright to make mistakes. To be kind and caring, even to the undeserving.

So how did it become all about sin, about fire and brimstone?

I want to worship God, not as a symbol of power, but as goodness itself. Faith shouldn't be about heaven or God's existence, but the very idea that there is such a thing as goodness, that it is possible to strive towards good.

I want to believe in the warmth that Christ preached of, the kindness he showed us. I want to strive towards the ideal world he envisioned, not as heaven, not as the eternal reward after life, but as a possible future on earth.

I frankly could not care less about the drivel some overly ambitious men wrote to try to spread their cult in the late Roman empire. I could not care less about the supposed nature of the trinity or whatever stupid disputes the church has with itself.

I think it's honestly pretty ridiculous that the "founders" of the religion wrote so much lore about how good dying is that they had to add a special "don't kill yourself or you'll go to the infinite torture dimension" clause just to stop people from doing what, according to their own lore, is very obviously functionally correct.

It's a tragedy that in the process of trying to spread their beliefs, "Christians" completely lost sight of what those beliefs should have been.

I can only suppose that that's the nature of the world we live in. I cannot acknowledge them as Christians, but I do understand how it came to be this way, how I could have found myself in the same place with just a few changes in my life.

More than anything, it's just sad that it came to be this way.

~

To me, the apple represents the cruel nature of the world, forcing us to sin against our own hearts.

 

[KillingPain267]

But the real ideals that Jesus preached were fundamentally good. Forgiveness, not just for others but for yourself. That on an existential level, you are loved. That in a world full of sin, it's alright to make mistakes. To be kind and caring, even to the undeserving.

Exactly! As a Christian, I say amen! New Testament Christianity teaches forgiveness of neighbor and even enemy. It teaches non-violence and sharing of possessions and forgiveness of debts. Christ came and inverted everything that the world desires: God favors the weak rather than the strong, He favors the poor over the rich, and favors the opressed, the foreigner who has faith, the little children, the fatherless, the prisoner, and the servants. Jesus' message teaches that to be a great person you have to humble and serve others rather than demand obedience from others. Jesus didn't teach "family values" but instead that all who keep His words are His true brethren, sisters and mothers. Jesus' message transcends nationalism in that He accepted both Jew and Greek in His kingdom. I believe, politically, Jesus' message would lead to an internationalist pacifist anarcho-communist world. Doctrines like the Trinity are important, but they are not enough to live out the faith. The book of James teaches that.

I think it's honestly pretty ridiculous that the "founders" of the religion wrote so much lore about how good dying is that they had to add a special "don't kill yourself or you'll go to the infinite torture dimension" clause just to stop people from doing what, according to their own lore, is very obviously functionally correct.

Exactly, the biblical texts themselves don't say anything clear about suicide. But they clearly state not to kill OTHERS, like neighbor or even enemy. Yet the so called church in Europe was all about killing others in the name of God.

It's a tragedy that in the process of trying to spread their beliefs, "Christians" completely lost sight of what those beliefs should have been.

Yes, some call this the Constantinian shift. It was when the emperor suddenly decided to use Christianity for power. It has tainted "Christendom" since then. Before that, most of the earliest church fathers taught non-violence and even demanded that church members refuse military service and resign as a soldier if they were a soldier considering to join a church. Yet today in America we see evangelicals basically worship the police and military and literally explain away Jesus' radical teachings as not to be taken literal. Lol

To me, the apple represents the cruel nature of the world, forcing us to sin against our own hearts.

Even though the text doesn't mention an apple, you actually totally understand the point of the story! Humans are cruel by nature since they ate the fruit and we continue to eat of the fruit whenever we oppress others, rule over others with force, refuse to forgive, when we hate others, abuse animals and children, destroy the environment etc.

 

[obligatoryshackles]

Even though the text doesn't mention an apple, you actually totally understand the point of the story! Humans are cruel by nature since they ate the fruit and we continue to eat of the fruit whenever we oppress others, rule over others with force, refuse to forgive, when we hate others, abuse animals and children, destroy the environment etc.

I completely disagree.

Humans are not cruel or evil by nature. It is the nature of the world which forces us to sin.

Eden was not made imperfect in the moment Eve ate the fruit, but in the moment God put the tree in it.

In a perfect, unsullied world, man would not sin - just as Adam and Eve were pure before the fruit was put before them.

 

[Amarajoy]

I completely disagree.

Humans are not cruel or evil by nature. It is the nature of the world which forces us to sin.

Eden was not made imperfect in the moment Eve ate the fruit, but in the moment God put the tree in it.

In a perfect, unsullied world, man would not sin - just as Adam and Eve were pure before the fruit was put before them.

So humans cannot make choices not to do evil?

Adam and Eve were pure in paradise and they still chose to sin by eating the fruit. That's the point. There was already something in their nature that led them to eat the fruit. The fruit is only the external representation of that.

Give man a perfect world and he will still sully it.

 

[obligatoryshackles]

So humans cannot make choices not to do evil?

Adam and Eve were pure in paradise and they still chose to sin by eating the fruit. That's the point. There was already something in their nature that led them to eat the fruit. The fruit is only the external representation of that.

Give man a perfect world and he will still sully it.

If humans have free will, given infinite time, they will inevitably eat the forbidden fruit if you put it in their reach.

A perfect world would have not have a forbidden fruit in it to begin with. And thus no original sin. That's the point.

 

[Amarajoy]

If humans have free will, given infinite time, they will inevitably eat the forbidden fruit if you put it in their reach.

A perfect world would have not have a forbidden fruit in it to begin with. And thus no original sin. That's the point.

I got your point. You seem to have missed mine. There is something in human nature despite the fruit so the fruit doesn't actually matter at all. It's human nature that is the problem. And when you give a being freewill you give them the power to choose, this also means you give them choices.

I disagree a perfect world wouldn't have forbidden fruit. We have the freedom to do all kind of things. We can murder each other, we can cuss each other out, steal, lie cheat, etc. You have to have the forbidden fruit to have freewill. There has to be the choice for there to be freedom. If people choose evil that is not the fault of some fruit. It's the fault of some choice made by a human.

Recall what Adam and Eve were told. They never were told they couldn't eat the forbidden fruit. They were told they shouldn't eat the forbidden fruit or they will die.

And let's take it a step further. Let's say God planned on them eventually eating that fruit at a time appointed when they would be ready to eat it. There is a reason we introduce things to children at age appropriate times.

But you cannot have freewill if you do not have options. We weren't given half a freewill. We were given full freewill just as free as any deity to choose good or evil. We weren't limited and given a hamster cage as enslaved beings. We were given full autonomy and authority and choice.

No, not every single human would have chosen to eat the fruit but Adam and Eve did.

Not all of us are so attracted to "forbidden" things.

 

[Jack_Nimble]

It's definitely a not true made up story. I studied the Bible so deeply as a devout Christian I realized it is clearly false and all made up. Sooo many reasons and contradictions but here's two that are rather difficult for someone with a conscious to deny. Yet many do deny cause they're afraid their cruel god will send them to an eternity if fire torture. And for that I am so very sorry that adults would take advantage of children and the power of reputation in our brains to cause them to live in such fear.

Okay so in Leviticus it says women's menstrual cycles are spiritually unclean, not allowed to go to Temple, or have physical contact with family while in the rag. Is said "god" created humans and our reproductive system then said "god" would know that periods are needed for reproduction and they don't make anyone spiritually unclean.

Old testament genocides like in Samuel where a prophet (claiming some perfectly moral god spoke to him) commanndedthe death of every living creature in another nation. It goes as far as to say all the children and infants too.


A perfect all moral all loving forgiving perfect God commands the death off babies because their parents have the wrong religion?

 

[Pluto]