thoughts on cultural appropriation: from a POC

[synthcadia]

hiya, so i am 1/2 iranian and that is a big part of my culture.

recently, i thought about cultural appropriation, such as using other closed languages as aesthetics (e.g. م) or appropriating other cultures by disrespecting cultural attire (e.g. the "kimono" robe).

for me, if someone is being respectful to iranian culture and correctly and respectfully wearing traditional persian attire, i'd be honored. but if it was made sluttily and botched, i'd be hugely offended.

i know some people in the states are against "outsiders" wearing certain clothes or doing things from their culture because it seems like the white man is taking over, but i get their view point. the experience in places like the US/Canada for POC and back in one's respective country is different. for me, i had to grow up with discrimination from my white peers, all while being told i was white. (in reality, i am poc.)

anyway, what do you think?

 

[TransilvanianHunger]

Cultures are not immutable, nor totally original. The idea of "cultural appropriation" seems really bizarre to me, because people have been "appropriating" the cultures of other groups since the beginning of humanity. That's how cultures evolve.

Just look, for example, at the rich history of Iran all the way to the Achaemenid Empire. It's all cultures merging with other cultures, for millennia. All the African kingdoms from a thousand years ago, trading and expanding and conquering and allying with each other. The tribes of Europe that fought Rome. Again, cultures intermixing. It's how things work. People disrespecting some cultural element doesn't strike me as particularly concerning, either. Some people are ignorant and disrespectful. If someone from that culture finds it offensive, I guess they're within their rights to be offended, but it seems like a bit of a waste of time to keep track of such things and be offended by them.

 

[synthcadia]

Cultures are not immutable, nor totally original. The idea of "cultural appropriation" seems really bizarre to me, because people have been "appropriating" the cultures of other groups since the beginning of humanity. That's how cultures evolve.

Just look, for example, at the rich history of Iran all the way to the Achaemenid Empire. It's all cultures merging with other cultures, for millennia. All the African kingdoms from a thousand years ago, trading and expanding and conquering and allying with each other. The tribes of Europe that fought Rome. Again, cultures intermixing. It's how things work. People disrespecting some cultural element doesn't strike me as particularly concerning, either. Some people are ignorant and disrespectful. If someone from that culture finds it offensive, I guess they're within their rights to be offended, but it seems like a bit of a waste of time to keep track of such things and be offended by them.

yeah, that is a good point (the historical aspect, i can't fight that lol). though, for me, the offense taken is more of disrespecting a whole history of a nation that has been colonized and invaded. i guess it's like a part of my personality. so eep to me.

 

[lachrymost]

I tried really hard to squint at cultural appropriation and see what could possibly be wrong with it. Ultimately I just don't get it. I can understand being offended by someone making a mockery of your culture or misrepresenting it, but if they're trying to participate in a good-natured way, I don't know what the big deal is. Like, go back to kindergarten and learn to share.

Plus, virtually no one (I hope) cares that white Americans like sushi and Indian food. Wouldn't eating another culture's food be appropriation too?

 

[HouseofMortok]

I tried really hard to squint at cultural appropriation and see what could possibly be wrong with it. Ultimately I just don't get it. I can understand being offended by someone making a mockery of your culture or misrepresenting it, but if they're trying to participate in a good-natured way, I don't know what the big deal is. Like, go back to kindergarten and learn to share.

Plus, virtually no one (I hope) cares that white Americans like sushi and Indian food. Wouldn't eating another culture's food be appropriation too?

I sometimes argue with the mrs she's white, but takes offense at whites appropriating hair, seems like abit of saviour behaviour in her.

It's just hair. Yours to do as you please. Better things to put energy into than fixing if a white girl has corn rose.

"They have special hair and oils and have hair certain ways to protect it" so? And to the white girl, it's something new, a style, might make her feel better about herself. Meanwhile people are dying in poverty. Priorities peeps.

 

[synthcadia]

I tried really hard to squint at cultural appropriation and see what could possibly be wrong with it. Ultimately I just don't get it. I can understand being offended by someone making a mockery of your culture or misrepresenting it, but if they're trying to participate in a good-natured way, I don't know what the big deal is. Like, go back to kindergarten and learn to share.

Plus, virtually no one (I hope) cares that white Americans like sushi and Indian food. Wouldn't eating another culture's food be appropriation too?

yeah if it is in a good natured way then that's fine.

but i've seen people sexualize cultural clothing and fetishize things. i mean this is my experience as a poc who grew up mostly in poc culture.

 

[Mr2005]

I must admit I kind of like cultural stereotypes. The French with onions round their neck and so on. Might not be a problem if we embraced our differences

 

[synthcadia]

I sometimes argue with the mrs she's white, but takes offense at whites appropriating hair, seems like abit of saviour behaviour in her.

It's just hair. Yours to do as you please. Better things to put energy into than fixing if a white girl has corn rose.

"They have special hair and oils and have hair certain ways to protect it" so? And to the white girl, it's something new, a style, might make her feel better about herself. Meanwhile people are dying in poverty. Priorities peeps.

well 1) black hairstyles will damage white hair because it's not meant for that hair type so proceed with caution there lol.

2) i think some people may take it as the privileged white person invading and using another culture's stuff without consequence (not the exact right wording). e.g. a white woman may have cornrows (cornrose?) and it may be tolerated while black women get discriminated for their hair in the workplace.

that's where i'm coming from. also, i appreciate your opinions (to all responses)!

I must admit I kind of like cultural stereotypes. The French with onions round their neck and so on. Might not be a problem if we embraced our differences

if it isn't like too offensive…. i mean it can be funny. e.g. iranians love white cars, bmws, and gold. (all true).

when it starts to become… negative and not funny, that is where i have an issue a bit.

 

[HouseofMortok]

well 1) black hairstyles will damage white hair because it's not meant for that hair type so proceed with caution there lol.

2) i think some people may take it as the privileged white person invading and using another culture's stuff without consequence (not the exact right wording). e.g. a white woman may have cornrows (cornrose?) and it may be tolerated while black women get discriminated for their hair in the workplace.

that's where i'm coming from. also, i appreciate your opinions (to all responses)!

if it isn't like too offensive…. i mean it can be funny. e.g. iranians love white cars, bmws, and gold. (all true).

when it starts to become… negative and not funny, that is where i have an issue a bit.

See, that's where my ignorance shows, I don't know how it's spelt (cornrose) and didn't bother to google, but you knew what I meant and looks like the spelling got you too so I had a little chuckle there

But yeah, I'd neglected the workplace issue you point out, it's not ok to discriminate there over some hair ffs and likely occurrences you see more white girls with Rhianna pink hair, as if that's not distracting, but it's only distracting if you find it so and then karen and other like minded karens get a majority say in their moaning, it's just hair!!

Meanwhile I suffer in my thoughts, I feel ugly with short hair, I like it long, gives me confidence for dating, but can't keep on top of it and have a wierd thing where I won't go to a hair dressers as a male to have it styled, so either way it gets stuck under a hat, even indoors, hat only comes off when I sleep lol When I've finally had enough of the length, usually have a shit fit cause it's getting in my way/view, I shave it all off and start again while maintaining the hat xD Anxious in both short or long hair that someone will remove my hat without permission and expose me and feel embarrassed by my looks. Which has happened, it seemed so pathetic that once I was teased for the hat and colleagues were obsessed with what I had under there... HAIR THE SAME AS YOU, well not some of them, old bald gits lol, that I ended up reporting em to the manager and they left me alone.

 

[synthcadia]

See, that's where my ignorance shows, I don't know how it's spelt (cornrose) and didn't bother to google, but you knew what I meant and looks like the spelling got you too so I had a little chuckle there

But yeah, I'd neglected the workplace issue you point out, it's not ok to discriminate there over some hair ffs and likely occurrences you see more white girls with Rhianna pink hair, as if that's not distracting, but it's only distracting if you find it so and then karen and other like minded karens get a majority say in their moaning, it's just hair!!

Meanwhile I suffer in my thoughts, I feel ugly with short hair, I like it long, gives me confidence for dating, but can't keep on top of it and have a wierd thing where I won't go to a hair dressers as a male to have it styled, so either way it gets stuck under a hat, even indoors, hat only comes off when I sleep lol When I've finally had enough of the length, usually have a shit fit cause it's getting in my way/view, I shave it all off and start again while maintaining the hat xD Anxious in both short or long hair that someone will remove my hat without permission and expose me and feel embarrassed by my looks. Which has happened, it seemed so pathetic that once I was teased for the hat and colleagues were obsessed with what I had under there... HAIR THE SAME AS YOU, well not some of them, old bald gits lol, that I ended up reporting em to the manager and they left me alone.

yeeee, i like spelling bees LOL.

but yeah, there was legislation in the US that was going to prevent hair discrimination but idk where that went. and yea i say no to hair discrimination LOL. and rihanna pink hair? XD

also i hope you find confidence in your hair!! glad you reported those people who teased you about your hair!

 

[HouseofMortok]

yeeee, i like spelling bees LOL.

but yeah, there was legislation in the US that was going to prevent hair discrimination but idk where that went. and yea i say no to hair discrimination LOL. and rihanna pink hair? XD

also i hope you find confidence in your hair!! glad you reported those people who teased you about your hair!

Thank you, it's a shame it has to come to reporting people, that your distress alone wasn't enough to be left alone. The last job I had a lad walked past and took it off so I grabbed his arm and put it up his back in one swoop and he apologised I didn't expect that cause it was also from understanding and I didn't need to share my hat/hair story with a stranger, he figured for himself a mental issue at foot and that was perceptive of him, albiet after the fiasco, but people aren't to know something like that bothers them, I guess I feel entitled from the get go to not having personal space invaded, but it's not too much to ask is it?

 

[alonely]

i saw a video, cant find it now, where a white guy would dress in traditional clothes from various cultures, e.g. chinese. then he'd go into a city and ask random people if he was being offensive for wearing it, everyone said yes. then he'd go into e.g. chinatown with a lot of chinese people, and ask the same question, and they'd all say no and they loved what he was wearing.

 

[SexyIncél]

I just think it says a lot about a culture: if it's allergic to certain ideas until some Elvis Presley comes along & sells it to their irrational asses

It's like corporate monkeys shitting on an idea until a Big Mugwump says it. Then it's yessir, brilliant idea sir! [slurpy brown-nosing noises commence]

It's not so much about individual actions & shame, but social structures with bizarre properties

Regarding someone being disrespectful using some cultural symbol... I kind of don't care — unless it's part of an act of aggression. So if we're talking about the US & Iran... well, the US literally overthrew Iran's secular parliamentary democracy & installed the brutal Shah. So that's creepier than (say) a Lithuanian doing this

 

[brainwormz]

my father's Afro Caribbean. My mom is white. Those are my bona fides on the subject. Personally I don't believe cultural appropriation exists. I think it's just something pretend-woke people made up to dunk on people they don't like. Most of those people don't even realize it, but they're appropriating culture all the time. the same time is there trying to cancel somebody for wearing cornrows. They don't realize that their very diet is cultural. Appropriation on a daily basis. Unless you are Native American every tomato you eat is cultural appropriation. Being respectful of other peoples cultures is ideal. I think where cultural appropriation becomes a real cultural issue is when big corporations are using other peoples culture for cash grabs with no respect for it. Halloween costumes can be a touchy subject on that issue. honestly don't really have a fully formed opinion on that subject. someone else's ethnicity probably shouldn't be a costume. But then Halloween itself is cultural appropriation at its core. In general, the world would be a better place, if everybody could just be chill and respectful.