Venting Trauma therapist refused to work with me

[Jdieiejdjaow]

Mainly because I'm a sociopath so she started with saying there's a culture difference and a timezone difference etc. Despite working internationally with clients.

I just said "I understand you don't want to work with me" at which point she recognized it's not a good fit (from her perspective).

Did get an insight into my pain which seems it's chronic pain.

Seems my previous trauma therapist was right in that I've complex trauma.

1 more therapist to see for a session if she agrees to work with me.

Meanwhile I've reached out to a clinical and neuroforensic specialist to take the psychopathy hare test. Despite it being developed out of a very small population that doesn't represent me (incarcerated people), I'm still curious to see what I'll score.

And, had another unpleasant experience at the Lidl where I shop. It's sad to see the dissolution of healthy behavior when damaged people are in positions of power. The neurotypical shame based pro-social people don't realize what they give in when they just say "it's in our social hierarchical nature to be lead by sociopaths, psychopaths, narcissists and/or dark triads".

 

[EvisceratedJester]

First off, sociopath is not a diagnosis. It's considered to be outdated and nowadays professionals instead use Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD).

Secondly, who the fuck says

"it's in our social hierarchical nature to be lead by sociopaths, psychopaths, narcissists and/or dark triads".

?
I'm calling bullshit on that.

Thirdly, I feel like you are jumping to conclusions with no evidence. Nowhere did you mention anything that showed that her main reason for not having you as a client had to do with you being a "sociopath". This feels more like an assumption, tbh.

 

[Jdieiejdjaow]

First off, sociopath is not a diagnosis. It's considered to be outdated and nowadays professionals instead use Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD).

Secondly, who the fuck says

?
I'm calling bullshit on that.

Thirdly, I feel like you are jumping to conclusions with no evidence. Nowhere did you mention anything that showed that her main reason for not having you as a client had to do with you being a "sociopath". This feels more like an assumption, tbh.

Professionals also diagnose based on a very small population (incarcerated people), so while they've migrated sociopathy to secondary degree psychopathy and went with ASPD, this doesn't capture the entire population (which is a lot bigger than the people incarcerated).

Regarding what I said: it's true, neurotypical shame-based pro-social people see it normal (which is vast majority of people on this planet) to be ruled by sociopaths, psychopaths, narcissists and/or dark triads. It's why we have the politicians, CEOs, managers etc. that we have. Rarely you see healthy leadership. If the leadership doesn't fall into these categories, it's mostly unhealed people who have deep shame and are unwilling to heal their wounds in therapy. When was the last time you saw a politician promote therapy?

And no, I didn't jump to conclusions. I'm pretty good at reading people.

 

[steveholt]

Mainly because I'm a sociopath so she started with saying there's a culture difference and a timezone difference etc. Despite working internationally with clients.

I just said "I understand you don't want to work with me" at which point she recognized it's not a good fit (from her perspective).

Did get an insight into my pain which seems it's chronic pain.

Seems my previous trauma therapist was right in that I've complex trauma.

1 more therapist to see for a session if she agrees to work with me.

Meanwhile I've reached out to a clinical and neuroforensic specialist to take the psychopathy hare test. Despite it being developed out of a very small population that doesn't represent me (incarcerated people), I'm still curious to see what I'll score.

And, had another unpleasant experience at the Lidl where I shop. It's sad to see the dissolution of healthy behavior when damaged people are in positions of power. The neurotypical shame based pro-social people don't realize what they give in when they just say "it's in our social hierarchical nature to be lead by sociopaths, psychopaths, narcissists and/or dark triads".

Ive seen more therapist and support workers than ive had hot dinners .. some times it does take that time to find the right fit.. id look for a therapist that has not cone from some university with a ton of degrees but find some one who has .. gone through similar things or has been through recovery or trauma and come out the other side and have then learnt and eductated themselves... talk those guys they have been there, they actually understand ..

 

[Rymrgand]

When was the last time you saw a politician promote therapy?

Not sure what you mean with this. Basically all the politicians in my country promote therapy. Just a few weeks ago, my government released a new plan with new policies to improve the mental health part of our public healthcare.

 

[Jdieiejdjaow]

Ive seen more therapist and support workers than ive had hot dinners .. some times it does take that time to find the right fit.. id look for a therapist that has not cone from some university with a ton of degrees but find some one who has .. gone through similar things or has been through recovery or trauma and come out the other side and have then learnt and eductated themselves... talk those guys they have been there, they actually understand ..

Sorry to hear you had to go through a lot of therapists until you found the right fit. It's so frustrating when we have to become vulnerable again and again just to see it wasn't the right fit. Indeed the relationship with your therapist is critical. I guess what I'm looking for is someone with whom I connect but who also has the skill set to aid me in my recovery (at least to gain some insights into my pain which I did from this therapist as she said I've chronic pain).

Not sure what you mean with this. Basically all the politicians in my country promote therapy. Just a few weeks ago, my government released a new plan with new policies to improve the mental health part of our public healthcare.

It's one thing to promote because of popularity, it's a different thing to having done the work yourself. Is the new plan including complex trauma treatment and legislation to prevent C-PTSD?

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Professionals also diagnose based on a very small population (incarcerated people), so while they've migrated sociopathy to secondary degree psychopathy and went with ASPD, this doesn't capture the entire population (which is a lot bigger than the people incarcerated).

Regarding what I said: it's true, neurotypical shame-based pro-social people see it normal (which is vast majority of people on this planet) to be ruled by sociopaths, psychopaths, narcissists and/or dark triads. It's why we have the politicians, CEOs, managers etc. that we have. Rarely you see healthy leadership. If the leadership doesn't fall into these categories, it's mostly unhealed people who have deep shame and are unwilling to heal their wounds in therapy. When was the last time you saw a politician promote therapy?

And no, I didn't jump to conclusions. I'm pretty good at reading people.

First off, you are worst at reading people than you think. Everyone likes to think that they are good at reading people hut in most cases they are overestimating their own skills. You aren't them and thus unless you don't know why they didn't want you as a client.

Secondly, there are many studies on ASPD that aren't based on studying incarcerated individuals. This includes longitudinal studies looking at children with behavioural problems and following them into adulthood. While there are many studies on ASPD within incarcerated populations and while those studies have been used in creating the diagnostic criteria for ASPD there have also been community based studies that have been used as well. ASPD has actually been well-studied in community samples. Either way, I don't get the point in going over this since my main point is that sociopath isn't a diagnosis. It is not recognized as one. Generally, things like ASPD are used instead.

Thirdly, what does a politician promoting therapy have to do with anything? That's not even a good indicator that they score high in any of the three dark triad traits. Most people generally don't make the claims that you are making and most people, outside of those edgy online dumbasses who missed the entire point of American Psycho, aren't making claims like the one you made. In reality, the main reason why those who may score higher on traits like psychopathy or narcissism might be more likely to uptake leadership positions has to do with them being more likely to seek out those positions of power, to begin with. However, it is not because it is in our "social hierarchy nature", because the societies of our hunter-gatherer ancestors were likely not that hierarchical in structure. In reality, these social hierarchies that we see today are pretty new in the history of species. The way how most modern societies are structured in general is not natural.

 

[Jdieiejdjaow]

First off, you are worst at reading people than you think. Everyone likes to think that they are good at reading people hut in most cases they are overestimating their own skills. You aren't them and thus unless you don't know why they didn't want you as a client.

Secondly, there are many studies on ASPD that aren't based on studying incarcerated individuals. This includes longitudinal studies looking at children with behavioural problems and following them into adulthood. While there are many studies on ASPD within incarcerated populations and while those studies have been used in creating the diagnostic criteria for ASPD there have also been community based studies that have been used as well. ASPD has actually been well-studied in community samples. Either way, I don't get the point in going over this since my main point is that sociopath isn't a diagnosis. It is not recognized as one. Generally, things like ASPD are used instead.

Mm, no. I'm pretty good at reading people.

I'm a sociopath because I don't fall under ASPD, but I'm also not exhibiting so little traits that I'd be simply anti social. It just takes a lot to move me into behaviors that are unhealthy and sociopathic. My former therapist who had countertransference with me and who retraumatized me (because she isn't a trauma therapist), told me I'm antisocial/psychopath. She said that because she's following the new terminology, most probably. Though, I don't fall under these. Even if psychopathy is now seen as secondary degree psychopathy. I highly recommend the memoir "Sociopath" by Patric Gagne.

Thirdly, what does a politician promoting therapy have to do with anything? That's not even a good indicator that they score high in any of the three dark triad traits. Most people generally don't make the claims that you are making and most people, outside of those edgy online dumbasses who missed the entire point of American Psycho, aren't making claims like the one you made. In reality, the main reason why those who may score higher on traits like psychopathy or narcissism might be more likely to uptake leadership positions has to do with them being more likely to seek out those positions of power, to begin with. However, it is not because it is in our "social hierarchy nature", because the societies of our hunter-gatherer ancestors were likely not that hierarchical in structure. In reality, these social hierarchies that we see today are pretty new in the history of species. The way how most modern societies are structured in general is not natural.

A politician promoting therapy is a sign of healthiness in a society. 70 to 80% of people have an insecure type of attachment which means they engage in unhealthy behaviors. If one is a decent human being they'd understand the suffering involved (complex trauma, though not limited to it). This component is a MUST (it's not enough to simply look at the financial costs mental health brings).

It's a sign of leadership because once you understand these traits you understand they're damaging (unhealthy) and thus you want to keep out people who exhibit these traits from assuming highest office of power. This is done only through leadership, i.e. when pro-social people step into that role and assume power.

The system in the West, to quote Thich Nhat Hanh, is such that you are successful but not happy. This is one of the main reasons people choose to transition to the next stage of existence. Because damaged people create environments of complex trauma (i.e. where you can't resolve pain).