DetachedDreamer97
Enlightened
- Mar 17, 2018
- 1,402
Whenever we hear of suicide by plant poisons, many would shy away from it due to death being slow and painful. That is true; especially when it comes to cardiac glycosides such as digoxin, oleandrin, and cerberin. However, in toxicity/death reports, the people who've poisoned themselves with such things either from accidental overdose, self harm, or suicide, they've very much likely took it alone. And though there are some of us around here that added something to make it less agonizing, with little success, very few people have stopped to consider the mechanics behind the agents. However, ever since a cardenolide-based euthanasia cocktail has been established and has proven successful in Oregon, it sorta gave me a bit of insight. Each drug either potentiates the ideal effect (AV block/cardiac arrest), counteracts unwanted side effects (diarrhea, colic, and pain, etc...). One issue about DDMP is the accessibility and cost.
However, thanks to the knowledge I gained exploring alt.suicide.methods, I know of a way to improvise.
Part of the main concern with cardiac glycosides is that it increases parasympathetic tone due to the increase of intracellular calcium, which in turn mediates the release of muscarinic acetylcholine. While that's kinda part of what we want in terms of the reduction in heart rate and blood pressure, this is also what is responsible for gastrointestinal disturbances. So, we need a parasympatholytic (antimuscarinic) agent. We could use atropine as it would stop all the undesired effects, however, that would cancel out the bradycardia, hence reducing the chance of success. So the next best thing would appear to be scopolamine. It seems similarly effective in the peripheral nervous system, without it being too active on the heart, and more active on the central nervous system, producing sedation, amnesia, and is more potent as an antiemetic. Of all things, that' s the minimal requirement to make dying from cardenolides tolerable (at minimum). Also, an added benefit to scopolamine; at doses 1.2 mg and under, it'll paradoxically exacerbate the bradycardia of cardenolide poisoning. I'm unsure about the ideal dosage of scopolamine yet, but if I were to guess, between 0.4-1.0mg (or 10-25 seeds of datura inoxia). Take the dose 30 minutes beforehand.
Now that we have the main thing covered, the rest is non-essential, but will provide extra comfort and potentiate the lethality of digoxin. The following agents are herbs such as California Poppy, Incarvillea Sinensis, and Akuamma. In theory, they together might actually act as substitutes of morphine (analgesia, sedation, and gut motility inhibitor ), diazepam (anxiolytic, spasmolytic, and sedative), and propranolol (sympatholytic).
The first agent I'll bring up is incarvillea sinensis. Based on my newfound research, incarvillea would serve as an alternative to all agents, but primarily morphine, following propranolol. It's used as an antinociceptive that rivals the potency of morphine at 1.06-1.33 times the strength with a lesser ceiling effect, partially due to the activation of opioid receptors, however the other part is through the activation of adenosine. This brings me to the propranolol (and perhaps diazepam) part. Part of adenosine's ability besides blocking pain and sedation is its ability to block adrenaline (making it either anxiolytic or sympatholytic or both). This means that it will slow potentiates the bradycardic effect of scopolamine and digoxin. On another note, it may do very well in producing twilight sleep, perhaps even better than morphine as the activation of adenosine receptors are linked to memory deficits/amnesia.
Note: The other agents will also help with producing twilight sleep as they're both analgesic and sedative.
Next in line would be akuamma. Akuamma is also effective at controlling pain, though its analgesia is not quite as strong as incarvillea, but it's notable enough to be useful considering its strength is often compared with Vicodin/Norco and codeine, and the analgesia is due to the agonism of opioid receptors, which also means that besides analgesia , sedation, it'll act as a gut motility inhibitor. Meaning, it'll produce an additive effect on the already-mentioned agents such as scopolamine. As another bonus akuamma has sympatholytic properties, thanks to the alkaloid akuammigine, which like incarvillea sinensis and a low dosage of scopolamine, will serve as an alternative to propranolol and maybe diazepam as it's said to be anxiolytic and spasmolytic.
Last but not least, California poppy. California poppy has a reputation as a non-addictive alternative to opium poppy, though it's mild in potency in terms of analgesia. It's used as an anxiolytic, sedative and hypnotic. It also has spasmolytic properties that are useful for colic. So, this can also cover the effects of morphine and diazepam. However, to compare it to either would be a bit of a stretch. But combined with the two mentioned agents, plus scopolamine, it will be potentiated as they work synergistically. It also has potential beta-blocking effects.
With all this known, this combination might prove as effective as the real deal. However… one thing to consider is that you have to make sure you get the three agents from trusted sources. If you go cheap and buy something that's claimed to be potent, but turns out to be rubbish, things won't work out as you'd hope.
There's some things I might've left out, but I think I've covered the important pieces. Also there are some things I can't confirm; only speculate. So, take what I'm saying with a grain of salt and do your research.
Digoxin & Scopolamine
Incarvillea Sinensis & Adenosine
Akuamma
California Poppy
However, thanks to the knowledge I gained exploring alt.suicide.methods, I know of a way to improvise.
Part of the main concern with cardiac glycosides is that it increases parasympathetic tone due to the increase of intracellular calcium, which in turn mediates the release of muscarinic acetylcholine. While that's kinda part of what we want in terms of the reduction in heart rate and blood pressure, this is also what is responsible for gastrointestinal disturbances. So, we need a parasympatholytic (antimuscarinic) agent. We could use atropine as it would stop all the undesired effects, however, that would cancel out the bradycardia, hence reducing the chance of success. So the next best thing would appear to be scopolamine. It seems similarly effective in the peripheral nervous system, without it being too active on the heart, and more active on the central nervous system, producing sedation, amnesia, and is more potent as an antiemetic. Of all things, that' s the minimal requirement to make dying from cardenolides tolerable (at minimum). Also, an added benefit to scopolamine; at doses 1.2 mg and under, it'll paradoxically exacerbate the bradycardia of cardenolide poisoning. I'm unsure about the ideal dosage of scopolamine yet, but if I were to guess, between 0.4-1.0mg (or 10-25 seeds of datura inoxia). Take the dose 30 minutes beforehand.
Now that we have the main thing covered, the rest is non-essential, but will provide extra comfort and potentiate the lethality of digoxin. The following agents are herbs such as California Poppy, Incarvillea Sinensis, and Akuamma. In theory, they together might actually act as substitutes of morphine (analgesia, sedation, and gut motility inhibitor ), diazepam (anxiolytic, spasmolytic, and sedative), and propranolol (sympatholytic).
The first agent I'll bring up is incarvillea sinensis. Based on my newfound research, incarvillea would serve as an alternative to all agents, but primarily morphine, following propranolol. It's used as an antinociceptive that rivals the potency of morphine at 1.06-1.33 times the strength with a lesser ceiling effect, partially due to the activation of opioid receptors, however the other part is through the activation of adenosine. This brings me to the propranolol (and perhaps diazepam) part. Part of adenosine's ability besides blocking pain and sedation is its ability to block adrenaline (making it either anxiolytic or sympatholytic or both). This means that it will slow potentiates the bradycardic effect of scopolamine and digoxin. On another note, it may do very well in producing twilight sleep, perhaps even better than morphine as the activation of adenosine receptors are linked to memory deficits/amnesia.
Note: The other agents will also help with producing twilight sleep as they're both analgesic and sedative.
Next in line would be akuamma. Akuamma is also effective at controlling pain, though its analgesia is not quite as strong as incarvillea, but it's notable enough to be useful considering its strength is often compared with Vicodin/Norco and codeine, and the analgesia is due to the agonism of opioid receptors, which also means that besides analgesia , sedation, it'll act as a gut motility inhibitor. Meaning, it'll produce an additive effect on the already-mentioned agents such as scopolamine. As another bonus akuamma has sympatholytic properties, thanks to the alkaloid akuammigine, which like incarvillea sinensis and a low dosage of scopolamine, will serve as an alternative to propranolol and maybe diazepam as it's said to be anxiolytic and spasmolytic.
Last but not least, California poppy. California poppy has a reputation as a non-addictive alternative to opium poppy, though it's mild in potency in terms of analgesia. It's used as an anxiolytic, sedative and hypnotic. It also has spasmolytic properties that are useful for colic. So, this can also cover the effects of morphine and diazepam. However, to compare it to either would be a bit of a stretch. But combined with the two mentioned agents, plus scopolamine, it will be potentiated as they work synergistically. It also has potential beta-blocking effects.
With all this known, this combination might prove as effective as the real deal. However… one thing to consider is that you have to make sure you get the three agents from trusted sources. If you go cheap and buy something that's claimed to be potent, but turns out to be rubbish, things won't work out as you'd hope.
There's some things I might've left out, but I think I've covered the important pieces. Also there are some things I can't confirm; only speculate. So, take what I'm saying with a grain of salt and do your research.
Digoxin & Scopolamine
- Digoxin - an overview
- Digoxin Toxicity • LITFL • CCC Toxicology
- THE EMETIC ACTION OF THE DIGITALIS BODIES
- The Effect of Autoantibody against M2-Muscarinic Acetylcholine Receptor in Heart Failure Patients on Digoxin Treatment
- Cardiac Glycosides
- The effects of transdermal scopolamine and four dose levels of oral scopolamine (0.15, 0.3, 0.6, and 1.2 mg) upon psychological
- Datura FAQ
Incarvillea Sinensis & Adenosine
- Antinociceptive effects of incarvillateine, a monoterpene alkaloid from Incarvillea sinensis, and possible involvement of the adenosine system
- Pharmacological study on the novel antinociceptive agent, a novel monoterpene alkaloid from Incarvillea sinensis
- Strong antinociceptive effect of incarvillateine, a novel monoterpene alkaloid from Incarvillea sinensis
- Analgesic agent
- Adenosine - StatPearls
- Adenosine causes bradycardia in pacing-induced cardiac failure.
- Adenosine A2A receptors are necessary and sufficient to trigger memory impairment in adult mice
- Twilight Sleep
Akuamma
- Akuamma seed powder report (Picralima nitida): kratom
- Experience Report - - Akuamma Seeds / Picralima nitida Experience report
- Got my Akuamma seeds in today. Effective, but without legs.: kratom
- Best Alternatives to Kratom and their Effects - Kratomguides.com
- Effects of Akuamma Seeds - Positive and Negative
- Everything You Need to Know About Akuamma
- Suppression
- Opioid activity of alkaloids extracted from Picralima nitida (fam. Apocynaceae)
- AKUAMMIGINE
- ALKALOIDS OF PICRALIMA NITIDA
California Poppy
- Concentrated Decoction: An Experience with Poppies - California
- Misc - California Poppy Alkaloids
- Misc - California Poppy (Eschscholzia californica)
- Not What I Expected: An Experience with Poppies - California
- Neurophysiological effects of an extract of Eschscholzia californica Cham. (Papaveraceae)
- Eschscholzia californica Supplement — Health Benefits, Dosage, Side Effects
- Californian Poppy
- Veterinary Herbal Medicine By Susan G. Wynn, DVM, Barbara Fougere - California Poppy
- The Benefits of California Poppy (Eschscholzia californica)
- California Poppy (Eschscholzia californica) | LONE PINE
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