Method Using tetrafluoroethane for CTB?

[djel]

I was wondering if huffing enough tetrafluoroethane (the gas in dust blaster) be used for CTB as it says that inhaling this can cause heart attacks and also I wanted to know how painful this method was

 

[Unspoken7612]

I strongly wouldn't recommend. It's an unreliable way of causing a heart attack, and inducing a heart attack is an unreliable way of committing suicide. A large enough volume would be sufficient for reliable asphyxiation, but inert gases like nitrogen are better-studied and easier to acquire in bulk.

 

[kingfool316]

Heart attacks are not pleasant

 

[Rev346]

You may die if somebody shoots you when you're high on the stuff. There was a show about a guy addicted to it, Intervention maybe? He went crazy when he was on it. His grandma had to lock herself in her room because she was so scared of him.

 

[LunarLight]

First time I've ever heard of such a method - and, after a quick research, it seems like it wasn't tackled oftentimes.

 

[Intoxicated]

I was wondering if huffing enough tetrafluoroethane (the gas in dust blaster) be used for CTB as it says that inhaling this can cause heart attacks and also I wanted to know how painful this method was

Huffing can be effectively used to mitigate discomfort with other methods like drowning or full-suspension hanging, but the odds of dying from it directly are rather small. If you release tetrafluoroethane into a large plastic bag, then hyperventilate, put your head inside and seal the bag, this may work similarly to the famous exit bag. You need to ensure that tetrafluoroethane is not mixed with a bitterant though, otherwise your experience with the mixture may be rather unpleasant.

 

[curiousbeing]

Huffing can be effectively used to mitigate discomfort with other methods like drowning or full-suspension hanging, but the odds of dying from it directly are rather small. If you release tetrafluoroethane into a large plastic bag, then hyperventilate, put your head inside and seal the bag, this may work similarly to the famous exit bag. You need to ensure that tetrafluoroethane is not mixed with a bitterant though, otherwise your experience with the mixture may be rather unpleasant.

Your reply is very useful for me. Can I do this with deodorant that contains butane during drowning? Thanks so much if you reply

Deodorant I found doesn't contain bitterants, I mean I can huff it as much as I can

Huffing can be effectively used to mitigate discomfort with other methods like drowning or full-suspension hanging, but the odds of dying from it directly are rather small. If you release tetrafluoroethane into a large plastic bag, then hyperventilate, put your head inside and seal the bag, this may work similarly to the famous exit bag. You need to ensure that tetrafluoroethane is not mixed with a bitterant though, otherwise your experience with the mixture may be rather unpleasant.

It contains butane, isobutane, propane, alcohol denat, parfum, cyclopentasiloxane, isopropyl myristate, linalool, limonene, citronellol, citral

 

[Intoxicated]

Deodorant I found doesn't contain bitterants, I mean I can huff it as much as I can

It contains butane, isobutane, propane, alcohol denat, parfum, cyclopentasiloxane, isopropyl myristate, linalool, limonene, citronellol, citral

That doesn't look like a good substitute for tetrafluoroethane due to presence of parfume and denatured alcohol which may be irritating. If you don't find that mixture too irritating, it probably could work then.

I'd recommend to search for common refrigerants on the market. For example, tetrafluoroethane can be sold as R-134a, R134a, HFC-134a, HFC134a, HFA-134a, HFA 134a, and others.

Here are some examples of refrigerants suitable for asphyxiation:

R-22 / HCFC-22 (chlorodifluoromethane)
R-32 / HFC-32 (difluoromethane)
R-125 / HFC-125 (pentafluoroethane)
R-134a / HFC-134a (1,1,1,2-tetrafluoroethane)
R-143a / HFC-143a (1,1,1-trifluoroethane)
R-152a / HFC-152a (1,1-difluoroethane)
R-404a / HFC-404a (R-125 + R-143a + R-134a)
R-407c / HFC-407c (R-32 + R-125 + R-134a)
R-410a / HFC-410a (R-32 + R-125)
R-507a / HFC-507a (R-125 + R-143a)

 

[maniac116]

Totally unreliable & high probability of physical or mental disability & further suffering.
Even if effective, a heart attack is very painful & distressing & not likely fatal.

 

[curiousbeing]

That doesn't look like a good substitute for tetrafluoroethane due to presence of parfume and denatured alcohol which may be irritating. If you don't find that mixture too irritating, it probably could work then.

I'd recommend to search for common refrigerants on the market. For example, tetrafluoroethane can be sold as R-134a, R134a, HFC-134a, HFC134a, HFA-134a, HFA 134a, and others.

Here are some examples of refrigerants suitable for asphyxiation:

R-22 / HCFC-22 (chlorodifluoromethane)
R-32 / HFC-32 (difluoromethane)
R-125 / HFC-125 (pentafluoroethane)
R-134a / HFC-134a (1,1,1,2-tetrafluoroethane)
R-143a / HFC-143a (1,1,1-trifluoroethane)
R-152a / HFC-152a (1,1-difluoroethane)
R-404a / HFC-404a (R-125 + R-143a + R-134a)
R-407c / HFC-407c (R-32 + R-125 + R-134a)
R-410a / HFC-410a (R-32 + R-125)
R-507a / HFC-507a (R-125 + R-143a)

First of all, Thank you so much for replying to me. It seems you edited your message to include their names as well. You took your time to write this message, thank you. I really mean this. In my entire life, very few people took me seriously, although I was always serious. Thank you for replying to me.

I will try to look for them, if my social anxiety allows me to talk with people. My main problem is my severe social anxiety. And also because I am underweight and tall, every person thinks I am probably 17. I am 28. I was bullied / made fun of because of my weight so i developed severe social anxiety.

Otherwise, I will drown myself by hyperventilating, holding my breath for 2 minutes after hyperventilating and only after doing them, spraying deodorant onto napkins and inhaling napkins, while my nose is plugged. After inhaling them, for, say, 30 seconds, I stop breathing at all to make sure no oxygen enters my body at all and butane I inhaled replaces oxygen. I try to hold my breath as much as possible, like 40 seconds. If I don't get dizzy/faint at all, I repeat this procedure again.

I won't be able to use plastic bag, so I think spraying onto napkins and putting them inside my mouth to kinda inhale / suck them while nose is also plugged, will help?

I have searched for and read your past forum posts to learn as much as I can, without taking your replying to me for granted and asking you, say, 363 questions.

That doesn't look like a good substitute for tetrafluoroethane due to presence of parfume and denatured alcohol which may be irritating. If you don't find that mixture too irritating, it probably could work then.

I'd recommend to search for common refrigerants on the market. For example, tetrafluoroethane can be sold as R-134a, R134a, HFC-134a, HFC134a, HFA-134a, HFA 134a, and others.

Here are some examples of refrigerants suitable for asphyxiation:

R-22 / HCFC-22 (chlorodifluoromethane)
R-32 / HFC-32 (difluoromethane)
R-125 / HFC-125 (pentafluoroethane)
R-134a / HFC-134a (1,1,1,2-tetrafluoroethane)
R-143a / HFC-143a (1,1,1-trifluoroethane)
R-152a / HFC-152a (1,1-difluoroethane)
R-404a / HFC-404a (R-125 + R-143a + R-134a)
R-407c / HFC-407c (R-32 + R-125 + R-134a)
R-410a / HFC-410a (R-32 + R-125)
R-507a / HFC-507a (R-125 + R-143a)

I will feel very grateful if you again take your time to reply to me. Thanks so much.

Totally unreliable & high probability of physical or mental disability & further suffering.
Even if effective, a heart attack is very painful & distressing & not likely fatal.

I was aware of side effects, but I didn't know it was this serious.

Well, I will combine this huffing with drowning itself. Its severe side effects, combined with drowning itself, will help me lose my consciousness faster, so I won't experience drowning. And even if I wake up somehow during drowning, it won't be for too long. It will both quicken time for drowning AND its side effects will add to effects of hypothermia and drowning.

I don't know, maybe hypothermia itself can also cause heart attack?

That doesn't look like a good substitute for tetrafluoroethane due to presence of parfume and denatured alcohol which may be irritating. If you don't find that mixture too irritating, it probably could work then.

I'd recommend to search for common refrigerants on the market. For example, tetrafluoroethane can be sold as R-134a, R134a, HFC-134a, HFC134a, HFA-134a, HFA 134a, and others.

Here are some examples of refrigerants suitable for asphyxiation:

R-22 / HCFC-22 (chlorodifluoromethane)
R-32 / HFC-32 (difluoromethane)
R-125 / HFC-125 (pentafluoroethane)
R-134a / HFC-134a (1,1,1,2-tetrafluoroethane)
R-143a / HFC-143a (1,1,1-trifluoroethane)
R-152a / HFC-152a (1,1-difluoroethane)
R-404a / HFC-404a (R-125 + R-143a + R-134a)
R-407c / HFC-407c (R-32 + R-125 + R-134a)
R-410a / HFC-410a (R-32 + R-125)
R-507a / HFC-507a (R-125 + R-143a)

I forgot to add, hypothermia itself can induce cardiac arrest. I read in this forum that one person literally stopped breathing when he was in contact with cold water, although he always swam in cold water.

So, maybe before/during I inhale deodorant, I will have experienced cardiac arrest due to cold shock? This is another possibility

 

[Intoxicated]

I will try to look for them, if my social anxiety allows me to talk with people. My main problem is my severe social anxiety.

There is probably no need in talking much if you order such chemicals online.

I won't be able to use plastic bag, so I think spraying onto napkins and putting them inside my mouth to kinda inhale / suck them while nose is also plugged, will help?

Well, you have to make sure that your napkins aren't airtight or nearly such ))
Also note that butane and isobutane have a relatively high boiling point, -0.5 C and -11.7 C respectively. If you try to use these substances at low temperatures during cold winter, partial pressure of their gaseous form can be very low. The temperature of the mixture will decrease more and more upon evaporating, that may cause some troubles with inhaling it due to unpleasant cold and insufficient pressure.

I don't know, maybe hypothermia itself can also cause heart attack?

That's probably possible, but I wouldn't count on that.

 

[curiousbeing]

There is probably no need in talking much if you order such chemicals online.

Well, you have to make sure that your napkins aren't airtight or nearly such ))
Also note that butane and isobutane have a relatively high boiling point, -0.5 C and -11.7 C respectively. If you try to use these substances at low temperatures during cold winter, partial pressure of their gaseous form can be very low. The temperature of the mixture will decrease more and more upon evaporating, that may cause some troubles with inhaling it due to unpleasant cold and insufficient pressure.

That's probably possible, but I wouldn't count on that.

Thanks for your reply.

Thanks for mentioning it. After reading your reply, I thought.... I will use socks

Right now temperature is between 5-12C. Is it good enough? I understand now why they shouldn't boil. If they boil, they turn into liquid and liquid butane won't cause asphyxiation. What's minimum air temperature I must aim for? For example, can I do it on 2C air temperature? Or 5 Celsius is needed? I guess any temperature higher than boiling point is enough? Like anything more than 0C?

In order to avoid frostbite, I will enter sea when temperature is above freezing point, so anything above 0C is ok for me. Probably I will aim for 2C air temperature. Is it okay?

I searched and I found anti-air duster but its description openly state that "Contains no chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs), huffs/inhalants, propane, and the can is recyclable when empty. A bittering agent has also been added to discourage inhalant abuse and ingestion". Lol, My deodorant is better than that!

There is probably no need in talking much if you order such chemicals online.

Well, you have to make sure that your napkins aren't airtight or nearly such ))
Also note that butane and isobutane have a relatively high boiling point, -0.5 C and -11.7 C respectively. If you try to use these substances at low temperatures during cold winter, partial pressure of their gaseous form can be very low. The temperature of the mixture will decrease more and more upon evaporating, that may cause some troubles with inhaling it due to unpleasant cold and insufficient pressure.

That's probably possible, but I wouldn't count on that.

I am glad I researched on my own today and read your reply before doing anything. I would fail very bad simply because napkins prevented inhalation!! Thanks for pointing out my mistake

I will slightly open my mouth (my mouth facing ground), cover it with socks and spray onto socks upwards. And inhale sprayed socks

There is probably no need in talking much if you order such chemicals online.

Well, you have to make sure that your napkins aren't airtight or nearly such ))
Also note that butane and isobutane have a relatively high boiling point, -0.5 C and -11.7 C respectively. If you try to use these substances at low temperatures during cold winter, partial pressure of their gaseous form can be very low. The temperature of the mixture will decrease more and more upon evaporating, that may cause some troubles with inhaling it due to unpleasant cold and insufficient pressure.

That's probably possible, but I wouldn't count on that.

I won't be able to use plastic bag, so I hope, say, after spraying 10 times and inhaling sprays, holding my breath to prevent oxygen entering will be enough. Unfortunately, during spraying some oxygen will enter my mouth. Can this cause a problem?

Thanks for your reply.

Thanks for mentioning it. After reading your reply, I thought.... I will use socks

Right now temperature is between 5-12C. Is it good enough? I understand now why they shouldn't boil. If they boil, they turn into liquid and liquid butane won't cause asphyxiation. What's minimum air temperature I must aim for? For example, can I do it on 2C air temperature? Or 5 Celsius is needed? I guess any temperature higher than boiling point is enough? Like anything more than 0C?

In order to avoid frostbite, I will enter sea when temperature is above freezing point, so anything above 0C is ok for me. Probably I will aim for 2C air temperature. Is it okay?

I searched and I found anti-air duster but its description openly state that "Contains no chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs), huffs/inhalants, propane, and the can is recyclable when empty. A bittering agent has also been added to discourage inhalant abuse and ingestion". Lol, My deodorant is better than that!

I am glad I researched on my own today and read your reply before doing anything. I would fail very bad simply because napkins prevented inhalation!! Thanks for pointing out my mistake

I will slightly open my mouth (my mouth facing ground), cover it with socks and spray onto socks upwards. And inhale sprayed socks

I won't be able to use plastic bag, so I hope, say, after spraying 10 times and inhaling sprays, holding my breath to prevent oxygen entering will be enough. Unfortunately, during spraying some oxygen will enter my mouth. Can this cause a problem?

Why? Because if i use a plastic bag, i won't be able to spray inside plastic bag.

But I can spray, say, 20 times to socks, put socks either inside my mouth or inside plastic bag and close my mouth / secure the plastic bag as hard as I can. Can I do this?

I fear that if I simply spray onto socks 20 times and put socks inside my mouth immediately, socks will contact with saliva and it will reduce effects of deodorant gasses. I am not knowledgeable in chemistry, I am so sorry if my words sound very stupid.

 

[Intoxicated]

Right now temperature is between 5-12C. Is it good enough? I understand now why they shouldn't boil. If they boil, they turn into liquid and liquid butane won't cause asphyxiation.

Not exactly...
Boiling = turning a liquid into a gas
Condensation = turning a gas into a liquid

Boiling point is the same as condensation point though - it's the temperature of transition between the two aggregate states.

What's minimum air temperature I must aim for? For example, can I do it on 2C air temperature? Or 5 Celsius is needed? I guess any temperature higher than boiling point is enough? Like anything more than 0C?

Boiling results in lowering the temperature of the remaining liquid, so it can approach the condensation point even when the environmental air temperature is noticeably higher. The difference between -0.5 C and +5 C is quite small, so butane's partial pressure may become weak quickly even at +5 C. Propane and isobutane have smaller condensation points, so they'd probably continue to work. Anyway, the smaller environmental temperature is, the smaller pressure you get.

I searched and I found anti-air duster but its description openly state that "Contains no chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs), huffs/inhalants, propane, and the can is recyclable when empty. A bittering agent has also been added to discourage inhalant abuse and ingestion". Lol, My deodorant is better than that!

Air dusters is not the only form of HFCs available on the market. I'd recommend to look for refrigerants like this

But I can spray, say, 20 times to socks, put socks either inside my mouth or inside plastic bag and close my mouth / secure the plastic bag as hard as I can. Can I do this?

That won't work. Useful gases will dissipate in atmosphere long before you put the socks inside your mouth. The reasonable purpose of cloth filter is to prevent liquids coming into the mouth rather than serve as a temporary storage for gases.

 

[curiousbeing]

Not exactly...
Boiling = turning a liquid into a gas
Condensation = turning a gas into a liquid

Boiling point is the same as condensation point though - it's the temperature of transition between the two aggregate states.

Boiling results in lowering the temperature of the remaining liquid, so it can approach the condensation point even when the environmental air temperature is noticeably higher. The difference between -0.5 C and +5 C is quite small, so butane's partial pressure may become weak quickly even at +5 C. Propane and isobutane have smaller condensation points, so they'd probably continue to work. Anyway, the smaller environmental temperature is, the smaller pressure you get.

Air dusters is not the only form of HFCs available on the market. I'd recommend to look for refrigerants like this

View attachment 156042

That won't work. Useful gases will dissipate in atmosphere long before you put the socks inside your mouth. The reasonable purpose of cloth filter is to prevent liquids coming into the mouth rather than serve as a temporary storage for gases.

I finally understood your points and searched for freon gasses. I found that in my country, they are sold mainly as 11kg form balon, priced about $150 (R134a is mainly sold) Very expensive.

But I found one shop that sells



800 gram, brand SHİNGCHEM.

Can I buy this?
I have to search for the ones whose weight are below 1KG to be able to afford buying
it seems in Russian they are called хладагент.


I found a local shop that sells R-410A 800gr. I can simply visit and buy them, no need to order online. I will probably feel very happy so I can overcome my anxiety, go and buy it


I am browsing other shops that have a website, most of them sell R-134A 11kg, priced 150$.


I asked Chat Gpt about boiling point of those refrigerants, here is its reply:

Here are the boiling points of the listed refrigerants under standard atmospheric pressure (1 atm):

1. R-22 (HCFC-22 / Chlorodifluoromethane): -40.8°C (-41.4°F)
2. R-32 (HFC-32 / Difluoromethane): -51.7°C (-61.1°F)
3. R-125 (HFC-125 / Pentafluoroethane): -48.1°C (-54.6°F)
4. R-134a (HFC-134a / 1,1,1,2-Tetrafluoroethane): -26.3°C (-15.3°F)
5. R-143a (HFC-143a / 1,1,1-Trifluoroethane): -47.2°C (-53.0°F)
6. R-152a (HFC-152a / 1,1-Difluoroethane): -24.0°C (-11.2°F)
7. R-404A (HFC-404A / R-125 + R-143a + R-134a): Azeotropic blend; boiling point varies, approx. -46.5°C (-51.7°F)
8. R-407C (HFC-407C / R-32 + R-125 + R-134a): Zeotropic blend; boiling point range approx. -43.6°C to -36.8°C (-46.5°F to -34.2°F)
9. R-410A (HFC-410A / R-32 + R-125): Near-azeotropic blend; boiling point approx. -51.4°C (-60.5°F)
10. R-507A (HFC-507A / R-125 + R-143a): Near-azeotropic blend; boiling point approx. -46.7°C (-52.1°F)

It seems ALL of them have very low boiling point, so I can use whichever one I buy. At winter, maximum cold temperature here is -3C. The highest boiling point I can see is: R-152a (HFC-152a / 1,1-Difluoroethane) -24.0°C. So, any of them will be useful.

So, all I need is to go, browse whichever one they sell in the form of 800gr balloon, and buy that balloon? IS there something else I should buy? Just 800 gr balloon of one of them is enough?

Well, I asked ChatGpt which one of them is the most deadly, here is its answer:

The toxicity of refrigerants can vary, but the deadliest refrigerants to inhale are those that produce harmful decomposition products when exposed to heat or flame or those that displace oxygen in enclosed spaces. Here's a breakdown:

Most Deadly Refrigerant (General Context):

• R-22 (HCFC-22) and other chlorinated refrigerants have higher acute toxicity compared to HFC refrigerants. Inhalation of high concentrations can cause cardiac arrhythmias, dizziness, and in severe cases, death due to asphyxiation or chemical toxicity.
• When decomposed by heat or fire, refrigerants like R-22 can release phosgene gas, which is highly toxic and potentially fatal even in small amounts.

Factors Increasing Danger:

1. Flammability: Some refrigerants (e.g., R-32 and R-152a) are flammable and may cause fire hazards in addition to inhalation risks.
2. Decomposition Products: Most refrigerants, including R-32, R-125, R-134a, R-404A, R-407C, R-410A, and R-507A, can produce toxic gases such as hydrogen fluoride (HF) and carbonyl fluoride when exposed to heat.
3. Asphyxiation Risk: In confined spaces, heavier-than-air refrigerants can displace oxygen, leading to suffocation rather than direct toxicity.

Specific Toxicity:

• HCFC-22 (R-22): Considered the most dangerous in terms of acute toxicity due to both its chemical nature and the potential to form highly toxic breakdown products.
• HFC Refrigerants (R-32, R-125, R-134a, R-143a, R-152a, and blends): Generally less acutely toxic than R-22 but can still be dangerous in high concentrations or if exposed to flame.

Summary:

• Most Deadly (Toxicity): R-22
• Most Deadly (In Fire): Any refrigerant, as they produce toxic decomposition products like phosgene or HF.
• Safest (Relatively): HFC refrigerants such as R-134a and R-152a have lower inherent toxicity but are not without risk.

For any refrigerant exposure, seek fresh air immediately and contact emergency services if symptoms like dizziness, nausea, or difficulty breathing occur. Always handle refrigerants with proper safety precautions and ventilation.

Thanks so much again, for your replies. I am so close to relatively painless ctb

 

[curiousbeing]

Not exactly...
Boiling = turning a liquid into a gas
Condensation = turning a gas into a liquid

Boiling point is the same as condensation point though - it's the temperature of transition between the two aggregate states.

Boiling results in lowering the temperature of the remaining liquid, so it can approach the condensation point even when the environmental air temperature is noticeably higher. The difference between -0.5 C and +5 C is quite small, so butane's partial pressure may become weak quickly even at +5 C. Propane and isobutane have smaller condensation points, so they'd probably continue to work. Anyway, the smaller environmental temperature is, the smaller pressure you get.

Air dusters is not the only form of HFCs available on the market. I'd recommend to look for refrigerants like this

View attachment 156042

That won't work. Useful gases will dissipate in atmosphere long before you put the socks inside your mouth. The reasonable purpose of cloth filter is to prevent liquids coming into the mouth rather than serve as a temporary storage for gases.

It seems R-22 is the most deadly, dense one, but R-152a causes the most strong euphoria among other refrigerants. R-22 takes 2 minutes, while R-152a takes 5-15 minutes to kill a person. R-152a is less dense than R-22, so it disperses more quickly in the air, reducing the risk of asphyxiation in open or ventilated spaces.

I talked with chatgpt. It seems that In confined space like inside a plastic bag, both propellants and R-152a become dangerous, as their concentration in air increases.
Here is chat gpt answer

• Reduced Vapor Pressure: While propane and isobutane will vaporize easily, butane's vaporization rate will slow down as the room temperature is only slightly above its boiling point.

Still, i think, inside plastic bag, even lesser, weaker butane will still concentrate and become deadly. I can simply open a small hole for deodorant / r152a balloon to spray inside. Deodorant can / 152a will block hole as long as i can hold them and spray. But after i lose my consciousness and fall into sea, they will fall from my hand, hole in the bag which they blocked will be opened, fresh air will enter inside bag. By then I will already be drowning though, inside sea

Or, as I see I am becoming dizzy, i can quickly stop spraying, duct tape small opening of plastic bag and inhale deodorant/152a air inside bag

• Inhalation Effectiveness: The lower vapor pressure at 10°C means that butane may not reach as high a concentration in the air as it would at higher temperatures, slightly reducing its intoxicating effects.

However, deodorant sprays release these gases under pressure, forcing them to aerosolize regardless of the room temperature, so there will still be enough gas to cause an effect if inhaled

R-152a is more professional and deadly with mild euphoria, but when it comes to euphoria feeling, butane / deodorant spray creates more strong euphoria. So I don't know which one should I choose: more deadly R-152a or more euphoric, more cold temperature influenced deodorant spray?
I hope my reasoning and ChatGpt answers are correct

 

[Battered_Seoul]

Is flammability a serious concern?

I was researching difluoroethane and became slightly worried that static electricity sparks from a bag could ignite it which would obviously be far from ideal if your head was inside.

 

[curiousbeing]

It seems R-22 is the most deadly, dense one, but R-152a causes the most strong euphoria among other refrigerants. R-22 takes 2 minutes, while R-152a takes 5-15 minutes to kill a person. R-152a is less dense than R-22, so it disperses more quickly in the air, reducing the risk of asphyxiation in open or ventilated spaces.

I talked with chatgpt. It seems that In confined space like inside a plastic bag, both propellants and R-152a become dangerous, as their concentration in air increases.
Here is chat gpt answer

Still, i think, inside plastic bag, even lesser, weaker butane will still concentrate and become deadly. I can simply open a small hole for deodorant / r152a balloon to spray inside. Deodorant can / 152a will block hole as long as i can hold them and spray. But after i lose my consciousness and fall into sea, they will fall from my hand, hole in the bag which they blocked will be opened, fresh air will enter inside bag. By then I will already be drowning though, inside sea

Or, as I see I am becoming dizzy, i can quickly stop spraying, duct tape small opening of plastic bag and inhale deodorant/152a air inside bag



R-152a is more professional and deadly with mild euphoria, but when it comes to euphoria feeling, butane / deodorant spray creates more strong euphoria. So I don't know which one should I choose: more deadly R-152a or more euphoric, more cold temperature influenced deodorant spray?
I hope my reasoning and ChatGpt answers are correct

UPDATE:

i contacted a few shops. They only sell 13kg R-134a balloon, made in China. I hope its quality will be good enough.

I found one shop that sells R-134 (they simply said r-134, I hope r-134 and r-134a the same thing) in 1kg balloon.

Is 1kg enough?

Assuming I am correct so far, Now I am searching for a way to create an environment where I can breathe this gas. My initial, primitive idea is that I can cover my head with a plastic bag, make a small hole on plastic bag, insert hose through this hole to plastic bag and open valve. After one minute, close valve / gas supply, so too much gas won't explode / tear apart plastic bag.

I don't know, maybe I can cover my face with some cubicle form, big, deep (5 cm height) plastic dish, make a hole on bottom of plastic dish, tie this plastic dish to my head using a rope, and then, cover my whole head and dish in a plastic bag. Then, insert fuse through hole on plastic bag, through hole on plastic dish, open valve.

But I don't know, if I lose my consciousness, I hope fuse won't be slipped and removed from dish and plastic bag. IDK how to keep it inside after I lose my consciousness. If fuse remains inside dish, it will also block the hole I inserted it through, so no oxygen will enter.

Is flammability a serious concern?

I was researching difluoroethane and became slightly worried that static electricity sparks from a bag could ignite it which would obviously be far from ideal if your head was inside.

Here, I could only find R-134a. Thank you for pointing this out. I will wait for @Intoxicated reply

But if I choose to use a deodorant, I will spray it as much as possible to socks, plug my nose, tie clothes/socks to my open mouth. Clothes will prevent air from entering mouth and odors from socks will directly enter my mouth. Is this correct?

 

[Intoxicated]

So, all I need is to go, browse whichever one they sell in the form of 800gr balloon, and buy that balloon?

If your goal is to lose consciousness right before submerging in water, that should be enough.

IS there something else I should buy? Just 800 gr balloon of one of them is enough?

If the cylinder has a pipe with a valve that allow you to release the gas easily, that can be enough. If it doesn't have anything like that, you may need to purchase such things in order to be able to inhale the gas conveniently.

R-152a is less dense than R-22, so it disperses more quickly in the air, reducing the risk of asphyxiation in open or ventilated spaces.

You don't need to disperse the gas around you or burn it, it's supposed to be inhaled either straight from the cylinder (through a pipe or a hose) or from a latex balloon filled with the gas from the cylinder. A latex balloon can be suitable if you choose drowning in a place where you can stay or sit, otherwise it may be difficult to carry.

A smaller density of a gas is not necessarily a disadvantage, since it implies a bigger volume of gas per equal weight.

I found one shop that sells R-134 (they simply said r-134, I hope r-134 and r-134a the same thing) in 1kg balloon.

Is 1kg enough?

Yes, it's enough for a CTB attempt. However, if you're going to make lots of tests with it before CTB, it makes sense to buy two cylinders - one for testing purposes and another one for CTB.

 

[curiousbeing]

If your goal is to lose consciousness right before submerging in water, that should be enough.

If the cylinder has a pipe with a valve that allow you to release the gas easily, that can be enough. If it doesn't have anything like that, you may need to purchase such things in order to be able to inhale the gas conveniently.

You don't need to disperse the gas around you or burn it, it's supposed to be inhaled either straight from the cylinder (through a pipe or a hose) or from a latex balloon filled with the gas from the cylinder. A latex balloon can be suitable if you choose drowning in a place where you can stay or sit, otherwise it may be difficult to carry.

A smaller density of a gas is not necessarily a disadvantage, since it implies a bigger volume of gas per equal weight.

Yes, it's enough for a CTB attempt. However, if you're going to make lots of tests with it before CTB, it makes sense to buy two cylinders - one for testing purposes and another one for CTB.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!! No one can really understand how much grateful I am for your replies. Thanks to reading your informative replies and researching on my own, I am finally free of methods such as cutting, choking myself, holding out my breath. For already a few days, I asked questions, lots of questions and you answered with clear, informative replies.

If the cylinder has a pipe with a valve that allow you to release the gas easily, that can be enough. If it doesn't have anything like that, you may need to purchase such things in order to be able to inhale the gas conveniently.

I will need to buy valve to open/close gas release, and hose / pipe to breathe gas straight from balloon, if they need to be bought separately. I don't plan on making tests, I want to ctb, so I will buy only one 1kg balloon or maybe one 2kg balloon. No second balloon

If your goal is to lose consciousness right before submerging in water, that should be enough.

My goal is to lose consciousness inside sea faster. I can't wait until an unknown amount of time passes so hypothermia knocks me down in very cold air. Some people say that cardiac arrest will be very fast after entering sea, for some it's 15/45/60/120/180 minutes depending on weather temperature, health and tolerance to cold. Some people are even found alive after 30 mins of drowning because cold hypothermia slowed down destructive processes in the body. Inhaling Refrigerant is much faster to lose consciousness.

I don't want to use refrigerants as main method. They are perfect for combining with drowning method, in my opinion. Why? Because Even if inhaling them on their own is effective enough, combining them with drowning and hypothermia at cold winter night will significantly raise probability of ctb, me not found easily, harmful gasses won't hurt anyone else (better than inhaling them at home, losing consciousness, pipe coming out of my mouth and releasing all remaining gas to room, etc)

But, I am curious, if my method was solely inhaling R-134a in my room, wouldn't 1KG be enough? How much would I need, if it was my main ctb method without drowning (I would want to inhale it so much I die, not lose consciousness)? Would 2KG be enough for death? It seems 1KG isn't enough.

Yes, it's enough for a CTB attempt.

Here is my actual method

Before entering sea, I will fully prepare 2KG (or 1KG) R-134a balloon tank (inserting valves and hose), I will put it inside my bag, and hold hose in my hand (but if I can only find pipe for inhalation, I will have to sit on water, put backpack in front of me, and start inhaling through pipe from balloon inside backpack. I will try to get hose, it is long and more flexible than pipe)

I will enter sea, go at least as deep as my legs (fully entering sea may either be impossible or just trigger cold shock). I can't merely go inside sea as shallow as my ankles or knees, because it wouldn't be enough for drowning, and also my body would be seen from beach. So, I will go at least until my legs are fully inside sea.

And then, I will turn back, open valves, secure balloon tank inside backpack as hard as possible so it will remain inside backpack when I lose consciousness, wear backpack again on my back, tie it to myself with rope and start inhaling. I won't hyperventilate or do anything before inhalation, but I will plug my nose so no oxygen enters through air. I will put hose as deep as I can inside my mouth so waves can't make it slip down from my mouth. I hope that after I fall consciousness, hose won't come out of my mouth. I will need to find a way to secure hose too. Maybe I will use a rope to tie hose to my head before I start inhaling. I will also tie hose as hard as I can to valves so waves can't suddenly separate hose from valves. I Will also tie backpack to my body as hard as possible, so sea can't remove it either.

I hope that after drowning, waves won't bring my body to shore though. For preventing this, I will fill my backpack with sand from shore, wear it on my back and hope backpack will pin me down in one point after drowning. Sand may also firmly keep balloon tank inside backpack. So, hose will be tied firmly to my head, balloon tank will be inside backpack full of sand from shore, and backpack will be tied to me. I don't think sea waves can separate me from backpack and balloon, or its hose

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!! No one can really understand how much grateful I am for your replies. Thanks to reading your informative replies and researching on my own, I am finally free of methods such as cutting, choking myself, holding out my breath. For already a few days, I asked questions, lots of questions and you answered with clear, informative replies.



I will need to buy valve to open/close gas release, and hose / pipe to breathe gas straight from balloon, if they need to be bought separately. I don't plan on making tests, I want to ctb, so I will buy only one 1kg balloon or maybe one 2kg balloon. No second balloon



My goal is to lose consciousness inside sea faster. I can't wait until an unknown amount of time passes so hypothermia knocks me down in very cold air. Some people say that cardiac arrest will be very fast after entering sea, for some it's 15/45/60/120/180 minutes depending on weather temperature, health and tolerance to cold. Some people are even found alive after 30 mins of drowning because cold hypothermia slowed down destructive processes in the body. Inhaling Refrigerant is much faster to lose consciousness.

I don't want to use refrigerants as main method. They are perfect for combining with drowning method, in my opinion. Why? Because Even if inhaling them on their own is effective enough, combining them with drowning and hypothermia at cold winter night will significantly raise probability of ctb, me not found easily, harmful gasses won't hurt anyone else (better than inhaling them at home, losing consciousness, pipe coming out of my mouth and releasing all remaining gas to room, etc)

But, I am curious, if my method was solely inhaling R-134a in my room, wouldn't 1KG be enough? How much would I need, if it was my ctb method (I would want to inhale it so much I die, not lose consciousness)? Would 2KG be enough for death? It seems 1KG isn't enough.


Here is my actual method

Before entering sea, I will fully prepare R-134a balloon tank, I will put it inside my bag, and hold hose in my hand (but if I can only find pipe for inhalation, I will have to sit on water, put backpack in front of me, and start inhaling through pipe from balloon inside backpack)

I will enter sea, go at least as deep as my legs (fully entering sea may either be impossible or just trigger cold shock). I can't merely go inside sea as deep as my knees, because it wouldn't be enough for drowning, and also my body would be seen from beach. So, I will go at least until my legs are inside sea.

And then, I will turn back, open valves, secure balloon tank inside backpack as hard as possible so it will remain inside backpack, wear backpack again on my back and start inhaling. I won't hyperventilate or do anything before inhalation, but I will plug my nose so no oxygen enters through air. I will put hose as deep as I can inside my mouth so waves can't make it slip down from my throat. I hope that after I fall consciousness, hose won't come out of my mouth. I will need to find a way to secure hose too. Maybe I will use a rope to tie hose to my head before I start inhaling. I will also tie hose as hard as I can to valves so waves can't suddenly separate hose from valves. I Will also tie backpack to my body as hard as possible, so sea can't remove it either

I hope that after drowning, waves won't bring my body to shore though. For preventing this, I will fill my backpack with sand from shore, wear it on my back and hope backpack will pin me down in one point after drowning. Sand may also firmly keep balloon tank inside backpack. So, hose will be tied firmly to my head, balloon tank will be inside backpack full of sand from shore, and backpack will be tied to me. I don't think sea waves can separate me from backpack and balloon, or its hose

I hope that my reasoning is logical and I am not making any big mistake that can make me end up alive

 

[Intoxicated]

But, I am curious, if my method was solely inhaling R-134a in my room, wouldn't 1KG be enough? How much would I need, if it was my main ctb method without drowning (I would want to inhale it so much I die, not lose consciousness)? Would 2KG be enough for death? It seems 1KG isn't enough.

1 kg of R-134a is nearly 10 mols that can produce over 200 liters of gas. This is more than enough for asphyxiation with a sealed plastic bag. I'd probably use this gas with a plastic bag if I couldn't obtain N2O.

 

[curiousbeing]

You don't need to disperse the gas around you or burn it, it's supposed to be inhaled either straight from the cylinder (through a pipe or a hose)

I'd probably use this gas with a plastic bag if I couldn't obtain N2O.

You mentioned it can be directly inhaled, but you prefer plastic bag? Why? Because direct inhalation through mouth may cause frostbite? Can I simply put hose inside mouth and breathe it?

I never searched for N2O gas balloons, I don't know if they are available here. And also, Why wouldn't you prefer H2S? It's very deadly.

Sorry if I ask too many questions

I'd probably use this gas with a plastic bag if I couldn't obtain N2O.

It seems N2O has one big advantage over both R-134a and H2S. It causes intense euphoria and it doesn't cause frostbite.

You mentioned it can be directly inhaled, but you prefer plastic bag? Why? Because direct inhalation through mouth may cause frostbite? Can I simply put hose inside mouth and breathe it?

I never searched for N2O gas balloons, I don't know if they are available here. And also, Why wouldn't you prefer H2S? It's very deadly.

Sorry if I ask too many questions

It seems N2O has one big advantage over both R-134a and H2S. It causes intense euphoria and it doesn't cause frostbite.

I googled, unfortunately n2o isn't widely available here. Only a few medical companies sell it as anesthesia gas. I don't think they would sell it to me. But just for curiosity, I will keep searching.

According to ChatGpt, R-134a also causes a little bit euphoria. It's lesser than R-152, but at least it creates euphoria, unlike R-22. R-22 doesn't create euphoria at all, but it's much more toxic than R-132a or R-152

if I couldn't obtain N2O.

I searched. There are a few medical companies that sell medical equipment. Probably one of them sell it.

I can actually message their WhatsApp/Telegram and ask if they sell N2O gas balloon, but I am sure it would raise their suspicion once they realize I am not medical person. At least they will question me why do I need it

So, I guess I will stick with r-134a. I am not against it at all, but for curiosity, I searched for N2O. Yeah, I wish it was widely available like refrigerants

 

[Intoxicated]

You mentioned it can be directly inhaled, but you prefer plastic bag? Why? Because direct inhalation through mouth may cause frostbite?

No, it's because my preferred CTB method is asphyxiation itself (not drowning), so I have to keep the gas in some enclosed volume for a reliable CTB. Otherwise, I'd just wake up after losing consciousness and stopping inhaling the asphyxiant.

Can I simply put hose inside mouth and breathe it?

For the purposes of losing consciousness - yes. For reliable CTB - probably no.

And also, Why wouldn't you prefer H2S? It's very deadly.

Because N2O doesn't have a bad odor and I can relax inhaling it before CTB. I keep H2S as a backup method in case if asphyxiation fails.

It seems N2O has one big advantage over both R-134a and H2S. It causes intense euphoria and it doesn't cause frostbite.

I think, it can cause frostbite too if used in a wrong way.

 

[curiousbeing]

I think, it can cause frostbite too if used in a wrong way.

I didn't know you were writing a reply to me, in my previous reply I wrote about this

I will delete that reply, and copy /paste it here.

So,

In order to make frostbite less dangerous from directly inhaling R-134a, maybe I will cover end of hose with socks and put it inside my mouth. Socks will prevent gas from immediately / directly touching my skin / inside of my mouth. I hope this can help me, even if I wrongly use r-134a

I keep H2S as a backup method in case if asphyxiation fails.

Yeah. It's like R-22, too toxic. I couldn't find R-22 or H2S gas balloon. And I can't produce them on my own. I know nothing about chemistry. And I am too tired.


So, for me, drowning + hypothermia themselves will kind of replace R-22 and H2S, when it comes to lethality. Without drowning / hypothermia, I would be forced to somehow find a way to obtain / produce H2S. Or, to find N2O somehow if I want to relax without bad odor

For the purposes of losing consciousness - yes. For reliable CTB - probably no.

I once again understand I must do it inside sea and cold weather. Without drowning, I may survive

I'd probably use this gas with a plastic bag if I couldn't obtain N2O.

You would probably use this gas - you mean, exactly R-134a and not other refrigerants? Why do you choose R-134a over others? According to ChatGpt, other than this, only R-152 causes the most euphoria. Others either don't cause euphoria or cause too little, compared to r-134/r-152

Actually, I asked ChatGpt, deodorants (butane) create the most strong euphoria among refrigerants! Their euphoria effect is stronger than R-152 and R-134.

But temperature is too cold, and I can't just open valve and have gas automatically released inside my mouth. So, I won't use deodorant.

 

[curiousbeing]

For the purposes of losing consciousness - yes.

I found a video that easily explains how to use hose and valve in R-134a gas refill

I found a video that easily explains how to use hose and valve in R-134a gas refill

Balloon needs to be lightly moved (not shaken) as it releases gas

I found a video that easily explains how to use hose and valve in R-134a gas refill



Balloon needs to be lightly moved (not shaken) as it releases gas

I will buy it. I hope it will be available. If I can't find refrigerant, I will have to enter sea, wait until I am knocked out and drown.