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Pluto

Pluto

Meowing to go out
Dec 27, 2020
4,163
The quote is, "You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." As featured in the 2008 Batman film The Dark Knight, it has become one of the more memorable lines to originate in modern cinema. But is it meaningful?

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The Führer
So I recently discovered an historian named Mark Felton whose channel offers a variety of detailed short documentaries, particularly on the subject of WWII. Inevitably, for the most significant historical figure of this era, there is no overstating the Chancellor of the Third Reich.

Whether I've been sucked down this rabbit hole because of YouTube algorithms or because the story is so symbolic of the human condition – not to mention my own personal history of destruction at the hands of a Dark Triad Nfather – is unclear. But I've gathered enough tidbits of information about the Hitler family to be able to offer some original commentary on the matter.

Cheating Death
Just over 135 years ago, on April 20, 1889, Adolf was born in Austria-Hungary. He was the 4th of 6 siblings born to father Alois and mother Klara.

However, 3 of Adolf's siblings had already died in infancy by the time he was born, and his younger brother Edmund would die in 1900. That left Adolf as one of only 2 siblings to reach adulthood, the other being his sister Paula. His father then died in 1903, and the mother in 1907. Each of these deaths deeply affected the young man, and he would later spend years largely homeless, selling his artwork to survive.

During the first World War, Hitler was mistakenly permitted to fight for Bavaria despite being Austrian. He was noted as a serious, opinionated young soldier who did not receive letters from any family at home, yet seemed to make the army itself his family by performing with zeal. In the horrific trench warfare, Germany routinely suffered tremendous losses. In one battle, 3,600 men were reduced to only 611. In another, only 42 survived out of 250, including Hitler.

180px Hitler IMG

In his roles, he was regularly exposed to British artillery fire. In the early stages, he was on the front lines, later serving as a messenger between headquarters and the battlefield. Volunteering for even the most dangerous of tasks, he earned prestigious awards including Iron Cross Second Class in 1914 and Iron Cross First Class in 1918. He was hospitalised in 1916 with a leg wound, then again in 1918 following a mustard gas attack. Reportedly, his life was spared by a British soldier.

Post-war, he was assigned a role spying on what was to become the NSDAP, or Nazi Party, which he soon joined. With his talent for impassioned speeches and ruthless strategising, he would eventually lead the party to power following much violence, including a failed coup and a prison sentence.

As Führer und Reichskanzler, following his consolidation of power, purges on opposition, expansionist military campaigns and the Holocaust, he evaded dozens of attempted assassinations, often under extraordinary circumstances.

In short, Hitler somewhat miraculously evaded death hundreds if not thousands of times from early childhood until his eventual 1945 suicide.

Psychology
His father Alois was a violent man who regularly beat his children, wife and even the dog. It was said that Adolf's personality shifted from confident and outgoing to morose and detached following his brother Edmund's death from measles. Much conflict with Alois pertained to Adolf's desire to eschew mainstream school in favour of pursuing his artistic passion.

Many scholars speculated on Hitler's mental health after his death, diagnosing conditions such as Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Borderline Personality Disorder, Histrionic Personality Disorder, PTSD and schizophrenia.

A couple of noteworthy examples:
* Erich Fromm (1973) described Hitler as a self-centred dreamer whose destructive traits were derived from the frustrated humiliation of struggling to adapt to reality.
* Alice Miller (1980) described Alois' violent parenting as "prototype of a totalitarian regime." Hitler's childhood trauma formed the basis for his brutality as Chancellor. She noted that many of his contemporaries complied with him due to having experienced similar childhood and/or war traumas themselves.

Other possible factors are drug use, including methamphetamines, and possible illness derived from WWI gas attacks.

Isaac bergmann 2019 11 02 batcat

Recapping for Batman
Had Hitler died in childhood of medical ailments like most of his siblings, his demise would have been a tragedy.
Had he lost his life in WW1 like millions of others, he would have gone down as a hero.
Had he been killed in the tumultuous Weimar Republic era, he would have been forgotten as one of many militants grappling for power.
Only because he died after the world gave him the opportunity to fully manifest his mental state did he ultimately die as a villain.

It is worth noting that other historical brutalisers, like Joseph Stalin, had similar early ingredients including a violent father, political turmoil and traumatic deaths of loved ones.

Bringing It Home
Considering well-documented historical precedents, I can see how Nfather would have been a completely different person without his childhood abandonment and exposure to unspeakable cruelty. Indeed, from this perspective, it becomes difficult to hate anyone since all are merely mechanical products of circumstance.

As miserable as my life has been, at least I can say I have not gone around shamelessly hurting people. Yet even this seems more a matter of luck than anything I can take credit for. Is the dreaded implosion into the black hole of Dark Triad membership a choice? Yet how to feel sorry for those who torture and murder shamelessly? Who is to blame? Are we all devils who rarely get caught?
 
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sserafim

sserafim

brighter than the sun, that’s just me
Sep 13, 2023
9,015
Im dying a hero. I'm going to Elysium
 
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Guy Smiley

Guy Smiley

Just another lost soul
Jan 4, 2024
459
Hitler wasn't just mentally ill. He didn't just have a really rough upbringing. In addition to these things, he was also an extremely horrible, evil person. As horrible and evil as a human being is capable of being. Mental illness and trauma simply aren't an excuse for slaughtering six million people due to their ethnicity.
 
Pluto

Pluto

Meowing to go out
Dec 27, 2020
4,163
Mental illness and trauma simply aren't an excuse for slaughtering six million people due to their ethnicity.
The nature of history is that is that every event becomes more complex the more one zooms in. And the value of making that effort is that it teaches us about our hidden potential (good and bad), about human nature and how to interpret events that are still happening today.

Take a look at a (mostly) competent field: aviation. Whenever a disaster happens, it is investigated thoroughly, all causative factors are considered and changes are made across the board to prevent a repeat. It would be all too easy to flippantly remark, "That aircraft assembly line worker was just evil and caused hundreds of deaths." If that's the narrative then great; get ready for it to happen again next week.

Similarly, striving to understand dark events is not about excusing atrocities. If anything, it shows respect to the victims of violence to ask how this can never be repeated and the role that seemingly unimportant individuals play.

Next up, did Hitler ever slaughter anyone? Not to my knowledge, but it's possible. To kill 6 million, one needs an entire society of tens of million people in complete cooperation. One needs the perfect storm of preceding historical events, dark propaganda and vulnerable political systems. It becomes clearer that the whole world contributed. We just like to blame one guy because we don't want to face that part of ourselves. Calling another person 'evil' is a backhanded way of calling ourselves 'good.'

Finally, Hitler died nearly 80 years ago. And there's never been a problem since, right? Alas, there are many Hitleresque events brewing in Russia, Belarus, China and even the US as we speak. And many others, too; almost like the whole world is affected to some degree.

In conclusion, yes, I feel there is value in exploring history and resisting pop culture's oversimplified narratives.
 
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Guy Smiley

Guy Smiley

Just another lost soul
Jan 4, 2024
459
Take a look at a (mostly) competent field: aviation. Whenever a disaster happens, it is investigated thoroughly, all causative factors are considered and changes are made across the board to prevent a repeat. It would be all too easy to flippantly remark, "That aircraft assembly line worker was just evil and caused hundreds of deaths." If that's the narrative then great; get ready for it to happen again next week.

Equating an aviation disaster to the Holocaust is breathtakingly absurd. You're simply not stupid enough to actually think that.

Similarly, striving to understand dark events is not about excusing atrocities. If anything, it shows respect to the victims of violence to ask how this can never be repeated and the role that seemingly unimportant individuals play.

There's nothing wrong with striving to understand "dark events". We can strive to understand evil without excusing those who perpetrate it.

Next up, did Hitler ever slaughter anyone? Not to my knowledge, but it's possible. To kill 6 million, one needs an entire society of tens of million people in complete cooperation. One needs the perfect storm of preceding historical events, dark propaganda and vulnerable political systems. It becomes clearer that the whole world contributed. We just like to blame one guy because we don't want to face that part of ourselves. Calling another person 'evil' is a backhanded way of calling ourselves 'good.'

Hitler is by far the main reason why six million people were murdered in gas chambers. As any well-regarded historian who has ever lived would tell you, it simply wouldn't have happened without him. End. Of. Story. To say that Hitler didn't slaughter anyone because he didn't personally carry them to the gas chambers or something is beyond asinine. Again, you're not stupid enough to actually think that.

Finally, Hitler died nearly 80 years ago. And there's never been a problem since, right? Alas, there are many Hitleresque events brewing in Russia, Belarus, China and even the US as we speak. And many others, too; almost like the whole world is affected to some degree.

That's such a pitifully ridiculous strawman argument. Because there have been, and continue to be, problems since after Hitler died, that someone absolves him or his actions?

In conclusion, yes, I feel there is value in exploring history and resisting pop culture's oversimplified narratives.

Of course there is value in exploring history. I never challenged such. But the fact that Hitler is responsible for the Holocaust, which is as horrible and evil a thing as anyone has ever perpetrated in human history, isn't pop culture or an oversimplified narrative.

In conclusion, don't bother replying. I won't read it. I'm not going to waste a minute more of my time debating some random deluded Nazi/Hitler sympathizer on a suicide forum (or anywhere else, for that matter). Goodbye.
 
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Pluto

Pluto

Meowing to go out
Dec 27, 2020
4,163
In conclusion, don't bother replying. I won't read it. I'm not going to waste a minute more of my time debating some random deluded Nazi/Hitler sympathizer on a suicide forum (or anywhere else, for that matter). Goodbye.
Let me know when you learn to hold a mature discussion on a complicated issue without name-calling.
 
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Ambivalent1

Ambivalent1

🎵 Be all, end all 🎵
Apr 17, 2023
3,279
Let me know when you learn to hold a mature discussion on a complicated issue without name-calling.
SS isn't right for that guy. Only the blonde in spirit can come here, right brother?
 

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