We should have an independent news organization or journalist that accurately represents SaSu!

[TAW122]

Over the years on SaSu, most of us have been unfairly and inaccurately portrayed by many news media organizations and journalists who are acting in bad faith. This isn't just limited to the NYT, WaPo, BBC, and/or many other big news organizations that writes articles or reports their story (often with an malicious agenda to try to smear, misrepresent, or otherwise inaccurately and incorrectly represent us). So this thread is partly a vent, but mostly an article to address that problem.

Also, recently with whole drama of BBC about a week ago or so, and the fixers (who I won't name), and many more, it only further cements my position that we do need an independent, third party, in good-faith journalist (I know it's unlikely, but just offering that up as a potential solution) in order to accurately and realistically represent what SaSu really is. SaSu is a community of people who are united by a common trait, suffering through sentience and find camaraderie in discussing various taboo topics (especially the right to die, voluntary euthanasia, and even the philosophy of death, suicide, etc.) without censorship and also a safe place where they can do so without being intervened against, goaded into sentience or pro-life rhetoric and platitudes, and being heard instead of being dismissed.

So assuming we have some people who are passionate enough and have enough resources, perhaps we could have a self-reporting, self-representing organization ourselves and that way we would be able to accurately represent what SaSu really stands for and be able to shed us in a positive and accurate light. Or perhaps for some other honest, independent journalist (might be a paradox or hard to find, not sure) to accurately represent what SaSu is. This idea was something I had in mind after the last few years of bad faith reporting by the media as well as bad actors seeking to harm the SaSu community.

While the drawback of this idea is that one could mistakenly misinterpret such an organization for either being pro-CTB, or prejudiced in some way, I still think it's better than having dishonest, unscrupulous mainstream media outlets incorrectly and inaccurately reporting on our community. Furthermore, having our own community act as our PR would at least allow us to represent ourselves in a more accurate light while debunking and doing away with the harm that mainstream media outlets as well as bad faith journalists have.

@RainAndSadness what do you think?

 

[opheliaoveragain]

I love this idea. I was in jounalism for a number of years, only left because of how corrupt things were but I have a BFA and care immensely about the RTD movement. Feel free to convo me. I dont know how we'd make it happen exactly but I think it's at least worth talking about. I also don't know if it would potentially backfire and end up in more flak thrown towards the site/its staff, which we do not want.

 

[daley]

Knowing how to respond to journalists, or how to generate positive press (PR) is an expertise
in itself. Could we learn such an expertise ourselves?

Anyway, I am just sharing @TAW122 concern of what/if we can form a more coherent
response to this.

One minor way of actively spreading our point of view is being done by the facebook
group "The Right To No Longer Exists" TRTNLE who have their own youtube channel.

 

[Plato'sCaveDweller]

Knowing how to respond to journalists, or how to generate positive press (PR) is an expertise
in itself. Could we learn such an expertise ourselves?

Anyway, I am just sharing @TAW122 concern of what/if we can form a more coherent
response to this.

One minor way of actively spreading our point of view is being done by the facebook
group "The Right To No Longer Exists" TRTNLE who have their own youtube channel.

TRTNLE is great! Though, it hasn't been the same since Danny CTB'd. Wish they'd get more publicity as they make some wonderful arguments and have great discussions, but it's understandable considering how taboo suicide is as a topic.

 

[daley]

One low-effort thing we might do is have a "page for the media" with a link to it from the home page.

If the mods would support this, I would be more than willing to help write one.

 

[willitpass]

IMO more media attention is the last thing this site needs. Try to paint this page in a good light and any lay person is going to read it as a cult trying to recruit members. Let others paint it in a bad light and people with think this is a death cult. This isn't really an issue peoples opinions are going to be swayed on. They either get it and think this place can be useful, see both sides and stay relatively indifferent, or despise us and think it needs shut down. And most people are going to fall in the camp of thinking this place needs shut down. Most this will do is draw more attention and increase the odds of getting it taken down in my opinion.

 

[TAW122]

One low-effort thing we might do is have a "page for the media" with a link to it from the home page.

If the mods would support this, I would be more than willing to help write one.

Additionally, we could have a site where it is closed off to people who aren't registered, but will still show the front page for the media from the home page, and this leaves most of the content inaccessible to the people who would infiltrate or try to look at things to use against us. I recall there was a period of time (probably years ago) where SaSu was just closed off to the public during transfer of ownership of the admins to our current admin (RainAndSadness) and also a lot of things to do to clean up SaSu and protect it from the media vultures.

IMO more media attention is the last thing this site needs. Try to paint this page in a good light and any lay person is going to read it as a cult trying to recruit members. Let others paint it in a bad light and people with think this is a death cult. This isn't really an issue peoples opinions are going to be swayed on. They either get it and think this place can be useful, see both sides and stay relatively indifferent, or despise us and think it needs shut down. And most people are going to fall in the camp of thinking this place needs shut down. Most this will do is draw more attention and increase the odds of getting it taken down in my opinion.

That's a possible concern as well, but I think if it helps us counter more of the bad faith press about us, it may be a small 'win', or like if we had our own video (not on a mainstream platform) of what our community is like, perhaps that could also disspell some of the biased negative perceptions that the media has stirred up about us. I think of this like some anti-smear effort to try to paint us in a more positive light or at least not like a death cult.

 

[daley]

I love this idea. I was in jounalism for a number of years, only left because of how corrupt things were but I have a BFA and care immensely about the RTD movement. Feel free to convo me. I dont know how we'd make it happen exactly but I think it's at least worth talking about. I also don't know if it would potentially backfire and end up in more flak thrown towards the site/its staff, which we do not want.

@opheliaoveragain Could you tell us a bit more about your experience as a Journalist?
Of course, I don't like the way the news is covering SaSu, but I also think that viewing the media as malicious is not a useful attitude.
How do you explain the way we are being covered?

@RainAndSadness , I see that you reacted with a "like" to @TAW122 's first post. I know you are probably busy, but I'd really like to
know your thoughts. I think there is little point in progressing without your approval.

@TAW122 's first post was a general idea, which needs to be put into concrete steps. I offered one specific step of writing a page
for the media. Another specific step would be just to gain expertise. I have several books about the media,
for example "Winning with the News Media: A Self-Defense Manual When You're the Story", which I have read long
ago. I could reread that. We could find additional resources. I am sure there are other resources where we can learn from.

Also, there is additional input that we would need from the mods that would be very valuable.
For example, has the site been approached by journalists? What were their questions and how did you reply?

Another related question I have is that there are SaSu members who are not mods but might like to
help in more substantial ways, other then replying to fleeting threads. How would one go about that?

Thanks @RainAndSadness and all the mods for the work you are doing!

(EDIT)
There is a newer edition of Winning with the New Media .

 

[RainAndSadness]

I mean, I'm kinda done with the media. The fact that they call us pro-suicide without any evidence or explanation at least, I address that allegation and kinda debunk it as much as possible and they then just keep calling us pro-suicide anyway proves nothing we do will ever be enough to clear our name. Fuck it tbh.

 

[Dot]

Outsde journlsts hve alrdy mde thr mnds up & thy wll litrlly twst & lie t/ kp pushng thr narr8tve of frum tht thy alrdy hve

 

[Forever Sleep]

Yeah, it would be wonderful if it was properly/ fairly represented or portrayed by someone but- they would have to be such a maverick. Would you reveal who you are and what you believe in openly to the world? It would invite a lot of hate for that person themselves. Partly because of what they are saying but also because they could be seen to be encouraging people to come here (... and die- that's how I imagine their relatives will see it.)

Portraying it truthfully as a place where people can feel supported without a whole bunch of pro-life platitudes, plus gain access to the most reliable methods would likely terrify most 'normies'. Do they even want us to have 'peer' support? I imagine they'd prefer it if we were limited to more life affirming resources.

If the target audience are 'normies'. People who aren't suicidal themselves, just how do you think we could honestly portray this place so that they would accept it? Just the name of it is going to scare the shit out of them! A place where suicide is ok to talk about and ok to do. I doubt they'd want that for their loved ones or children I suspect. I think it would take incredibly understanding people to see it as a good thing. I kind of suspect the majority of users here come here in secret. If we can't even tell our family members about it, how would a journalist do much better?

I would really like a study made on the effectiveness or rather- ineffectiveness of suicide being such a taboo subject to discuss. Does it truly help someone's mental well being not being able to talk about it- if they have those thoughts and drives? I really wish someone would do research on that.

I know what you mean though. I wish journalists would at least do thorough research. Not just go for a sensational story. Portray the good and the bad of somewhere like this. For me- journalists ought to be public servants. They ought to be researching and reporting on social issues in an intelligent and thorough way- for the good of everyone. Not just churning out basically soap opera shallow level drama because that's what people buy.

Why do people seek out a place like this to begin with? Why do people stay here? What's the appeal? Is it an echo chamber? Anymore than other social platforms are? Is that really dangerous? Are people here really that gullible or vulnerable that they even could be influenced to take their own life? Not that that goes on but it could be argued that we don't always put up opposition to someone doing it- if they seem sure. Isn't it clear that people here can thoroughly reason why they want to commit suicide? Why recovery hasn't worked for them? Is unlikely to work for them? The resources they've made use of and why they failed?

Sometimes I feel like- this place is a goldmine of guinea pigs. People who- ok annonymously but are openly screaming out that they feel suicidal. If I were in this business- a therapist, psychiatrist- whatever. The sorts of people who are presumably keen on helping people not to feel suicidal, I think I'd be interested in talking to people here. I wonder if any ever do. The people who make decisions for us effectively. Do they even care all that much about people on the ground level?

 

[daley]

If the target audience are 'normies'. People who aren't suicidal themselves, just how do you think we could honestly portray this place so that they would accept it? Just the name of it is going to scare the shit out of them! A place where suicide is ok to talk about and ok to do. I doubt they'd want that for their loved ones or children I suspect. I think it would take incredibly understanding people to see it as a good thing. I kind of suspect the majority of users here come here in secret. If we can't even tell our family members about it, how would a journalist do much better?

I agree that targeting 'normies' is incredibly challenging, but we don't have to target the 'normies'.
Our goal could be just to have more suicidal people be aware of SaSu.
which is what is happening anyway when we get media exposure.
But perhaps we could help improve on messaging to those people, through the media.

Viewed that way, our situation isn't so bleak.

Sometimes I feel like- this place is a goldmine of guinea pigs. People who- ok annonymously but are openly screaming out that they feel suicidal. If I were in this business- a therapist, psychiatrist- whatever. The sorts of people who are presumably keen on helping people not to feel suicidal, I think I'd be interested in talking to people here. I wonder if any ever do. The people who make decisions for us effectively. Do they even care all that much about people on the ground level?

The place, being a "goldmine of guinea pigs" as you say, may also be a goldmine for pro-choice stories.
I think that is what the media needs - captivating stories.

I have skimmed through "Dismantling the allegation that we're pro-suicide" of @RainAndSadness to the media. Its a lot to read through.
It's great and thorough. It has links to "stories" - SaSu threads about people who feel they "recovered" after their participation on SaSu.

But I am embarrassed to say that I haven't read it through yet. It's not just that the post is long, but
it also contains many important links which require further reading.
I do wish these response and links were consolidated and better organized, and pointed to via a link from the main page.
Putting such replies in sticky posts would not be trivial to find for a reporter.

The weariness of RainAndSadness is understandable. Perhaps a solution could be to delegate to somebody like @TAW122 to do
such rewriting. There are people that want to contribute to SaSu, and this can even be strangely therapeutic in providing
some purpose. I am in such a situation as well. It's a win-win.

 

[Z-A]

Anyone drawing attention to this website under the guise of being a helpful forum will be perceived as pro-suicide, especially if those 'independent journalists' are our own people. Next thing we'll be called is a death cult on top of pro-suicide. Mainstream media is stronger, they already proved their point and it's best not to battle with them, as it could potentially lead to the website's closure due to increased publicity.

 

[TAW122]

I've read the responses following up to my thread and here is my take on this:

Firstly, I will not be rewriting or being the face of SaSu, mostly due to the fact that I'm working on my eventual exit from suffering (time and date unknown even to me, will depend on the circumstances for me as I won't be making any hasty decision without thoroughly planning and ensuring that I'm 100% ready and that I will have next to zero chance of failing). Furthermore, I also won't be rewriting the stance due to the aforementioned risks and little to gain, the most I'll do is just circulate some ideas that would be used to combat the lies that most anti-choicers, pro-lifers like to spew, and that is more than a massive task for me to pursue.

Also, some of the points that ForeverSleep mentioned are quite interesting, that perhaps most 'normies' just don't get it (or care to get it) and automatically jump to conclusions or made up their mind before they even read or do their homework. I do think and agree that a lot of people who come here do so secretly mainly due to the taboo of mainstream society when it comes to topics like suicide and such. If people cannot be honest with their feelings in the open (without risking consequences including having their liberty temporarily restricted and such), then they do turn to safe places like SaSu.

As for what Rain said about the media making up their own mind, for the most part and especially mainstream media, I do concur that it seems like that is true and likely the case since they are not acting in good faith at all. They have a narrative and they want to spin it the way that will garner them the viewership and appeal to the masses, rather than the truth or accurately reporting on what something is. The idea of having an independent journalist was to do something that the media (the responsible ones and genuine ones) was to supposed to do, but it seems like that may not bring as much fruition for our community and may even invite unnecessary scrutiny.

 

[daley]

Just wanted to add an example of pages for the media. The examples are from the https://www.thelastresort.ch/ .

• https://www.thelastresort.ch/contact/media/ - a page with responses to specific news/articles in the media about "The Last Resort".
• https://www.thelastresort.ch/faqs/#11 - Sarco & The Media – Fact Check . A section of a FAQs page that addresses common media misconceptions.

I am sure that many other examples could be found, but its nice that the subject matter of "The Last Resort" is close to ours.