What do you all think of the criticism of MAID in canada?

[FadingDawn]

Namely, that oh -- they talk you into suicide, that it targets people with mental illness: that we have to remove the conditions which cause poorer people to ctb instead of giving them a humane choice; that someone's sister was 90, had cancer, but oh -- miracle of god! -- she recovered and live a happy-dappy life to 250 or whatever, but if she had been given this option she'd have ctbed and that would make jesus sad.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

I'm not a Canadian and I also don't live in a country with legal euthanasia but honestly to be granted legal euthanasia a person has to be dead already and has to have suffered too much in life already. It's certainly a relief but still not everyone who wants to exit for their personal reasons is eligible to receive legal euthanasia.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I'm more worried about the fact that it seems like people both left and right seem to be United against it, at least on my Twitter feed. Both see it as inhumane and unethical which doesn't give much hope that this will become more accepted worldwide.

 

[Alexei_Kirillov]

Namely, that oh -- they talk you into suicide, that it targets people with mental illness:

Humans being humans, there are always going to be people who abuse the system. MAID is no different, and I do think there have been some concerning stories, like the one with the veterans. So long as we have sufficient safeguards, I don't think this is a sufficient reason to deny people such a basic right.

that we have to remove the conditions which cause poorer people to ctb instead of giving them a humane choice

It's been said on here before, but when you deny people in difficult circumstances the ability to die, all you've done is take away a choice. All you've done is further entrapped them.

 

[permanently tired]

Ppl love the slippery slope argument. Idk why they like to pretend if maid is expanded there's going to be a genocide of poor ppl. It just seems like fear mongering, misconception, and unwarranted paranoia. Their logic is better let more ppl suffer than give ppl an out bc someone could be coerced into it. Replacing one wrong with another is some genius level thinking. There is no hope for maid.

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

The most criticism I see of these types of things is when they allow euthanasia for mental illnesses that are greatly understudied/stigmatized/badly supported like BPD or DID... but as someone with both, I'd like to pitch in.

YES, I do worry that having this might make the system less focused on finding new treatments/making stuff more accessible/etc since "the problem is already being taken care of," but all likelihood is that that wouldn't affect it too much.

Many already don't care about us, or want to help. This wouldn't change much on that front. On top of this, each person who applies for MAID and similar services has so many hoops to go through. If they used MAID to get rid of those they don't want to put the work in to help, they'd be making MORE work for themselves with all the people applying! Now, if they loosen the guidelines to an INSANE amount, then I'd be worried. Like loosen it more than the amount they should to help people who need it, loosening it so much that it might encourage last minute decisions or prioritizing CTB over resources that this person might find if they went for other avenues first. That's what I mean.

Either way, though, these people shouldn't suffer just because of the possibility of the government wanting to get rid of undesirables. If they're going to make our lives Hell, they want us to die anyway. Or at least don't care enough to help us live, like tossing a cat outside so you don't have to feed it.

 

[yellowjester]

we have to remove the conditions which cause poorer people to ctb instead

Yes, let's just wait 30 years until online lefties have fixed society -- surely you can hold on for that long!

 

[ijustwishtodie]

Seeing so many people go against MAID makes me even more depressed and suicidal because it shows that I'm living in a world full of humans that would rather have me and others suffer horrifically until natural death than die peacefully via euthanasia. Seeing so much opposition to MAID makes my chest hurt so much to where I feel like I'm going to vomit.

As for their actual arguments itself, it's all stupid and not well thought out at all.

Namely, that oh -- they talk you into suicide, that it targets people with mental illness:

I don't see how MAID does that. There's no talking into suicide as it's all an individual choice. People who are suicidal will want euthanasia based on their own life circumstances, not because somebody told them to die and, besides, in this pro suffering society, nobody is going to tell them to die anyway.

that we have to remove the conditions which cause poorer people to ctb instead of giving them a humane choice;

This is just a convenient excuse to further deny people euthanasia as nobody is going out of their way to improve their conditions for poor people. They're both denying euthanasia and not doing anything to improve the living conditions of people. Besides, MAID isn't opposing improving the living conditions of people, it's possible to allow euthanasia for those who don't want to live as well as improve the living conditions of those who do want to live. Also, since I'm the one who is poor and not them, I think that I should be entitled to make the decisions here instead of them, no?

that someone's sister was 90, had cancer, but oh -- miracle of god! -- she recovered and live a happy-dappy life to 250 or whatever, but if she had been given this option she'd have ctbed and that would make jesus sad.

This one isn't really something that you can refute in a way where people will believe in you (though, due to how deluded pro lifers are, there isn't a way at all). It's futile to try and convince them that there is no jesus. As for the rest of the premise, yes, it's possible that somebody can be suicidal and then recover to live a good life afterwards but lets consider an alternative hypothetical scenario in where that person ctbed whilst they have cancer. How is that a bad thing exactly? They aren't alive anymore so any future events or "what could have been" no longer applies to them as their future is in complete cessation now. A permanently non existent being no longer cares about what future they could have had as they don't have any futures at all for the rest of eternity nor do they have sentience to care about such a thing.

Thinking about "what could have been" is only a bias that living people have that only applies to those who are still alive (an example is how you could be on an alcohol addiction and think about what could have been had you not drank alcohol in the first place). However, when it comes to the action of a successful suicide attempt, this logic no longer applies

 

[Emeralds]

I agree with some of the criticism. We be trying to help people improve their circumstances and their quality of life. We shouldn't be offering them death without trying to help them. They shouldn't be offering euthanasia to homeless people without having a social worker review their circumstances and trying to help them first.

They have already cut funding for services to help people who need it the most ( the poor, homeless, disabled,etc). It is a valid concern that if they grant universal euthanasia that the government will further cut funding to services to help them and cut funding for more expensive treatments that might help people because it would be cheaper to let them die. This may not happen at first, but it will eventually as time goes on.

This problem will only get worse if they legailize universal euthanasia. It would be cheaper to euthanize people and there would be a lot more abuse in the system and less accountability than there is now. It would be harder to hold doctors and social workers accountable once they no longer have a basic duty of care and can refer people to euthanasia instead.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

I'm more worried about the fact that it seems like people both left and right

While bothsides aren't necessarily fond of it, there are more people on the left are for it in comparison to people on the right.

Mental Health and MAID: Canadians question looming changes to Canada’s assisted-death law -

Canadians divided whether surge in MAID since 2016 represents success or failure in health care February 13, 2023 – As the Trudeau government again delays changes to Canada’s medical assistance in death (MAID) laws that would have expanded coverage to those suffering solely from mental illness...

angusreid.org

 

[TAW122]

I think it's mostly due to high profile and heavily sensationalized cases (generally outliers) that the pro-life, anti-choice media and society like to fixate on. Sure, like others have stated here, there are (bad apples) people who will abuse the system and make the program look evil, but it is still a rarity compared to the amount of people who have been helped to end their suffering on their own terms. Barring those cases and special circumstances, in the majority of cases, I do believe that MAID is a good program that helps people avoid unnecessary suffering and in the grand scheme of things allow people to die with dignity instead of suffering until the end or even take matters into their own hands (potentially creating a big mess for unwilling participants).

 

[KuriGohan&Kamehameha]

The proponents of the slippery slope argument believe that people will be allowed euthanasia without the necessary safeguards like multiple interviews and a large window of time to contemplate the decision, and believe that just anyone can waltz up and die tomorrow, when that isn't really happening from what I can see. I don't live in Canada though, so take that with a grain of salt.

Another thing is, there is a lot of fearmongering that allowing euthanasia will mean that socioeconomic issues will never be addressed, but let's be real, people will forget about these issues as soon as this is no longer a hot button topic. Whether there's euthanasia or not, a lot of politicians are NOT in favour of providing more economic benefits to poor and disabled people, in fact a great deal of people are vehemently against it especially if they have to pay higher taxes to fund these programs.

The number of people who choose euthanasia in the first place is incredibly small relative to the total proportion of individuals in these marginalized groups, but you'll never hear them say that.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

While bothsides aren't necessarily fond of it, there are more people on the left are for it in comparison to people on the right.
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Mental Health and MAID: Canadians question looming changes to Canada’s assisted-death law -

Canadians divided whether surge in MAID since 2016 represents success or failure in health care February 13, 2023 – As the Trudeau government again delays changes to Canada’s medical assistance in death (MAID) laws that would have expanded coverage to those suffering solely from mental illness...

angusreid.org

The left only being slightly more in favor of something doesn't give me much hope in it ever being implemented either since historically that isn't a strong enough majority to lead to actual progress.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

The left only being slightly more in favor of something doesn't give me much hope in it ever being implemented either since historically that isn't a strong enough majority to lead to actual progress.

Funnily enough, the result show higher support for this in comparison to 2016.

 

[SilentSadness]

I pretty much just reject all the criticism, after all death is a human right so it doesn't matter whether the system is well implemented or not. Having assisted dying programs is always better than nothing at all. I don't think any of those people really care about the problems they talk about or even assistance for poor people, they really are just scared of death and want to ensure they never have to deal with it by forcing everyone to stay alive. That way, when someone dies, it can get swept under the rug as it's something that only happens to other people. However, the time those people spent hiding from their inevitable demise like the plague would really be better spent acknowledging it and making sure it won't be horrific and messy like they keep pushing for.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Funnily enough, the result show higher support for this in comparison to 2016.

View attachment 154832

That's good news at least. Maybe I was right all along and the real way to get bipartisan support for this is for the world to get collectively worse for everyone.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

I pretty much just reject all the criticism, after all death is a human right so it doesn't matter whether the system is well implemented or not. Having assisted dying programs is always better than nothing at all. I don't think any of those people really care about the problems they talk about or even assistance for poor people, they really are just scared of death and want to ensure they never have to deal with it by forcing everyone to stay alive. That way, when someone dies, it can get swept under the rug as it's something that only happens to other people. However, the time those people spent hiding from their inevitable demise like the plague would really be better spent acknowledging it and making sure it won't be horrific and messy like they keep pushing for.

This!! Although, with the last part of your post, most people surprisingly would rather die as late as possible even if that means dying horrifically to cancer or old age instead of dying early via euthanasia. Right now, most of the world opposes euthanasia in all cases even for those with terminal illness and the people who do support euthanasia for the terminally ill is incredibly small. It's actually scary that this is the world I live in. I live with other humans who would rather have a messy and horrific death than a peaceful one all because they want life for as long as possible. They say that we're all mentally ill but I think that they're the mentally ill ones for always preferring suffering

 

[Alexei_Kirillov]

Funnily enough, the result show higher support for this in comparison to 2016.

View attachment 154832

Interesting. I think MAID is one of those issues that people have a knee-jerk gut reaction to when it's first suggested, but then once they actually think about it more, they realize that it aligns with the beliefs they already espouse (namely bodily autonomy and the minimization of suffering).

 

[OnMyLast Legs]

I can't think of a downside to euthanasia. We spend an absurd amount of money extending the low-quality years at the end of life. Better to let the old folks go.

And there are young people with painful, hopeless conditions. And there are SaSu posters, whose lives are unbearable from a mixture of illness and circumstance.

So much suffering could be prevented by painless, certain death on demand. I wish I lived in Belgium or the Netherlands.

 

[FadingDawn]

I can't think of a downside to euthanasia. We spend an absurd amount of money extending the low-quality years at the end of life. Better to let the old folks go.

And there are young people with painful, hopeless conditions. And there are SaSu posters, whose lives are unbearable from a mixture of illness and circumstance.

So much suffering could be prevented by painless, certain death on demand. I wish I lived in Belgium or the Netherlands.

tbh, it's extremely hard in belgium and netherlands -- even there.

 

[Tommen Baratheon]

tbh, it's extremely hard in belgium and netherlands -- even there.

I wouldn't say it's 'extremely hard', here in Belgium. In case of a terminal illness you'll be approved very quick. In case of 'unbearable mental suffering' part of the problem is that you have to find not one, but two psychiatrists and they have to approve the request.

I know from experience that it's a challenge to find a psychiatrist, just for therapy and prescriptions. I had to search for a replacement when my psychiatrist got his pension. God knows how many e-mails and phones. I found one, 50 km from my home. A 40 minute drive. Now imagine you have to do that long search twice.

After the trial of Ine Nys it was suggested that in case of unbearable mental sufferings there should not be 2, but 3 psychiatrists. They also wanted their decisions to 'stick'. Now, when a psychiatrist disagrees with the request you can just 'shop around' for another one who does agree. So there's been some discussion.

But, 'extremely hard', no, possibly a long process (over 1 year), yes.

 

[lilah]

and suddenly everybody cares about the sick and the poor. nonsense.

Idk why they like to pretend if maid is expanded there's going to be a genocide of poor ppl.

which is insane reasoning bc poor people are too precious of a ressource to them. they only wanna get ride of the too old and the too (mentally or physically) sick bc those arent' of any use to them.