Discussion What do you think about determinism?

[Eren]

What do you think about determinism? Do you think that everything is absolutely determined?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinism

 

[Severen]

It should be called life instead of determinism.

 

[wxtyubidi7y]

1. Determinism is either true or false
2. If Determinism is true we do not have free will (in the philosophically meaningful sense required for ultimate responsibility)
3. If Determinism is false we do not have free will (randomness and acausality cannot provide us with free will)

Hence we do not have free will.

I am not a Determinist as such, but I am a denier of free will.

 

[TAW122]

1. Determinism is either true or false
2. If Determinism is true we do not have free will (in the philosophically meaningful sense required for ultimate responsibility)
3. If Determinism is false we do not have free will (randomness and acausality cannot provide us with free will)

Hence we do not have free will.

I am not a Determinist as such, but I am a denier of free will.

This sounds like a good, condensed version of what Determinism is. According to what you've said, then I'm going with No. 3, that determinism is false and that the world is full of randomness and that we lack control over things that are larger than us. Also, as an atheist, I don't believe in necessary that there is likely a Higher power out there (there might be but we aren't 100% sure that there is). However, since we cannot control others' behaviors, reactions, thoughts, nor certain collective circumstances as an individual, I believe that we don't truly have free will in the grand scheme of things, only locally and to one self's individual choices.

 

[Vegrau]

1. Determinism is either true or false
2. If Determinism is true we do not have free will (in the philosophically meaningful sense required for ultimate responsibility)
3. If Determinism is false we do not have free will (randomness and acausality cannot provide us with free will)

Hence we do not have free will.

I am not a Determinist as such, but I am a denier of free will.

Our past decide our present choice. Free will exist only when the choices are of the same value. But we both knew thats not the case. So yeah past decide present and future. We have no say in our choices. Never will. Many things already decided long before we are born. We are but the ripples of causality creating more ripples through each of our actions.

 

[therhydler]

The idea of determinism comforts me somewhat because it allows me to take some of the blame off myself. I just imagine that it couldnt have been any other way and I was destined to ctb. This makes me at the same time angry and hollow but is also a good thought somehow

 

[Final Escape]

What do you think about determinism? Do you think that everything is absolutely determined?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinism

Supposedly we do have free will. That didn't mean we are free though.

 

[Armadillo]

What do you think about determinism? Do you think that everything is absolutely determined?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinism

No. I do not think that everything is absolutely determined.
Modern quantum mechanics suggests a universe that at the smallest scale is probabilistic in its nature, see for example the double slit experiment. Well, there are some interpretations that try to point in other directions (Bohmian mechanics) but they are generally not well welcomed in the scientific comunity.

At the macroscopic scale the vast majority of phenomena can be accurately explained within a deterministic model, but those are, altough extremely precise, approximations.

There's a debate wheter the probabilistic nature of reality can effect the human brain and actions on a day-to-day basis in a significant way. In both cases though, there's no place for "free will" as it is commonly understood.

 

[Life sucks]

Yes and it doesn't matter because we can't calculate everything so it gives the illusion of freedom. Life sucks anyway and as a human it doesn't matter if you believe in determinism or any other thing, because the endless factors of life will always outweigh personal factors (like being 0 to infinity)

 

[Escape Humanity]

I think free will is a neurological process that's derived from determinism. The freedom is a combination of pattern recognition and an illusion of choice or control. (Determinism on a cosmic scale + randomness on a quantum scale + unknown neurological process = free will) I usually describe it as an illusion because I think the hubris of humanity can make some people overestimate the amount of control or free will that that they truly have. I don't know if there will ever be a way to accurately quantify the amount control that people really have. But I like to think of our free will as a tiny ripple in an ocean of waves (the waves representing a tiny fraction of events beyond our control).

Life is like an emotional rollercoaster ride on a track of hormones and neurotransmitters. We don't get to choose the ride, but we have the ability to anticipate and make correct predictions about the ride. But ultimately, we are all being done or controlled by uncontrollable planetary and cosmic events, our genetics, our social programming, our microbiome, and the random probabilities of quantum mechanics. For a person to truly have free will they would have to be able to access the multiverse. You would have to be able to make decisions outside of space and time.

That's what I think, but the truth is that no one really knows. It's a debate that scientist and philosophers have been having for centuries. But I don't think it's something that we can truly understand without a better comprehension of physics and the neurological process that leads to what we perceive as consciousness or self-awareness.

If our science, technology, and awareness of the universe continues to evolve (without a civilization ending or extinction level event) I suspect that we will eventually reach a point where two equations will be just as well-known as e = mc2. One will be an equation for M theory or a unification of quantum mechanics and general relativity. And the other will be a basic explanation of the neurological process (biological or artificial) that leads to consciousness. I suspect it is something we will see when or if artificial general intelligence becomes a reality.

I like what Sam Harris has to say about the topic