Discussion What is "Recovery"? Why everyone here should be seeking it.

[derpyderpins]

Some people seem to have a negative reaction to the phrase "recovery" on a suicide website. After all, the whole point is that we believe ctb should be a choice, so isn't telling people to "recover" from suicidal thoughts suggesting one choice is worse? It kinda sounds like it, but it's not. Here, I want to examine what I mean when I refer to "recovery."

Look, I've said it before, but if you found your way to this site, something is not right. That doesn't mean something is wrong with you, but something is - let's say - not good. You have considered wanting to kill yourself, be it because you are hurting (sad, lonely, in physical pain, rejected, angry, hateful, resentful, isolated, disconnected, empty, etc.) or because you lack reason to live (you're perpetually "bored," have no connections, no purpose, think life is inherently bad, hate the world, hate people, are anhedonic, are "rotting," etc.). Usually, it's a combination, but I'll leave it as either.

I think that people who describe themselves as suffering from the first category don't typically have an issue with the word "recovery." It's people who feel their primary reason for wanting to ctb is the lack of purpose that tend to reject the idea, so I'll focus on things from their perspective.

Essentially, the reaction is "why do I need to recover when it's the world that sucks?" I would answer that when I say "recover" I don't mean you have to give up your edgy awesome views about humanity and the world being an evil hellscape or life being overrated or similar. When I say "recover" I mean learn to feel a little better without compromising who you are. (Although, admittedly, a lot of my advice has to do with getting away from black and white thinking, let's ignore that for now.)

So, some examples.

• "I'm bored all the time. There's nothing to do in this stupid world." You can 'recover' by finding something to do so you aren't bored, while still thinking the world is stupid.
• "Nothing good is worth the effort, I just want to 'rot'". As much as this is obviously unhealthy, there's still no reason you shouldn't be considering ways to make good things worth the effort, either by increasing how good they are or decreasing the required effort.
• "I just get so mad at people wanting me to conform. I'm not going to 'get better' because that's exactly what they want." You're mixing up two concepts. You can 'get better' without conforming. Getting better ('recovery') just means feeling less anger and more contentment, less sadness and more joy, etc. You can do this while still being a non-conformist. You aren't proving anyone wrong by being miserable and bitter, you prove them wrong by feeling better and better moment-to-moment living your own way.
• "I want to ctb! I don't want to recover!" Okay but for one reason or another you aren't ctbing now, be it SI, access to methods, whatever. There is absolutely nothing gained by you refusing to improve your lifestyle while you work towards that ctb you crave.
• "Normal life seems so boring and bad, I refuse to be a normal person with a normal job. There's nothing to do in life." Again, you're mixing up two concepts. Of course, jobs aren't as horrible as some people make them out to be. I do a lot of intellectually challenging things and my job is something different every day. Regardless, if you want to avoid the monotony of a normal job and life, you are living an even more repetitive existence if you just sit at your computer browsing forums all day, or play the same games over and over, etc. You can reject normal life and still find something to strive for. That is a form of 'recovery.'

Venting is nice and a good thing to do sometimes, but if complaining about life becomes your main activity, it's okay to admit something should change. The best part is, you can work on all of these 'recovery' techniques and still choose ctb in the end. At the heart of my definition of 'recovery' is the idea that even if ctb is inevitable, we should be making our experience in this life the least bad possible. Often, that's going to come with some changes. You don't have to be like everyone else or lie to yourself to see some improvement in your minute-to-minute condition, which is what I would call 'recovery.'

 

[hoppybunny]

thanks for these kind words. i'm a mix of both reasons and i personally am for reducing effort as much as possible. i really want to recover but it feels like the world doesn't want me too. i have the least amount of problems when rotting and horrible stiff always happens when i try to recover but i still wan to try until next year.

 

[-Link-]

That's an astute observation, that people may infer a built-in judgement when they hear the term "recovery". I've been taken aback here, at times, seeing hostile reactions to "recovery", and this actually adds a bit of perspective as to why some here view it as a dirty word.

Personalization is a big theme in all things mental health. As are deep-seated self-esteem issues which can make one particularly sensitive and more prone to perceive a personal attack in something that's only actually meant as a neutral statement.

Another big one on this subject will be emotional reasoning. GUILT. Lots of (unjustified) guilt and shame to be had with a mental illness! It doesn't take much to rouse these feelings, especially for someone wrestling with the idea that they're not doing enough to help themselves (hello, stigma).

And then there is the tendency to compare ourselves to others: "This person's doing better than I am. Something must be wrong with me. Other people can see this. They must be calling me on my failures." No, we are not!

Suicidality and recovery: Yes, they can coexist. And for anyone having trouble buying into the idea of "recovery", perhaps try shifting away from "recovery = improving one's circumstances" and think of it as more like "recovery = reducing suffering".

 

[TransilvanianHunger]

These are all excellent points. Recovery is often understood as accepting the status quo in a conformist way — you recover so you can fall back in line, find a 9-to-5 job, and become a productive member of society. This is the line that mainstream psychology and psychiatry seem to push. But it doesn't have to be this way.

I'd argue that people who, at some point, feel suicidal urges are differently attuned to the realities of existence. The truth is that the vast majority of people won't ever question the way things are, and will never seriously feel this drive to remove themselves from it all. If you walk up to a regular person and posit to them that life is, essentially, suffering, they will give you a funny look and back away slowly. "Recovery" is not about dulling your spirit in order to better conform and fit in with the masses.

"recovery = reducing suffering".

This is, at bottom, what "recovery" is about. Choosing to live life in your own terms, refusing to let the world shame you or drag you down. Ideally, you find something that is meaningful to you, and you pursue it with reckless abandon. A pessimistic outlook helps here — life sucks, suffering and striving is the natural state of existence, and no amount of achievement will ever bring lasting joy or happiness. Once you realise this, you begin to see things as they really are, and then you are free to embrace the illusion: you can do or seek things just for the hell of it, knowing full well that they will not last. You can be like the child who picks up a stick from the ground and pretends it is a spaceship or a race car; the child knows that the thing in his hand is nothing but a stick, yet he chooses to pretend, play, and have fun with it.

 

[Trying To Live]

Recovery is finding joy in life again. And this for longer periods. Finding stability.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

Now this time @derpyderpins x @TransilvanianHunger was the SS crossover I was aware I needed.

 

[GuessWhosBack]

Will read this later

Edit: Read it 1 min later

Although I agree with your advice presented in general, I don't think it's completely fair to consider just those two groups. Those two groups also have significant overlap too. Not everyone here falls in them.

 

[derpyderpins]

Will read this later

Edit: Read it 1 min later

Although I agree with your advice presented in general, I don't think it's completely fair to consider just those two groups. Those two groups also have significant overlap too. Not everyone here falls in them.

You have considered wanting to kill yourself, be it because you are hurting (sad, lonely, in physical pain, rejected, angry, hateful, resentful, isolated, disconnected, empty, etc.) or because you lack reason to live (you're perpetually "bored," have no connections, no purpose, think life is inherently bad, hate the world, hate people, are anhedonic, are "rotting," etc.). Usually, it's a combination, but I'll leave it as either.

I agree about overlap haha.

Do you have suggestions for other reasons to ctb that wouldn't be in one of those categories (hurt or lack of purpose)? I basically thought of it as a simplified equation of good/happy minus bad/hurt with lack of purpose being a lacking in the "good/happy" category.

 

[GuessWhosBack]

I agree about overlap haha.

Do you have suggestions for other reasons to ctb that wouldn't be in one of those categories (hurt or lack of purpose)? I basically thought of it as a simplified equation of good/happy minus bad/hurt with lack of purpose being a lacking in the "good/happy" category.

Well.. any long drawn out "condition" (in the most abstract sense) that impacts the QoL of the individual significantly enough, generally. Could be many things.

 

[derpyderpins]

Well.. any long drawn out "condition" (in the most abstract sense) that impacts the QoL of the individual significantly enough, generally. Could be many things.

I hear you. I'd put those types of obstacles in the hurt category for these purposes. Reducing the effect/symptoms of the condition would be a type of "Recovery" under my definition even if the condition can't be fully removed or cured. Hell even some stronger pain meds would count.

That's a good point and contribution to the topic, because the word "recovery" probably creates similar hesitance there by implying you can cure the condition. Thanks

 

[GuessWhosBack]

I agree about overlap haha.

Do you have suggestions for other reasons to ctb that wouldn't be in one of those categories (hurt or lack of purpose)? I basically thought of it as a simplified equation of good/happy minus bad/hurt with lack of purpose being a lacking in the "good/happy" category.

Btw I don't dislike the +/- valuation of life when it comes to suicide, but I think there are certain negatives that make seeking positives much harder or impossible.

That's a good point and contribution to the topic, because the word "recovery" probably creates similar hesitance there by implying you can cure the condition. Thanks

Yeah, let's say one wants to "cope harder" as you've put it in another thread (I have to find that and read it, I haven't yet).

Well, one could want to do that, but for whatever reason, cannot.

 

[derpyderpins]

Btw I don't dislike the +/- valuation of life when it comes to suicide, but I think there are certain negatives that make seeking positives much harder or impossible.

Oh definitely. In my big recovery "guide"/journal I'm writing I am calling them "factors." Had some good contributions on my step 1 post. Resources, healthcare opportunities, location, etc are all factors along with inherent physical ones.

It's a tough needle to thread because topic of recovery is so massive, yet you want to simplify individual topics so they can be digested.

 

[GuessWhosBack]

Oh definitely. In my big recovery "guide"/journal I'm writing I am calling them "factors." Had some good contributions on my step 1 post. Resources, healthcare opportunities, location, etc are all factors along with inherent physical ones.

It's a tough needle to thread because topic of recovery is so massive, yet you want to simplify individual topics so they can be digested.

Could you do me a flavour and link them or send them to me, please?

 

[derpyderpins]

Could you do me a flavour and link them or send them to me, please?

First draft of an outline is on my profile from July 30 (I'd link if I could) which links to the posts I'm considering including. I have a new draft that's updated but I didn't know if anyone really cared to see outlines lol.

 

[GuessWhosBack]

First draft of an outline is on my profile from July 30 (I'd link if I could) which links to the posts I'm considering including. I have a new draft that's updated but I didn't know if anyone really cared to see outlines lol.

You can actually link profile posts using black magic - I did it on my book suggestions thread by going in my Latest Activity and copying the link of my status post from there

 

[derpyderpins]

You can actually link profile posts using black magic - I did it on my book suggestions thread by going in my Latest Activity and copying the link of my status post from there

Yer a wizard.

Yer also on your own lol I can't figure it out.

 

[GuessWhosBack]

Yer a wizard.

Yer also on your own lol I can't figure it out.

It's ok Hagrid I'll use the mystical search function

 

[sugarb]

I agree about overlap haha.

Do you have suggestions for other reasons to ctb that wouldn't be in one of those categories (hurt or lack of purpose)? I basically thought of it as a simplified equation of good/happy minus bad/hurt with lack of purpose being a lacking in the "good/happy" category.

Sacrificial suicide, maybe? Like, suicide so as not to burden others economically. Could be lumped in with hurt/lack of purpose in some cases but not always.

And there's religious/cult suicide I suppose

 

[swankysoup]

I think the problem with the concept of "recovery" is that usually the individual is blamed if they don't get better. This obviously makes people resent it. Plus the "edgy awesome views" traumatized people have tend to be pretty valid given their past. They don't help us but losing them is not easy.

 

[derpyderpins]

I think the problem with the concept of "recovery" is that usually the individual is blamed if they don't get better. This obviously makes people resent it.

That's a problem with whatever jerks would blame someone for not getting better. It's really, really hard to feel better sometimes.

Plus the "edgy awesome views" traumatized people have tend to be pretty valid given their past. They don't help us but losing them is not easy.

I guess that is in-line with my point, that you can keep those views and still try to improve your situation, unless the view is that you deserve to suffer.