Discussion What is the value of life when death is the only certainty?

[sinister]

The question lingers, like a forgotten whisper, slipping through the cracks of existence. Life, so fragile, so fleeting, clings to an illusion of purpose. Yet, no matter how tightly it grasps, the inevitable truth remains, death awaits, an uninvited guest at the table of life.

They speak of meaning, of finding purpose in the chaos, but what is the value of any endeavour when its end is already written in the stars? They strive, they fight, they build, yet each breath is simply a countdown to the inevitable collapse. They wear their fleeting moments as badges of honour, but what are they really? Masks worn over the hollow space where meaning once resided.

We live in a constant state of denial, weaving stories and justifications to cloak the darkness that looms behind the curtain. Life is but a dance, a fleeting, desperate attempt to convince ourselves that our steps matter. Yet, in the end, all our movements lead us to the same place, nothingness. What is the value of life when death is the only certainty? Perhaps it lies in the illusion itself, the belief that the dance is meaningful, that the music will last, even when we know it will stop.

To deny the truth of death is to deny the very essence of existence. It is the knowledge of the inevitable that shapes our every action, our every thought, our every breath. Without death, life is but a shadow, aimlessly wandering through the abyss. It is death that gives life its value, that forces us to confront our own fragility. Without it, we would simply exist, drifting through an endless, purposeless sea.

So, what is the value of life when death is the only certainty? Perhaps it is not in the length of the journey, but in the way we choose to walk the path, knowing it will end. The value lies not in escaping death, but in accepting it as the silent companion, always present, always waiting. And in that acceptance, perhaps we find the only true meaning, the courage to face the inevitable with open eyes, unafraid of the end.

Life, after all, is only as valuable as the shadow it casts. And without the shadow of death, there would be no light to see.

 

[Darkover]

the value of life is none we are just a small step in evolution towards more advanced and complex machines that eventually will take over from humans that's if we don't destroy the planet in the meantime or something does after they arrive, the only thing this system seems to have going for it is evolution to more and more complex life forms and environment

 

[fallingtopieces]

There is a great deal of needless death and suffering in the world. Making it more difficult to come to grips with death. The widespread economic inequity makes us fear old age, fear poor health, fear not having access to good care, long before we are 'old'. Especially as majority struggle with keeping up with basic needs, food, shelter, healthcare, in the present. Memento mori is meant to remind us to live, be present, because we will die. Hard to do when so many things are fucked up in our lives, and in the world around us. In the last few decades, I would wager the fear of death and old age has become much more prominent.

The temporary nature of life is something more of us are struggling with. But it is like two sides of a coin. One is that we will die, all will fade in time, and it's meaningless. I can't argue with that. The other side is that because it's temporary, it is also everything. It is all we have therefore precious. I can't argue with that either. I don't see how living forever or twice as long would make it all meaningful or valuable.

 

[Rational man]

Maybe the value of life becomes more profound with the knowledge that life is relatively short and impermanent. So many of us fly through time, and many never really find our true calling. Death at some point is guaranteed for everyone and we can never really know for certain, when that time is. The only moment that is guaranteed is right now. Tomorrow, I could drop dead from heart failure or something!!

 

[Valhala]

Perhaps death is the only value of life. The German philosopher Martin Heidegger described life in his work Sein und Zeit (Being and Time) as das Sein-zum-Toden (being-toward-death).

 

[FuneralCry]

I personally just don't believe it to have any, to me existence just feels like a mistake, I see existing as just futile suffering, it's just waiting to die where eventually all will be gone and forgotten about in non-existence no matter what and to permanently cease existing is all I could hope for. I find it the most terrible tragedy how this existence was even imposed at all that was completely unnecessary and I saw as just causing nothing but suffering all for the sake of it, ceasing to exist truly would solve everything for me and save me from all future suffering in an existence where death is all that's inevitable, I'd always prefer to not exist no matter what, for me non-existence really is all that could ever be desirable.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

There is none. Life doesn't need to exist in the universe. Just as how the universe doesn't need martians, it similarly doesn't need earthlings either. There is no necessity for us existing in the universe. We're just the product of aberrant chemistry and crude physics

 

[niki wonoto]

There is none. Life doesn't need to exist in the universe. Just as how the universe doesn't need martians, it similarly doesn't need earthlings either. There is no necessity for us existing in the universe. We're just the product of aberrant chemistry and crude physics

This is the harsh truth that people just don't want/like to hear, unfortunately

 

[Forever Sleep]

I think it's down to the individual, their perspective, whatever formed their perspective.

I've known people who truly valued their lives. They had no delusions about death either. They knew full well it was coming. Most likely for their spouse first too- seeing as there was an age gap. Still- that didn't stop them. They married them, had what appeared a few decades worth of very happy years together before the inevitable happened. Did they make a mistake? Should they have stayed single railing against the futility of life and love the whole time? Not according to them! They didn't seem to regret their decision.

Conversely, many people here have either chosen to reject a potentially happier life or, more tragically, they have been denied one. Maybe some of us would be miserable whatever though. Do you ever wonder that? Sometimes I think that getting the most out of life requires masses of effort, courage, hope. Maybe it's not our fault if we don't have those things but, they're kind of needed to be able to focus on enjoying life with death looming at the end of it.

Also, while it isn't as simple as this. Obviously, life circumstances, health etc. come in to play to define a person's quality of life/ capability of achieving a good quality of life.

Still- as a simple mental exercise- we know life holds many challenges for all of us. If we can't suicide at this moment, we've no choice but to face them. So- from that perspective- which is the more helpful approach?

Everything is futile in the face of death. I won't bother trying to get a career, relationship, friendships because, all will be snatched away in the end. Everything I do is pointless.

Or: This is going to be tough but I hope I can enjoy parts of life before I die. I'm going to try and work in a job I get fulfilment from. I'm going to try and pass the time with friends and a partner if I possibly can? Surely a more positive perspective is easier to work with.

Obviously, life's not as simple as that. Disappointments come along to smash our hopes to bits. We may become distrustful. We may not have enough confidence to go for these things to begin with. As an overall principle though, I don't think the nihilist viewpoint helps us to live and- we are stuck living for now.

I just see hope as a coping mechanism I suppose. Not something that guarantees victory. Simply a sign post: This is what you want so- go out there and do your best to get it. Much harder to live life and wander that road with no hope, no sign posts. Surely, you just wander alone lost before you die in the end anyway! Makes no odds really except, the journey was possibly more excruciating.

So sure- the value of life is threatened by death but, it surely makes the journey a little easier if we are lucky enough to attain at least some of our hopes along the way.

 

[niki wonoto]

@Forever Sleep I think my 'biggest' problem is that I don't seem to see any 'hope' left whatsoever..

1) Things (or people) that I want, dreams, envision, etc2 just seems to be out of reach, in reality..

2) I'm way too idealistic.. that I honestly just can't fathom that 'lowering my standards to the normal level just like everyone else' will ever be 'satisfying' enough.. nor will I probably be really, truly happy, or fulfilled..

And yes, nihilism only make things much worse for me personally.. (even though sometimes, strangely enough, it can be quite 'comforting' enough.. )
Maybe that's why I can relate with the OP's thread post above.

 

[Forever Sleep]

@Forever Sleep I think my 'biggest' problem is that I don't seem to see any 'hope' left whatsoever..

1) Things (or people) that I want, dreams, envision, etc2 just seems to be out of reach, in reality..

2) I'm way too idealistic.. that I honestly just can't fathom that 'lowering my standards to the normal level just like everyone else' will ever be 'satisfying' enough.. nor will I probably be really, truly happy, or fulfilled..

And yes, nihilism only make things much worse for me personally.. (even though sometimes, strangely enough, it can be quite 'comforting' enough.. )
Maybe that's why I can relate with the OP's thread post above.

Oh, definitely. Hope isn't something we can all hold on to or, even attain to begin with- sadly. I tried to account for the nuances in personal perspective in my response. Obviously, our own experiences in life, our own outlook define how much hope we have.

I suppose I was going more for- 'What's the point of having hope at all in the face of death?' The answer being- if we are able to generate hope for something or other, it can help us cope with life. Not saying it's necessarily possible for all of us. Just saying that I've witnessed it in others and, they appeared to value and enjoy their life.

So, not so much a: This is great, everyone should try it. A- it serves a useful function for those who are able to attain it.

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

We are champions in denial, we are immortal every day except for the last one. Or with the words of Ludwig Wittgenstein:

Death is not an event in life: we do not live to experience death. If we take eternity to mean not infinite temporal duration but timelessness, then eternal life belongs to those who live in the present. Our life has no end in just the way in which our visual field has no limits.

 

[L'absent]

Life is, indeed, a cruel anomaly of entropy, a random whim that has produced something intrinsically useless like terrestrial life. Living beings, including us, are nothing more than DNA replication machines, blind tools of an evolutionary process that has no purpose or meaning. Everything we do—eating, reproducing, building societies—is merely the result of selective mechanisms, temporary adaptations to an environment that will inevitably disappear.
The world is meaningless, yet we are structured to exist within it, prisoners of a biological paradox that forces us to survive, to find meanings, to invent stories to justify our presence here. We are generators of meaning, not by choice but by necessity: without it, existence would be unbearable, a crushing weight dragging us into nothingness. Our minds, products of evolution, are our jailers: they delude us into believing in higher purposes, in a direction, while all we truly do is adapt, for a fleeting moment, to a system destined to collapse.
There is no redemption in this cycle. We are nothing but experimental material, disposable tools of a process that has no awareness, no ultimate goal. The struggle to survive, to adapt, has no value: it is a blind mechanism, a temporary balancing act in a universe that will eventually consume us. Every attempt to find meaning is a mask to cover the absurdity, a desperate act to avoid seeing the void that surrounds us.
And yet, even recognizing all of this, we cannot escape. The absurdity of existence keeps us anchored here, forcing us to continue a dance we know to be meaningless. Life is not a gift, it is not a blessing: it is a trap, an evolutionary deception that binds us to a purposeless existence. And the meaning we create is nothing more than an anesthetic, a way to endure the horror of what we truly are: nothing more than a temporary experiment, destined to vanish into the cosmic silence.