where does consciousness "go" when you die

[wildflowers1996]

nothing physical "disappears" does it? like when you blow out a flame, the hydrogen and carbon exists, just in a different form?

but it is different for the non physical? when you sleep, where does your consciousness go? and the same when you die?

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Consciousness stems from the brain so when you die so does your consciousness.

 

[wildflowers1996]

Consciousness stems from the brain so when you die so does your consciousness.

is it not possible that somehow your brain could be "reformed" again?

like if you blend fruit together and make a smoothie, you could, with great difficulty, put all the fruit back together again

so even if the brain decomposes, if all the right "parts" were reassembled, would you not be conscious again?

 

[JustAnx]

I also struggle with the anxiety of non existance.

The "best" answers we can actually get are gonna be based on faith, rather than certainty.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

is it not possible that somehow your brain could be "reformed" again?

like if you blend fruit together and make a smoothie, you could, with great difficulty, put all the fruit back together again

so even if the brain decomposes, if all the right "parts" were reassembled, would you not be conscious again?

No, that's not possible. That doesn't even make sense.

 

[wildflowers1996]

No, that's not possible. That doesn't even make sense.

I don't see why not?

if you think as the brain as being like a computer

if you smashed up a computer into 1000 pieces so it wasn't functional, but you found someone able to reassemble all of the computer parts, then why wouldn't the computer work again?

 

[AvaCutey]

be me, consciousness
basically a fucked up rave in your skull
neurons = tweaked out ravers
neurotransmitters = sketchy drugs flooding the place
music is brutal industrial set
brainstem dropping beats
limbic system lays down filthy bass, all raw fucking emotion
sensory cortices screeching reality riffs
prefrontal cortex howling half-formed thoughts
working memory is the mosh pit
long-term memories hiding in dark corners
suddenly hear sirens
ohshit.jpg
it's the goddamn SWAT team
death_raid.exe initiated
power cuts out on the edges
senses going dark
music starts warping
brain's swimming in its own chemical soup
some ravers seeing God tripping balls
trying to keep the party going
one last insane surge
DJ cranks everything to 11
ravers go apeshit
but it's no use
SWAT breaches the warehouse
systems crashing left and right
flashbangs popping
smoke grenades hissing
kicking in every door in your brain
finally reach the main room
cut the power
everything goes dark
party = over

 

[EvisceratedJester]

I don't see why not?

if you think as the brain as being like a computer

if you smashed up a computer into 1000 pieces so it wasn't functional, but you found someone able to reassemble all of the computer parts, then why wouldn't the computer work again?

Yeah, the thing is, the brain isn't a computer. It is made of organic matter that, once it decomposes, cannot be brought back.

This isn't like smashing a computer into 1000 pieces.

 

[wildflowers1996]

Yeah, the thing is, the brain isn't a computer. It is made of organic matter that, once it decomposes, cannot be brought back.

This isn't like smashing a computer into 1000 pieces.

"Decomposition or rot is the process by which dead organic substances are broken down into simpler organic or inorganic matter such as carbon dioxide, water, simple sugars and mineral salts."

why can't the simple matter be put back together again, in theory?

 

[DarkRange55]

nothing physical "disappears" does it? like when you blow out a flame, the hydrogen and carbon exists, just in a different form?

but it is different for the non physical? when you sleep, where does your consciousness go? and the same when you die?

When you sleep, where does your consciousness go? And the same when you die? Nothing physical "disappears" does it?

The organization changes. The movements of ions become less organized.

Like when you blow out a flame, the hydrogen and carbon exists, just in a different form?

But they stop (or greatly slow) their joining to become water. It is not the H2 and the O2 that are flame, but the organized rapid joining of them.

After decomposition, why can't the simple matter be put back together again, in theory?

It can, in theory.

"Decomposition or rot is the process by which dead organic substances are broken down into simpler organic or inorganic matter such as carbon dioxide, water, simple sugars and mineral salts."

why can't the simple matter be put back together again, in theory

 

[EvisceratedJester]

"Decomposition or rot is the process by which dead organic substances are broken down into simpler organic or inorganic matter such as carbon dioxide, water, simple sugars and mineral salts."

why can't the simple matter be put back together again, in theory?

Your brain does not magically get reconstructed after it decomposes. Once it breaks down that's it.

 

[affirmatice]

consciousness is gone. Same as before you were born. What was it like before you were born? It'll be exactly the same.

Honestly my biggest fear is getting reincarnated. Not necessarily like in a spiritual or religious way.

But think about how you were born and suddenly conscious. Technically the same thing could happen again right? I mean you wouldn't remember anything about your past life. But still

 

[wildflowers1996]

Your brain does not magically get reconstructed after it decomposes. Once it breaks down that's it.

imagine that time was infinite - eventually, wouldn't coincidence lead to the same matter somehow being arranged in the same way again?

 

[Forever Sleep]

Would you say you were fully conscious when you were born? When you were a month old, even a year old? What was your sense of self like back then? What is your earliest memory? Do you have pictures or video of yourself as a baby in places you don't remember? If someone showed you a picture of yourself as an adult, some place you don't remember- wouldn't you be worried? Like- what was going on with your consciousness if you don't remember being in a place you actually were?

It seems to me like, what we understand to be consciousness- our sense of self and our memories grows as the brain does. When we're new born babies, we're more like animals living on instinct. Plus- if anything happens to the brain- eg. Alzeimers, brain damage- it messes with our memories and personality even.

Consciousness (to me) seems to be reliant on how the brain functions. How our brains function come down to what genetics we were blessed or cursed with. Plus, I imagine what we 'feed' our brains. Both in terms of nutrition and health- eg. boxers or rugby players are at risk of concussion and brain damage.

Plus, what we 'feed' them in terms of life experience, knowledge and any trauma we pick up. All that stuff surely shapes what we understand to be as ourselves and, all of that is unique to each individual- surely?

If you were born 100 years ago to different parents (obviously,) in a different country, as a different race and gender, into a different culture and religion- would you still be you? Surely not. You'd still be able to experience life and think about it but, the way you did that would be unique to that person. Every aspect of our experience surely adds to who we think we are.

As for dreams, I don't believe our consciousness goes anywhere. It just lies dormant while we sleep. I'm assuming dreams work on a different level because, we're not exactly self aware to the same degree we are in waking life. (At least, I'm not.) I experience dreams more as stuff that's just happening to me. But, I don't think they're real in the way we understand physical reality. I can fly in my dreams. I can't fly in reality (sadly.)

Put another way- say someone clones you. They are physically the same as you now. But- they won't have had your memories. They don't have your knowledge. All that stuff is the equivalent of software I suppose. All they have is the hardware to be able to live. Will they be exactly like you? No, they'll only look like you and have your physical potential. Would they even know how to walk, feed themselves, go to the toilet, read? Not sure you can clone memories across. What kind of life would they have if they are a grown adult and can't do any of that stuff? I imagine people would tease them.

I suppose it depends on what you think of as consciousness. Is it just a sense of being alive? In which case, who knows if that gets recycled. Although, I don't see why it should. Or, do you mean a sense of self? Surely, that is reliant on whatever body it grows in.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

imagine that time was infinite - eventually, wouldn't coincidence lead to the same matter somehow being arranged in the same way again?

I feel like you are grasping at straws in the hope in the death isn't it, but it probably is. You have to accept that.

 

[AwakeTooLong]

I like to think it'll be the same as before we existed. So, quite literally nothingness.

consciousness is gone. Same as before you were born. What was it like before you were born? It'll be exactly the same.

Honestly my biggest fear is getting reincarnated. Not necessarily like in a spiritual or religious way.

But think about how you were born and suddenly conscious. Technically the same thing could happen again right? I mean you wouldn't remember anything about your past life. But still

I personally wouldn't mind reincarnation if it was to my liking and under ideal circumstances but that's not how the world works, sadly.

 

[wildflowers1996]

I feel like you are grasping at straws in the hope in the death isn't it, but it probably is. You have to accept that.

Maybe but I can't understand why this isn't a valid point? (If time is infinite - not sure if it is)

There's a theory in infinite time monkeys would accidentally type the works of Shakespeare - so eventually wouldn't the odds also be in favour of us being "put back together"?

Would you say you were fully conscious when you were born? When you were a month old, even a year old? What was your sense of self like back then? What is your earliest memory? Do you have pictures or video of yourself as a baby in places you don't remember? If someone showed you a picture of yourself as an adult, some place you don't remember- wouldn't you be worried? Like- what was going on with your consciousness if you don't remember being in a place you actually were?

It seems to me like, what we understand to be consciousness- our sense of self and our memories grows as the brain does. When we're new born babies, we're more like animals living on instinct. Plus- if anything happens to the brain- eg. Alzeimers, brain damage- it messes with our memories and personality even.

Consciousness (to me) seems to be reliant on how the brain functions. How our brains function come down to what genetics we were blessed or cursed with. Plus, I imagine what we 'feed' our brains. Both in terms of nutrition and health- eg. boxers or rugby players are at risk of concussion and brain damage.

Plus, what we 'feed' them in terms of life experience, knowledge and any trauma we pick up. All that stuff surely shapes what we understand to be as ourselves and, all of that is unique to each individual- surely?

If you were born 100 years ago to different parents (obviously,) in a different country, as a different race and gender, into a different culture and religion- would you still be you? Surely not. You'd still be able to experience life and think about it but, the way you did that would be unique to that person. Every aspect of our experience surely adds to who we think we are.

As for dreams, I don't believe our consciousness goes anywhere. It just lies dormant while we sleep. I'm assuming dreams work on a different level because, we're not exactly self aware to the same degree we are in waking life. (At least, I'm not.) I experience dreams more as stuff that's just happening to me. But, I don't think they're real in the way we understand physical reality. I can fly in my dreams. I can't fly in reality (sadly.)

Put another way- say someone clones you. They are physically the same as you now. But- they won't have had your memories. They don't have your knowledge. All that stuff is the equivalent of software I suppose. All they have is the hardware to be able to live. Will they be exactly like you? No, they'll only look like you and have your physical potential. Would they even know how to walk, feed themselves, go to the toilet, read? Not sure you can clone memories across. What kind of life would they have if they are a grown adult and can't do any of that stuff? I imagine people would tease them.

I suppose it depends on what you think of as consciousness. Is it just a sense of being alive? In which case, who knows if that gets recycled. Although, I don't see why it should. Or, do you mean a sense of self? Surely, that is reliant on whatever body it grows in.

can memories / knowledge not also be cloned?

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Maybe but I can't understand why this isn't a valid point? (If time is infinite - not sure if it is)

There's a theory in infinite time monkeys would accidentally type the works of Shakespeare - so eventually wouldn't the odds also be in favour of us being "put back together"?

Once the brain is decomposed, that is it. It cannot be reconstructed again. You aren't making any valid points, you are just throwing shit at the wall. Time being infinite doesn't mean anything. Your consciousness dies when you die and your brain cannot magically be reconstructed again after the fact.

 

[DarkRange55]

imagine that time was infinite - eventually, wouldn't coincidence lead to the same matter somehow being arranged in the same way again?

Yes.

 

[wildflowers1996]

Once the brain is decomposed, that is it. It cannot be reconstructed again. You aren't making any valid points, you are just throwing shit at the wall. Time being infinite doesn't mean anything. Your consciousness dies when you die and your brain cannot magically be reconstructed again after the fact.

maybe I just don't have a proper understanding of decomposition. I probably am being silly and need a scientist to explain why decomposition is irreversible, but my very basic understanding of it is decomposition = complex substances are broken down into much simpler substances

they say people are made of elements that were once stars - somehow we've got to the point where those elements make up people which seems so crazy and yet it's happened - so I don't see why something crazy like that can't happen again, given enough time - that somehow the simple matter we were broken into when we decomposed might somehow end up combined again in the same way

I looked it up and it said "the spontaneous reversal of complex decomposition reactions to reform the original substance is practically infeasible" - which I do get but idk how to put into words what I'm saying, I guess what I'm trying to say is the chance of this happening might be something like
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.1%

but if enough time passes, the unlikely becomes likely? I'm sorry if I sound stupid, I am obviously no scientist, I imagine I am wrong but don't quite get why

I am probably wrong but idk if anyone understands what I'm trying to say it does make sense in my mind at least lol

 

[EvisceratedJester]

maybe I just don't have a proper understanding of decomposition. I probably am being silly and need a scientist to explain why decomposition is irreversible, but my very basic understanding of it is decomposition = complex substances are broken down into much simpler substances

they say people are made of elements that were once stars - somehow we've got to the point where those elements make up people which seems so crazy and yet it's happened - so I don't see why something crazy like that can't happen again, given enough time - that somehow the simple matter we were broken into when we decomposed might somehow end up combined again in the same way

I looked it up and it said "the spontaneous reversal of complex decomposition reactions to reform the original substance is practically infeasible" - which I do get but idk how to put into words what I'm saying, I guess what I'm trying to say is the chance of this happening might be something like
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.1%

but if enough time passes, the unlikely becomes likely? I'm sorry if I sound stupid, I am obviously no scientist, I imagine I am wrong but don't quite get why

I am probably wrong but idk if anyone understands what I'm trying to say it does make sense in my mind at least lol

Well, for one, you answered your own question. If the spontaneous reversal of complex decomposition reactions to reform a substance back into its original state is infeasible, then your theory basically falls apart. The passage of time doesn't magically increase the chances of this happening.

 

[wildflowers1996]

Well, for one, you answered your own question. If the spontaneous reversal of complex decomposition reactions to reform a substance back into its original state is infeasible, then your theory basically falls apart. The passage of time doesn't magically increase the chances of this happening.

It says "practically infeasible" but I think that's only because the amount of time it would take for it to happen by chance is huge

the chances of flipping a coin and it landing on heads 50,000 times in a row are tiny. but I believe if you flipped the coin for long enough, eventually that would be likely to happen

 

[EvisceratedJester]

It says "practically infeasible" but I think that's only because the amount of time it would take for it to happen by chance is huge

the chances of flipping a coin and it landing on heads 50,000 times in a row are tiny. but I believe if you flipped the coin for long enough, eventually that would be likely to happen

It will literally not happen.

 

[wildflowers1996]

It will literally not happen.

I think you're probably right but I still just don't get why I'm sorry for being annoying lol I'm not trying to be

 

[EvisceratedJester]

I think you're probably right but I still just don't get why I'm sorry for being annoying lol I'm not trying to be

The reconstruction of complex matter back into its original state after decomposition is practically impossible. You are grasping at straws, trying to use the term "practically infeasible" to try and claim otherwise, but it doesn't work that way. Even going by chances, the chances would be so low that it would be impossible, especially under the context of this happening naturally. Time passing doesn't change this. The chances would just stay the same.

Even under the guise that you can somehow reconstruct an already decomposed brain, that wouldn't mean that you are left with consciousness all of a sudden. For one, the brain doesn't run by itself. It would likely require that your entire somehow gets reconstructed since it requires things, like oxygen-rich blood and certain nutrients, to function. Otherwise, it wouldn't be able to even function.

This theory is in and of itself nonsensical. It's hard to explain why you are wrong when you are kind of just spewing pure nonsense, no offense.

 

[WildAtHeart]

To kingdom come

 

[wildflowers1996]

The reconstruction of complex matter back into its original state after decomposition is practically impossible. You are grasping at straws, trying to use the term "practically infeasible" to try and claim otherwise, but it doesn't work that way. Even going by chances, the chances would be so low that it would be impossible, especially under the context of this happening naturally. Time passing doesn't change this. The chances would just stay the same.

Even under the guise that you can somehow reconstruct an already decomposed brain, that wouldn't mean that you are left with consciousness all of a sudden. For one, the brain doesn't run by itself. It would likely require that your entire somehow gets reconstructed since it requires things, like oxygen-rich blood and certain nutrients, to function. Otherwise, it wouldn't be able to even function.

This theory is in and of itself nonsensical. It's hard to explain why you are wrong when you are kind of just spewing pure nonsense, no offense.

Infinite monkey theorem - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I feel like what I'm arguing is kind of similar to this

 

[KillingPain267]

is it not possible that somehow your brain could be "reformed" again?

like if you blend fruit together and make a smoothie, you could, with great difficulty, put all the fruit back together again

so even if the brain decomposes, if all the right "parts" were reassembled, would you not be conscious again?

Yes, that is in fact what the Christian resurrection is about. You will be reassembled at the last day but by God's power. Until then though, when your brainstems dies, so does your consciousness, like when you smash the motherboard of a computer, all the software and operating system stops running.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Infinite monkey theorem - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I feel like what I'm arguing is kind of similar to this

I feel like the Infinite Monkey Theorem doesn't do much to help your case. You aren't taking into consideration all of the irl logistical constraints that make what you are proposing impossible, especially under the guise that you are referring to this as something occurring naturally.

Even ignoring this, as the theorem itself points out, the chances of a monkey typing out all of Hamlet is still incredibly low. Even if every proton in the observable universe was a monkey with a typewriter who, from the big bang to the end of the universe, was typing, there would need to be 10^360,641 observable universes made up of protonic monkeys typing in order for there to even be a 1 in a trillion chance of success. Basically, even ignoring all of the logistical constraints in the scenario, I think it's safe to say that the chances of the spontaneous reconstruction of a brain back into its original form after having decomposed would still be incredibly small. Thus, this isn't a good argument for this theory.

I feel like it's safe to say that no, this wouldn't happen and once you die that is it.

 

[Ashu]

Nobody knows, despite the dogmatic claims of our resident religious atheists.