Which is the scarier concept: God or Satan?

[Cloud Busting]

It is interesting to me how many people fear the hand of God. I understand why people are God fearing due to the power and authority He is perceived to hold. I know Ethel Cain has discussed finding God far more threatening and frightening than Satan. However, I do not relate.

As a child, I perceived God as benevolent. God is good as they say. Yes, it did terrify me knowing God was watching my every move and monitored each sin I committed. However, I could repent and stay firm in my convictions and therefore stay righteous and true.

If I am made in God's image, and God is good, then it follows I am good. I am, after all, a child of God. I feared Satan because he corrupts. Satan is insidious, sneaky, and alluring. After all, Adam and Eve were innocent and pure until they were tempted by Satan and the tree of knowledge.

As I child, I saw Satan everywhere. I perceived him in everything. He was as omnipresent as God, and looming in each and every corner, waiting to tempt me with the lust and seduction of sin. I feared his influence. I feared being tortured by him in hell.

So which figure do you find more intimidating? I understand most people here are non-believers, but I don't think you have to be a believer to not find either concept horror inducing. Just imagine they're real for the sake of the question if necessary.

 

[moondazed]

To preface: I'm agnostic. I don't know the Truth, and I'm pretty convinced our stories and science only scratch the surface. And that ultimately the human mind cannot perceive the Truth. I'm a scientist by profession and I'm simply trained in knowing how to measure. All science is is measurements and interpretations of such.

To answer: God, but not really.

I don't see "Satan" as much of a threat. "Lucifer" is named the light bringer. Though, in the Bible, "Lucifer" was actually just an insult to a human king who believed himself to be God or from the North Star, or something like that. That name's connection to satan is a bit of a blurry one, it may have came from the Greek story of Prometheus. If Christian stories are to hold justice then Lucifer brought light, ergo knowledge, to humans through the forbidden fruit. Lucifer gave us free will. And God must have eventually agreed, hence no longer interfering. That may have been condemned us to sin, but if it's the deed of our fathers, we are simply victims are we not? Life forces us to participate in original sin. I don't feel guilty about any of that and if god judges us, I don't think he really cares if we go to church or have a gay lover. There are far greater evils to judge than what some hateful zealots spout about.

I'm ready for Hell, if it exists. Even if I have some wacky beliefs about the spiritual, I don't really believe in a god bringing us perpetual suffering. Maybe we have to take another test, reincarnation into some spiritual lesson idk. But if it's real, I'd rather that, than to cause suffering to others. I'm just not scared of deities when there are real beings in our realm suffering so much for simply existing. Reducing that is my goal, but it's really hard to do.

 

[Forever Sleep]

It depends really. Did God create Satan? Is Satan Lucifer- a fallen angel booted out of heaven by God? In which case- I feel sorry for Satan. If God created evil in the first place, then God surely has a dark side. Or- did something evil exist as separate to God? Surely- whatever it is must be equally as powerful- otherwise- God would have wiped it out. So- therefore God either isn't omnipotent or, God has made the decision to let evil exist. I get the impression God wants us to choose. If we make the wrong choice- we get punished. I'd prefer it if God was either too weak to fight evil or absent minded and simply forgot about their creations. Otherwise- I find it hard to ignore God's narcissistic and sadistic traits. Personally, I have more problems with God than I do Satan. If God truly is all knowing and all powerful- they knew all the suffering they were about to bring about when they created this world. Maybe it's my inferior mortal mind but I can't see how that can ever be justified. Personally, I'd much prefer there to be no God at all!

 

[WAITING TO DIE]

I sometimes wonder if Satan is the good guy because He wanted to give us knowledge ( truth ). Yet God wanted to keep the truth from us in the garden of Eden.
I also wonder if Satan is being used as a pawn by god. For instance satan has to ask gods permission to do things such as tempt people, like in the case of Peter and job.
But I think I would most definitely fear God if it exists, as opposed to satan because God supposedly created satan, meaning that he is probably the more powerful being, and maybe God created evil too ?

 

[Foreverix]

Satan didn't kill the vast majority of humanity with a deluge, nor did he create the likes of Hitler or whatever boogeyhuman one wants to insert here.

I don't actually believe in either, but if I had to swear allegiance...hail, Satan.

Yahweh is a divine dumpsterfire and celestial terrorist.

 

[Amyend88]

I think your question is hard to answer. I don't think I believe in either but would be more terrified of hell because God would forgive me.

 

[ctbestie]

Personally, "God" seems to be a scarier concept. This may be a bit off-topic, but as an agnostic who grew up in a Christian environment, I've long found the idea of "God" to be problematic. I don't think there's a single being who could only do absolute good as there are some situations that don't have a perfect resolution upon further inspection. In short, God himself and people think it is good just because God did it/said so, and not because there's proof that it logically is the right course of action. Therefore, rather than picturing a perfect being that touches one's soul upon hearing of their good deeds, I picture a being that thinks they're perfect, but they actually aren't. Naturally, this view on God also applies to Christians since as a Christian you're supposed to follow what God teaches you and become more "Christ-like" even if some deeds that God has done are deeply morally questionable. Should this being truly exist, I'd be scared by His existence as a not-absolutely-good-but-thinks-they're-good God is scarier than a being that's straightforwardly "evil." God definitely seems like the "safer" option if one had to choose who they had to go to, but in concept, no. With Satan, I'd already be expectant of pain, suffering, and injustice. With God, I don't know what to expect since He's supposed to be good, but He's questionable in some aspects. The thing I'm scared of the most is receiving injustice from a being that's supposed to be "good" and a being that a lot of people worship to be "good." Unlike humans, this being would also be omniscient and omnipotent, so I can't even defend myself. I doubt that He'd consider any arguments in judgment either since He already sees Himself as "perfect."

 

[Lost in a Dream]

After reading the book of Job, it's obvious that Satan is buddies with God in that story. They were both responsible for the death and suffering that happened in that book, so if they both exist, then I want nothing to do with either one.

They're just 2 sides of the same coin if you think about it. If Christians are right about how Satan started out as an angel named Lucifer, then the only reason they fell from grace is because they wanted power for themselves. If they could've swapped places in the mythology, then the universe would've traded one tyrant for another. (It would be like Stalin taking over as the new dictator of Nazi Germany as an example)

I don't believe any of the religious myths from the Bible, but I'm convinced that any god who created our universe is a psychopath. It doesn't matter which religion is closest to the truth because anything capable of designing a world like ours is sadistic.

 

[WAITING TO DIE]

After reading the book of Job, it's obvious that Satan is buddies with God in that story. They were both responsible for the death and suffering that happened in that book, so if they both exist, then I want nothing to do with either one.

They're just 2 sides of the same coin if you think about it. If Christians are right about how Satan started out as an angel named Lucifer, then the only reason they fell from grace is because they wanted power for themselves. If they could've swapped places in the mythology, then the universe would've traded one tyrant for another. (It would be like Stalin taking over as the new dictator of Nazi Germany as an example)

I don't believe any of the religious myths from the Bible, but I'm convinced that any god who created our universe is a psychopath. It doesn't matter which religion is closest to the truth because anything capable of designing a world like ours is sadistic.

I often wonder if there is any truth in gnosticism.

 

[Lost in a Dream]

I often wonder if there is any truth in gnosticism.

I wonder about that too. It seems more believable to me than anything else as far as religion goes.

 

[WAITING TO DIE]

I wonder about that too. It seems more believable to me than anything else as far as religion goes.

Yes, gnosticism is the only thing that makes sense when you see how much suffering is caused by the flesh - prison body, and all the evil in the world in general.
I imagine the archons to resemble the cenobites in the film hellraiser.

 

[sash]

Me.
Cos if there is a god or gods, I'll be having words with them.

 

[icari]

If there is any God of this universe at all (I believe there is), then I believe that for it to be the true God (that is, of ALL existence), then it must contain the entirety of our conception of good and evil, and therefore "God" and "Satan", heaven and hell, within it. I believe they are one and the same. Human suffering is insignificant to it's greater goals, which are unfathomable from our perspective here.

 

[Spiritual survivor]

God really does love us, no matter what u did or who u are so to me that's very comforting. Satan is scary because he is the father of lies. If u are not aware of Satan he can seduce u into things that can destroy your life and it happens so innocently. U don't see the danger unless u are awake and have the spiritual discernment from God. This is why we need God and the Holy Spirit to help guide us to make decisions that serve us throughout our entire life. Satan seeks to kill, steal, and destroy. Many people are totally unaware of the fact they are serving Satan unknowingly because sinful behaviors are portrayed as good in society many times. Satan controls our physical world at this time, but it is reaching the end. Satan will lose his control when the contract is up. Adam and Eve handed dominion of the world over to Satan when they disobeyed God. God didn't allow this as a punishment on humanity, it was that he gave us a choice to be obedient but we failed and God has to honor contracts and this was the consequence. Jesus was sent to allow us to reconnect to God and get the Holy Spirit back if we chose to. Jesus was also our sacrificial lamb so that when when we die in this life, it isn't over. He wants those of us who love him to be able to experience the second life in his kingdom. We currently live in Satan's kingdom not God's and it is why so many people are suffering here.

 

[R_N]

Satan seems like human to me. Like he does things out of spite and lash on onto world. Like he was hurt by god and never learned to see beyond his impulses.

But I was never super religious even as a muslim I was more like an agnostic with my own idea of god.

I am atheist since forever now tho so I don't really believe in any of it, but I would say god is scarier and he also seems like a narcissist who wants others to worship him and always has the last word.

Ultimate narcissistic fantasy imo.

 

[tiger b]

I believe in God but I have very simple faith. I grew up in part of the world where people killed each other over religion so I find this silly tribalism absurd.

If God is, then he is Perfect.

If God created us, then we are Perfect.

This world isn't perfect. Therefore, God stands outside the world. How can something Perfect create something imperfect? It can't.

Who created the world if not God? Ahhh. I really don't care. It's a bit of a collective delusion, this place!

We are Perfect in an imperfect world, when everything tries to convince us otherwise. It's this maladjustment that causes so much pain.

I find Satan a hilarious concept. Like a material heaven, or any material reward. Closeness to God would be simple, would be pretty much non-existing.

Of course, if this is a cruel God who did make this world then...I really have no love or time for him/her/whatever.

I believe in a very simple God, who waits for us beyond our suffering. In some distant way, we chose to be here, and possibly choose to keep coming back again, out of our own ego.

If there has to be a Satan, it's in our own egos.

Our destination is just a matter of time. I find that comforting in the face of existential pointlessness. What else could there be?

 

[gonegirl1]

To preface: I'm agnostic. I don't know the Truth, and I'm pretty convinced our stories and science only scratch the surface. And that ultimately the human mind cannot perceive the Truth. I'm a scientist by profession and I'm simply trained in knowing how to measure. All science is is measurements and interpretations of such.

To answer: God, but not really.

I don't see "Satan" as much of a threat. "Lucifer" is named the light bringer. Though, in the Bible, "Lucifer" was actually just an insult to a human king who believed himself to be God or from the North Star, or something like that. That name's connection to satan is a bit of a blurry one, it may have came from the Greek story of Prometheus. If Christian stories are to hold justice then Lucifer brought light, ergo knowledge, to humans through the forbidden fruit. Lucifer gave us free will. And God must have eventually agreed, hence no longer interfering. That may have been condemned us to sin, but if it's the deed of our fathers, we are simply victims are we not? Life forces us to participate in original sin. I don't feel guilty about any of that and if god judges us, I don't think he really cares if we go to church or have a gay lover. There are far greater evils to judge than what some hateful zealots spout about.

I'm ready for Hell, if it exists. Even if I have some wacky beliefs about the spiritual, I don't really believe in a god bringing us perpetual suffering. Maybe we have to take another test, reincarnation into some spiritual lesson idk. But if it's real, I'd rather that, than to cause suffering to others. I'm just not scared of deities when there are real beings in our realm suffering so much for simply existing. Reducing that is my goal, but it's really hard to do.

What do you mean by the Truth? I've read a book called The Awaken of Intelligence by Krishnamurti and it mentions that, and by reading it I also believe it's not possible for us humans to achieve it.

 

[moondazed]

What do you mean by the Truth? I've read a book called The Awaken of Intelligence by Krishnamurti and it mentions that, and by reading it I also believe it's not possible for us humans to achieve it.

Yeah, there's truth, and then Truth with a capital T, being the intrinsic nature of reality. I believe we can can access it to a degree through meditation and prayer, whichever one may prefer. But we are always held back with our biases and sensual limits. Science, and our brain, is powerful but still very limited.

Plato's Cave kind of touches on it, how everything has a true form and how what we experience is merely its shadows. That's usually how I try to understand it

 

[gonegirl1]

Yeah, there's truth, and then Truth with a capital T, being the intrinsic nature of reality. I believe we can can access it to a degree through meditation and prayer, whichever one may prefer. But we are always held back with our biases and sensual limits. Science, and our brain, is powerful but still very limited.

Plato's Cave kind of touches on it, how everything has a true form and how what we experience is merely its shadows. That's usually how I try to understand it

Yes, if I recall right it has to do with being truly present in the moment and in connection with everything, not just seeing it from the outside. Maybe it is possible to achieve it but only with constant practice and a life devoted to it. Idk

 

[moondazed]

Yes, if I recall right it has to do with being truly present in the moment and in connection with everything, not just seeing it from the outside. Maybe it is possible to achieve it but only with constant practice and a life devoted to it. Idk

Yeah, I think the concept of "Truth with a capital T" is borrowed by a lot of philosophers and theists. I've never heard of Krishnamurti, but I might check them out. Is that what that book is about? I enjoy a good eastern philosophy. Found the Srimad-Bhagavatam at one of those "leave a book/take a book" library at a park where I live. It has beautiful illustrations and is enlightening to read

I believe in God but I have very simple faith. I grew up in part of the world where people killed each other over religion so I find this silly tribalism absurd.

If God is, then he is Perfect.

If God created us, then we are Perfect.

This world isn't perfect. Therefore, God stands outside the world. How can something Perfect create something imperfect? It can't.

Who created the world if not God? Ahhh. I really don't care. It's a bit of a collective delusion, this place!

We are Perfect in an imperfect world, when everything tries to convince us otherwise. It's this maladjustment that causes so much pain.

I find Satan a hilarious concept. Like a material heaven, or any material reward. Closeness to God would be simple, would be pretty much non-existing.

Of course, if this is a cruel God who did make this world then...I really have no love or time for him/her/whatever.

I believe in a very simple God, who waits for us beyond our suffering. In some distant way, we chose to be here, and possibly choose to keep coming back again, out of our own ego.

If there has to be a Satan, it's in our own egos.

Our destination is just a matter of time. I find that comforting in the face of existential pointlessness. What else could there be?

I love this <3

 

[gonegirl1]

Yeah, I think the concept of "Truth with a capital T" is borrowed by a lot of philosophers and theists. I've never heard of Krishnamurti, but I might check them out. Is that what that book is about? I enjoy a good eastern philosophy. Found the Srimad-Bhagavatam at one of those "leave a book/take a book" library at a park where I live. It has beautiful illustrations and is enlightening to read

I never heard of it before reading the book ig, maybe vaguely. The book talks about it a lot, ways to get to it, and some other things like a class to teach people how to live better and see things through that mindset.
Personally I found reading it very frustrating because it left me even more hopeless, in the way that reaching that state of mind is almost impossible. But u can check it out it's pretty nice and informative about spirituality.

 

[sserafim]

It is interesting to me how many people fear the hand of God. I understand why people are God fearing due to the power and authority He is perceived to hold. I know Ethel Cain has discussed finding God far more threatening and frightening than Satan. However, I do not relate.

As a child, I perceived God as benevolent. God is good as they say. Yes, it did terrify me knowing God was watching my every move and monitored each sin I committed. However, I could repent and stay firm in my convictions and therefore stay righteous and true.

If I am made in God's image, and God is good, then it follows I am good. I am, after all, a child of God. I feared Satan because he corrupts. Satan is insidious, sneaky, and alluring. After all, Adam and Eve were innocent and pure until they were tempted by Satan and the tree of knowledge.

As I child, I saw Satan everywhere. I perceived him in everything. He was as omnipresent as God, and looming in each and every corner, waiting to tempt me with the lust and seduction of sin. I feared his influence. I feared being tortured by him in hell.

So which figure do you find more intimidating? I understand most people here are non-believers, but I don't think you have to be a believer to not find either concept horror inducing. Just imagine they're real for the sake of the question if necessary.

I'm atheist or agnostic (don't really know) but the idea that someone created this world and that all of this suffering is just allowed is scary to me. You would think that God would do something about all of this, and try to prevent the pain and suffering in this world. The idea that God created me and forced me to live this life is scary to me too. I hate that God decided to make me neurodivergent and make me have Asperger's/autism and ADHD. I'm not well versed in either God or Satan though because I was raised atheist. I honestly believe more in reincarnation and past lives than God or Satan. I'm not sure if there is a supreme creator/higher power, and I'm not sure if it would be a good thing if there were one or not. The world is honestly like a messed up simulation and it's increasingly like someone created it…

 

[real person]

both suck

 

[DarkRange55]

Dr. Carl Jung talked about the collective unconscious that was this common pool of experience that was somehow available to everybody just because they were human - Jungian archetypes, racial memories, things that are embedded in the race.
Jungian archetypes - There are ubiquitous sapient fascinations. I'm sure they map on but the fascinations I'm thinking of are sex, love, power, uncertainty etc. In my view, Satan is absolutely an archetype that we all have within us. We all have the capacity for in a relationship to- evil!

Jungian archetypes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I've also heard some remark that if there is a god, they are either a sadist or apathetic

 

[sserafim]

Dr. Carl Jung talked about the collective unconscious that was this common pool of experience that was somehow available to everybody just because they were human - Jungian archetypes, racial memories, things that are embedded in the race.
Jungian archetypes - There are ubiquitous sapient fascinations. I'm sure they map on but the fascinations I'm thinking of are sex, love, power, uncertainty etc. In my view, Satan is absolutely an archetype that we all have within us. We all have the capacity for in a relationship to- evil!

Jungian archetypes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I've also heard some remark that if there is a god, they are either a sadist or apathetic

I don't think that either is real. I do think the demiurge and archons may be real though, earth feels like a prison planet.

 

[DarkRange55]

I don't think that either is real. I do think the demiurge and archons may be real though, earth feels like a prison planet

I don't think that either is real. I do think the demiurge and archons may be real though, earth feels like a prison planet

Gnosticism?

 

[sserafim]

Gnosticism?

Yeah, prison planet theory is based upon gnosticism. Personally I need to look into gnosticism more, I mainly browse the r/escapingprisonplanet subreddit lol. My goal is to escape the soul trap in this lifetime, I'd hate to have to get reincarnated again

Dr. Carl Jung talked about the collective unconscious that was this common pool of experience that was somehow available to everybody just because they were human - Jungian archetypes, racial memories, things that are embedded in the race.
Jungian archetypes - There are ubiquitous sapient fascinations. I'm sure they map on but the fascinations I'm thinking of are sex, love, power, uncertainty etc. In my view, Satan is absolutely an archetype that we all have within us. We all have the capacity for in a relationship to- evil!

Jungian archetypes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I've also heard some remark that if there is a god, they are either a sadist or apathetic

Also what do you mean by racial memories and things that are embedded in the race? Like generational trauma?

 

[DarkRange55]

I don't think that either is real. I do think the demiurge and archons may be real though, earth feels like a prison planet.

Hmm… well my spiritual side is all dedicated to my art. I write stories, I write poems that's my spirituality. That's where I get it from but I don't think it's true or that there's something substantial behind it just because I came up with it. It's for me, it's my imagination. I've never really needed that comfort. Even in my darkest times I've never turned to that source for comfort, I turn to movies, and music, and art, and literature, and all that stuff I think that's plenty, that's all the god I need.
I like Stoicism, the philosophy. That subs into that slot of religion but without the dogma.

Gnosticism?

Religion - basically daily devotion - most people substitute some kind of daily devotion into that religious slot because it's a human need whether it's a religious source or not.

Psychedelics, for example - some people attribute that to a spiritual experience, truly is an experience, some people get a tangible high from going to church.

 

[BlessedBeTheFlame]

"But here steps in Satan, the eternal rebel, the first freethinker and the emancipator of worlds. He makes man ashamed of his bestial ignorance and obedience; he emancipates him, stamps upon his brow the seal of liberty and humanity, in urging him to disobey and eat of the fruit of knowledge."
- Mikhail Bakunin

Also, just a reminder that there is only one instance of Satan killing people in the bible and even that was with gods involvement. (Job 1:6-22)

 

[DarkRange55]

Yeah, prison planet theory is based upon gnosticism. Personally I need to look into gnosticism more, I mainly browse the r/escapingprisonplanet subreddit lol. My goal is to escape the soul trap in this lifetime, I'd hate to have to get reincarnated again

Also what do you mean by racial memories and things that are embedded in the race? Like generational trauma?

Oh, yeah? Is that because of a fear of reincarnation or is there something specific about gnosticism that clicks with you?