Venting Why I've been blackpilled on racial equality, and why I'm probably going to kill myself.

[BeedyBee]

This post will probably be deleted, but here we go...

I'm a 22-year old, African-American male...and I think my race might be inferior.

First off, I'll admit I've never lived the stereotypical "black experience". I didn't grow up poor or in "the hood" or whatever. I was raised upper-middle class by parents who were both college-educated and had high-paying corporate jobs. I've also been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome, and throughout my life I've been characterized as very bright compared to my peers.

Even despite my "outlier" status among black people, I still took pride in my race. I was "woke". I studied African history and culture in my spare time, and encouraged others to do the same. I championed the cause of racial equality and social justice online. I marched with protestors during 2020. I believed that the goal of uplifting black people in America and around the world was achievable, and I wanted to dedicate my life to it.

As any person deeply involved in online culture wars, I was always aware of "race realism". I had previously dismissed as nothing more than blatant Nazi propaganda. But in the interest of intellectual honesty, as someone who wants to study race and social science, I felt like the research needed to be fairly evaluated. I fully expected to come out the other side with my previously-held values intact...

...I didn't

You don't know what a gut-punch feels like until you're reading credible scientific studies proving you're part of a lower race. That the crime and dysfunction in your community is not a passing phenomenon, but is literally coded into many of our genes. That "smartness" isn't something you get by working hard or going to a good school, but something you're born with. That evolution has doomed the majority of people who look like you to a life of poverty and destitution. That the people who subjected your ancestors to the worst injustices in history were all proven right in the end. That your intelligence isn't a validation of the ideal of racial equality, but a statistical outlier, a confounding variable, an exception to the rule. How are you supposed to process that information?

I can't. I haven't been able to stop thinking about it. I feel like I've been force-fed something I'm not supposed to eat. I feel like everything I've ever known was a lie. I've been losing sleep for the past month. I can't operate normally in society anymore knowing all this information. I can't tell anyone because they'll think I've gone crazy or that i'm some kind of ebony Hitler

I know that if the world finds out about this, they're going to kill us. We'll be forcefully sterilized, and segregated from society just like during Jim Crow.

I don't want to live in that world. Which is why I'm probably going to end my life.

 

[koipu1337]

Hey man, thank you for this earnest and high-effort post. I wouldn't dispute the factual claims, but rather the normative ones: Just because blacks are 1 SD lower in IQ or any other evaluative metric doesn't invalidate y'all as people or obviate the necessity of equality and "uplift." It certainly doesn't mean that slavery is justified or that you need to kill yourself.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Race is generally considered to be a social construct by most scientists. A lot of the "race IQ" studies that are passed around by racists are studies that aren't taken seriously by most researchers and in a lot of cases aren't even peer-reviewed. Also, environmental factors do affect IQ. While IQ is mostly determined by genetics, the environment that you grew up in can still have an impact on your score. I also feel like you're completely ignoring how things like poverty and trauma effect crime rates and IQ.

The MAO-A gene also usually causes increases in antisocial behaviour in maltreated children. It has nothing to do with race. Whether it causes antisocial behaviours or not is determined more by whether or not you were neglected or abused when you were younger, along with your sex (from my knowledge, it only really affects male).

At the end of the day, the high rates of crime and poverty within black communities in places like the US are a reflection of systematic issues, not issues with the genetics of black people. "Smartness" might he biological but environmental factors can still affect it. Crime in communities cannot be summed up as just being due to genetics, especially since even trying to look at it from a biological perspective just ends up leading to it coming down to environmental factors. Evolution hasn't doomed anyone because race isn't a thing. It's a social construct. We have yet to find any actual evidence of it being a thing. That is the general consensus amongst scientists.

Issues with poverty and crime are common amongst marginalized racial communities. Look at Italian communities from decades ago, prior to them being seen as white. A lot of those communties were crime ridden. Look at the poor communities in london during the Victorian era and prior. This isn't something that comes down to genetics. The issues that are affecting the black community today are a reflection of the issues with our current society. A random post from a website that was clearly not peer-reviewed and has a single comment under it questioning the entire thing is not a scientific source, btw.

Sorry if this post wasn't super well-written. I have to get up and get ready soon so I'm in a bit or a hurry so I've kind of taken to just writing from what I already know.

 

[BeedyBee]

A lot of the "race IQ" studies that are passed around by racists are studies that aren't taken seriously by most researchers and in a lot of cases aren't even peer-reviewed

I'm not saying that all the studies are 100% correct, but I think the fact that they "aren't taken seriously by most researchers" is less proof that they're wrong than it is proof that scientific community doesn't like their conclusions.

Which I don't blame them for. I mean just read about at how this kind of theorizing about racial differences has been used historically. This type of research has its fingerprints all over some the worst crimes in human history: Slavery, Colonialism, The Holocaust. And the people who conduct this research today are obviously aware of this, as much as they pretend not to be.

However, I think one of the more fallacious ideas that prevails among people today is that our modern liberal and egalitarian values are somehow "objective" and not just another man-made dogma meant to govern society the same way religion used to.

As abhorrent as we consider it now, eugenics was considered more or less "settled science" not that long ago. And it's worth asking whether the fact that it isn't anymore is a reflection of "the science" changing, or our society changing to value equality more. Increasingly, I'm starting to think that it was actually the latter, and not the former as I think most people believe.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

I'm not saying that all the studies are 100% correct, but I think the fact that they "aren't taken seriously by most researchers" is less proof that they're wrong than it is proof that scientific community doesn't like their conclusions.

Which I don't blame them for. I mean just read about at how this kind of theorizing about racial differences has been used historically. This type of research has its fingerprints all over some the worst crimes in human history: Slavery, Colonialism, The Holocaust. And the people who conduct this research today are obviously aware of this, as much as they pretend not to be.

However, I think one of the more fallacious ideas that prevails among people today is that our modern liberal and egalitarian values are somehow "objective" and not just another man-made dogma meant to govern society the same way religion used to.

As abhorrent as we consider it now, eugenics was considered more or less "settled science" not that long ago. And it's worth asking whether the fact that it isn't anymore is a reflection of "the science" changing, or our society changing to value equality more. Increasingly, I'm starting to think that it was actually the latter, and not the former as I think most people believe.

The scientific community doesn't like their conclusion because they're wrong. Again, race is a social construct. This has been well-known by many researcher for a while now. Thus, there isn't even any strong biological basis for the race IQ bs that spewed out by most of said studies. Genetic diversity is incredibly complex and our modern construct of race does a poor job at accurately reflecting this. Hence why scientists are starting to move away from using the concpt of race in genetic studies and starting to focus more on things, like geographical area.

At the end of the day, most of the disparging things you were talking about in regards to black people apply to every racial group. I think it would be best for you to maybe stay off the internet for a bit, since I'm guessing that's where a lot of your new ideas on race are probably coming from...

 

[Guy Smiley]

As was stated in previous replies, according to modern science, the concept of race is almost certainly a social construct, not a biological reality. There are ample articles published in highly regarded publications which reference highly regarded scientific researchers that support this. Here are just a few:

Race Is a Social Construct, Scientists Argue

Racial categories are weak proxies for genetic diversity and need to be phased out

www.scientificamerican.com

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8452910/

Retired Site | PBS

This Content is No Longer Available

www.pbs.org

Why genetic IQ differences between 'races' are unlikely

The idea that intelligence can differ between populations has made headlines again, but the rules of evolution make it implausible

www.theguardian.com

Athletics, IQ, Health: Three Myths of Race

Two researchers break down why differences in human athleticism, IQ, and health can’t be explained by the concept of race.

www.sapiens.org

Of course, anyone can go online and find articles which claim that the concept of race is a biological reality and that there are definite differences in intelligence between the various races, but most of these articles are based on research that has either not been peer-reviewed and replicated or has been found inconclusive (or flat out wrong) by subsequent research. So, it's very important to not automatically take things you read at face value and to dig deeper into the claims being made.

FWIW, I'm of European decent (AKA "white/Caucasian") and grew up in a very ethnically diverse neighborhood and had many classmates of African descent (AKA "black"), as well as Asian and Latino descent. My IQ score is above average (even for "white/Caucasians") and yet I had several "black" classmates who were--based on all objective and subjective measures-- just as smart, if not smarter than me. I had several classmates of Asian descent who--again, based on all objective and subjective measures--I was just as smart as, if not smarter than. And yet, according to antiquated theory, people of Asian descent are supposed to be the smartest.

My experiences in college and the workplace have been the same.

In regard to the idea that people of African descent have a genetic predisposition for violence, there is no credible research to substantiate this. Even the article you (OP) linked doesn't make this claim. It says, "Until studies are conducted that are able to simultaneously examine both African Americans and Caucasians, it would be premature to speculate as to the potential ramifications of the 2-repeat allele in explaining any of the well-known crime trends."

 

[obligatoryshackles]

I'll meet you where you are. I doubt any sources I can cite or anything I can say will change your mind about the conclusions you've arrived at yourself. But I will pose some questions.

Why do you think a race should be persecuted just for being inferior in some way? Slavery wasn't wrong because the justification for it was based on falsehoods, it was wrong because it's a moral atrocity when done to anyone. If you had a sibling who was academically worse than you, do you think your parents should treat them worse?

And why is intelligence so important in this case? Even if a race is inferior in one aspect, surely there are other aspects of them that may not be. Just look at how much American culture is dependent on black culture. Look how many Olympic world record athletes are black. Creativity, imagination, discipline, athleticism, all important measures that aren't directly tied to intelligence.

Maybe the crime statistics tell you that a race is more dangerous to society, so they should be put down. But why should they all suffer for it? Even if undeniable statistics say that one race commits twice as much crime as every other race, it's still a tiny proportion of their total population. If danger to society should be an indicator at all, then the white people who were essentially responsible for imperialism, the holocaust, and the nuclear arms race should be put down first.

The fight against racism isn't solely based on disproving the justifications for discrimination, it's about upholding the same moral standards for all people.

 

[Adûnâi]

That the people who subjected your ancestors to the worst injustices in history were all proven right in the end.

See, this is not exactly the correct assessment. So far, the Whites are going extinct, whereas other races are proliferating. So who's the smart one in the end? Intelligence is not the only metric to gauge a race's evolutionary success. The only metric is survival.

Look at the Whites - Germany? Destroyed. The USSR? Destroyed. America? In the process.

East Asia has a much better track record. In the 19th century, Korea and China were in the gutter, but Japan rose up (mostly by virtue of the European empires being stupid, but still). Then Japan killed itself by attacking China in 1937, but then China and Juche Korea rose up, and are going strong.

From a historical point of view, the situation with races looks much different.

Why do you think a race should be persecuted just for being inferior in some way?

Exactly! The right-wingers are making a mistake lying by omission - they consider some populations inferior by virtue of having some arbitrary characteristics they've selected as unwanted. But guess what, a hood chad with a gun has a better evolutionary success than a sterile Oxford professor! A Brazilian gangster is like an animal in his wild habitat, a savage beast, beautiful like a lion (I've seen the videos). Whereas all the Whites can do is bleat about ethics, morality, ontology and epistemology all the while their countries go to shit (and their women are choosing not the professors, if you catch my drift).

...Apologies for raunchy language, this topic is risqué as hell. I'm not judging, Nature herself is judging - and those deemed inferior are dead like the dinosaurs.

 

[The Burning Fool]

I just wanna testify that I'm absolute genetic trash as a white guy.

Anyway, racial discrimination is not compassionate even if the theories behind it are true, which they are not. And compassion is more important than truth anyway because living beings operate based on a suffering to non-suffering scale, not a being right to being wrong scale. An even better argument would be to point out that there's literally no objective truth to reality whatsoever. The best truth anyone has is generated subjectively in one's mind trying to make sense of sensations. Fundamentally, we observe sensations aka feelings, not facts.

Another way to convince you that you've been brainwashed by utter bullshit: if a person and an octopus can become best friends even though they're like aliens from another planet to us, what dictates that the relationship between a black and a white guy should be based on hate? I tell you what does: religion. Fucking religion, I hate it so much I want to bathe in the blood of the priests and crush their skulls with a sledgehammer. They're the ones I must hate, not black people. Also not octopuses. We should give them love and care, not oppress / sterilize / exterminate them.

You're just so wrong on so many levels. I'll suck a black dick anytime to prove my point.

 

[sserafim]

I'm an Asian failure and I think that race doesn't matter lol. I failed to launch into the real world after college and I'm a hiki who just stays in my room all day.

 

[Adûnâi]

Also not octopuses. We should give them love and care, not oppress / sterilize / exterminate them.

/insert a video of a Korean lady eating a living octopus, thus proving her species' superiority. Nature is beautiful & cruel (and no, it's not my fetish, but I saw it years ago).

 

[The Burning Fool]

/insert a video of a Korean lady eating a living octopus, thus proving her species' superiority. Nature is beautiful & cruel (and no, it's not my fetish, but I saw it years ago).

Yeah I know, we keep doing this disgusting crap for a quintillion years or so until all of us morph into a god together. We are the universe, the newborn power, merely a 10 days old baby in human time, thrashing and crying because we just pooped our diapers and it stings. Love is the ultimate answer but we're all way too blind to see how any of it should work at this point.

 

[MundaneMoths]

This post will probably be deleted, but here we go...
View attachment 130346
I'm a 22-year old, African-American male...and I think my race might be inferior.

First off, I'll admit I've never lived the stereotypical "black experience". I didn't grow up poor or in "the hood" or whatever. I was raised upper-middle class by parents who were both college-educated and had high-paying corporate jobs. I've also been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome, and throughout my life I've been characterized as very bright compared to my peers. Even despite my "outlier" status among black people, I still took pride in my race. I was "woke". I studied African history and culture in my spare time, and encouraged others to do the same. I championed the cause of racial equality and social justice online. I marched with protestors during 2020. I believed that the goal of uplifting black people in America and around the world was achievable, and I wanted to dedicate my life to it.

As any person deeply involved in online culture wars, I was always aware of "race realism". I had previously dismissed as nothing more than blatant Nazi propaganda. But in the interest of intellectual honesty, as someone who wants to study race and social science, I felt like the research needed to be fairly evaluated. I fully expected to come out the other side with my previously-held values intact...

...I didn't

You don't know what a gut-punch feels like until you're reading credible scientific studies proving you're part of a lower race. That the crime and dysfunction in your community is not a passing phenomenon, but is literally coded into many of our genes. That "smartness" isn't something you get by working hard or going to a good school, but something you're born with. That evolution has doomed the majority of people who look like you to a life of poverty and destitution. That the people who subjected your ancestors to the worst injustices in history were all proven right in the end. That your intelligence isn't a validation of the ideal of racial equality, but a statistical outlier, a confounding variable, an exception to the rule. How are you supposed to process that information?

I can't. I haven't been able to stop thinking about it. I feel like I've been force-fed something I'm not supposed to eat. I feel like everything I've ever known was a lie. I've been losing sleep for the past month. I can't operate normally in society anymore knowing all this information. I can't tell anyone because they'll think I've gone crazy or that i'm some kind of ebony Hitler

I know that if the world finds out about this, they're going to kill us. We'll be forcefully sterilized, and segregated from society just like during Jim Crow.

I don't want to live in that world. Which is why I'm probably going to end my life.

I'm a geneticist. Just gonna say, the level of melanin in your skin absolutely has nothing to do with intelligence or capability. You might recognize this from the success of your parents. It's all relative, genes are not condemnations they are merely guidelines. Environment plays an extremely important role. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. The "blacks" are not inferior, they have just been pushed down in society and thus as a group have more movement in life than whites. I'm sorry you're feeling lost, many of us, indiscriminate of skin color, just cannot handle the asks that life gives us. That's okay. But it has nothing to do with race. You may be susceptible to certain factors in life such as disease susceptibility or what have you, but intelligence is not correlated with skin color. At all.

And dude, the fact you can articulate this post at all makes your cognitive abilities far greater than most people. I haven't looked at your links for your "sources" but I imagine they are a bit bias. Race, first and foremost, is not real. It's an invention by racists to build power. The amount of melanin in your skin is a relatively simple gene, and is not linked to intelligence . The reason crime is so high in black communities is because of their environment, not their genes. I don't. Want to get mad at you but I really want you to realize this is not real data you're looking into, just the interpretation of some racists who don't understand nuance of systemic racism

 

[Aergia]

I know that if the world finds out about this, they're going to kill us. We'll be forcefully sterilized, and segregated from society just like during Jim Crow.

I highly doubt there's any danger of this happening—

1) Like others have pointed out, current scientific consensus is opposed to the existence of race realism and (the significance of) IQ differences between races. Regardless of whether you think that's because it's the truth or whether it's because contemporary American culture just doesn't find the alternative palatable— good modern scientists haven't espoused this position simply because they're unfamiliar with the relevant literature.

2) Like obligatoryshackles said, there are other factors that contribute to one's success and value to society. IQ is just a relatively good heuristic for the former. African-Americans have contributed considerably to American culture (in the form of art, literature and music, for instance) and it would be unreasonable to argue that these contributions aren't significant just because they're not correlated to IQ in some way.

3) Even if most people did hold that a certain group was genetically inferior, the idea that it's morally permissible to control the reproduction of a certain group on the basis of perceived genetic inferiority is a pretty big claim that isn't going to find much backing in the current culture, and the idea that's it's morally permissible to persecute said group certainly won't be favoured (and rightfully so). Governments don't persecute or control the reproduction of people with heritable diseases or disorders— that'd be unethical.

4) Race is just a heuristic for IQ and other traits. Might be an odd angle from which to look at it but even if people and governments suddenly decided eugenics was moral, it'd make more sense for eugenicists to discriminate based on IQ and the MAOA gene themselves, instead of a heuristic.

I'm not going to dispute claims about the existence of race or IQ group differences (I'm inclined to agree with them), but I think the big question here isn't whether these differences exist, but how much it actually, in a material sense, matters if they do. And I think the answer is, not a lot. You've said that you consider yourself an outlier, and you seem to be satisfied with your individual intelligence and class background— so I think the worry this subject is causing you is unwarranted, and I really am sorry to hear that it's what's brought you here. I think the fact that you were able to change your mind about racial differences initially means you're probably open to changing your mind about the material significance of it all, and I hope that you consider it.

 

[Adûnâi]

I'm a geneticist. Just gonna say, the level of melanin in your skin absolutely has nothing to do with intelligence or capability.

The level of melanin also correlates with your jaw shape, tooth shape, bone structure, eye colour, and a trillion other things I'm too stupid and uneducated to talk about. But intelligence is the miracle given by Yeshua the crucified God, of course. Like soul. We all have souls, all souls are equal as Apostle Paul told us in Galatians 3:28. So that's why all races ae equal in intelligence, too! Checkmate, atheists!

...But where's the science? (In short: racial equality is a fundamentalist Christian idea that goes against Darwin. Darwin was killed in Berlin in 1945. And that's synecdoche.)

 

[BeedyBee]

I'll meet you where you are. I doubt any sources I can cite or anything I can say will change your mind about the conclusions you've arrived at yourself

Please cite all the sources you can. I would love to be disproven but I'm just afraid I might be too far down the rabbit hole

And why is intelligence so important in this case? Even if a race is inferior in one aspect, surely there are other aspects of them that may not be. Just look at how much American culture is dependent on black culture. Look how many Olympic world record athletes are black. Creativity, imagination, discipline, athleticism, all important measures that aren't directly tied to intelligence.

We don't live in a society where athletic ability is a reliable predictor of success. If we did, Ethiopia and Kenya would be first-world countries by now, but they aren't. Right now, currently, the "success" of a society or specific community is assessed based around its levels of economic mobility, educational attainment, middle-class productivity. Metrics that the black community in the United States and Africa as a whole lags behind in.

Just gonna say, the level of melanin in your skin absolutely has nothing to do with intelligence or capability

I'm not a moron. Obviously it doesn't. The question is whether or not different populations, which lived on different continents and by extension in different environments for thousands of years, evolved different levels of intelligence in response to different pressures in the same way they evolved to have different skin colors.

 

[MundaneMoths]

I'm not a moron. Obviously it doesn't. The question is whether or not different populations, which lived on different continents and by extension in different environments for thousands of years, evolved different levels of intelligence in response to different pressures in the same way they evolved to have different skin colors.

I think on a macro population scale, of course, we will see pretty stark differences with different "races" or ethnicities. Certain people can digest starch better than other, same with lactose, and those minor details definitely have genetic origin. so for very small minor phenotypes, genetics are very important but behavior and intelligence is not so simple.

We need to first define what "intelligence" is to even have this discussion. It tends to mean different things to different people and is more of a broad term than anything discreet. Do you generally mean "fitness"? Because fitness isn't a static thing either, a fitness of an individual can differ depending on the environment. So intelligence as a measure of fitness could work here, but that's very dependent on immediate environment. A frog will flourish in a marsh, but will shrivel and die if the marsh dries up. A person born in a small village in the Congo would likely thrive if you put them into a good schooling system and gave them their bare necessities like food and warmth and entertainment.

 

[obligatoryshackles]

Please cite all the sources you can. I would love to be disproven but I'm just afraid I might be too far down the rabbit hole

Are you sure you're not just looking to affirm your own positions by looking at and finding reasons to dismiss studies that contradict what you currently believe? It's a deeply emotional topic, and I can't imagine I would be able to escape that trap if I was in your place. As it is with these kinds of things, emotion often precedes logic - we use our reasoning ability to justify and rationalize conclusions we've arrived at emotionally. The fact is, you can basically come to any conclusion you want if you do your research in a certain way, especially for nebulous, unsolved but popular topics such as those involving genetics and intelligence where there are literally thousands upon thousands of papers on the topic.

Regardless, I'll maybe see what I can do, though it may take a while. If you have a more comprehensive list of sources for me (or anyone else in the thread!) to dispute, that would help.

We don't live in a society where athletic ability is a reliable predictor of success. If we did, Ethiopia and Kenya would be first-world countries by now, but they aren't. Right now, currently, the "success" of a society or specific community is assessed based around its levels of economic mobility, educational attainment, middle-class productivity. Metrics that the black community in the United States and Africa as a whole lags behind in.

The point isn't to look at athletic ability specifically, but to look at any factor other than intelligence. Athletic ability just happens to be a more obvious example in this case, though admittedly it's not too useful if you're concerned with material success. But it's likely that intelligence also isn't the most important factor in determining material success.

However, it is certainly, undeniably true that the black community in the US today is substantially behind basically every other ethnicity economically, and that Africa on the whole also lags behind the first world. From a purely results based discussion it wouldn't be unreasonable to conclude that black people are just worse, but we can't just ignore cause and effect.

We could discuss the many factors, simple and complex, that have likely contributed to modern state of things: the 300 years of colonialism and imperialism which continue to this day, the still lingering effects of slavery, the fact that not even a full human life time ago black people didn't legally have equal rights in the US and how that plays into generational wealth, a culture born in a world where success was literally not allowed, the soft economic sanctions the largest economies in the world placed on rising black nations to preserve their own power, and so on and so forth - things I imagine you studied yourself. I don't have the best sources/examples on hand for these right now, but if you're interested I can look a little deeper.

But I think it's also useful to look at it from a more historical perspective. Why should we look only at what's going on today? Humanity has existed for a long time before you and I were born, after all, and the dominance of European cultures only really began after the middle ages with the age of exploration, barely 500 years ago. I believe we shouldn't just draw conclusions based on the state of things based solely on the present, the last hundred years, or even the last 500 years when human societies have arguably existed for over 10,000 years. For example, 5000 years ago, when grand dynasties and pyramids were built in Egypt, most of the ancestors of contemporarily white people were still hunter gatherers in northern Europe. When the bronze age collapse happened, it wasn't the white, European societies that survived, but Egypt (and the middle east). For over 3000 years, Egypt was one of the most dominant cultures on earth. If you looked at the world during any of that time, wouldn't you conclude that it was white people, not black people, who are inferior?


Admittedly this response is a little all over the place, so I apologize, but I don't really have the capacity to do more at this very moment.

 

[Guy Smiley]

The level of melanin also correlates with your jaw shape, tooth shape, bone structure, eye colour, and a trillion other things I'm too stupid and uneducated to talk about.

Wow, I never thought I would read anything posted by you that is true!

 

[Malaria]

My belief is that if anyone commits a crime, only that individual should be held accountable. A black person commits a crime? Okay, punish them, not every black person. This goes for any other race. You don't deserve to be treated poorly because of the color of your skin. No one does. I know Current Year is a meme, but it genuinely bothers me how to this day we still have conversations like this because it tells me we as a species have learned nothing from history. People are just as racist as they always have been, and it makes me sad. Maybe its just human nature? I dunno. If treating people poorly because of their skin color is human nature, then human nature sucks.

I know what it's like to hate yourself and feel like you're inferior because of traits you didn't even choose. It's so painful. If it looks like I'm judging you for feeling the way you do, please understand I'm not, my frustration is coming from a place of having been there myself and angry I even felt that way about my own race, gender, sexual orientation, disabilities, etc, to begin with. And angry that other people know that pain too. It's an awful feeling.

 

[BeedyBee]

 

[zengiraffe]

This is a good video that debunks the book The Bell Curve (which is a book that attempts to argue that different races have different IQs):

 

[Tobacco]

I believe in what you say but I don't see how it would justify cruel treatment from others. But I also understand being politically concerned with what a raging mob would do ethnically targeting people based on this information. It's just a bad world in general, that's why I'm antinatalist.

 

[Camper]

I don't deny the IQ, genetic, personality, or health differences between races. We already know that race is not skin deep. https://bethematch.org/transplant-b...a-patients-ethnic-background-affect-matching/

However, as a white person, I completely reject the notion that I'm inferior to Asians. We are simply better skilled at different things. We have different ways of life. I'm attached to the culture I have, regardless of my alleged intellectual inferiority. And frankly, I have plenty to be proud of. I'm not as well-versed in African culture as you seem to be, but I'd imagine Africans are more accomplished in certain areas compared to others. We all bring something to the table.

Here's something to think about. Up until the 1970s, Asia had a lower GDP than Africa.

The recent history of the global economy, in one chart

In 1950, the average African had almost twice as much income as the average Asian. Today, that's just about reversed.

qz.com

UNU-WIDER : Blog : How Asia transformed from the poorest continent in the world into a global economic powerhouse

In 1820, Asia accounted for two-thirds of the world’s population and more than one-half of global income. The subsequent decline of Asia was attributed to its integration with a world economy shaped by colonialism and driven by imperialism. By the late 1960s, Asia was the poorest continent in...

www.wider.unu.edu

Why is this? There are clearly things going on here that aren't related to the genetics of the people involved.

 

[obligatoryshackles]

So you're citing Richard Haier now, famous only for being a signee of the entirely unscientific document Mainstream Science on Intelligence, speaking on a podcast hosted by Lex Fridman, known grifter and white supremacist? If you're that far up your own (confirmation bi)ass, then fuck it, who cares?

Like, if you aren't actually doing research then why are we even having this conversation? It's pretty clear that all you want to do at this point is affirm your own position of internalized racism. You pick and choose who you believe based on whether they agree with you or not. You're dismissing the entire scientific community because you think they're operating on an agenda based on modern dogma based on a "false" belief in equality, but deliberately ignore the white supremacist agenda behind the people you cite. You know those same people believe that they're superior to Asians too, right? Tell me where you see Asians on that graph from The Bell Curve. You somehow have come to see yourself as superior to your own peers, citing your "intelligence" as if that somehow validates your position. You made this post because you think that anyone who tries to argue against you, you can take apart with your "intelligence". Oh, and as a bonus, if they can, they're just proving your point by affirming your "inferiority"! You literally can't lose!

You're scared that white people, the people in power, will realize the "truth" of racial superiority and persecute you?

WAKE UP IDIOT, THE PEOPLE WHO WOULD HAPPILY DO SAID PERSECUTION ALREADY BELIEVE THIS AND WILL CONTINUE TO BELIEVE IT, WHETHER IT'S TRUE OR NOT.



If you want to kill yourself because you're afraid of America: Racist Ending, then the truth is irrelevant. Go do politics or something. But if you actually care about the truth, stop trying to come to conclusions by citing other people. Go do your own research, conduct your own studies.

 

[Pessimist]

I think it has more to do with environmental factors and education rather than something genetic. In any case, I don't think there is a good reason to discriminate against a particular race, nor can it be done morally.

 

[damyon]

How are you supposed to process that information? [...] I know that if the world finds out about this, they're going to kill us

It seems that you don't want the notion of the bell curve can be used against you.
That is a valid emotion to experience. The bell curve does exist, and so does the ability to utilize it to one's advantage.

If we define race as a collection of genetic traits, then it undeniably exists. Humans possess varied genetic compositions, leading to distinctions among groups. Those sets of genes can be as simple as skin color, head shape, bone structure, and eye color. IQ could have been a secondary characteristic that emerged after the races were defined and differentiated. And, on average, we also observed the difference in that metric across different races.

In politics, it's a common tactic to employ provocative ideas to generate a large following. Historically, religious differences have been exploited for this purpose. Do the people of power care about fighting for the truth or guiding the herd to achieve their goals? The latter seems more probable. Can racial differences be used as a weapon? Definitely, that is also used now as the US approaches the elections, although it is not taken to the extreme as in Nazi Germany.

To answer your question, you should only utilize that information If it becomes a threat to your existence. You are still alive. You display great analytical abilities and you should utilize them to your advantage.


~~~~~

they have just been pushed down in society and thus as a group have more movement in life than whites

This agrees with my own opinion: negatives associated with race are self-fulfilling prophecies. Confirmation bias is largely at play here, too. I do not blame people for this—this thinking helped them in the past to avoid danger in general. But times are changing, and I believe people should pause and reassess whether there is a better approach than the one currently in use.

I think it would be best for you to maybe stay off the internet for a bit, since I'm guessing that's where a lot of your new ideas on race are probably coming from...

I agree with this. It may change your perspective on things a little bit, OP.

At the end of the day, most of the disparging things you were talking about in regards to black people apply to every racial group

My belief is that if anyone commits a crime, only that individual should be held accountable. A black person commits a crime? Okay, punish them, not every black person. This goes for any other race.

Why do you think a race should be persecuted just for being inferior in some way?

This is what you should read, OP. You will not be punished for "people who look like you"'s wrongdoings. Biases exist against every race, but smart people do not act upon them.
If your race is inferior on average in IQ and superior on average in physical ability, there is no reason for other people to persecute you for it as long as you apply your abilities in the right direction. You are simply skilled at different things on average, as @Camper noted, and you have something to bring to the table.

The scientific community doesn't like their conclusion because they're wrong. Again, race is a social construct.

I think one of the more fallacious ideas that prevails among people today is that our modern liberal and egalitarian values are somehow "objective" and not just another man-made dogma meant to govern society the same way religion used to.

As was stated in previous replies, according to modern science, the concept of race is almost certainly a social construct, not a biological reality

The definition, which is sometimes wrongful, is a social construct. The usage of race is a social construct. However, biological race, as we understand it, is not a construct but a reality.
The word only has as much power as you put into it.

Even the article you (OP) linked doesn't make this claim. It says, [...]

I agree. OP should read the studies more carefully next time. I would add that one should also not cherry-pick the conclusions from one study but try to find systematic reviews. Unfortunately, nowadays, it would be difficult to find a nonpoliticized scientific article on this issue since it can be twisted in both ways.

WAKE UP IDIOT, THE PEOPLE WHO WOULD HAPPILY DO SAID PERSECUTION ALREADY BELIEVE THIS AND WILL CONTINUE TO BELIEVE IT, WHETHER IT'S TRUE OR NOT.

This is it, OP. The persecution is already ongoing. The problem is that someone can add fuel to the fire, but at least you are aware of it now.


~~~

I liked reading your ideas, @Adûnâi . You appeared as a beacon of knowledge blazing out across a black sea of ignorance.

Maybe all russians actually think alike... - russians as in Slavs as in a subrace within the white race.

~~~

some kind of ebony Hitler

Offtopic: just remembered seeing that news a few years ago https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-55173605

 

[Unicr0n]

While IQ is mostly determined by genetics, the environment that you grew up in can still have an impact on your score

It's not going to move you even close to one SD higher. Environment's not going to help you much.

At the end of the day, the high rates of crime and poverty within black communities in places like the US are a reflection of systematic issues

Interesting how despite only making up 20% of the poverty population, we commit over 50% of the violent crime.

Evolution hasn't doomed anyone because race isn't a thing. It's a social construct.

An African has a greater genetic SNP difference to a Japanese man than a coyote has to a wolf.

Issues with poverty and crime are common amongst marginalized racial communities

It's common against ALL groups of any colour, not just minorities LOL.

And yet, according to antiquated theory, people of Asian descent are supposed to be the smartest.

Actually, Jews score higher on average than even Asians.

In regard to the idea that people of African descent have a genetic predisposition for violence, there is no credible research to substantiate this.

Crime statistics demonstrate that AFRICAN AMERICANS have a higher violence rate. NOT Africans. There's a huge difference there. Don't lump us together with African Americans who barely have any African left in them in terms of culture and heritage. Most African americans are at least 25% white btw.

Slavery wasn't wrong because the justification for it was based on falsehoods, it was wrong because it's a moral atrocity when done to anyone. I

Slavery isn't "right or wrong", it simply is. Humans assign the label of "moral atrocity" but that doesn't mean it actually is. Morals are opinions, not facts.

And why is intelligence so important in this case? Even if a race is inferior in one aspect, surely there are other aspects of them that may not be. Just look at how much American culture is dependent on black culture. Look how many Olympic world record athletes are black. Creativity, imagination, discipline, athleticism, all important measures that aren't directly tied to intelligence.

Here here.

Maybe the crime statistics tell you that a race is more dangerous to society, so they should be put down.

Why would we put them down? If we put a group of people down based on violence statistics, 50% of the population [males] would be put down.

Exactly! The right-wingers are making a mistake lying by omission - they consider some populations inferior by virtue of having some arbitrary characteristics they've selected as unwanted.

That's really disgusting of you to basically put the racist label on the right wing. You do know that the Democrats were the ones who fought to keep slavery a thing [there was no party switch, big lie]? That the Democrats created the KKK? That Obama was called "one of the good ones" by Joe Biden? That Joe Biden himself was friends with the KKK leader? That he himself is a racist? That Times Magazine [leftist publication] praised Hitler as man of the year? That Hitler got many of his policies against blacks and jews from the Democrats and their treatment of slaves?

The "blacks" are not inferior, they have just been pushed down in society and thus as a group have more movement in life than whites. I'm sorry you're feeling lost, many of us, indiscriminate of skin color, just cannot handle the asks that life gives us. That's okay. But it has nothing to do with race. You may be susceptible to certain factors in life such as disease susceptibility or what have you, but intelligence is not correlated with skin color. At all.

100% true

The amount of melanin in your skin is a relatively simple gene,

Melanin is polygenic.

lism which continue to this day, the still lingering effects of slavery, the fact that not even a full human life time ago black people didn't legally have equal rights in the US and how that plays into generational wealth,

I wish people would stop using the United States as an example of slavery. The US received ~2% of the total slaves. The USA received its slaves from South America, where ~98% of slaves were sold to. That's why Africans were called negros. Because USA bought them from Mexicans. The majority of slaves in America were house slaves, meant to help out the house wives. 10% were field slaves. Field slaves hated house slaves. All slaves were treated better than what you might believe. A slave was expensive and injuring one would cost you a lot of money. Ironically, Native American slave owners treated their slaves heinously [yes, they owned Africans, too!].

For over 3000 years, Egypt was one of the most dominant cultures on earth. If you looked at the world during any of that time, wouldn't you conclude that it was white people, not black people, who are inferior?

Egyptians would raze your house if they found you calling them Black. They don't consider themselves Black and don't ever want to be compared to African Americans.

 

[1MiserableGuy]

This post will probably be deleted, but here we go...
View attachment 130346
I'm a 22-year old, African-American male...and I think my race might be inferior.

First off, I'll admit I've never lived the stereotypical "black experience". I didn't grow up poor or in "the hood" or whatever. I was raised upper-middle class by parents who were both college-educated and had high-paying corporate jobs. I've also been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome, and throughout my life I've been characterized as very bright compared to my peers.

Even despite my "outlier" status among black people, I still took pride in my race. I was "woke". I studied African history and culture in my spare time, and encouraged others to do the same. I championed the cause of racial equality and social justice online. I marched with protestors during 2020. I believed that the goal of uplifting black people in America and around the world was achievable, and I wanted to dedicate my life to it.

As any person deeply involved in online culture wars, I was always aware of "race realism". I had previously dismissed as nothing more than blatant Nazi propaganda. But in the interest of intellectual honesty, as someone who wants to study race and social science, I felt like the research needed to be fairly evaluated. I fully expected to come out the other side with my previously-held values intact...

...I didn't

You don't know what a gut-punch feels like until you're reading credible scientific studies proving you're part of a lower race. That the crime and dysfunction in your community is not a passing phenomenon, but is literally coded into many of our genes. That "smartness" isn't something you get by working hard or going to a good school, but something you're born with. That evolution has doomed the majority of people who look like you to a life of poverty and destitution. That the people who subjected your ancestors to the worst injustices in history were all proven right in the end. That your intelligence isn't a validation of the ideal of racial equality, but a statistical outlier, a confounding variable, an exception to the rule. How are you supposed to process that information?

I can't. I haven't been able to stop thinking about it. I feel like I've been force-fed something I'm not supposed to eat. I feel like everything I've ever known was a lie. I've been losing sleep for the past month. I can't operate normally in society anymore knowing all this information. I can't tell anyone because they'll think I've gone crazy or that i'm some kind of ebony Hitler

I know that if the world finds out about this, they're going to kill us. We'll be forcefully sterilized, and segregated from society just like during Jim Crow.

I don't want to live in that world. Which is why I'm probably going to end my life.

In January, my old man and I (both white) took a couple day trip to the Mississippi delta, where about 61% of the population is black. Would strongly recommend that to any blues music enthusiasts like myself. In Clarksdale, the lower class, black population were some of the kindest, most authentic people I've ever had the fortune of meeting. But if you drove up two hours north into Memphis, the same exact demographic could not be relaxed around. These two cities are quite close to each other and culturally similar in lots of ways. But in the case of Clarksdale, a certain since of community exists that does not in Memphis. There are more people than jobs in Memphis, and when there are no jobs for people to take, they turn to a life of crime.