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Pluto

Pluto

Meowing to go out
Dec 27, 2020
4,163
Part I

Perhaps ironically, it is the religion of Taoism that says it best. According to legendary Chinese philosopher Lao Tzu in around the 4th century BCE:

The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao;
The name that can be named is not the eternal name.


1 YvY saV j9HZYfLrvqhj0Q

That's it. The whole story. However, if a further explanation is wanted, we need to start from the beginning.

Why was Religion Invented?
Firstly, religions have existed for as long as people were present with the cognitive capacity to create them. The Dreamtime of Aboriginal Australia dates back as far as 65,000 years according to one source. It included the classic religious elements such as creation myths, rituals, moral frameworks, marriages, death ceremonies and teachings about the afterlife.

Perhaps we can unpack the existence of religion by looking at the problems that it intended to solve. These may include 1) a lack of explanation for existence, 2) a desire for a bigger-picture purpose for human life, 3) a need for a structure of rules to live by and 4) the craving for assurances regarding the afterlife. In turn, each of these addresses a discomfort in the human mind. Respectively, we have 1) Confusion over existing at all, 2) pain over suffering, 3) uncertainty about how to live and 4) fear of death.

Switching back to Eastern philosophy, this confusion/pain/uncertainty/fear can be unified, as all are forms of duḥkha, a Sanskrit word that can be translated as 'suffering', 'unease', 'pain', 'sorrow', 'restlessness' or 'unsatisfactoriness'. According to Buddhism, this is fundamental to the human condition. All attempts at alleviating suffering in the material world (for example relationships or wealth) are from this perspective merely a temporary evasion.

The Sorrow Solution
Thus, religion serves as a means of solving the most fundamental human problem of suffering. This is clearer if we do not get lost in superficial differences in terminology or narrative. For example, Christian words like 'sin' and 'heaven' correspond respectively to 'ignorance' and 'enlightenment' in Buddhist nomenclature.

In each case, venerated historical figures claimed by followers to have visionary perspectives gave rise to these various religions. But not only have religions failed to bring about any grand-scale upliftment of the species, but religion has actually been a central component of many of our barbaric acts of violence.

So now for the big question: why has religion failed? I am going to argue that we can still be open to the real possibility that suffering can be ended in this lifetime, but there are countless traps which can massively delay the process.

The Many Traps
1) Doubt: assuming we all agree with the notion that 'life is suffering' based on our own living experience, the question arises of whether there really is a way out. This Buddhist claim could be a giant con to enslave the masses with false hopes of a better tomorrow. Alas, I'm not giving a direct answer here. If the answer is yes, for as long as we are suffering, this will at best be a mere intellectual belief. If the answer is no, that's another belief. But being open to the possibility is a prerequisite for taking any further steps.

2) Tribalism: just like dolphin schools and bird flocks, humans have tribes. It is a primordial impulse that evolved because surviving alone is impossible, especially if the goal includes procreation, defense and so on. Even in modern times, we see the devastating psychological impact of social isolation on individuals. We desperately need to belong. Unfortunately, this leaves us with all the ingredients of religious tribalism. "Only my God is the true God." And yet, it cannot be said that, for example, the Israelites and Palestinians have successfully eradicated suffering. Not by any stretch.

1520118738990
3) False leadership: just as wolf packs are lead by 'alphas', another primitive human trait is submitting to dominance hierarchies. In extreme examples, the narcissist-enabler dynamics result in Jonestown-style disasters. Most cases are milder, yet the same issue of unqualified leadership and ignorant compliance by the social group remains. There's a further grey area when the religious leader may possess useful knowledge or even some genuine spiritual insight, yet is still being driven by egocentric motivations (adulation, power, wealth). Bad things can happen behind closed doors.

4) Laziness: we want others to think for us. This relates somewhat to the previous point. In a way, being a signed-up member of any firm belief system (religious or irreligious) and then repeating its usual groupthink talking points ad nauseam is a slothful shortcut to avoid engaging with the challenges of this topic.

5) False awakening: being satisfied with a special belief system, an idea about the divine or some purportedly lofty perspectives about society means being 'awake' to some people, but this is still just a different set of ideas in the mind. Nothing has been truly transcended and nobody should settle for this. Religions also offer congregations, friendships and other goodies, but rarely will they encourage followers to strive for true liberation.

6) Confusion: passing all the aforementioned hurdles means we are now functioning independently on a truly authentic search for the holy grail: a radical revelation of a timeless truth. But now what? Hundreds of purportedly enlightened voices are speaking, offering conflicting advice and making unverifiable claims. This leads us back to our old friend, the Tao ("the way").

...To be continued due to post already way too long.
 
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mortuarymary

mortuarymary

Enlightened
Jan 17, 2024
1,363
It fails because if there was a god then why all this suffering throughout the world.
 
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Bianka

Bianka

No longer human
Jan 16, 2024
179
Very interesting intelligent and collected article supported by facts and observations . Thank you
 
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Pluto

Pluto

Meowing to go out
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4,163
It fails because if there was a god then why all this suffering throughout the world.
The classic question.

Funnily enough, someone on Reddit just had a big shift of consciousness recently and gave the answer better than I could.
 
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Bianka

Bianka

No longer human
Jan 16, 2024
179
@mortuarymary
I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to religion but christianity for example writes it off as a test
 
Pluto

Pluto

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@mortuarymary
I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to religion but christianity for example writes it off as a test
That's right, the mainstream interpretation of Christianity involves a test. Though it can also be interpreted very differently.

The situation reminds me of a story from the ashram of Ramana Maharshi (the early 20th century Hindu saint). A young follower came up with a bold plan to broadcast Ramana's message to the whole world and enlighten everyone. However, he was admonished by an elder for a simple reason: the more that the message is made palatable for the masses, the more corrupted it becomes. Thus, keeping the message pure and accepting the limited number of devotees was considered the wisest course.

This brings us back to Christianity. It has perhaps been made more mainstream than any other, but at what cost to the original message? Let's see...

* Take God the angry parent, or Jesus the Santa Claus who will reward us if we've been good boys and girls. Is this not directly exploiting the psychology of our primordial parent-child relationships?
* Or take heaven and hell. Is this not tapping into our fantasy of feeling good all the time, or our deepest fear of eternal abandonment/pain?
* Or the whole crusade against random minorities like the LGBT community. Is this not shamelessly appealing to us-vs.-them tribalism as described earlier? The list goes on but you get the idea. A Sigmund Freud quote sums it up:

OIP
Then there's the issue that Christianity spread historically through bloodshed and colonialism. For example, if a genuinely spiritual person and and a lunatic with a gun meet, the lunatic will 'win' and his crazy religious ideas will propagate. But does this process of 'might is right' really make for the truest religion?

But having said all that, and having roasted mainstream Christianity, I present the alternative interpretation in which everything is interpreted as allegory. The devil is the force of the ego that keeps us trapped in a deluded state of mind-identification. Hell is the suffering we feel when experiencing separation from our divine true nature. Heaven/God is the revelation (in direct experience, not intellectual agreement) of the 'Good News' that oneness is the only true reality. Jesus overcame death/suffering (crucifixion) through sacrifice and surrender, which is analogous to the Hero's Journey of the authentic spiritual path.

A number of Jesus quotes blatantly point towards the same universal oneness.
"I and the father are one." (John 10:30)
"...whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me." (Matthew 25:40 )

Better yet, the branch known as Christian Mysticism already knows all this. A 20th century Catholic nun named Bernadette Roberts achieved the advanced state of awakening known as 'no-self', yet her teachings were all disseminated using the terminology, symbology and nomenclature of the Christian tradition. Read what she has to say and judge for yourself if she's enlightened. There are videos of her on YouTube, too.

What is the point of all this? Mainstream stuff sucks, with religion the worst offender. But there's no need to discard the baby with the bathwater.
 
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Pluto

Pluto

Meowing to go out
Dec 27, 2020
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Lately has been quite turbulent here. Lots of losses - reputation, community, income. Impermanence. I figured I'd try and put myself back into a lofty philosophical space by belatedly cobbling together a part 2 of this topic.

Part I

...
6) Confusion: passing all the aforementioned hurdles means we are now functioning independently on a truly authentic search for the holy grail: a radical revelation of a timeless truth. But now what? Hundreds of purportedly enlightened voices are speaking, offering conflicting advice and making unverifiable claims. This leads us back to our old friend, the Tao ("the way").

Part II

What appears to be advanced thus far.

1) The Belief: Religion can serve purely a psychological purpose - binding communities under a common belief system or soothing an individual's existential anxiety - but this has nothing to do with any particular belief being true OR untrue. As Voltaire once remarked, "If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent Him."

2) The Holy Grail: All authentic religions claim that there is an ultimate solution to the human condition - heaven, enlightenment, etc.

3) The Pivot: The ultimate religious claim of heaven/enlightenment could serve a psychological purpose: the fuel of hope to soldier on through the mud of mundanity believing that one day it will all have been worth it. Or the claim could actually be true, with radical implications.

4) The Journey: A meaningful outcome from this point requires the following ingredients: a) enlightenment must be a real attainable thing, b) the individual must be open enough to initiate a pathway to it, yet must c) not get sucked into the tribal us-versus-them trap of religion, d) not be misled by any false guru, e) not be fooled any sort of phony enlightenment.

Images 1

The Rare One
Clearly, this is a rare sequence, yet not impossible. However, even if someone does reach enlightenment, they have attained something that is completely indescribable ("the Tao that can be spoken..."), they have a radically different perspective of the same old world, and even if they were inclined to speak out, their message would be mis-heard by almost everyone - even those actively striving to achieve the same state.

As a starting point, the message tends to include elements such as 1) the separate individual self which we normally identify with being a total illusion, 2) true nature without the distraction or imprisonment of the false ego-self being a state of oneness, harmony, perfection, timelessness, limitlessness and perfect love. Let's look at some examples.

When Religion Succeeds
"In things spiritual, there is no partition, no number, no individuals. How sweet is the oneness-unearth the treasure of Unity."
-Rumi, Islamic Mystic

"......at this point the self has obviously outworn its function; it is no longer needed or useful, and life can go on without it. we are ready to move on, to go beyond the self, beyond even its most intimate union with God, and this is where we enter yet another new life- a life best categorized, perhaps, as a life without a self."
- Bernadette Roberts, Christian Mystic (pictured)

Bernadette Roberts

"Why do heaven and Earth last forever? They are unborn, so ever living. The sage stays behind, thus he is ahead. He is detached, thus at one with all."
Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

"Because a man identifies himself with the body he sees the world separate from him. This wrong identification arises because he has lost his moorings and has swerved from his original state. He is now advised to give up all these false ideas, to trace back his source and remain as the Self. In that state, there are no differences. No questions will arise."
Ramana Maharshi, Hindu saint
NOTE: Self with a capital 'S' refers to ultimate universal reality in Hindu terminology, as opposed to the non-existent individual self.

"...the conception of "I" exists, dependent on mind and body, but like the image of a face, the "I" does not at all exist as its own reality."
Nagarjuna, Buddhist scholar

"Consciousness is already free of everything that remotely resembles a self."
Sam Harris, atheist

...To be continued due to post (again) too long. But will end here with an Adyashanti quote.
E410d1d8cd84cc704cf3ce919219846b
 
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targz

targz

Member
Feb 22, 2023
95
It fails because if there was a god then why all this suffering throughout the world.
The general defence is that it must be for a reason beyond our understanding, which I think is insufficient for most of us :)
 
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DarkRange55

DarkRange55

I am Skynet
Oct 15, 2023
1,855
That's right, the mainstream interpretation of Christianity involves a test. Though it can also be interpreted very differently.

The situation reminds me of a story from the ashram of Ramana Maharshi (the early 20th century Hindu saint). A young follower came up with a bold plan to broadcast Ramana's message to the whole world and enlighten everyone. However, he was admonished by an elder for a simple reason: the more that the message is made palatable for the masses, the more corrupted it becomes. Thus, keeping the message pure and accepting the limited number of devotees was considered the wisest course.

This brings us back to Christianity. It has perhaps been made more mainstream than any other, but at what cost to the original message? Let's see...

* Take God the angry parent, or Jesus the Santa Claus who will reward us if we've been good boys and girls. Is this not directly exploiting the psychology of our primordial parent-child relationships?
* Or take heaven and hell. Is this not tapping into our fantasy of feeling good all the time, or our deepest fear of eternal abandonment/pain?
* Or the whole crusade against random minorities like the LGBT community. Is this not shamelessly appealing to us-vs.-them tribalism as described earlier? The list goes on but you get the idea. A Sigmund Freud quote sums it up:

Then there's the issue that Christianity spread historically through bloodshed and colonialism. For example, if a genuinely spiritual person and and a lunatic with a gun meet, the lunatic will 'win' and his crazy religious ideas will propagate. But does this process of 'might is right' really make for the truest religion?

But having said all that, and having roasted mainstream Christianity, I present the alternative interpretation in which everything is interpreted as allegory. The devil is the force of the ego that keeps us trapped in a deluded state of mind-identification. Hell is the suffering we feel when experiencing separation from our divine true nature. Heaven/God is the revelation (in direct experience, not intellectual agreement) of the 'Good News' that oneness is the only true reality. Jesus overcame death/suffering (crucifixion) through sacrifice and surrender, which is analogous to the Hero's Journey of the authentic spiritual path.

A number of Jesus quotes blatantly point towards the same universal oneness.
"I and the father are one." (John 10:30)
"...whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me." (Matthew 25:40 )

Better yet, the branch known as Christian Mysticism already knows all this. A 20th century Catholic nun named Bernadette Roberts achieved the advanced state of awakening known as 'no-self', yet her teachings were all disseminated using the terminology, symbology and nomenclature of the Christian tradition. Read what she has to say and judge for yourself if she's enlightened. There are videos of her on YouTube, too.

What is the point of all this? Mainstream stuff sucks, with religion the worst offender. But there's no need to discard the baby with the bathwater.
allegories likes jungian archetypes?

Organized religion or spirituality? How does one even define a nebulous word like spirituality?

🤷‍♀️
 
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Pluto

Pluto

Meowing to go out
Dec 27, 2020
4,163
allegories likes jungian archetypes?

Organized religion or spirituality? How does one even define a nebulous word like spirituality?

🤷‍♀️
Shouldn't be too hard to define. It merely refers to purported metaphysical or immaterial aspects of reality, or claims that consciousness is a more fundamental reality than physicality.

The challenge becomes getting anything of practical value, since both opponents and their religious counterparts are all convinced that they already have all the answers.

A Cup of Tea
Nan-in, a Japanese master during the Meiji era (1868-1912), received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen.

Nan-in served tea. He poured his visitor's cup full, and then kept on pouring.

The professor watched the overflow until he could no longer restrain himself. "It is overflowing! No more will go in!"

"Like this cup," Nan-in said, "you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?"
 
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DarkRange55

DarkRange55

I am Skynet
Oct 15, 2023
1,855
Shouldn't be too hard to define. It merely refers to purported metaphysical or immaterial aspects of reality, or consciousness as a more fundamental reality to physicality.

The challenge becomes getting anything of practical value, since both opponents and their religious counterparts are all convinced that they already have all the answers.

A Cup of Tea
Nan-in, a Japanese master during the Meiji era (1868-1912), received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen.

Nan-in served tea. He poured his visitor's cup full, and then kept on pouring.

The professor watched the overflow until he could no longer restrain himself. "It is overflowing! No more will go in!"

"Like this cup," Nan-in said, "you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?"
I think the word spiritual in common parlance can be a little bit more nebulous. You can have a spiritual experience where you feel interdependent and connected to all living things, you can have a spiritual connection to people in the military because when you get into a helicopter, you all become one. So for some, spirituality has nothing to do with gods or souls. Its more of a pantheistic approach.

The definition of spiritual is rather fickle and nebulous. Author Michael Pollan said, "A very common phenomenon on psychedelics is to have this sense that consciousness is more evenly spread over the world and not just locked in here -points to his head- and that other beings are more alive than we realize and I definitely had that with plants. I felt like I was one character among many in the garden rather than the human overseeing the garden. It was a deep connection to nature than I'd ever felt. I don't think there's anything supernatural about that. I would say it's spiritual in this sense… I assumed that spiritual meant supernatural in some sense. That is had to leave the laws of nature and science. And it was an experience that refuted them by showing you that there was a divine force that you weren't aware of or god or whatever. I didn't buy that. But I came to understand spirituality in a different way… and that was that the opposite of spiritual isn't material as I had thought. The opposite of spiritual is egotistical. In that it is ego and the ego defenses that wall us off from the kinds of really powerful connections that constitute a spiritual experience. I'm talking about the experience of love for someone else or for nature. I'm talking about feeling like you're apart of nature, you have that deep connection with nature. The ego keeps us, know you, puts these walls up it patrols the boundary between self and other. It tends to encourage us to objectify the other and not see that there are other subjects looking back at us all over the world, like a tree. When I came to understand that, that was the opposite, that was having spiritual experiences and they were experiences of deep, powerful connection and that's what I think spirituality is. Now for some people that connection is with some idea of the divinity and higher power and I can totally even see that in a naturalistic sense…"
- Michael Pollen
 
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Pluto

Pluto

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4,163
That's a nice quote. Especially valuable when based on direct experience rather than an inherited belief system. The key is to discard any terminology that is a hindrance to some sort of meaningful insight.

0d0c33b579459d8981ba20de5b829fd8
 
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DarkRange55

DarkRange55

I am Skynet
Oct 15, 2023
1,855
Shouldn't be too hard to define. It merely refers to purported metaphysical or immaterial aspects of reality, or claims that consciousness is a more fundamental reality than physicality.

The challenge becomes getting anything of practical value, since both opponents and their religious counterparts are all convinced that they already have all the answers.

A Cup of Tea
Nan-in, a Japanese master during the Meiji era (1868-1912), received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen.

Nan-in served tea. He poured his visitor's cup full, and then kept on pouring.

The professor watched the overflow until he could no longer restrain himself. "It is overflowing! No more will go in!"

"Like this cup," Nan-in said, "you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?"
For some people poetry, music, art, movies, literature thats their version of spirituality even through they know its completely from the human imagination. For some people pyschodelics and empathogens bring about a feeling of oneness and interconnectivity and some describe that as a form of spirituality. Some people claim to experience inner peace and harmony through meditation, strict diet & disciplined study. For them, that is a sense of spirituality. For some, singing in a choir with your fellow practitioners of generational tradition helps fosters about a sense of community and for some that is spirituality. In some cultures, its a vision quest as a tribal right of passage. For others, it's deep contemplation or even clearing your mind and focusing on the void of nothing. For most, it means a god-oriented or soul-oriented type deal.

There are certain words that are just loaded and very open to personal interpretation. The constraints of language…
 
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Pluto

Pluto

Meowing to go out
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4,163
Perhaps this is because the very word spirit can refer to a particular zeitgeist or a literal synonym for soul. All these things have value in breaking down the barriers of the separate ego-self, at least for short periods.
 
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DarkRange55

DarkRange55

I am Skynet
Oct 15, 2023
1,855
Perhaps this is because the very word spirit can refer to a particular zeitgeist or a literal synonym for soul. All these things have value in breaking down the barriers of the separate ego-self, at least for short periods.
Soul can be both ethereal, and also the expression of the mind. So again, I think there's a lot of personal interpretation that goes into that. 🤷‍♀️
Perhaps this is because the very word spirit can refer to a particular zeitgeist or a literal synonym for soul. All these things have value in breaking down the barriers of the separate ego-self, at least for short periods.
That's interesting that he shows the word site Geist just because there are so many different examples where some turning points in sociology emphasize individualism, and others emphasize collectivism. I'm also thinking of the cultural zeitgeist during the Cold War, which dealt with atomic physicists occupying, the same prestige that computer scientist/AI holds today

What about the ghost in the machine?
That's a nice quote. Especially valuable when based on direct experience rather than an inherited belief system. The key is to discard any terminology that is a hindrance to some sort of meaningful insight.

View attachment 130801
What happens when humanity inevitably merges with machines?
 
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DarkRange55

DarkRange55

I am Skynet
Oct 15, 2023
1,855
Perhaps this is because the very word spirit can refer to a particular zeitgeist or a literal synonym for soul. All these things have value in breaking down the barriers of the separate ego-self, at least for short periods.
Actually, that's a nice way of looking at it. That's very interesting. I'm gonna have to contemplate that for a bit, but I like that.
 
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SmallKoy

SmallKoy

Aficionado
Jan 18, 2024
230
For some people poetry, music, art, movies, literature thats their version of spirituality even through they know its completely from the human imagination. For some people pyschodelics and empathogens bring about a feeling of oneness and interconnectivity and some describe that as a form of spirituality. Some people claim to experience inner peace and harmony through meditation, strict diet & disciplined study. For them, that is a sense of spirituality. For some, singing in a choir with your fellow practitioners of generational tradition helps fosters about a sense of community and for some that is spirituality. In some cultures, its a vision quest as a tribal right of passage. For others, it's deep contemplation or even clearing your mind and focusing on the void of nothing. For most, it means a god-oriented or soul-oriented type deal.

There are certain words that are just loaded and very open to personal interpretation. The constraints of language…
A bit random, but I wanted to say that your posts are always very informative and thought provoking to me! I appreciate the time you take to write them.
 
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DarkRange55

DarkRange55

I am Skynet
Oct 15, 2023
1,855
A bit random, but I wanted to say that your posts are always very informative and thought provoking to me! I appreciate the time you take to write them.
Well thats very kind of you, thank you so much! Admittedly I'm not a spiritual sage or a guru or anything like that. Our friendly neighborhood kitty 🐈‍⬛ @Pluto is much more so the expert on spiritual matters and its associated philosophies. But you post very inquisitive questions so please keep it up! Thank you both (@Pluto @SmallKoy) for your contributions! Myself and the community appreciate it! 👍
And to quote Issac Newton, "If I have ever seen further, its because I was standing on the shoulders of giants."
 
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DarkRange55

DarkRange55

I am Skynet
Oct 15, 2023
1,855
Perhaps this is because the very word spirit can refer to a particular zeitgeist or a literal synonym for soul. All these things have value in breaking down the barriers of the separate ego-self, at least for short periods.
Right—when you bring up spirit or soul or essence I think it's important to define the realm in which you're discussing it; to be clear, I mean either the physical, religious, or metaphysical. After that then you can get specific as to what definition you're going after
 
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Tears in Rain

Tears in Rain

..............
Dec 12, 2023
858
Part I

Perhaps ironically, it is the religion of Taoism that says it best. According to legendary Chinese philosopher Lao Tzu in around the 4th century BCE:

The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao;
The name that can be named is not the eternal name.


That's it. The whole story. However, if a further explanation is wanted, we need to start from the beginning.

Why was Religion Invented?
Firstly, religions have existed for as long as people were present with the cognitive capacity to create them. The Dreamtime of Aboriginal Australia dates back as far as 65,000 years according to one source. It included the classic religious elements such as creation myths, rituals, moral frameworks, marriages, death ceremonies and teachings about the afterlife.

Perhaps we can unpack the existence of religion by looking at the problems that it intended to solve. These may include 1) a lack of explanation for existence, 2) a desire for a bigger-picture purpose for human life, 3) a need for a structure of rules to live by and 4) the craving for assurances regarding the afterlife. In turn, each of these addresses a discomfort in the human mind. Respectively, we have 1) Confusion over existing at all, 2) pain over suffering, 3) uncertainty about how to live and 4) fear of death.

Switching back to Eastern philosophy, this confusion/pain/uncertainty/fear can be unified, as all are forms of duḥkha, a Sanskrit word that can be translated as 'suffering', 'unease', 'pain', 'sorrow', 'restlessness' or 'unsatisfactoriness'. According to Buddhism, this is fundamental to the human condition. All attempts at alleviating suffering in the material world (for example relationships or wealth) are from this perspective merely a temporary evasion.

The Sorrow Solution
Thus, religion serves as a means of solving the most fundamental human problem of suffering. This is clearer if we do not get lost in superficial differences in terminology or narrative. For example, Christian words like 'sin' and 'heaven' correspond respectively to 'ignorance' and 'enlightenment' in Buddhist nomenclature.

In each case, venerated historical figures claimed by followers to have visionary perspectives gave rise to these various religions. But not only have religions failed to bring about any grand-scale upliftment of the species, but religion has actually been a central component of many of our barbaric acts of violence.

So now for the big question: why has religion failed? I am going to argue that we can still be open to the real possibility that suffering can be ended in this lifetime, but there are countless traps which can massively delay the process.

The Many Traps
1) Doubt: assuming we all agree with the notion that 'life is suffering' based on our own living experience, the question arises of whether there really is a way out. This Buddhist claim could be a giant con to enslave the masses with false hopes of a better tomorrow. Alas, I'm not giving a direct answer here. If the answer is yes, for as long as we are suffering, this will at best be a mere intellectual belief. If the answer is no, that's another belief. But being open to the possibility is a prerequisite for taking any further steps.

2) Tribalism: just like dolphin schools and bird flocks, humans have tribes. It is a primordial impulse that evolved because surviving alone is impossible, especially if the goal includes procreation, defense and so on. Even in modern times, we see the devastating psychological impact of social isolation on individuals. We desperately need to belong. Unfortunately, this leaves us with all the ingredients of religious tribalism. "Only my God is the true God." And yet, it cannot be said that, for example, the Israelites and Palestinians have successfully eradicated suffering. Not by any stretch.

3) False leadership: just as wolf packs are lead by 'alphas', another primitive human trait is submitting to dominance hierarchies. In extreme examples, the narcissist-enabler dynamics result in Jonestown-style disasters. Most cases are milder, yet the same issue of unqualified leadership and ignorant compliance by the social group remains. There's a further grey area when the religious leader may possess useful knowledge or even some genuine spiritual insight, yet is still being driven by egocentric motivations (adulation, power, wealth). Bad things can happen behind closed doors.

4) Laziness: we want others to think for us. This relates somewhat to the previous point. In a way, being a signed-up member of any firm belief system (religious or irreligious) and then repeating its usual groupthink talking points ad nauseam is a slothful shortcut to avoid engaging with the challenges of this topic.

5) False awakening: being satisfied with a special belief system, an idea about the divine or some purportedly lofty perspectives about society means being 'awake' to some people, but this is still just a different set of ideas in the mind. Nothing has been truly transcended and nobody should settle for this. Religions also offer congregations, friendships and other goodies, but rarely will they encourage followers to strive for true liberation.

6) Confusion: passing all the aforementioned hurdles means we are now functioning independently on a truly authentic search for the holy grail: a radical revelation of a timeless truth. But now what? Hundreds of purportedly enlightened voices are speaking, offering conflicting advice and making unverifiable claims. This leads us back to our old friend, the Tao ("the way").

...To be continued due to post already way too long.
You say why religions fail. What do you mean by fail, failed to do what? Maybe for a lot of people religion hasn't failed, maybe it has given them the drug they needed, an imaginary distraction from lifes meaninglessness? Something that gets them through life's futility? A crutch to shepherd them from falling into the abyss?

Perhaps this is because the very word spirit can refer to a particular zeitgeist or a literal synonym for soul. All these things have value in breaking down the barriers of the separate ego-self, at least for short periods.
You mention ego-self and identity quite a bit, why haven't you broken down your barriers that separate your ego-self from consciousness?
 
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Pluto

Pluto

Meowing to go out
Dec 27, 2020
4,163
You mention ego-self and identity quite a bit, why haven't you broken down your barriers that separate your ego-self from consciousness?
I ask myself that question every day. It seems a combination of screw-ups. 1) C-PTSD, while merely a physical ailment, feels like a big factor in leaving me semi-bedridden. 2) A total lack of any like-minded community where I live. 3) Lack of basic human needs like friends and family, 4) Excessive intellectualisation of spirituality on my part, which is probably a defense mechanism related to aforementioned point 1.

I still have to decide if I am wasting my time trying to get anywhere in this lifetime.
 
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Tears in Rain

Tears in Rain

..............
Dec 12, 2023
858
I ask myself that question every day. It seems a combination of screw-ups. 1) C-PTSD, while merely a physical ailment, feels like a big factor in leaving me semi-bedridden. 2) A total lack of any like-minded community where I live. 3) Lack of basic human needs like friends and family, 4) Excessive intellectualisation of spirituality on my part, which is probably a defense mechanism related to aforementioned point 1.
The spiritual community is full of people who intellectualise spirituality. Modern day spirituality isn't really about leading people to awakening, it's about selling bullshit about a possible beautiful 'dream life'. Which is fine, because nobody really wants what awakening really is anyway- ego doesn't want its own death. You are not alone in this excessive intellectualisation.

I still have to decide if I am wasting my time trying to get anywhere in this lifetime.
That will depend on what 'getting anywhere' means to you. You have to be clear what you really want, else you're just flailing around like everyone else. But it's not easy to find a clear path, especially if your health situation is tough, like you mentioned above.
 
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leavingthesoultrap

leavingthesoultrap

(ᴗ_ ᴗ。)
Nov 25, 2023
1,212
The indigenous pagan beliefs (including pagan Europe) weren't invented. The religion was one with the culture. It organically grew with the people. These faiths were centered mostly around ancestral cult. It was literally part of your family.
People tend to view Christianity as the ultimate religion, because of its historic importance... While in reality, Christianity is one of the most weirdest, inorganic and obscure cults.
There reason why Christianity gained importance is because the catholic church filled the vacuum after the fall of Roman empire.
 
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Andrews

Andrews

Member
Jan 1, 2024
55
Beautiful post. As you've said, religions weren't meant to awaken entire civilizations, but rather a small amount of people (direct disciples of masters and people with high spiritual longings).
This is because most people are full of themselves and don't even realize it. There is no space for anything else; so it's a matter of first taking out, then putting sth else in (the tea parable is similar to Luke 5:37).

Even so, religion serves its role to society. People receive a knowledge, somewhat transcendental, useful up to a point (even if they cannot understand the knowledge hidden in the scriptures, because it is symbolic).
That inner knowledge is incompatible with the current state in which humanity is, so it cannot be given publicly as it would harm instead of awaken (Corinthians 3, at the beginning).
 
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sserafim

sserafim

brighter than the sun, that’s just me
Sep 13, 2023
9,015
Beautiful post. As you've said, religions weren't meant to awaken entire civilizations, but rather a small amount of people (direct disciples of masters and people with high spiritual longings).
This is because most people are full of themselves and don't even realize it. There is no space for anything else; so it's a matter of first taking out, then putting sth else in. (similar to Luke 5:37).

Even so, religion serves its role to society. People receive a knowledge, somewhat transcendental, useful up to a point (even if they cannot understand the knowledge hidden in the scriptures, because it is symbolic) (similar to Corinthians 3, at the beginning).
That inner knowledge is incompatible with the current state in which humanity is, so it cannot be given publicly as it would harm instead of awaken.
Is the knowledge true or accurate though?
 
Andrews

Andrews

Member
Jan 1, 2024
55
Is the knowledge true or accurate though?
I think it's as true and accurate as the people who gave it were. Knowledge depends on the level of consciousness.

One can verify knowledge as he lives by it.
 
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