Discussion Why you are NOT an antinatalist?

[Socrates Respecter]

What are some of the reasons why you would NOT consider yourself an antinatalist? And how do you evaluate your personal misery (if you do feel miserable) in light of this?

Please keep it civil folks.

 

[Blurry_Buildings]

idk if I am or not its kind of a loaded ideology

I think people are usually not anti-natalist because they don't assume the default state of life is suffering. Statistically speaking the vast majority of people who will ever live will enjoy or find enough fulfilment in their lives to want to keep living.

Anti-natalists were involuntarily brought into existance and are upset about it, but people who are not born don't voluntarily choose to not be born either; it is a decision made for them. This means that whether someone has a child or not they will be unilaterally forcing a potential human to exist or not exist. An anti-natalist who doesn't have children may very likely be unilaterally preventing someone from existing who would have very much preferred to exist, just like a person who has a child that would have prefered not to exist.

 

[ladylazarus4]

Anti-natalists were involuntarily brought into existance and are upset about it, but people who are not born don't voluntarily choose to not be born either; it is a decision made for them.

I get what you mean but I think my personal view is that there is no "fate," so you're not really depriving someone of anything by not giving birth, if that makes sense.
But anyways, I wouldn't self-describe as an antinatalist because I don't think pointless, incessant suffering is inherent in life. I don't think it's a "good" thing to give birth, either, but it's also not "bad." I just don't think we should force people one way or another. If someone doesn't want to give birth, obviously that's their prerogative.

 

[derpyderpins]

What are some of the reasons why you would NOT consider yourself an antinatalist? And how do you evaluate your personal misery (if you do feel miserable) in light of this?

Please keep it civil folks.

More than half of people consider themselves to be at least somewhat happy. If you're on here, you're an outlier. While I think people should be choosy with when they decide to have kids saying no one should ever have kids is imposing false beliefs on others.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Lizard brain plus being on this site while being inherently contrarian caused me to see the appeal of a breeding kink: "Wow this basic biological function is 100 times more titillating now that I know that it's inherently evil to create life."

 

[EvisceratedJester]

While I'm very sympathetic to antinatalism I just find the philosophy to be a bit too extreme for me. While I'm not a huge fan of procreation I don't think that trying to get people to stop giving birth altogether is going to do much. I'd much rather we focus more on trying to make this world a better place for the next generations and that we start working more towards prioritizing the safety and well-being of children over their parents and parent rights. Deciding to procreate is always selfish and it can't be stopped, so we may as well just try to find ways to make this world more accessible and safer for children to live in while also heightening our standards on parenting (the standards for being a good parent are so low that it's just sad).

 

[BooGirl]

What are some of the reasons why you would NOT consider yourself an antinatalist? And how do you evaluate your personal misery (if you do feel miserable) in light of this?

Please keep it civil folks.

I'm a materialist, so I try to only hold political beliefs that I believe are actually possible to bring into reality. Antinatalism as a policy is not something that will ever happen. Regardless of my own feelings, the vast majority of humanity would vehemently disagree with the idea that people should stop having children. Given that, it makes much more sense to orient my beliefs towards things that can improve life while still being possible to come into being.

 

[Aergia]

I'm on the fence about antinatalism. On the one hand, I think there's a fairly good case for it, mostly in David Benatar's asymmetry argument, and that most anti-antinatalist arguments are bad in that they tend to strawman the antinatalist position (which is why I've often found myself defending it).

On the other… Benatar himself has said that antinatalism runs counter to too many biological drives to ever be widely adopted. So maybe on an individual level your hypothetical child is better off not existing. But most people still going to have kids, i.e. humanity still has a future. And having kids is one of the ways you get to impact that future (by instilling values, etc). I don't think it's a sound idea to have a kid for one's own sake, and I certainly don't think it's sound to have a kid for their sake. But I'm partial to the idea of having kids for some cause greater than oneself* (provided there's a reasonably good chance of said kids having also good individual lives). As an ex-Muslim, it's also discomforting to observe that harmful ideologies can often be more fertile.

I also admit I'm sympathetic to Elon Musk's reason for being a pronatalist (or one of them, anyway). In essence, he's said that he's in favour of there being more biological (and artificial) consciousnesses because he thinks the more consciousnesses we create, the closer we'll be to discovering existential truths.

*though I doubt I'll have any myself. I think my genes are too problematic

 

[Meteora]

I can t tell you, why some people are not. I am an antinatalist.

 

[Alexei_Kirillov]

While I'm very sympathetic to antinatalism I just find the philosophy to be a bit too extreme for me. While I'm not a huge fan of procreation I don't think that trying to get people to stop giving birth altogether is going to do much. I'd much rather we focus more on trying to make this world a better place for the next generations and that we start working more towards prioritizing the safety and well-being of children over their parents and parent rights. Deciding to procreate is always selfish and it can't be stopped, so we may as well just try to find ways to make this world more accessible and safer for children to live in while also heightening our standards on parenting (the standards for being a good parent are so low that it's just sad).

To be fair, I think a lot of antinatalists would agree that it's impractical as an applied philosophy. I'm of the opinion that if that's to be the case, if people are going to keep on creating new lives that will go on to suffer, then the least society could do is offer those people a safe, painless way out, ie. MAID.

 

[Aergia]

Bump

 

[Giraffe]

Well, tbh, I've never had a kid before so I'd just want to see what it would be like. I'm not forcing them against their will to stay alive, and they may very well end up on this site 18 years after their birthday. So it just seems a bit cynical to claim all human reproduction should cease. Heh, once bitten twice shy

 

[Forever Sleep]

Personally, I do hold antinatilist views. I think it would be especially cruel and bad for me to have children.

I have a few friends with children though. I don't think they're bad or massively selfish people. I suppose they did want to experience parenthood- which is a selfish need I suppose. But, I feel like in each case, they did actually thoroughly think through the welfare and prospects of the child. I suppose they all liked life enough to believe their children would too. Especially given the love, attention and opportunities they intended to give them and, have done. I suppose in essence- they wanted children in order to bring joy to them. I think their intentions were loving.

As far as I'm aware- fortunately it seems so far so good too. I think they're children are doing ok for now so- fingers crossed I guess. I think that's my feeling when I see any children- I hope your life works out ok. I hope you don't go through what a lot of the people here have. I hope you don't end up like me.