Venting “You are never too old for (insert activity) ...”

[TAW122]

This is often a cliché and common platitude, axiom espoused by many normies and common people in day to day conversations and life. Another similar statement while also exuding the same sentiments "Age is just a number." is also equally irritating. While there is some truth to it, the over-application and generalization of such statements only serve to overlook the nuances and intricacies of a particular individuals' circumstances. In other words, it over simplifies the person's predicament and offers a blanket generalization as a solution to the person's problems. In the case of some truth for it, sure there are some outliers who can do amazing things even if they started very late in their lives, like learning a particularly new skill. There are indeed people who can and do successfully do so, albeit just not to the expert level or so, hence they are known as 'outliers' and do NOT universally apply to everyone or every situation. There are ALWAYS going to be outliers of course, but that cannot be representative of the majority of situations and cases. There will always be people who just simply cannot catch up or fall short of expectations (whether others or even their own). This is especially true when it comes to mastery of a particular activity, but not necessarily limited to sports.

In reality, most people who are older are just at a disadvantage towards certain other activities, whether it be a sport, academic pursuit, career change (into a new field or industry), learning languages, learning an instrument or stuff. This is due to the fact that through age, one goes through many physiological and psychological changes, which of course, will affect their performance! For example, if learning a new language (yes there may be exceptions), it is known that it will be harder to do so when one is older. Of course, this is even more prevalent when one is looking to not just be fluent, but to be at working proficiency at said language. Another example is also when it comes to learning instruments, while it may be easier when someone starts young to do so, and can certainly excel, but to be exceptional or competitive when starting at a much older age (not young adult, but mid life or even later into one's senior years), it will be much harder, even if they had some potential. They certainly would not likely be in competitions, holding prestigious concerts, or even being at the top or master of their craft.

This platitude, when discussing about CTB and death
With regards to this platitude in the context of pro-lifers trying to dissuade one from CTB'ing is just disingenuous and rather dismissive towards the target person. It instills false hope and unrealistic expectations. Many pro-lifers and anti-choicers often like to use that to dismiss being too old to excel in something as a legitimate reason (not that any reason is invalid, as ALL reasons (or lack thereof one) are valid for CTB!). Suppose someone who lived most of their lives and had a lofty dream of learning some skill (because they want to, due to interest or personal reason), but because they couldn't excel or do so to the degree that they once envisioned, or simply just never tried, they decide to CTB over it. Instead, pro-lifers and anti-choicers would respond with "you are never too old for x activity" or even "age is just a number", which is rather dismissive in nature.

In conclusion, while the platitude can perhaps be true in general cases such as learning casually or doing so as a hobby and not expecting to excel or master it, it is certainly NOT universal and not true for all circumstances. Age is simply NOT a number and one can indeed be too old to pursue a certain activity or hobby, especially when it comes to mastering or being at the top of the particular activity. Finally, through age health and physiological (as well as psychological) changes occur with the individual which will impact their ability to perform well at said activity. It is ultimately dismissive, insulting, and trivializing towards the target audience since it fails to consider the realities of any individual's particular circumstances.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I think the last paragraph is the most relevant. Say someone wants to take up swimming or, learning an instrument in their 50's. So- initially- why are they doing it? Presumably, they get some pleasure out of the action of swimming or, playing an instrument. So- maybe that is enough for them to do it.

If their minset is competitive though. 'I want to become the best at this' then- no, it might not be so pleasurable. They're unlikely to be able to compete at the level as a person who began swimming or playing the piano when they were 7. Not only all the practice that person has built up but, physically they may not be as fit or able as a younger person or, a person that has exercised or played all their life.

Again though- take swimming. If they truly want to aim to turn professional, won't they be swimming in a veteran category to compete? Are they actually going to make an 80 year old race a 20 year old? Maybe the actual veterans will have swimmed all their lives so- again- have the edge but I do actually believe people can sometimes achieve incredible things if they are that determined.

That's the other thing though- are they that determined? Will they start off strong, practicing everyday then, slack off a few weeks and be frustrated they're not then reaching their targets?

I think we have to be realistic with ourselves too- regardless of age. How much do I want this? How much will I need to sacrifice to achieve it? Can I even? Someone working full time isn't going to have the same time to train as a professional athlete.

It's like the phrase: 'You have to cut your coat according to your cloth.' So- your plans and (aspirations even) kind of do need to be in line with reality! Someone can still be happy competing in an over 60's race but it would be (quite frankly, dumb) for them to think they'll be on the next Olympic team. That's not to belittle the frustration we feel when we don't reach our goals but I suppose they do at least need to be somewhat realistic.

It's going to depend on why they're doing it mostly though. What they're hoping to achieve as to whether it's worth them trying.

The more complicated one I think is something like finding love. That also can happen at any age. It does. Friends of my parents met in their 70's. That's a more tricky one in a way though because, there's only so much a person can do. Be sociable and open to meeting people. Remain attractive in various ways. But, that's also down to luck too. So- that's much more random but, that's also one people will use to try and get you to stay- 'Your Mr/Mrs Right could be just around the corner... yada, yada, yada.' Again though, that depends on how much someone is willing to put themselves through. The effort, the possible rejection. Only we ourselves can really judge whether anything we do seems worth the effort though. Sometimes, it just doesn't seem worth it!

 

[SVEN]

Suicide.

 

[Alexei_Kirillov]

The more complicated one I think is something like finding love. That also can happen at any age. It does. Friends of my parents met in their 70's. That's a more tricky one in a way though because, there's only so much a person can do. Be sociable and open to meeting people. Remain attractive in various ways. But, that's also down to luck too. So- that's much more random but, that's also one people will use to try and get you to stay- 'Your Mr/Mrs Right could be just around the corner... yada, yada, yada.' Again though, that depends on how much someone is willing to put themselves through. The effort, the possible rejection. Only we ourselves can really judge whether anything we do seems worth the effort though. Sometimes, it just doesn't seem worth it!

This one really grinds my gears, getting relationship experience early on in life DOES matter, and not all of it can be made up for later -- some experiences may just be out of reach at a certain point. For example, say you're in your forties and have zero romantic experience: even if luck shines down upon you and you do find your Mr/Mrs Right, you will never have the experience of "puppy love," because by that point both partners will have already accumulated a substantial amount of emotional baggage, scarring, bad habits, etc. Biologically, too, your experience will be irreconcilably different from a 20-year-old's.

That's not to say that it wouldn't still be an edifying, worthwhile pursuit--same as the 60-year-old who takes up swimming--nor even that it wouldn't have certain advantages over the alternative experience: it's just that it will fundamentally not be the same as when you were younger. I don't understand why people can't maintain these two ideas in their head at the same time.

 

[TAW122]

Thanks for clarifying and elaborating on my points @Forever Sleep and yeah, ultimately, I guess it would depend on a person's goal and intentions. If they want to become the best, well yeah, realistically and feasibly speaking, it is just NOT (likely) going to happen. What irks me the most is when platitude pushers and motivational people seem to just blindly ignore that aspect, which is grounded in reality and objectivity (as one ages, their bodies and faculties change, it may/not be as good as it once was, which is evident in athleticism and even activities that require certain dexterity and mental acumen (more complex but the idea and point is still the same) to be able to do extremely well and be very competitive). Sure, they also cling onto outliers and my frustration is how they use outliers to (incorrectly and inaccurately) represent ALL cases, when most rational people know that simply just isn't the case! As for romance and love, yes that may seem to be possible, but also still improbable and it's true that luck is a big factor too because people who reach that age while they could still find love and romance, the context is entirely different. Even if it was possible (very rare!), like you said, it isn't always worth the effort and only the individual can decide that. Sometimes I feel like I live in a different world and have a different mind than most 'normies', but that could be another topic for another time though.

@Alexei_Kirillov While I'm not an authority or expert on relationships (as I never been in one), I did read many opinions and thoughts as well as known people IRL who have been in relationships before, and I will say that I do believe there is some truth and aspect of it. There are some things that are limited in time and opportunity (because otherwise everyone can just have everything and achieve everything they want with enough resources and effort - but objectively most of us (rational ones at least) know that that simply isn't true.) and once we reached beyond that point, that opportunity may perhaps be lost forever, or may never be as good as it once was. That isn't to say that people can't find relationships or romance, but it just wouldn't be as good or as fulfilling. Additionally and as someone who looks at situations more objectively and concrete, I focus a bit more on the physical and objective aspects of situations, like physicality and such, so biologically one's bodies and faculties would have changed in various ways that no matter how they try to replicate things they would never achieve the same result as that of those who got theirs when they were younger. The circumstances and predicaments are different too. Anyways, I won't delve too much more in detail for going off too far off tangent and also because again, I don't have as much knowledge and experience in this field to speak more in depth on it.

All in all, another thing I enjoy about the SaSu community (in addition and besides the candid and open dialogue about CTB, method efficacy, and such) is the fact that even for other kinds of topics outside of CTB, assisted-death, and similar ones, our community seems to be more open, objective, and rational when it comes to other topics rather than just by spewing off platitudes, generalizations, or even being pedantic and contrary (disagreeing or just putting up a counter-point just to prove one wrong without engaging in actual meaningful dialogue). That is an additional reason I value this community.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

I've heard this platitude too many times but never got told how to solve it. The older we are the harder it is to learn new things and to achieve new heights in our lives especially if we failed in "old" age before. There r exceptions but it's rarely happening.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Thanks for clarifying and elaborating on my points @Forever Sleep and yeah, ultimately, I guess it would depend on a person's goal and intentions. If they want to become the best, well yeah, realistically and feasibly speaking, it is just NOT (likely) going to happen. What irks me the most is when platitude pushers and motivational people seem to just blindly ignore that aspect, which is grounded in reality and objectivity (as one ages, their bodies and faculties change, it may/not be as good as it once was, which is evident in athleticism and even activities that require certain dexterity and mental acumen (more complex but the idea and point is still the same) to be able to do extremely well and be very competitive). Sure, they also cling onto outliers and my frustration is how they use outliers to (incorrectly and inaccurately) represent ALL cases, when most rational people know that simply just isn't the case! As for romance and love, yes that may seem to be possible, but also still improbable and it's true that luck is a big factor too because people who reach that age while they could still find love and romance, the context is entirely different. Even if it was possible (very rare!), like you said, it isn't always worth the effort and only the individual can decide that. Sometimes I feel like I live in a different world and have a different mind than most 'normies', but that could be another topic for another time though.

@Alexei_Kirillov While I'm not an authority or expert on relationships (as I never been in one), I did read many opinions and thoughts as well as known people IRL who have been in relationships before, and I will say that I do believe there is some truth and aspect of it. There are some things that are limited in time and opportunity (because otherwise everyone can just have everything and achieve everything they want with enough resources and effort - but objectively most of us (rational ones at least) know that that simply isn't true.) and once we reached beyond that point, that opportunity may perhaps be lost forever, or may never be as good as it once was. That isn't to say that people can't find relationships or romance, but it just wouldn't be as good or as fulfilling. Additionally and as someone who looks at situations more objectively and concrete, I focus a bit more on the physical and objective aspects of situations, like physicality and such, so biologically one's bodies and faculties would have changed in various ways that no matter how they try to replicate things they would never achieve the same result as that of those who got theirs when they were younger. The circumstances and predicaments are different too. Anyways, I won't delve too much more in detail for going off too far off tangent and also because again, I don't have as much knowledge and experience in this field to speak more in depth on it.

All in all, another thing I enjoy about the SaSu community (in addition and besides the candid and open dialogue about CTB, method efficacy, and such) is the fact that even for other kinds of topics outside of CTB, assisted-death, and similar ones, our community seems to be more open, objective, and rational when it comes to other topics rather than just by spewing off platitudes, generalizations, or even being pedantic and contrary (disagreeing or just putting up a counter-point just to prove one wrong without engaging in actual meaningful dialogue). That is an additional reason I value this community.

Another one that I've thought of and that I've heard myself is: 'Sorry to hear your career in the Arts is failing but, you can always do it as a hobby.' The worst is, I've probably even said it to myself and friends as we tried to reassure ourselves that, maybe we'll be ok with this set up. (No one I know truly is...)

Firstly, practically speaking- they are right of course. A creative job is very difficult to financially sustain yourself on in this day and age. To a certain extent it could be seen as a 'privileged' job. To an extent, you're being paid to do your hobby!

That's somewhat bullshit though for a start. People still pay to go to university (quite often) to get a career in the Arts. They still work hard- incredibly hard sometimes (70+ hour working weeks.) They still also have to put up with the usual crap you get in any job: budgetting, tight deadlines, awkward clients, accounting, admin etc.

But, more than that. People who do these kinds of jobs have often given their lives to them. I've known people sacrifice relationships, even putting off trying to actually seek a partner, moving away from family and friends, couchsurfing in order to pursue their dreams. A tutor once told me- your work is like your children. Would it really be all that sensitive to say to a divorcee- hey- sorry to hear about the divorce but, you'll still see your children every other weekend! Like that should be enough for them.

That's the crux of it I think though. You should be happy with the life and the opportunities you've got. Plus, the pie in the sky ridiculous things they insist you'll still be able to achieve. What really gives anyone the right to turn to another and say: 'You should be happy'? They ought instead to be asking 'Why do you suppose you're not happy and, is there any way of improving the situation?' Sometimes of course, there isn't and, we end up here.

 

[Alexei_Kirillov]

All in all, another thing I enjoy about the SaSu community (in addition and besides the candid and open dialogue about CTB, method efficacy, and such) is the fact that even for other kinds of topics outside of CTB, assisted-death, and similar ones, our community seems to be more open, objective, and rational when it comes to other topics rather than just by spewing off platitudes, generalizations, or even being pedantic and contrary (disagreeing or just putting up a counter-point just to prove one wrong without engaging in actual meaningful dialogue). That is an additional reason I value this community.

Seconding this! The belief that life is inherently valuable/death is bad is so deeply ingrained in society that once you start questioning it, everything else becomes fair game for questioning as well.

 

[Pluto]