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befree

befree

Time to do more enjoyable things _____Goodbye_____
Mar 22, 2022
2,587
Translation from German
"Selbstbestimmt Sterben - Handreichung für einen rationalen Suizid (German Edition)
Jessica Düber


Amitriptyline guide


"Tricyclic antidepressants

General info

Tricyclic antidepressants are psychotropic drugs with a general mood-lifting effect that are used to treat depressive disorders. They act by inhibiting - in a less selective manner - the reuptake of the neurotransmitters serotonin, norepinephrine and dopamine into the nerve cells of the brain, so that more of the aforementioned neurotransmitters are available. Death from overdose occurs in the form of cardiac arrest following cardiac arrhythmias, possibly along with respiratory arrest. The duration between ingestion of the drug and the onset of death is between 12 and 48 hours. This relatively long time to onset of death is related to the fact that tricyclic antidepressants slow down the metabolism, and thus it may take longer for the body to completely absorb the active ingredient (the active ingredient inhibits its own absorption, so to speak). The use of tricyclic antidepressants for self-determined dying is listed in the WOZZ - Handbook (cf. Admiraal, Chabot, Ogden, Loenen, van, Pennings: Ways to a humane, self-determined dying, Amsterdam, 2008, pp.90 - 92) and also in Chabot (cf. Chabot: Dignified Dying. A Guide. 2014, pp.95 - 96). However, in the absence of sufficiently documented cases of successful implementation, Chabot lists the use of the substance as not meeting the criteria for peaceful, self-determined dying. He points out, however, that according to toxicologist Pennings, use of the substance in appropriate doses is very likely to cause death in the manner described above ("According to the toxicologist Pennings, in appropriate doses these drugs are very likely to cause death by cardiac arrest, and possibly by depression of respiration (apnea) as well" (cited in Chabot: Dignified Dying. A Guide. 2014, p.95)). Docker also formulates that there are methods for which more comprehensive documentation is available, but that the use of tricyclic antidepressants may be considered when the choice of other methods is limited, for whatever reason ("Although there are numerous cases of suicide with tricyclics alone, there are so many variables that they are not a first choice as a stand-alone self-deliverance drug. (...)

Amitriptyline works differently in different people. It is easy to classify a drug as reliable or unreliable when the evidence is unclear or inconclusive. Amitriptyline was mentioned only in passing in previous editions of Five Last Acts because there are now methods such as helium for which there is clearer and more conclusive evidence. But for one reason or another, some people will not always have so many options. If you have few other options and can swallow 5 or 6 g (not milligrams!) of amitriptyline tablets, then at least you have that option. That's a lot of tablets, even if they are crushed. Your body weight is a factor in determining the lethal dose of this drug, so if you are very heavy, you will need more (up to 7 g)" (quoted from Docker: Five Last Acts - The Exit Path. 2015. pp.363 - 365). Because the process of dying may be prolonged, it is particularly important when using tricyclic antidepressants to ensure that no life-saving measures are initiated for a period of at least 48 hours.

Tolerance

Tricyclic antidepressants do not induce tolerance even when taken continuously (e.g., when used regularly to treat a depressive disorder). Therefore, prior withdrawal is not necessary. Since tricyclic antidepressants require combined use with benzodiazepines, withdrawal from benzodiazepines may be necessary.

Docker writes of a necessary withdrawal from tricyclic antidepressants; a recommendation that should not confuse one, as it is a different context. The described, necessary withdrawal is about the use of depressant tricyclic antidepressants (which have sleep inducing effects and thus can be used as a sleep aid) for a suicide with a plastic bag - a method that the authors of the WOZZ - book advise against (cf. Admiraal, Chabot, Ogden, Loenen, van, Pennings: Wege zu einem humanen, selbstbestimmten Sterben, Amsterdam, 2008, p.127 - 130). This will be discussed in more detail later in this paper. Under no circumstances are tricyclic antidepressants suitable as sleeping pills if (prolonged) dying is to be brought about with this medication as well, and thus a prolonged, deep sleep has utmost priority. Docker's formulation for weaning off tricyclic antidepressants here is as follows: "If you have sedative tricyclics (those from the first list), especially if you have amitriptyline, they may be considered a suitable sedative if you take precautions. Firstly, if you have been taking them for a therapeutic reason, you need to stay off them for a few weeks to ensure you have not become acclimatised to them. Then, a few weeks before using them for self-deliverance, you need to do the Estimating Dosages experiment to see if a small dose knocks you out for several hours of daytime sleep. With this amount as a base increase planned self-deliverance dose by a factor of ten if you are using them with the plastic bag. Individual reaction to tricyclics varies" (quoted from Docker: Five Last Acts - The Exit Path. 2015. p.363).

Necessity of taking a benzodiazepine

Although some active ingredients of the tricyclic antidepressants (especially the active ingredients of the amitriptyline type, which have a more psychomotor depressant effect) have a sleep-inducing effect and are sometimes used as a sleep aid, they do not lead to a sufficiently deep and long sleep for self-determined dying. It is therefore necessary to combine the use of the tricyclic antidepressant with a benzodiazepine. This is particularly important because, as described above, the dying phase can last up to 48 hours. When tricyclic antidepressants are used for self-determined dying, as with the use of chloroquine, unpleasant side effects may occur, the conscious witnessing of which may be prevented or even suppressed by the prior use of a benzodiazepine. The unpleasant side effects of an overdose of tricyclic antidepressants include a greatly increased temperature (it is also important for people possibly accompanying the dying process to know this and to react calmly to it). Epileptic seizures can also be triggered by an overdose; however, these are suppressed by the benzodiazepine taken in combination.

Taking a fast-acting benzodiazepine is not absolutely necessary, since the onset of action or the onset of the unpleasant side effects of tricyclic antidepressants is not as rapid as is the case, for example, with chloroquine. However, there is no reason why a fast-acting benzodiazepine should not be taken in addition to the long-acting benzodiazepine if this is desired.

Necessity of taking an antiemetic

Taking an antiemetic is definitely necessary

Lethal dose

The lethal dose of all mentioned tricyclic antidepressants is given with a quantity between 6g and 7,5g.

In the book of the WOZZ - Foundation a dose of 6g is mentioned (cf. Admiraal, Chabot, Ogden, Loenen, van, Pennings: Wege zu einem humanen, selbstbestimmten Sterben, Amsterdam, 2008, p.91). Chabot gives a lethal dose of 7.5g (cf. Chabot: Dignified Dying.
A Guide. 2014, p.96). The dose of the long-acting benzodiazepine taken in combination should be at least 500mg (cf. Admiraal, Chabot, Ogden, Loenen, van, Pennings: Ways to a humane, self-determined dying, Amsterdam, 2008, p.92 and Chabot: Dignified Dying.
A Guide. 2014, p.96).

Intake

Taking the antiemetic (e.g. from 24 hours before planned taking of the lethal medication, one tablet of metoclopramide à 10mg every 6 hours / the last tablet should be taken about 1 hour before taking the lethal medication).

Do not eat anything from about 12 hours before the scheduled intake of the lethal drugs (drinking is possible).

Pulverize the drugs (you can do this the day before and store the crushed substances airtight and dark in a screw-top jar; tricyclic antidepressants are not as bitter as chloroquine and can therefore - instead of just being crushed - simply be pulverized in an electric coffee grinder).

About 30min before taking the lethal drugs, you can eat a snack (e.g., a slice of toast)
The lethal drugs in crushed form (e.g. 7.5g tricyclic antidepressants) can be stirred into a small bowl of pudding, soy yogurt, or fruit puree along with the crushed long-acting benzodiazepine (e.g. 500mg diazepam).

The fast-acting benzodiazepine (e.g., 100mg midazolam or lorazepam) is stirred into a separate small bowl of pudding, yogurt, or fruit puree - the use of a fast-acting benzodiazepine is optional here, as described above.

1 to 2 glasses of liquid are provided for swallow down.
It´s best to take the substances in an upright sitting position in bed, with supportive pillows placed on the left and right sides.

The bowls are spooned up quickly one after the other, with the bowl containing the fast-acting benzodiazepine (optional) spooned up last.

Then rinse with one, at most two glasses of liquid and, if necessary, consume a small amount of alcohol (alcohol is not absolutely necessary)."

This translation of the book is not meant to encourage you to commit suicide and to use this method. The reader acts on his own responsibility.
 
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Vizzy

Vizzy

DEAD
May 6, 2023
1,869
Intake

Taking the antiemetic (e.g. from 24 hours before planned taking of the lethal medication, one tablet of metoclopramide à 10mg every 6 hours / the last tablet should be taken about 1 hour before taking the lethal medication).

Do not eat anything from about 12 hours before the scheduled intake of the lethal drugs (drinking is possible).

Pulverize the drugs (you can do this the day before and store the crushed substances airtight and dark in a screw-top jar; tricyclic antidepressants are not as bitter as chloroquine and can therefore - instead of just being crushed - simply be pulverized in an electric coffee grinder).

About 30min before taking the lethal drugs, you can eat a snack (e.g., a slice of toast)
The lethal drugs in crushed form (e.g. 7.5g tricyclic antidepressants) can be stirred into a small bowl of pudding, soy yogurt, or fruit puree along with the crushed long-acting benzodiazepine (e.g. 500mg diazepam).

The fast-acting benzodiazepine (e.g., 100mg midazolam or lorazepam) is stirred into a separate small bowl of pudding, yogurt, or fruit puree - the use of a fast-acting benzodiazepine is optional here, as described above.

1 to 2 glasses of liquid are provided for swallow down.
It´s best to take the substances in an upright sitting position in bed, with supportive pillows placed on the left and right sides.

The bowls are spooned up quickly one after the other, with the bowl containing the fast-acting benzodiazepine (optional) spooned up last.

Then rinse with one, at most two glasses of liquid and, if necessary, consume a small amount of alcohol (alcohol is not absolutely necessary).
How you come up with this?

What the research behind this?

I don't think this is from ppeh book
 
befree

befree

Time to do more enjoyable things _____Goodbye_____
Mar 22, 2022
2,587

It´s a translation of the book:
"Selbstbestimmt Sterben - Handreichung für einen rationalen Suizid" (German Edition) Jessica Düber
 
Vizzy

Vizzy

DEAD
May 6, 2023
1,869

It´s a translation of the book:
"Selbstbestimmt Sterben - Handreichung für einen rationalen Suizid" (German Edition) Jessica Düber
Amitriptyline is a drug, you can't give some random dosage and think it will work for everyone because everyone are different that's why drugs are considered unreliable for ctb

Big no for this method because no one can know their exact dosage!
 
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befree

befree

Time to do more enjoyable things _____Goodbye_____
Mar 22, 2022
2,587
If you would read the book and also about the successful suicides with this method, then you would not write something like this. Other members are interested in this method and the guide. You don´t have to use it.
 
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Vizzy

Vizzy

DEAD
May 6, 2023
1,869
If you would read the book and also about the successful suicides with this method, then you would not write something like this. Other members are interested in this method and the guide. You don´t have to use it.
As I said you can't take a random dosage when it comes to drug overdose, everyone are different

If people follow this they will end up as a vegetable

No book can give exact drug dosage to everyone and it is unreliable, other members interested doesn't mean you can give a random dosage to people, I ask no one to use it

People don't follow this without research!
 
befree

befree

Time to do more enjoyable things _____Goodbye_____
Mar 22, 2022
2,587
As you can see, I´m not the author of this book and neither am I the author of the other books mentioned ! These books were written by the authors because this method is proven. Each member should decide for himself if he wants to use this method or not. I´m only the translator, nothing more !
I don´t understand what your problem is.
 
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Valky

Valky

Petulant Child
Apr 4, 2023
1,322
As I said you can't take a random dosage when it comes to drug overdose, everyone are different

If people follow this they will end up as a vegetable

No book can give exact drug dosage to everyone and it is unreliable, other members interested doesn't mean you can give a random dosage to people, I ask no one to use it

People don't follow this without research!
I think you don't quite understand how this works..

Anyways, thank you for this op! I was wondering about that recently :)
 
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G

gap

I'm Italian, but there is google translate🙂
Apr 28, 2023
43
Thank you, in the PPEH they recommend 8 grams, 10 if you weigh 100 kg...I've always thought that if I had to use it, do with 12 g of amitripline. I think it's my preferred method.
 
Kera

Kera

Experienced
Jul 16, 2023
260
Thank you, in the PPEH they recommend 8 grams, 10 if you weigh 100 kg...I've always thought that if I had to use it, do with 12 g of amitripline. I think it's my preferred method.
However, one should know that dying with amitriptyline can take 24 to 48 hours. For self-determined dying to succeed, no life-saving measures should be initiated in the first 48 hours.
Thank you, in the PPEH they recommend 8 grams, 10 if you weigh 100 kg...I've always thought that if I had to use it, do with 12 g of amitripline. I think it's my preferred method.
It was my option too. However, 2 days are too long for me, especially since I am not alone.
I had to use it, do with 12 g of amitripline.
Do you have tablets or dragees?
 
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nomennescio

nomennescio

Student
Jun 25, 2023
110
However, one should know that dying with amitriptyline can take 24 to 48 hours. For self-determined dying to succeed, no life-saving measures should be initiated in the first 48 hours.

It was my option too. However, 2 days are too long for me, especially since I am not alone.

Do you have tablets or dragees?
Damn does it really take that long?

I have a little over 7g ami alongside 800mg oxazepam and 300 temazepam. Domperidon as well. Im around 40 kgs. Is this too little and will i fail pretty certainly?(I know its not exactly what the guide says). I have sn but am afraid of pain and i throw up quickly. Carbon monoxide requires much preparation. Was hoping the ami would be a bit more of a peaceful solution, but 48 hours is long… pfff i just want to sleep..
 
Kera

Kera

Experienced
Jul 16, 2023
260
Damn does it really take that long?

I have a little over 7g ami alongside 800mg oxazepam and 300 temazepam. Domperidon as well. Im around 40 kgs. Is this too little and will i fail pretty certainly?(I know its not exactly what the guide says). I have sn but am afraid of pain and i throw up quickly. Carbon monoxide requires much preparation. Was hoping the ami would be a bit more of a peaceful solution, but 48 hours is long… pfff i just want to sleep..
Hmm, at 40kg it might work!?
It can take up to 2 days or just 12 hours. Provided that you do not vomit anything!

Take a look here:

Maybe you can find something else useful!?
 
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nomennescio

nomennescio

Student
Jun 25, 2023
110
Hmm, at 40kg it might work!?
It can take up to 2 days or just 12 hours. Provided that you do not vomit anything!

Take a look here:

Maybe you can find something else useful!?
Yea thats what i was thinking..
I find myself hopping from one plan to another, hoping to find a better one..

Carbon monoxide just seems best, but like i said preparation is much work, at least for me right now..

Thanks for the link!
 
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Kera

Kera

Experienced
Jul 16, 2023
260
Yea thats what i was thinking..
I find myself hopping from one plan to another, hoping to find a better one..

Carbon monoxide just seems best, but like i said preparation is much work, at least for me right now..

Thanks for the link!
Gladly. If I had the opportunity for CO, it would also be an option for me. Yes, good preparation takes a lot of work, but it is definitely worth it. Sometimes I still wonder if there are more suicidal deaths with meticulous preparation or no preparation!?
 
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D

DreamEnd

Enlightened
Aug 4, 2022
1,892
@befree is this really legit method? I am thinking about it but am afraid I wont die
 
befree

befree

Time to do more enjoyable things _____Goodbye_____
Mar 22, 2022
2,587
@befree is this really legit method? I am thinking about it but am afraid I wont die
If you don't trust my translation, I can send you a download link with the complete book as soon as anonfiles is working again. Or do you know another site for anonymous data exchange?
 
D

DreamEnd

Enlightened
Aug 4, 2022
1,892
If you don't trust my translation, I can send you a download link with the complete book as soon as anonfiles is working again. Or do you know another site for anonymous data exchange?
no, i trust your translation. I just dont want to wake up brain damaged lol
 
befree

befree

Time to do more enjoyable things _____Goodbye_____
Mar 22, 2022
2,587
If you know another anonymous site where I can upload the book again, please post the link.
 
nomennescio

nomennescio

Student
Jun 25, 2023
110
Gladly. If I had the opportunity for CO, it would also be an option for me. Yes, good preparation takes a lot of work, but it is definitely worth it. Sometimes I still wonder if there are more suicidal deaths with meticulous preparation or no preparation!?
Hah yea been thinking about that myself as well. Over analyzing and preparing definitely doesnt help with si.. honestly i think most are without.

Im just in such a weak physical state that just taking some pills is best, im not really capable of much anymore. Im pretty safe in my bedroom as no one would ever get in there not after 48 hours neither.

Oh btw any reason why you should crush the pills? Does that make your body get the effects significantly faster? Or can i just as well swallow the pills without crushing?
 
S

Slark

Member
Apr 30, 2023
93
Hah yea been thinking about that myself as well. Over analyzing and preparing definitely doesnt help with si.. honestly i think most are without.

Im just in such a weak physical state that just taking some pills is best, im not really capable of much anymore. Im pretty safe in my bedroom as no one would ever get in there not after 48 hours neither.

Oh btw any reason why you should crush the pills? Does that make your body get the effects significantly faster? Or can i just as well swallow the pills without crushing?
crushing helps swallowing and prevents undigested parts. At least that's what I've read. Do you like Joy Division?
 
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nomennescio

nomennescio

Student
Jun 25, 2023
110
crushing helps swallowing and prevents undigested parts. At least that's what I've read. Do you like Joy Division?
Right, thanks!

Yes love Joy Division, you too? :-)
 
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Kera

Kera

Experienced
Jul 16, 2023
260
Oh btw any reason why you should crush the pills? Does that make your body get the effects significantly faster? Or can i just as well swallow the pills without crushing?

Pills are not only the drug but some fillers mixed into the drug. And those fillers if you take enough of those will form a solid ball in your stomach called a bollus. Aside from the possibility of failing or having heart damage you may also have that which is not pleasant.
Like all the previous speakers:

It is advantageous to crush tablets and to empty capsules, as this speeds up the effect.

If the amount of tablets is very large, it is advisable to grind them finely or dissolve them directly in a glass with 150 ml of water and drink quickly.

Please remember: dragees (coated tablets) cannot be crushed or opened, they must be swallowed whole or in low-sugar (with sweetener)
semi-liquid porridge, pudding or applesauce.

See also the article by "Medidation guide"!
 
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nomennescio

nomennescio

Student
Jun 25, 2023
110
Like all the previous speakers:

It is advantageous to crush tablets and to empty capsules, as this speeds up the effect.

If the amount of tablets is very large, it is advisable to grind them finely or dissolve them directly in a glass with 150 ml of water and drink quickly.

Please remember: dragees (coated tablets) cannot be crushed or opened, they must be swallowed whole or in low-sugar (with sweetener)
semi-liquid porridge, pudding or applesauce.

See also the article by "Medidation guide"!
Oh great thank you. I havent been reading enough.
Pretty crappy though, since i have film tablets. Not the thick ones tho, just a thin layer.. seems like with only 7g and not being able to crush them this would not be a good idea? My temazepam are also liquid capsules. At this point im almost willing to just risk it as it really seems as the best method for me. With the sn im totally sure that i will vomit up everything immediately as my stomach is very weak.

ACC852ED 5133 4271 BD83 D0C624B3613F
These are the type i have btw
 
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Kera

Kera

Experienced
Jul 16, 2023
260
Oh great thank you. I havent been reading enough.
Pretty crappy though, since i have film tablets. Not the thick ones tho, just a thin layer.. seems like with only 7g and not being able to crush them this would not be a good idea? My temazepam are also liquid capsules. At this point im almost willing to just risk it as it really seems as the best method for me. With the sn im totally sure that i will vomit up everything immediately as my stomach is very weak.

View attachment 118390
These are the type i have btw
Phew!! These are clearly dragees, not film-coated tablets. Yes, the pharmaceutical industry doesn't make it easy for us. Amitriptyline is also available as an uncoated tablet, but this is only available by prescription.
 
N

no more pain

Member
Sep 24, 2021
27
Phew!! These are clearly dragees, not film-coated tablets. Yes, the pharmaceutical industry doesn't make it easy for us. Amitriptyline is also available as an uncoated tablet, but this is only available by prescription.
I have the same one, on the back it says -film-coated tablets- and they can be crushed to powder and mix with water
---
so it's not a dragee in my opinion
 
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Kera

Kera

Experienced
Jul 16, 2023
260
I have the same one, on the back it says -film-coated tablets- and they can be crushed to powder and mix with water
---
so it's not a dragee in my opinion
Please have a look here:


Post #23 with photo. The blister says coated tablet (dragee) and it has no notch. Therefore not suitable for crushing!

There is often confusion!

Post #34 Difference between coated tablet and film-coated tablet
 
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N

no more pain

Member
Sep 24, 2021
27
I strongly suggest you read my most recent post in the thread on propranolol OD. Crushing and mixing with water is my recommendation
Kera
yours are written -uberzogene tabletten /dragees/-
mine only has -film-coated tablets-

but they also don't have a notch to break