Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[limeoctave]

And how could the pressure in the cylinder decrease? After all, the cylinder is filled with gas at a pressure of 150 bar or 200 bar, for example ...
And it turns out that the amount of gas in the cylinder should change if you use it, but not the pressure under which this gas was pumped into the cylinder

As I understand it, the pressure and the amount of gas can decrease over time due to small leaks, and the pressure decreases because the amount of gas decreases, because the very large amount of gas in the tank creates that pressure, but I'm not sure

 

[outrider567]

And how could the pressure in the cylinder decrease? After all, the cylinder is filled with gas at a pressure of 150 bar or 200 bar, for example ...
And it turns out that the amount of gas in the cylinder should change if you use it, but not the pressure under which this gas was pumped into the cylinder

doesn't matter

 

[kudaphillips]

ok… new member longtime suicide venturer but I have ridiculous SI , huge fear of failure and being vegetable because I do not trust anything in life especially after how it's gone . To wimpy for firearms but might go this route because less chance of SI ruining the attempt , but it's freaking tough to do. Prob got mentally closest with shotgun method , Nembutal owner but can't figure out the exit test kits, never works, and my brain is fucked and doesn't metabolize drugs correctly and I get horrendous unspeakable reactions from this drug class ( gaba agonists ) . Anyway…the exit bag method

I've had a 20 cf nitrogen tank for a few years , made several exit bags , different elastics , headband , I pull it over my head most nights to try and get used to it , never started the gas though. After reading through the thread I decided to get a 40 cf , starting to feel a little better about it because gas running out was a large fear. My questions are

1. Size of the chord..I cannot find a toggle large enough for the half inch elastic recommend …anywhere ..tried hard… I have pretty small elastic( less than the recommended 5/8 inch), but this shouldn't really matter right ? As long as not too tight and not too lose , you should be able to slip a finger under it , it should be fine ? This doesn't seem to be a main source of failure but want to make sure

2. Gone crazy with the step of taping the tubing to the bag. Ppeh had a ridiculous complex explanation of this ( cut two slits in duct tape and feed a wire tie through it ) etc, also says the Betty video shows how to do this..took me forever to find the Betty video and it doesn't say anything about this . Shouldn't you just tape the tube inside the bag 5-8 cm from ththe bottom and that be totally fine ?this shouldn't matter much I feel?

3.the use of micropore tape. I feel it sticks pretty well…but duct tape and packing tape seem to stick way better ..is there a reason other than sticking power that these tapes aren't used?

4. Failures.. and why they happen. If the nitrogen is tested,40 cf tank, max dog regulator at 15 lpm, turkey exit bag made correctly , bag filled up till it's like a balloon on forehead, rapid hyper breathing for 2 minutes, huge exhale even longer than you usually exhale , then biggest breath you can possibly take , sitting upright in a chair , tank strapped down so it won't fall, this shouldn't fail right?
I think maybe people don't take a big enough breath and it takes longer to blackout and they get SI ?
For something such heavily advocated in th community , I see an awful lot of failure stories , some horror stories with the brain damage . I understand there's failure with any method and it's just about finding one you're comfortable with to do nature best chance

5. Is it a good practice to follow the procedure , and if you don't pass out in a breath or two than bail on the attempt ? This thinking I feel will help my SI restrictions possibly. Or is this not recommended ? I've seen people say you don't get brain damage unless you pass out , and the attempt is subsequently botched for other reasons

 

[Coconteppi]

She linked an article under the quote I posted, but i did not really understand or connect how a lower sugar intake would lower the exhaled co2. I been searching for any more evidence but it's quite scarce, either it's not a well researched effect or there is no correlation. I found a study that showed increased co2 levels in diabetics, so it may have some impact? You seem more knowledgeable about medical science than I am.

Exhaled carbon monoxide levels elevated in diabetes and correlated with glucose concentration in blood: a new test for monitoring the disease? - PubMed

Elevated levels of exhaled CO in diabetes may reflect HO-1 induction and oxidative stress. The measurement of CO may be a new tool for disease monitoring.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Either way I can't say it matters in a significant way, co2 will always be exhaled and its effect is most prominent with exit bags since it has no exhaled valves.

I believe with more sugar/carbs cellular respiratuon increases. During this process the cells produce CO2. This is then carried by the blood stream and out the lungs. Hence more sugar > more cellular respiration > more CO2.

(Just speaking as a possible answer. Please do not take my word as fact.)

 

[outrider567]

Ok, i did another test with my Nitrogen Tank and the EEBD Hood--After 5 or 6 breaths at 25 LPM, my O2 level dropped from 97 to 80, I then felt a little faint, took the EEBD Hood off--In the next 10 seconds, my O2 Level dropped all the way to 40!--Nitrogen really eliminates Oxygen in the body quite quickly and effectively

ok… new member longtime suicide venturer but I have ridiculous SI , huge fear of failure and being vegetable because I do not trust anything in life especially after how it's gone . To wimpy for firearms but might go this route because less chance of SI ruining the attempt , but it's freaking tough to do. Prob got mentally closest with shotgun method , Nembutal owner but can't figure out the exit test kits, never works, and my brain is fucked and doesn't metabolize drugs correctly and I get horrendous unspeakable reactions from this drug class ( gaba agonists ) . Anyway…the exit bag method

I've had a 20 cf nitrogen tank for a few years , made several exit bags , different elastics , headband , I pull it over my head most nights to try and get used to it , never started the gas though. After reading through the thread I decided to get a 40 cf , starting to feel a little better about it because gas running out was a large fear. My questions are

1. Size of the chord..I cannot find a toggle large enough for the half inch elastic recommend …anywhere ..tried hard… I have pretty small elastic( less than the recommended 5/8 inch), but this shouldn't really matter right ? As long as not too tight and not too lose , you should be able to slip a finger under it , it should be fine ? This doesn't seem to be a main source of failure but want to make sure

2. Gone crazy with the step of taping the tubing to the bag. Ppeh had a ridiculous complex explanation of this ( cut two slits in duct tape and feed a wire tie through it ) etc, also says the Betty video shows how to do this..took me forever to find the Betty video and it doesn't say anything about this . Shouldn't you just tape the tube inside the bag 5-8 cm from ththe bottom and that be totally fine ?this shouldn't matter much I feel?

3.the use of micropore tape. I feel it sticks pretty well…but duct tape and packing tape seem to stick way better ..is there a reason other than sticking power that these tapes aren't used?

4. Failures.. and why they happen. If the nitrogen is tested,40 cf tank, max dog regulator at 15 lpm, turkey exit bag made correctly , bag filled up till it's like a balloon on forehead, rapid hyper breathing for 2 minutes, huge exhale even longer than you usually exhale , then biggest breath you can possibly take , sitting upright in a chair , tank strapped down so it won't fall, this shouldn't fail right?
I think maybe people don't take a big enough breath and it takes longer to blackout and they get SI ?
For something such heavily advocated in th community , I see an awful lot of failure stories , some horror stories with the brain damage . I understand there's failure with any method and it's just about finding one you're comfortable with to do nature best chance

5. Is it a good practice to follow the procedure , and if you don't pass out in a breath or two than bail on the attempt ? This thinking I feel will help my SI restrictions possibly. Or is this not recommended ? I've seen people say you don't get brain damage unless you pass out , and the attempt is subsequently botched for other reasons

There are no failures with Nitrogen if done with an EEBD Hood--I just did a retest with my pulse Oximeter, and my O2 level plummeted from 97 to 40 after just 6 breaths(ten second delay)--If I had taken a few more breaths, i wouldn't be here anymore

 

[limeoctave]

Ok, i did another test with my Nitrogen Tank and the EEBD Hood--After 5 or 6 breaths at 25 LPM, my O2 level dropped from 97 to 80, I then felt a little faint, took the EEBD Hood off--In the next 10 seconds, my O2 Level dropped all the way to 40!--Nitrogen really eliminates Oxygen in the body quite quickly and effectively

There are no failures with Nitrogen if done with an EEBD Hood--I just did a retest with my pulse Oximeter, and my O2 level plummeted from 97 to 40 after just 6 breaths(ten second delay)--If I had taken a few more breaths, i wouldn't be here anymore

thank you for sharing, it's so fast

do you know approximately how long it took? i mean first 5-6 breaths

 

[outrider567]

ok… new member longtime suicide venturer but I have ridiculous SI , huge fear of failure and being vegetable because I do not trust anything in life especially after how it's gone . To wimpy for firearms but might go this route because less chance of SI ruining the attempt , but it's freaking tough to do. Prob got mentally closest with shotgun method , Nembutal owner but can't figure out the exit test kits, never works, and my brain is fucked and doesn't metabolize drugs correctly and I get horrendous unspeakable reactions from this drug class ( gaba agonists ) . Anyway…the exit bag method

I've had a 20 cf nitrogen tank for a few years , made several exit bags , different elastics , headband , I pull it over my head most nights to try and get used to it , never started the gas though. After reading through the thread I decided to get a 40 cf , starting to feel a little better about it because gas running out was a large fear. My questions are

1. Size of the chord..I cannot find a toggle large enough for the half inch elastic recommend …anywhere ..tried hard… I have pretty small elastic( less than the recommended 5/8 inch), but this shouldn't really matter right ? As long as not too tight and not too lose , you should be able to slip a finger under it , it should be fine ? This doesn't seem to be a main source of failure but want to make sure

2. Gone crazy with the step of taping the tubing to the bag. Ppeh had a ridiculous complex explanation of this ( cut two slits in duct tape and feed a wire tie through it ) etc, also says the Betty video shows how to do this..took me forever to find the Betty video and it doesn't say anything about this . Shouldn't you just tape the tube inside the bag 5-8 cm from ththe bottom and that be totally fine ?this shouldn't matter much I feel?

3.the use of micropore tape. I feel it sticks pretty well…but duct tape and packing tape seem to stick way better ..is there a reason other than sticking power that these tapes aren't used?

4. Failures.. and why they happen. If the nitrogen is tested,40 cf tank, max dog regulator at 15 lpm, turkey exit bag made correctly , bag filled up till it's like a balloon on forehead, rapid hyper breathing for 2 minutes, huge exhale even longer than you usually exhale , then biggest breath you can possibly take , sitting upright in a chair , tank strapped down so it won't fall, this shouldn't fail right?
I think maybe people don't take a big enough breath and it takes longer to blackout and they get SI ?
For something such heavily advocated in th community , I see an awful lot of failure stories , some horror stories with the brain damage . I understand there's failure with any method and it's just about finding one you're comfortable with to do nature best chance

5. Is it a good practice to follow the procedure , and if you don't pass out in a breath or two than bail on the attempt ? This thinking I feel will help my SI restrictions possibly. Or is this not recommended ? I've seen people say you don't get brain damage unless you pass out , and the attempt is subsequently botched for other reasons

There are no failures with Nitrogen if done with an EEBD Hood--I just did a retest with my pulse Oximeter, and my O2 level plummeted from 97 to 40 after just 6 breaths(ten second delay)--If I had taken a few more breaths, i wouldn't be here anymore

thank you for sharing, it's so fast

do you know approximately how long it took? i mean first 5-6 breaths

30 seconds or less I think

 

[limeoctave]

does anyone know if Drager Saver CF is suitable for the EEBD method?

i just remember that someone wrote here that there were problems with some eebd hood model

 

[Authentic13]

I agree with Shewaitsforme: you would have a difficult time reducing the available O2 in such a large, gas-permeable space. Technically yes, you could do it, but it would take a lot of N2 and careful preparation of the car.

Don't confuse inert gas asphyxiation (IGA) with CO poisoning. They work through completely different mechanisms.

With IGA you are displacing O2 from your environment, thus depriving your body of necessary O2, while flushing away the CO2 that would trigger your body's hypercapnic alarm and cause involuntary self-preservation. To effectively displace the O2, you need a controlled environment from which the O2 can first be flushed and then excluded. So first you need to get rid of all the air, then you need to keep out any further air, then you need to flush away your exhaled CO2. The smaller the space, and the more readily the space is sealed, the easier this is to accomplish.

When you put an exit bag over your head, you are creating a low-O2 environment. The CO2 is flushed away by the constant flow of inert gas, preventing alarm, and you are allowing your body to use up whatever O2 it has in its bloodstream while not providing it any more.

Short version: The O2 in your body runs out and isn't replaced.

With CO poisoning, you aren't displacing air/O2 from the environment; you are introducing into the environment a molecule (CO) which binds more readily to your blood than O2 does. You're providing your haemoglobin with an easier alternative than O2; your body grabs the CO and ignores the O2. Since your blood can only carry so many gas molecules at a time, with the CO taking up all the room in your bloodstream your body is starved of O2.

When you climb into your car with a barbecue that's putting out CO, there's still plenty of O2 in the car's environment. You're not excluding the O2 as you need to do with IGA --replacing the air with a completely different gas-- you're adding to the existing air a new substance (CO) that your body prefers to O2. This preferential-molecule process makes it much simpler to manage the environment on a large scale. You don't need to get rid of the O2, you just need to provide enough CO to take up all the space for O2 in your bloodstream.

Short version: The O2 available to your body is ignored in favor of CO.

Extremely helpful! I am/was considering a method that wouldn't purge CO2 from the bag and if I'm readinf corrwctly, it appears that my SI would be triggered involuntarily even if asleep or unconscious, correct?

 

[limeoctave]

Extremely helpful! I am/was considering a method that wouldn't purge CO2 from the bag and if I'm readinf corrwctly, it appears that my SI would be triggered involuntarily even if asleep or unconscious, correct?

i guess so, it's not even SI, it's more hypercapnia i guess

 

[Authentic13]

No, don't try to turn your car into a N2 tent; it will take too much N2 to fill the car and adequately displace the air. The reason a bag is used is to create a small space for the N2 to adequately fill.

Unless you have a very large supply of N2, and an air-tight car, turning your car into a super-sized exit bag won't work.

There are conflicting accounts. A few say that some people have tried to remove the eb once they fall unconscious. Most say that people do not try to tear the bag away. I personally believe I (and you) will not claw the bag away.

Many accounts report some "twitching" after falling unconscious, which I can believe: the fading electrical activity of a dying brain can cause minor spasms. This is why it's better to position yourself so that if this twitching causes you to slump over, any unconscious rubbing your head against the wall won't displace the bag. Likewise, you don't want to being lying down for the same reason: the twitching could make you rub your head against the pillow hard enough to displace the bag.

My speculation --and this is entirely speculation!-- is that the accounts of convulsions and trying to tear the bag away come from three things:

1) Pro-lifers trying to slander a peaceful way to ctb and deter those who would try it.

2) Poorly constructed or poorly managed apparatus leading to inadequate flushing of CO2 from the exit bag, which causes the person's hypercapnic alarm to trip --which does lead to them trying to claw their way out of the bag. This is why a flow of 15Lpm, and an elastic drawcord to allow the CO2 to be flushed, is so important.

3) People trying to ctb by suffocating themselves with a bag alone, not using inert gas. I have come across accounts where early exit bags were used without inert gas: the person attempting to ctb would take a heavy dose of sedatives and then don the exit bag just as they would if they were using inert gas. They would hold the bag open with their hands, working against the elastic drawcord, so that when the sedatives took effect and they fell unconscious, their hands would fall away and the elastic would close off the bag around their face. They would then suffocate while under sedation. Theoretically the sedation would overcome the hypercapnic alarm and allow them to suffocate, but I can see how misjudging the dose of sedative could easily lead to failure when they were not unconscious enough to prevent themselves from tearing away the bag.

3) is precisely what I was/am afraid of with my method . Shoot! Thanks for the extremely helpful info! Back to the drawing board for me it seems.

 

[limeoctave]

i guess so, it's not even SI, it's more hypercapnia i guess

i also heard about cases, when people pulled of their bags, when being unconscious, but I'm not sure, please correct me if I'm wrong

 

[Authentic13]

i guess so, it's not even SI, it's more hypercapnia i guess

Yes, whatever we call it, it appears to be a reflex action that is likely ro happen even if under the influence of enough intoxicants to put me out initially. This doing away with oneself in a relatively painless and less traumatic for loved ones is a major chore! Thanks for the response.

 

[limeoctave]

Yes, whatever we call it, it appears to be a reflex action that is likely ro happen even if under the influence of enough intoxicants to put me out initially. This doing away with oneself in a relatively painless and less traumatic for loved ones is a major chore! Thanks for the response.

maybe @Kapsyl can share his thoughts on this as well

 

[krokilo]

There are no failures with Nitrogen if done with an EEBD Hood--I just did a retest with my pulse Oximeter, and my O2 level plummeted from 97 to 40 after just 6 breaths(ten second delay)--If I had taken a few more breaths, i wouldn't be here anymore

30 seconds or less I think

Can you please tell what CO meter do you use? Here on in privat messages, thank you

 

[Kapsyl]

Extremely helpful! I am/was considering a method that wouldn't purge CO2 from the bag and if I'm readinf corrwctly, it appears that my SI would be triggered involuntarily even if asleep or unconscious, correct?

What kind of method are you considering which doesn't purge the co2, just a bag?

The unconsciousness from inert hypoxia is a result of to little oxygen to support cognitive functions and basically shuts down to save resources. If there are any involuntary reflexes they would be quite basic and easily stopped with some tie downs on the hands.

But with a high co2 level the body respond much more drastically since it's highly aware of the immediate danger it's under. Even if you would last so long that your the brink of unconsciousness, it's quite possible the last cognitive thought would be to rip of the bag/hood whatever to survive. You can't trust the body to reason when the survival instincts kicks in and takes over rational thoughts.

That's the real benefit of inert gas, your body doesn't know only your mind.

 

[kudaphillips]

There are no failures with Nitrogen if done with an EEBD Hood--I just did a retest with my pulse Oximeter, and my O2 level plummeted from 97 to 40 after just 6 breaths(ten second delay)--If I had taken a few more breaths, i wouldn't be here anymore

30 seconds or less I think

Is there a thread for the eebd method? Is it in the PPH? I have 2022 edition. Also, why are there no failures with it? Because 8t doesn't get pulled off as easily ?

 

[outrider567]

Can you please tell what CO meter do you use? Here on in privat messages, thank you

Its just a cheap pulse oximeter, they're all the same, about 30 bucks

Is there a thread for the eebd method? Is it in the PPH? I have 2022 edition. Also, why are there no failures with it? Because 8t doesn't get pulled off as easily ?

Yes, its on the neck pretty tight--EEBD Hood method is mentioned extensively in the Inert Gas Mega Thread, pages 40 to 60 I think--Greenberg was high on it

 

[sufferingsensless]

Okay only issue is I just see tanks for 10-50 liters online in Europe( Germany/austria)

 

[limeoctave]

Is there a thread for the eebd method? Is it in the PPH? I have 2022 edition. Also, why are there no failures with it? Because 8t doesn't get pulled off as easily ?

there's information about the EEBD method in these threads

Nitrogen gas with EEBD hood Guide (Inert gas Method)

NITROGEN GAS WITH EEBD HOOD (INERT GAS METHOD) before I start this guide, let’s be honest this method is expensive (approximately 600 to 800 dollars)and you need minimum 1 -2 months to source the equipments and nitrogen gas cylinder. My tip for you to do it cheap, purchase the Chinese products...

sanctioned-suicide.net

EEBD hood setup for dummies (like me)

EEBD Hood Setup I have an Emergency Escape Breathing Device (EEBD ) hood with inert gas setup. My one looks like this: Here's another pic example. Some people lately were asking questions about the hood setup, and how to attach it to a cylinder, etc. I'm doing this thread so that I can easily...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[outrider567]

i also heard about cases, when people pulled of their bags, when being unconscious, but I'm not sure, please correct me if I'm wrong

That would be difficult to do with an EEBD Hood

 

[limeoctave]

That would be difficult to do with an EEBD Hood

yes, and if you strap yourself and arms to chair

 

[kudaphillips]

Scanning through the eebd method, it just seems like added complexity , hose extension clamps, crimping correctly , china sourced material . Higher chance of Leaks , having to do all that crimping, Teflon tape …. I dunno…. . Yes you can soap test it but leak can develop in the process . Those turkey bags are freaking durable , and won't leak, leaving only vector for a leak potential wih exit bag method at the regulator . But I understand eebd elimates cO2 that can cause problems … tough decision .

 

[kudaphillips]

can someone provide a source for a toggle that will fit the recommended size stretch chord? I have very small chord 10 mm, but want to use the recommended 1/2 inch . I've scoured every local,store and the internet for about a year now, and I absolutely cannot find a toggle that fits th larger chord .

Thanks

 

[silas0]

What do you think the immediate experience would be after unconsciousness?
Since brain neurons have no nerve do you think any pain would be perceived immediately after unconsciousness?
Any thoughts are appreciated

 

[Kapsyl]

can someone provide a source for a toggle that will fit the recommended size stretch chord? I have very small chord 10 mm, but want to use the recommended 1/2 inch . I've scoured every local,store and the internet for about a year now, and I absolutely cannot find a toggle that fits th larger chord .

Thanks

Aren't 1/2 inch roughly 12mm? 10 mm is pretty close. I found one model which accommodate a 1/2 inch cord but only one, unless you combine the two toggles or tie the elastic into a hanging knot one is not enough.

Another solution is using a flat elastic instead, like a 1 inch elastic band. Then there are countless of options to secure and adjust the strap! Including the use of a side release buckle, making aborting a breeze for the suicidal with doubts.

I found some fashionable elastic band with flames, but that's optional.

What do you think the immediate experience would be after unconsciousness?
Since brain neurons have no nerve do you think any pain would be perceived immediately after unconsciousness?
Any thoughts are appreciated

When the body is experiencing cerebral hypoxia and loses unconsciousness, it does so because the oxygen level is too low to support it. This is not the same as being asleep as you aren't responsive to stimuli.

So the question is really do you regain some form of cognitive functions while being unconscious, maybe manifesting as dreams? We all heard of the classic story of walking into the light when dying, maybe this is visual representation of not enough oxygen to even support the most basic of cognitive function.

I would look up cardiac arrest survival stories, preferably those who been "dead" for 5-10 min. These cases are similar enough as it also deprive the brain of vital oxygen, all through much more abruptly.

In my humble opinion I believe the sensation after unconsciousness if any would be spiritual and not painful. Dreams can experience faster than real life. I believe in this short window before and after unconsciousness these powerful images manifests, the classic light in the tunnel and seeing the loved ones for example. After entering the tunnel I don't believe there is more.

Death occurs 10-15 min later.

 

[kudaphillips]

Aren't 1/2 inch roughly 12mm? 10 mm is pretty close. I found one model which accommodate a 1/2 inch cord but only one, unless you combine the two toggles or tie the elastic into a hanging knot one is not enough.

Another solution is using a flat elastic instead, like a 1 inch elastic band. Then there are countless of options to secure and adjust the strap! Including the use of a side release buckle, making aborting a breeze for the suicidal with doubts.

I found some fashionable elastic band with flames, but that's optional.

View attachment 136924


View attachment 136925




When the body is experiencing cerebral hypoxia and loses unconsciousness, it does so because the oxygen level is too low to support it. This is not the same as being asleep as you aren't responsive to stimuli.

So the question is really do you regain some form of cognitive functions while being unconscious, maybe manifesting as dreams? We all heard of the classic story of walking into the light when dying, maybe this is visual representation of not enough oxygen to even support the most basic of cognitive function.

I would look up cardiac arrest survival stories, preferably those who been "dead" for 5-10 min. These cases are similar enough as it also deprive the brain of vital oxygen, all through much more abruptly.

In my humble opinion I believe the sensation after unconsciousness if any would be spiritual and not painful. Dreams can experience faster than real life. I believe in this short window before and after unconsciousness these powerful images manifests, the classic light in the tunnel and seeing the loved ones for example. After entering the tunnel I don't believe there is more.

Death occurs 10-15 min later.

Ah ya, mine sdef not 10 mm then, maybe 3-4 mm

 

[silas0]

In my humble opinion I believe the sensation after unconsciousness if any would be spiritual and not painful. Dreams can experience faster than real life. I believe in this short window before and after unconsciousness these powerful images manifests, the classic light in the tunnel and seeing the loved ones for example. After entering the tunnel I don't believe there is more.

Death occurs 10-15 min later.

Much appreciated! The vast majority of those who had NDE's had somewhat a pleasant experience and that kind of confirms your theory.
Apparently through evolutionary process human body has learnt to create a pleasant/euphoric experience when brain is in serious trouble/stress.

 

[limeoctave]

just tried to inhale nitrogen from a balloon, no taste or smell, just a little headache after a while

@outrider567 did you have any headache after your tests?

 

[outrider567]

just tried to inhale nitrogen from a balloon, no taste or smell, just a little headache after a while

@outrider567 did you have any headache after your tests?

No, no headache