Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[limeoctave]

So I've tried it just now, and as you can guess, it didn't work. I spent about 10 minutes (maybe 12-13) with the bag on, nitro flowing at 15 lpm (according to my regulator that is). All I felt was some tingling — hands at first, rest of the body later — and some dizziness/weakness. It also got kinda hot. No fear, no panic, no suffocation, no survival instinct, no flinching, nothing unpleasant at all. But I never felt close to losing consciousness, either.

So now I wonder what did I do wrong? Maybe the bag is too large? What size do you guys use?

did you check your blood oxygen percentage with finger oximeter?

 

[kudaphillips]

I don't have any doubts regarding the nitro. I bought it from the biggest gas factory of my country, they produce not only technical gases, but also medical ones. It has to be legit.

Did you scrunch out all the air before you started the gas ? Tell me exactly what you did as far as procedure

 

[moloko plus]

did you check your blood oxygen percentage with finger oximeter?

No, and right now I'm exactly purchasing an oximeter for the next attempt.

Did you scrunch out all the air before you started the gas ? Tell me exactly what you did as far as procedure

As much as I could, yes. I don't think it was 100% empty, but it felt empty enough. Knowing how important this one step is, I put some effort into it, and didn't turn the gas on until I was sure I did the best scrunching I could do.

 

[Kapsyl]

I don't have any doubts regarding the nitro. I bought it from the biggest gas factory of my country, they produce not only technical gases, but also medical ones. It has to be legit.

It has to be the elastic, it looks way to loose. Does it fit snug around your neck? Air is definitely leaking in somewhere and the fact that you could sit 10 min without that much trouble definitely indicates that. Adjust/get better elastic and crank that lpm up and it should work. With only 15 lpm you should run out of nitrogen" pretty quick inside the bag.

 

[limeoctave]

No, and right now I'm exactly purchasing an oximeter for the next attempt.

As much as I could, yes. I don't think it was 100% empty, but it felt empty enough.

how did you check that your flow is correct? seems that your regulator doesn't have flowmeter, did you convert the psi to lpm?

there are test flowmeters, like in the attachment, maybe it could be helpful

 

[moloko plus]

It has to be the elastic, it looks way to loose. Does it fit snug around your neck? Air is definitely leaking in somewhere and the fact that you could sit 10 min without that much trouble definitely indicates that. Adjust/get better elastic and crank that lpm up and it should work. With only 15 lpm you should run out of nitrogen" pretty quick inside the bag.

It's loose on the pic 'cuz I loosened it when putting the bag off after I realized it's not working. During the attempt it was pretty tight, here I recreated it:

how did you check that your flow is correct? seems that your regulator doesn't have flowmeter, did you convert the psi to lpm?

there are test flowmeters, like in the attachment, maybe it could be helpful

There's a flowmeter on my regulator. It's that red scale, going up to 30 lpm max.

 

[limeoctave]

There's a flowmeter on my regulator. It's that red scale, going up to 30 lpm max.

it's not the actual flowmeter, it's not so accurate, and is it calibrated for nitrogen?

 

[moloko plus]

it's not the actual flowmeter, it's not so accurate, and is it calibrated for nitrogen?

It is a nitrogen regulator. Now, I'm not an expert in this field, so I don't know if the brand is any good, but the thing is definitely advertised as a nitro regulator. How's it not actual?

 

[limeoctave]

How's it not actual?

i mean, it does not measure the actual gas flow rate, it just correlates the pressure with the flow rate, but it may be accurate enough, of course, but i'm not sure

 

[kudaphillips]

It's loose on the pic 'cuz I loosened it when putting the bag off after I realized it's not working. During the attempt it was pretty tight, here I recreated it:

There's a flowmeter on my regulator. It's that red scale, going up to 30 lpm max.

It looks like rope? Or is it stretchy elastic ? If you're gas is for sure good, the. It's procedure where you went wrong , which is why I'm asking for you to please go step by step exactly what you did .

 

[moloko plus]

it does not measure the actual gas flow rate, it just correlate the pressure with the flow rate, but it may be accurate enough, of course, but I'm not sure

I guess, I'll crank it up to 20 lpm next time, with smaller bag and oximeter as well.

Good thing about this whole ordeal is that now I know I can actually do it and won't chicken out. It took me some time to get my courage up for the first attempt, but in the process I surprisingly didn't have any doubts.

It looks like rope? Or is it stretchy elastic ? If you're gas is for sure good, the. It's procedure where you went wrong , which is why I'm asking for you to please go step by step exactly what you did .

Well, it was sold as 'cord', I believe, but I'm not sure if it qualifies as 'elastic'. English isn't my first language, so I had to google an 'elastic cord' and then bought something that looked similar. I figured, the material doesn't really matter as long as the thing can stay tight enough, which I felt it did.

Anyway, here it is:

 

[moloko plus]

Alright, so I bought some new stuff for the new bag. And oximeter. And some booze for extra fun. Gonna build the bag now and try it again.

 

[moloko plus]

Failed again. Made two attempts this time around, one after another. The first one ended in air hunger and panic — likely because I set the cord too tight around my neck. The second one was basically the same as yesterday. Except this time I had an oximeter — and it only went from 96% to 77%.

Two more sessions like that, and I won't even have enough nitro left, lmao.

Something is very wrong with some of my stuff, and I tend to suspect the flowmeter. The bag was inflating super slow during every attempt. At the same time, the hissing of gas was pretty loud... So I'm totally confused, and starting to think maybe I should go for sodium nitrite.

 

[kudaphillips]

Failed again. Made two attempts this time around, one after another. The first one ended in air hunger and panic — likely because I set the cord too tight around my neck. The second one was basically the same as yesterday. Except this time I had an oximeter — and it only went from 96% to 77%.

Two more sessions like that, and I won't even have enough nitro left, lmao.

Something is very wrong with some of my stuff, and I tend to suspect the flowmeter. The bag was inflating super slow during every attempt. At the same time, the hissing of gas was pretty loud... So I'm totally confused, and starting to think maybe I should go for sodium nitrite.

Again…please explain the exact process you did step by step , or no one can help you. Also, yes the bag should be inflated in way less than a minute , at 20lpm probably around 30-40 seconds . Even then should still wait 1.5-2 minutes for it to purge all oxygen out .

Also your bags look a little small. Don't they have any roasting bags for turkey size? Smaller bags result in air hunger , not enough nitrogen in there . E
Also , your really gonna want the right chord. Needs to be stretchy .
Also , while you may be confident your nitrogen is 99.9 %… even the most reputable gas supply still sells lower mixtures , doesn't mean they aren't a legit supplier, but certain applications call for lower mixtures .

 

[moloko plus]

Again…please explain the exact process you did step by step , or no one can help you. Also, yes the bag should be inflated in way less than a minute , at 20lpm probably around 30-40 seconds . Even then should still wait 1.5-2 minutes for it to purge all oxygen out .

Also your bags look a little small. Don't they have any roasting bags for turkey size? Smaller bags result in air hunger , not enough nitrogen in there . E
Also , your really gonna want the right chord. Needs to be stretchy .
Also , while you may be confident your nitrogen is 99.9 %… even the most reputable gas supply still sells lower mixtures , doesn't mean they aren't a legit supplier, but certain applications call for lower mixtures .

Here's what I do step by step:

1. Sit on my bed, reclined against the wall, supported by pillows from each side. The cylinder is on the left, placed and fixed firmly between the bed and another wall to prevent it from falling over.

2. I put the bag over my head and tighten up the cord, so I can stick a finger between it and the neck. The tube is on the left side of the bag, on the cylinder side, it's about 2.5 meter long.

3. I move the bag up so it's placed like a shower cap: above eyes, below ears. The cord feels tight on the forehead.

4. I scrunch the air out of the bag as much as I can.

5. I fully open the cylinder and set the flowmeter at the desired rate — 15-20 lpm. The hissing in the bag begins immediately as the flowmeter hand starts moving, and the sound gets increasingly louder on the way to the desired rate. Still, it never feels properly inflated no matter how long I wait.

6. Hyperventilation with one deep exhale before the next step.

7. Pull the bag down and tighten it a bit because it gets somewhat looser on the way down.

8. Inhale as deep as I can and keep breathing calmly and deeply for about 10 minutes.

9. Put the bag off, turn everything off.

10. Comment here:)


Could you please show me an example of the right cord?

As for the nitro, there's certification and specs label right on the cylinder. It says high-purity, meaning >99.9%

 

[kudaphillips]

YouR close, but definitely some issues

First of all, you def have an issue eith your regulator/ flow. The bag should inflate really fast especiallyy at 15-20lpm …I'd say about 45/seconds .and it will seem super full like a balloon .
Or you have a leak in the bag and it's not inflating properly . Or your not tightening it snug enough at step 7 , but it sounds like you are .
Assuming no bag leaks and it's snug around neck, you likely have a regulator issue ,

Most elastic will work , but you'll want to use a toggle, and it's hard to find big toggles. In my area this white elastic l works th best and can fit in small toggle .

 

[moloko plus]

YouR close, but definitely some issues

First of all, you def have an issue eith your regulator/ flow. The bag should inflate really fast especiallyy at 15-20lpm …I'd say about 45/seconds .and it will seem super full like a balloon .
Or you have a leak in the bag and it's not inflating properly . Or your not tightening it snug enough at step 7 , but it sounds like you are .
Assuming no bag leaks and it's snug around neck, you likely have a regulator issue ,

Most elastic will work , but you'll want to use a toggle, and it's hard to find big toggles. In my area this white elastic l works th best and can fit in small toggle .View attachment 140362

Yes, I think you're right, I suspect the flowmeter too. It can't be right that the bag isn't like a balloon after several minutes of 15-20 lpm flow. Maybe I should try to inflate an actual balloon to see whether it's the flowmeter or the elastic part.

Finding a toggle big enough is an issue indeed. Preparing for today's attempts, I bought a new cord, but it wouldn't get through the toggle. And I couldn't buy another toggle because it was Sunday and all sewing shops were closed, so I had to use my old cord/rope.

Do you think these elastics in the photos below would work? Or maybe I could pull an elastic from some of my underwear?

 

[kudaphillips]

Yes, I think you're right, I suspect the flowmeter too. It can't be right that the bag isn't like a balloon after several minutes of 15-20 lpm flow. Maybe I should try to inflate an actual balloon to see whether it's the flowmeter or the elastic part.

Finding a toggle big enough is an issue indeed. Preparing for today's attempts, I bought a new cord, but it wouldn't get through the toggle. And I couldn't buy another toggle because it was Sunday and all sewing shops were closed, so I had to use my old cord/rope.

Do you think these elastics in the photos below would work? Or maybe I could pull an elastic from some of my underwear?

Hard to tell from the pictures, as long as it's stretchy and fits in the toggle and not to tiny of diameter, though I think a tiny diameter would still work, as long as you can tell that you have that positive pressure . You may want to peruse gas,monkeys "share your exit bag / gas rig " thread so can see all the various chord and toggles that people have used .

 

[Placo]

I'm trying to mix this method up a bit with the plastic bag method because I don't think I can manage to sort through all the equipment without arousing suspicion from my family; the plan would be a helium cylinder used to inflate balloons, and that would already be suspicious, and instead of inflating balloons with it, connect it to a plastic bag so that the oxygen inside is replaced by helium and put it in immediately, However, the problem of exhaled CO2 would remain which could be annoying but as there is no oxygen in the bag, perhaps everything would last very little.

Another gas I thought of is nitrous oxide which is known to be a gas that has an exhilarating effect and it would be epic to do CTB with it but apparently to open the cylinders you need a kitchen siphon for whipped cream while those of helium they don't even need a depressurizer since they are intended for inflating party balloons.

 

[outrider567]

Failed again. Made two attempts this time around, one after another. The first one ended in air hunger and panic — likely because I set the cord too tight around my neck. The second one was basically the same as yesterday. Except this time I had an oximeter — and it only went from 96% to 77%.

Two more sessions like that, and I won't even have enough nitro left, lmao.

Something is very wrong with some of my stuff, and I tend to suspect the flowmeter. The bag was inflating super slow during every attempt. At the same time, the hissing of gas was pretty loud... So I'm totally confused, and starting to think maybe I should go for sodium nitrite.

Something is wrong for sure with your setup--After I took my EEBD Hood off after my Oxygen dropped from 98 to 80(about 5 breaths), it continued to drop to 40!---- 25 LPM was my setting, no question I can CTB anytime with this

Here's what I do step by step:

1. Sit on my bed, reclined against the wall, supported by pillows from each side. The cylinder is on the left, placed and fixed firmly between the bed and another wall to prevent it from falling over.

2. I put the bag over my head and tighten up the cord, so I can stick a finger between it and the neck. The tube is on the left side of the bag, on the cylinder side, it's about 2.5 meter long.

3. I move the bag up so it's placed like a shower cap: above eyes, below ears. The cord feels tight on the forehead.

4. I scrunch the air out of the bag as much as I can.

5. I fully open the cylinder and set the flowmeter at the desired rate — 15-20 lpm. The hissing in the bag begins immediately as the flowmeter hand starts moving, and the sound gets increasingly louder on the way to the desired rate. Still, it never feels properly inflated no matter how long I wait.

6. Hyperventilation with one deep exhale before the next step.

7. Pull the bag down and tighten it a bit because it gets somewhat looser on the way down.

8. Inhale as deep as I can and keep breathing calmly and deeply for about 10 minutes.

9. Put the bag off, turn everything off.

10. Comment here:)


Could you please show me an example of the right cord?

As for the nitro, there's certification and specs label right on the cylinder. It says high-purity, meaning >99.9%

10 minutes! You're supposed to pass out in about 1 minute

Again…please explain the exact process you did step by step , or no one can help you. Also, yes the bag should be inflated in way less than a minute , at 20lpm probably around 30-40 seconds . Even then should still wait 1.5-2 minutes for it to purge all oxygen out .

Also your bags look a little small. Don't they have any roasting bags for turkey size? Smaller bags result in air hunger , not enough nitrogen in there . E
Also , your really gonna want the right chord. Needs to be stretchy .
Also , while you may be confident your nitrogen is 99.9 %… even the most reputable gas supply still sells lower mixtures , doesn't mean they aren't a legit supplier, but certain applications call for lower mixtures .

99.0% is my percentage, its acceptable also, as per Greenberg, no human being can survive 99.0% Nitrogen

 

[Placo]

Do you know if the helium tanks for inflating balloons are 100% pure or mixed with oxygen?

 

[Kapsyl]

Do you know if the helium tanks for inflating balloons are 100% pure or mixed with oxygen?

Ballon time is one of the biggest manufacturer and main culprits that has been mixing air in their helium canister, they state it themselves on their website. Helium from Europe seems to have a higher purity but that's only what the manufacturer is stating, consumers rarely have the tools to measure and it could easily be a lower purity without anyone noticing. So it more of a question of how much you trust the manufacturer.

Cheap ballon canisters are kinda obsolete now since they leave much to desire in control of flow and amount of gas. Most have moved over to more precise setups with high grade inert gas and flow meters.

 

[Placo]

Ballon time is one of the biggest manufacturer and main culprits that has been mixing air in their helium canister, they state it themselves on their website. Helium from Europe seems to have a higher purity but that's only what the manufacturer is stating, consumers rarely have the tools to measure and it could easily be a lower purity without anyone noticing. So it more of a question of how much you trust the manufacturer.

Cheap ballon canisters are kinda obsolete now since they leave much to desire in control of flow and amount of gas. Most have moved over to more precise setups with high grade inert gas and flow meters.

Do you by any chance know how it is possible to buy an exit bag or how to make one yourself?

 

[Kapsyl]

Do you by any chance know how it is possible to buy an exit bag or how to make one yourself?

Haven't heard of anyone selling them really but they're relatively simply to manufacture. There's a small guide in the beginning of the tread and apparently some videos on YouTube, doing it with Betty comes to mind. I haven't done one myself since I dismissed the idea early on in favor of a mask setup.

 

[kudaphillips]

Was wondering why more people don't rig like the guy in this video, with multiple tanks for exit bag method ( other than financial reasons).
in the video seemed like he did it just to have an extra tank of air to allow practice ..but I think it's a good idea for a couple reasons . One being it doubles your flow rate , and also you now have a backup in the remote case something goes wrong with one tank / regulator .

 

[simplymiserable]

Hi I have a question about using an scba. If the demand valve is on and ur not wearing the mask, does the tank still release air?

 

[Onelegman]

I'm going to tell you my experience:

I bought a 5 liter cylinder of dry nitrogen and a pressure reducer. I also used an old airtight CPAP (sleep apnea) sleeping mask that my mother had with duct tape directly at the outlet of the pressure reducer.

2 hours unconscious, awake and the cylinder empty, apparently the pressure reducer did not have a suitable plug at the outlet of the nitrogen cylinder and when it rose more than 10 bars it leaked. Maybe if I had put the hose in a bag and tied it around my neck I would have achieved my goal, but for "comfort" I chose the CPAP mask...

I also took 2 mg of anxiolytic and 20 mg of hypnotic to be relaxed. The strange thing is that I did it in my car, despite the gas escaping, I think it should have affected me. Maybe 5 liters were insufficient. I will never know. Also after that, a week of enormous depression, enormous regret. And suddenly, boom, I got bell's palsy, half my face asleep, I don't know if it was because of the nitrogen or because of the disgrace of not having made it.

I'm not trying to scare you, I'm just telling you what happened to me, keep it in mind to avoid mistakes.

 

[Kapsyl]

I'm going to tell you my experience:

I bought a 5 liter cylinder of dry nitrogen and a pressure reducer. I also used an old airtight CPAP (sleep apnea) sleeping mask that my mother had with duct tape directly at the outlet of the pressure reducer.

Pressure reducer, do you mean a regulator?
Cpap mask often struggles to achieve a good airseal seal, only the high end mask manage this and it's not uncommon that when sleeping/unconscious the seal fails. Maintenance is also important to keep the seal, when you mention it's your mothers old mask it doesn't strike me with confidence.

An easy test would have been sealing the tube with your hand and attempt to breathe from the mask. I suspect you would have been able to breathe, maybe struggle but breathe nonetheless. I for example could breathe with quite easily with a full face mask when I had a beard, even if the mask was secured tightly to the face, the hair was enough too keep air coming because of the vacuum.

Did you duct tape the Cpap hose directly to the regulator outlet? I don't know the dimensions of your model but I can definitely see a problem keeping that connection airtight, even with duct tape.

apparently the pressure reducer did not have a suitable plug at the outlet of the nitrogen cylinder and when it rose more than 10 bars it leaked. Maybe if I had put the hose in a bag and tied it around my neck I would have achieved my goal, but for "comfort" I chose the CPAP mask...

I don't understand this sentence in bold

10 bars, do I assume right that you didn't use a flowmeter?

You're correct you'd had probably died using a bag. Even if it leaked from the regulator it wouldn't have let air in the system since nitrogen is continuously pushing it out.

Mask setups are incredibly sensitive to leaking since every time you breathe a vacuum is formed sucking air inside. The mask has to prevent this to be successful, this isn't as crucial in the design of the Cpap mask. The fact that you woke up after the nitrogen ran out tells me that there is a leak. The nitrogen flow was enough to render you unconscious, but the small leak from the mask provided enough oxygen to keep the cells alive. When the nitrogen ran out, the oxygen level rose allowing you to wake up.

I also took 2 mg of anxiolytic and 20 mg of hypnotic to be relaxed. The strange thing is that I did it in my car, despite the gas escaping, I think it should have affected me. Maybe 5 liters were insufficient.

Gas escaping in the car wouldn't have done anything in such low quantities, inert gas isn't poisonous. The mechanics is replacing the normal air with inert gas to starve the body of oxygen, the car is just too big to continuously push out the oxygen.

I'm sorry this happened to you, it must have been a terrible experience waking up and facing the fact that the attempt failed. I would been severely depressed after also so I understand.

Not to be deliberate rude, but did you do any research before trying this? Because there are quite a few points many would have warned you before trying this setup.

The cpap mask idea reminds me of an image the circles around other websites, which encourages this exact approach you did but with helium instead. Did you find inspiration from somewhere or was it your idea to use the mask?

I appreciate you writing this as a warning, inert gas especially with inferior mask are a huge risk of failure. I'm sure people will take your story to heart and think twice.

Again I'm sorry this happened to you and the situation it put you in now.

 

[Onelegman]

Pressure reducer, do you mean a regulator?

Well, old mask is the mask that my mother used before because they changed it, but it was not even half a year old, it was in perfect condition, I tightened it well to prevent it from leaking because I was afraid that the force of the gas would cause it to separate and escape.

The CPAP tube was a little narrower than the nut from which the gas came out, everything was perfect, tight, I did tests before of course, I think, if I fell asleep I couldn't make repairs. The car was off, I did it in a hospital parking lot to speed up the organ donation and blah blah.

Yes well, I use Google to translate, hand reducer is called here the device to regulate the pressure that comes out of the gas cylinder and the pressure that one looks for when using gas. 10 bares (annoying translator) is the pressure measurement. It wasn't too much, as I say, the hose stayed in place and there was no leak at that connection.

I did investigate, I found the method on a small blog of suicides who were looking for the same thing as the majority, a painless death, everything was explained very well, with many successes apparently, I had time before doing it to check what I had already done. said, weight of the gas bottle, learning to use the cranks, possible slack in the hose... and I took my time in the car so that everything was well assembled.

The problem was the connection between the reducer and the cylinder itself, since I went with a thick nut and the same store had sold it to me in a pack, I thought that in that aspect there would be no mistake, but anyway, it happened.

The truth is that I was quite afraid of the bag in the sense that it would fail more, tightly closed and nitrogen entering without stopping... I thought that sooner or later there would be a leak if it exploded and it no longer reached my respiratory system, the mask was more reliable, in my head that's what I thought.

Anyway, thanks for read me, I'm pretty sure at some point, this will help someone.

 

[moloko plus]

So I bought an actual balloon to test my regulator/flowmeter, and it inflated as quick as you'd imagine it should at your 15 lpm — something the bags on my head never did during my failed attempts. The cylinder and regulator end of the device seems to be fine then, I guess.

This made me think the problem was indeed, as kudaphillips suggested, me using some kind of rope/cord instead of proper elastic, and the gap near the neck was too wide. Here I made another bag — with what I think is 'elastic'. What do you, friends, think of this bad boi?