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3FailedAttemptss

3FailedAttemptss

trans girl (`・ω・´)
Jan 22, 2025
105
So yesterday I was on the phone with my mom and she was just saying how worried she was for me and that she was cleaning my room in a little while I was gone. And well, she found my SN and I froze and she was just saying like ha ha ha like now I have three fucking boxes of poison. I could probably kill an elephant with this much and if you want anything, then you'll have to ask me, but I'm not gonna give it to you. And we talk a little longer and I'm just fucking like all frozen

anyway, I fucking as soon as she hangs up, I immediately start crying like fucking crazy, which sucks because I was sitting out in the courtyard of the psych ward and I was just fucking crying and crying and crying and well I compose myself a little and asked to go to my room and then i fucking just breakdown even more and more and more and more and I ask for like some relaxing medication or something to calm me down and and I get that and I go back to my room and and there I break down fucking so bad. I break down so bad. I mean that's so fucking selfish to decide if I live or die, I mean that's fucked up and I'm just fucking crying.

I think I cried for hours and and eventually I try to hang myself on one of the clothes hooks with my bag that I packed my stuff in. It has two straps and I get it around my neck and I put it on the clothes hook and I fucking know how to partial hang and well obviously the hooks fucking- I fall off the hook because this is a psych ward. You can't hang yourself and then I'm fucking just crying on the ground with this fucking bag around my neck and my caretaker walks in on me. I just tried to hang myself.

So yeah, don't do that. Don't try to kill yourself in the psych ward. That's a really bad idea. I found out so they're probably gonna keep me here for a couple weeks and I've talked to a couple doctors and it sounds like they want to try electro shock therapy and that sounds really scary and I don't know what to make of that. Has anyone had any good experiences with that? Is it should I try it or should I say no I don't want that. Just keep me here.
 
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Namelesa

Namelesa

Trapped in this Suffering
Sep 21, 2024
1,527
God I am so sorry for you :< Its so awful you are trapped here and have your SN, an escape route out of your pain, to be taken away from you again. Mental health help, especially psyche wards, are so darn useless a lot of the time and can cause more harm like now. Everyone is so selfish here for not actually properly helping you end your suffering in your terms.
 
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hang in there

hang in there

get it, har har
Apr 17, 2025
157
So yesterday I was on the phone with my mom and she was just saying how worried she was for me and that she was cleaning my room in a little while I was gone. And well, she found my SN and I froze and she was just saying like ha ha ha like now I have three fucking boxes of poison. I could probably kill an elephant with this much and if you want anything, then you'll have to ask me, but I'm not gonna give it to you. And we talk a little longer and I'm just fucking like all frozen

anyway, I fucking as soon as she hangs up, I immediately start crying like fucking crazy, which sucks because I was sitting out in the courtyard of the psych ward and I was just fucking crying and crying and crying and well I compose myself a little and asked to go to my room and then i fucking just breakdown even more and more and more and more and I ask for like some relaxing medication or something to calm me down and and I get that and I go back to my room and and there I break down fucking so bad. I break down so bad. I mean that's so fucking selfish to decide if I live or die, I mean that's fucked up and I'm just fucking crying.

I think I cried for hours and and eventually I try to hang myself on one of the clothes hooks with my bag that I packed my stuff in. It has two straps and I get it around my neck and I put it on the clothes hook and I fucking know how to partial hang and well obviously the hooks fucking- I fall off the hook because this is a psych ward. You can't hang yourself and then I'm fucking just crying on the ground with this fucking bag around my neck and my caretaker walks in on me. I just tried to hang myself.

So yeah, don't do that. Don't try to kill yourself in the psych ward. That's a really bad idea. I found out so they're probably gonna keep me here for a couple weeks and I've talked to a couple doctors and it sounds like they want to try electro shock therapy and that sounds really scary and I don't know what to make of that. Has anyone had any good experiences with that? Is it should I try it or should I say no I don't want that. Just keep me here.
ECT is the number one most effective treatment ever discovered for mood disorders. Literally no medication has ever come close to its effectiveness. After each treatment there is temporary amnesia for the day or so following up to it, but there are no permanent side effects. I think you're very very lucky to be offered it and I really hope it works for you.
 
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Praestat_Mori

Mori praestat, quam haec pati!
May 21, 2023
12,382
I'm sorry you have to go through this. It's awful.

I think there are some threads about ECT in the recovery section.

Can you be forced to do this electro therapy?
 
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3FailedAttemptss

3FailedAttemptss

trans girl (`・ω・´)
Jan 22, 2025
105
I'm sorry you have to go through this. It's awful.

I think there are some threads about ECT in the recovery section.

Can you be forced to do this electro therapy?
I've made a post in the recovery section, and I can opt out of ECT anytime. I'm just really ignorant at this moment and idk in my mind I just have this idea that it's on the same levels as like idk a lobotomy or something- so I just think it's a little scary.

I'll defo read up on it, there's also another patient here who's really excited to start ECT so maybe i'll talk to her too.
 
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shineboy2k15taliban

shineboy2k15taliban

I miss my homie jared
Apr 18, 2025
82
it sounds like they want to try electro shock therapy

dont recommend its almost like a lobotomy it treats your depression by wiping your memories thus making you dumber
treatment plan is designed so that friends and family dont notice a huge difference by spreading the cognitive decline out over time
 
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hang in there

hang in there

get it, har har
Apr 17, 2025
157
dont recommend its almost like a lobotomy it treats your depression by wiping your memories thus making you dumber
treatment plan is designed so that friends and family dont notice a huge difference by spreading the cognitive decline out over time
That is not how it works at all. That is dangerous misinformation and you should not spread it.
It improves cognitive ability by undoing the brain damage untreated mood disorders cause.
 
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shineboy2k15taliban

shineboy2k15taliban

I miss my homie jared
Apr 18, 2025
82
That is not how it works at all. That is dangerous misinformation and you should not spread it.
It improves cognitive ability by undoing the brain damage untreated mood disorders cause.

lol big pharma propaganda
if all psychiatrists, doctors, emergency rooms and mental health providers were required to do a baseline FMMRI before any type of mental health treatment ever begins and at every change to your meds and with the caveat every 3 months of being on a medication, you would see a lot of things change in that industry because the facts don't lie when you have a histogram of data to look at
 
hang in there

hang in there

get it, har har
Apr 17, 2025
157
lol big pharma propaganda
if all psychiatrists, doctors, emergency rooms and mental health providers were required to do a baseline FMMRI before any type of mental health treatment ever begins and at every change to your meds and with the caveat every 3 months of being on a medication, you would see a lot of things change in that industry because the facts don't lie when you have a histogram of data to look at
It's calculated risk. As doctors see it, it is the lesser evil, as with all treatments - either the patient dies or they take this treatment that might have unfortunate effects but they will live. Should they take all cancer patients out back and shoot them like dogs, or offer chemo to potentially extend their life? Doctors take an oath not to choose the more harmful option. I'm not a propagandist, I am a patient who has gone through decades of hit or miss treatment and chosen to keep trying until I get better. It doesn't all work! But I am the one who chooses to try again, because I want to feel better.
Whether that is your experience or not, you can't just spread fearmongering and outright lies just because you're afraid of the field of medicine. That's just ignorant and morally wrong.
 
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shineboy2k15taliban

shineboy2k15taliban

I miss my homie jared
Apr 18, 2025
82
It's calculated risk. As doctors see it, it is the lesser evil, as with all treatments - either the patient dies or they take this treatment that might have unfortunate effects but they will live. Should they take all cancer patients out back and shoot them like dogs, or offer chemo to potentially extend their life? Doctors take an oath not to choose the more harmful option. I'm not a propagandist, I am a patient who has gone through decades of hit or miss treatment and chosen to keep trying until I get better. It doesn't all work! But I am the one who chooses to try again, because I want to feel better.
Whether that is your experience or not, you can't just spread fearmongering and outright lies just because you're afraid of the field of medicine. That's just ignorant and morally wrong.

i appreciate you accepting that it might be harmful. im not trying to scare anyone, i just think people deserve to know whats going to happen
one again, ECT cures mental illness by wiping your memory. its only natural to expect serious side effects, including mental retardation.
 
hang in there

hang in there

get it, har har
Apr 17, 2025
157
i appreciate you accepting that it might be harmful. im not trying to scare anyone, i just think people deserve to know whats going to happen
one again, ECT cures mental illness by wiping your memory. its only natural to expect serious side effects, including mental retardation.
But factually speaking that is not how it works at all. If you have ever read the serious medical research and literature that has been scrutinized for improvement for over a century, you will find that is not what happens at all. The best book I personally own which has chapters exactly on the mechanism of action of ECT by a neurologist who performs them, is "The Fundamentals of Clinical Neuropsychiatry" by Michael Alan Taylor, a physician and researcher. He is an expert on mood and psychotic disorders as well as other diseases of the brain and central nervous system such as epilepsy and head injury and dementias. Very informative and enlightening material.
Statistically speaking the more harmful and permanently damaging option is medication. ECT is a godsend.
 
shineboy2k15taliban

shineboy2k15taliban

I miss my homie jared
Apr 18, 2025
82
But factually speaking that is not how it works at all. If you have ever read the serious medical research and literature that has been scrutinized for improvement for over a century, you will find that is not what happens at all. The best book I personally own which has chapters exactly on the mechanism of action of ECT by a neurologist who performs them, is "The Fundamentals of Clinical Neuropsychiatry" by Michael Alan Taylor, a physician and researcher. He is an expert on mood and psychotic disorders as well as other diseases of the brain and central nervous system such as epilepsy and head injury and dementias. Very informative and enlightening material.

so then what happens? its just kinda odd that you keep denying it but haven't really shared how it works, just book recommendations so far which might be half assed
 
hang in there

hang in there

get it, har har
Apr 17, 2025
157
so then what happens? its just kinda odd that you keep denying it but haven't really shared how it works, just text recommendations so far which might be half assed
I already posted how it works in another thread a little bit ago, I don't like repeating myself.
 
shineboy2k15taliban

shineboy2k15taliban

I miss my homie jared
Apr 18, 2025
82
I already posted how it works in another thread a little bit ago, I don't like repeating myself.

saying that when you have your shit on private 😂 im smellin bullshit
 
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3FailedAttemptss

3FailedAttemptss

trans girl (`・ω・´)
Jan 22, 2025
105
I'm just scared because I don't have any official diagnosis yet- just several 'strong' suspicions from my psychiatrists who suspect I'm on the autism & schizophrenia spectrum's.

So it just seems like jumping the gun a little, I don't know what's wrong with me or if medications will help me (which I would prefer).
 
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Praestat_Mori

Mori praestat, quam haec pati!
May 21, 2023
12,382
I already posted how it works in another thread a little bit ago, I don't like repeating myself.
You can just share the link to this thread (or post) of yours. You don't have to repeat yourself. I'd be interested in reports from people who actually went through this procedure and how they feel after the treatment and after a month, half year and so on. That would be the best proof if it worked for them or not and if it's worth the risks.

Personally I wouldn't do it bc it's just another experiment with an unknown outcome and possible worse side effects.
 
willitpass

willitpass

Don’t try to offer me help, I’ve tried everything
Mar 10, 2020
3,171
You can just share the link to this thread (or post) of yours. You don't have to repeat yourself. I'd be interested in reports from people who actually went through this procedure and how they feel after the treatment and after a month, half year and so on. That would be the best proof if it worked for them or not and if it's worth the risks.

Personally I wouldn't do it bc it's just another experiment with an unknown outcome and possible worse side effects.
I did ECT and it didn't do a single thing for me. I also know several people who have done it with no benefit and some have suffered long term memory issues because of it. I was young when I received it so was lucky to not have any long term effects.
ECT is the number one most effective treatment ever discovered for mood disorders. Literally no medication has ever come close to its effectiveness. After each treatment there is temporary amnesia for the day or so following up to it, but there are no permanent side effects. I think you're very very lucky to be offered it and I really hope it works for you.
I would disagree with this statement. It CAN be an effective treatment for some people, however it is not "the number one most effective". There are many people who it does not work for. And there is a risk for long term side effects. Again, it isn't guaranteed, but to say there are none is misinformation.
 
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hang in there

hang in there

get it, har har
Apr 17, 2025
157
saying that when you have your shit on private 😂 im smellin bullshit
I don't even know what that means. Do you mean my profile? you can just hover over profile pictures to get a link of all posts from a user, you know.
You can just share the link to this thread (or post) of yours. You don't have to repeat yourself. I'd be interested in reports from people who actually went through this procedure and how they feel after the treatment and after a month, half year and so on. That would be the best proof if it worked for them or not and if it's worth the risks.

Personally I wouldn't do it bc it's just another experiment with an unknown outcome and possible worse side effects.
I got interrupted as soon as I started typing, I had to click submit as soon as I finished my sentence because we got another weewoo call. Thanks dispatch. I'm back home now and can type something up that is much more in depth. First I will link the post I was referring to:
and in a little bit once I finish my enormous tome of an effortpost I will click submit. Give me a bit. I am going to explain how ECT is an effective treatment rather than the short explanation in that post about what they do to you.
 
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deadstillwalking

deadstillwalking

floating away from everyone
Apr 23, 2024
56
so then what happens? its just kinda odd that you keep denying it but haven't really shared how it works, just book recommendations so far which might be half assed
unlike you they gave you the source of their statements meanwhile you've been throwing around these batshit crazy opinions and making your ass sound illiterate. At least read the book first, man
 
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hang in there

hang in there

get it, har har
Apr 17, 2025
157
so then what happens? its just kinda odd that you keep denying it but haven't really shared how it works, just book recommendations so far which might be half assed
I am going to attempt to condense hundreds of pages worth of neuroanatomical textbooks and other such medical gobbledegook in a manner that laymen might be able to understand. I will give explanations of complex things where I can, but I will undoubtedly miss some, so if you have a question about something I've written please feel free to ask. With that preamble out of the way:


In order to understand how ECT might treat mood disorders, one must first understand what exactly a mood disorder is and what it does to the brain.
In order to do that, one must look past simple diagnostic labels which are thrown around quite hastily and carelessly in the current academic and political climate. I have already written up a long post here:
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...rder-not-a-mood-disorder.187593/#post-2969724
which goes into cursory detail about the intentional political subversion of the concept of "depression." In summary, that post explains:
>melancholia, a physical disease of the brain and nervous system, has been observed and documented since at least ancient greece
>melancholia affects the speed of bodily processes, cognition, and movement along with the internal experience of emotion and motivation
>it frequently co-occurs with mania, which can also be described in the same exact way as the previous bullet point (but rather than slowing down and a blunting of emotion, that one is a speeding up and intensity of emotion)
>there is a syndrome of stress response that normal people exhibit, which is unrelated to melancholia or mania
>that normal stress response was intentionally lumped together with melancholia under a single manufactured label of "major depression" so pharmaceutical companies could sell medications to a wider audience
>for that reason, the majority of "major depressives" do not actually have a brain disease, they instead have a normal expression of stress which has been medicalized for profit

Given all of that information, one cannot rely on mere diagnostic label annointed by current criteria – one must rely on classically defined criteria used before that enormous perversion of the medical field. And I pretty much explained it above.
Mood disorder (melancholia or mania) can be identified by the following signs:
>1. observable drastic changes in the speed of basic bodily functions, such as voluntary and involuntary movement, sleep cycle, appetite, evacuation of bowels/bladder, heart rate, temperature management, reaction time, speech, cognitive skills (things like calculating ability, ability to find words to say, planning ability, problem solving, etc), ability to feel physical pleasure, sexual activity, etc
>2. experienced emotion that is unnatural, in that it is not a regular reaction to the environment but rather an autonomous process that changes outward expression without regard to circumstance, often inappropriate and inexplicable for any given external situation
>3. an occurrence that is repetitive over the span of the patient's life, usually with the same symptoms each episode, and might be triggered by stress but is not dependent on it to come into being

Now that condensed criteria list can be applied to many states not currently recognized as "mood disorder"; to name a few:
>psychotic disorders such as the paranoid and catatonic subtypes of schizophrenia, "schizoaffective," "brief psychotic disorder" or reactive psychosis,
>some "subtypes" of depression such as postpartum, seasonal, abnormal grief states, "psychotic"
>some conditions attributed to abnormal personality such as borderline, cyclothymia, some cases of cluster A B or C "Pds"
>some forms of neurosis such as anxiety states, compulsions, excessive eating (bulimia), dissociative identity
>some cases of childhood behavioral issues such as ADHD, conduct disorders
>some cases of extreme neurological dysfunction identified as dementia or delirium
The list goes on – the main point is that the two major forms of mood disorders (melancholia and mania) can present with basically any identifiable symptom in the realm of neurology and psychiatry, temporarily. These manifestations are limited to an episode – if that episode is treated correctly, the symptoms will go away. They are not permanent and do not reflect an underlying illness besides the mood disorder.


Now I will explain how the brain of someone with mood disorder can possibly cause the 3 criteria I listed.
Over a century of research on the function and structure of brains of mood disorder patients has revealed a few commonalities in findings. I will list them:
>the HPA axis is in overdrive. That stands for Hypothalamic – Pituitary – Adrenal axis, which is the functional link between those 3 neurologic structures. The action of the hypothalamus (a section of the brain responsible for many bodily reflexes and mental processes such as temperature regulation and memory access) affects the pituitary gland (a section of the brain responsible for hormonal control and processes dependent on hormones such as hunger and growth) which affects the adrenal glands (located above the kidneys and responsible for the physical stress response aka fight or flight, along with extended stress responses mediated by cortisol). The three structures are interdependent so any activation of one will trigger activity in the others. In both melancholic and manic states, the HPA axis activity is much, much higher than in healthier individuals, and can be directly measured by testing the reaction of the body to injected stress hormones. In healthy individuals, after a few hours the level of stress hormones in the body will regulate themselves and return to a normal level. In mood disordered individuals in the midst of an episode, even after 24 hours the level of stress hormones will not have self regulated at all and will be much much higher than normally expected for that point in the circadian cycle.
>likewise, the Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Thyroid axis is dysfunctional and exhibits unique and abnormal response to externally introduced thyroid hormones. Many mood disorder patients suffer from concurrent thyroid disorders that once treated prove to not be the root cause of their mood disorder.
>certain sections of the brain responsible for the regulation of movement (such as the basal ganglia and particular areas of the frontal lobes) are dysfunctional and directly testable with specific neurocognitive assessments that reveal impairments in the initiation of movement, the ability to inhibit movement, the ability to logically structure language, the ability to experience motivation and independently control one's own activity, etc. These areas are identically dysfunctional in either mood disorder. Interestingly enough although located in the same parts of the brain, some of these impairments are mirror opposites of eachother between melancholia and mania – experiencing a stress response can trigger either a behaviorally disinhibited, overly optimistic state or a severely behaviorally inhibited, unpleasant state, each of which are the respective backbones of mania and melancholia.
>areas of the brain responsible for the production and control of emotion such as the temporal lobes, particularly the amygdala and hippocampus, and again areas of the frontal lobes, are measurably dysfunctional. These areas are often assessed not quantitatively as in the previous bullet point, but qualitatively through careful comparison to descriptions of normal and abnormal emotional function. Patients with mood disorder will have difficulty in the voluntary regulation of their emotional expression and the ability to identify emotion in people besides themselves. A simple test is standing behind the patient and speaking in different tones, asking them to identify the emotion conveyed. Memory storage and retrieval are impaired, sometimes to such an extent that the patient develops state-dependent memory – that is, they cannot remember what happened while they were in a mood episode unless they again are in another of the same type of mood episode. Mood disorder patients have no control over their fight or flight response, which can be abnormally and unnaturally frequent to an extent severe enough to be labeled an anxiety disorder. They have no say in how they will feel – if they are melancholic they will not feel a smidgen of joy in response to a happy moment, and if manic they may feel even greater elation at the prospect of enduring things they would normally find horrifying. The color of their emotions are completely independent of their circumstances.
>over time mood disorders worsen. Like the river which dug the grand canyon, the effects on the brain caused by the experience of a mood disorder are self-reinforcing. The more episodes a patient experiences, the more likely and more frequent and more severe are their episodes in the future. An illness which started with the mildest hint of melancholia will, if left untreated, steadily progress like a pendulum picking up speed and force. The effects of an unregulated bodily stress response cause frontal lobe and hippocampic degeneration that permanently worsens over time. What was initially triggered by only the most extreme and traumatic of stressful situations will over time become so sensitive as to happen after something as simple as an everyday disappointment, if there is any stressor at all. The brain, after having used the same pathways so many times, will preferentially use those same dysfunctional pathways more and more easily after each time they're used. It is quite literally a vicious cycle and it does not stop or ease on its own.


Now the reason I added that ungodly amount of background information was to hopefully more easily explain the method by which mood disorders worsen, and if that method reverses, improve. That reversal is the mechanism of ECT.
For about a hundred years parallels have been drawn between epilepsy (recurrent seizures) and mood disorder (recurrent melancholia/mania). Here are some basics of those similar points:
>they are episodic brain dysfunctions, the active symptoms of which are completely reversible by ending the episode
>although they are identified by the active periods of symptoms, there is an underlying problem of the brain which causes the episodes to occur and to recur after they're over
>with each episode the next one comes faster, harder, is more difficult to stop, is less likely to have any trigger, is longer in duration, is more physically damaging to the brain itself
>after a certain point the episodes become so damaging to the brain that new and permanent symptoms develop between episodes, reflecting the area of damage
Now it was an intersection of different observations that led to the procedure of inducing seizures electrically to treat mood disorders.
In italy it happened by accident and experimentation with different patients of different brain illnesses and different toxins which might cause seizures, that a physician discovered the psychosis of schizophrenia responded well to seizure induction. Around the same time it was noted that the psychosis or mood episodes caused by epilepsy never actually overlapped with the seizures themselves, instead each seeming to depend on the absence of the other to occur. (An interesting note, when epileptics develop psychosis in between their seizures it is treatable with ECT.) Eventually drugs which caused seizures were tested on mood disorder patients, to much success. Methods switched to electrical currents in order to better control the seizure outcome. Under anaesthesia and muscle relaxants, a single grand mal seizure is induced per session for a total of no more than 20 sessions spaced ever farther apart each time. The seizure basically "defibrillates" the neurons of the brain like an AED does to the heart during cardiac arrest. That electrical reset allows the brain to change up its accustomed dysfunctional behavior – much like the heart is "snapped out of" the abnormal rhythm which caused the arrest, the brain temporarily returns to normal healthy function and does not default to using the deeply ingrained neuronal pathways caused by the damaging recurrences of mood disorder. The effect is immediate although cumulative – the patient once awoken is so much improved they may see no further need for treatment, but if that effect is not compounded my further seizures then it will go away rather quickly. The lasting effects rely on neuroplasticity, the ability and tendency of the brain to continue to grow and prune neurons and pathways as they're used – again relying on the same mechanism that makes a mood disordered brain broken in the first place, the repeated use of the same pathway and reinforcement of it. Notably a prolonged stress response caused by HPA axis overactivity severely impairs neuroplasticity in the brain, especially the hippocampus, the area of the brain responsible for the most neurogenesis in healthy individuals. In laboratory tests, neurogenesis is greatly enhanced by the induction of seizures. Neurogenesis is helped to a lesser extent by medications such as lithium.

In conclusion, the neurotoxic process directly caused by mood disorder is halted and reversed with the induction of controlled seizures. This effect is exponentially stronger than any medication and if enough seizures are induced the positive effects are permanent, negating the risk of recurrence in the future.

Read a book some time, would you?


I will include a photograph of the books I have on hand which I referenced to jog my memory as I wrote:
 

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shineboy2k15taliban

shineboy2k15taliban

I miss my homie jared
Apr 18, 2025
82
I am going to attempt to condense hundreds of pages worth of neuroanatomical textbooks and other such medical gobbledegook in a manner that laymen might be able to understand. I will give explanations of complex things where I can, but I will undoubtedly miss some, so if you have a question about something I've written please feel free to ask. With that preamble out of the way:


In order to understand how ECT might treat mood disorders, one must first understand what exactly a mood disorder is and what it does to the brain.
In order to do that, one must look past simple diagnostic labels which are thrown around quite hastily and carelessly in the current academic and political climate. I have already written up a long post here:
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...rder-not-a-mood-disorder.187593/#post-2969724
which goes into cursory detail about the intentional political subversion of the concept of "depression." In summary, that post explains:
>melancholia, a physical disease of the brain and nervous system, has been observed and documented since at least ancient greece
>melancholia affects the speed of bodily processes, cognition, and movement along with the internal experience of emotion and motivation
>it frequently co-occurs with mania, which can also be described in the same exact way as the previous bullet point (but rather than slowing down and a blunting of emotion, that one is a speeding up and intensity of emotion)
>there is a syndrome of stress response that normal people exhibit, which is unrelated to melancholia or mania
>that normal stress response was intentionally lumped together with melancholia under a single manufactured label of "major depression" so pharmaceutical companies could sell medications to a wider audience
>for that reason, the majority of "major depressives" do not actually have a brain disease, they instead have a normal expression of stress which has been medicalized for profit

Given all of that information, one cannot rely on mere diagnostic label annointed by current criteria – one must rely on classically defined criteria used before that enormous perversion of the medical field. And I pretty much explained it above.
Mood disorder (melancholia or mania) can be identified by the following signs:
>1. observable drastic changes in the speed of basic bodily functions, such as voluntary and involuntary movement, sleep cycle, appetite, evacuation of bowels/bladder, heart rate, temperature management, reaction time, speech, cognitive skills (things like calculating ability, ability to find words to say, planning ability, problem solving, etc), ability to feel physical pleasure, sexual activity, etc
>2. experienced emotion that is unnatural, in that it is not a regular reaction to the environment but rather an autonomous process that changes outward expression without regard to circumstance, often inappropriate and inexplicable for any given external situation
>3. an occurrence that is repetitive over the span of the patient's life, usually with the same symptoms each episode, and might be triggered by stress but is not dependent on it to come into being

Now that condensed criteria list can be applied to many states not currently recognized as "mood disorder"; to name a few:
>psychotic disorders such as the paranoid and catatonic subtypes of schizophrenia, "schizoaffective," "brief psychotic disorder" or reactive psychosis,
>some "subtypes" of depression such as postpartum, seasonal, abnormal grief states, "psychotic"
>some conditions attributed to abnormal personality such as borderline, cyclothymia, some cases of cluster A B or C "Pds"
>some forms of neurosis such as anxiety states, compulsions, excessive eating (bulimia), dissociative identity
>some cases of childhood behavioral issues such as ADHD, conduct disorders
>some cases of extreme neurological dysfunction identified as dementia or delirium
The list goes on – the main point is that the two major forms of mood disorders (melancholia and mania) can present with basically any identifiable symptom in the realm of neurology and psychiatry, temporarily. These manifestations are limited to an episode – if that episode is treated correctly, the symptoms will go away. They are not permanent and do not reflect an underlying illness besides the mood disorder.


Now I will explain how the brain of someone with mood disorder can possibly cause the 3 criteria I listed.
Over a century of research on the function and structure of brains of mood disorder patients has revealed a few commonalities in findings. I will list them:
>the HPA axis is in overdrive. That stands for Hypothalamic – Pituitary – Adrenal axis, which is the functional link between those 3 neurologic structures. The action of the hypothalamus (a section of the brain responsible for many bodily reflexes and mental processes such as temperature regulation and memory access) affects the pituitary gland (a section of the brain responsible for hormonal control and processes dependent on hormones such as hunger and growth) which affects the adrenal glands (located above the kidneys and responsible for the physical stress response aka fight or flight, along with extended stress responses mediated by cortisol). The three structures are interdependent so any activation of one will trigger activity in the others. In both melancholic and manic states, the HPA axis activity is much, much higher than in healthier individuals, and can be directly measured by testing the reaction of the body to injected stress hormones. In healthy individuals, after a few hours the level of stress hormones in the body will regulate themselves and return to a normal level. In mood disordered individuals in the midst of an episode, even after 24 hours the level of stress hormones will not have self regulated at all and will be much much higher than normally expected for that point in the circadian cycle.
>likewise, the Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Thyroid axis is dysfunctional and exhibits unique and abnormal response to externally introduced thyroid hormones. Many mood disorder patients suffer from concurrent thyroid disorders that once treated prove to not be the root cause of their mood disorder.
>certain sections of the brain responsible for the regulation of movement (such as the basal ganglia and particular areas of the frontal lobes) are dysfunctional and directly testable with specific neurocognitive assessments that reveal impairments in the initiation of movement, the ability to inhibit movement, the ability to logically structure language, the ability to experience motivation and independently control one's own activity, etc. These areas are identically dysfunctional in either mood disorder. Interestingly enough although located in the same parts of the brain, some of these impairments are mirror opposites of eachother between melancholia and mania – experiencing a stress response can trigger either a behaviorally disinhibited, overly optimistic state or a severely behaviorally inhibited, unpleasant state, each of which are the respective backbones of mania and melancholia.
>areas of the brain responsible for the production and control of emotion such as the temporal lobes, particularly the amygdala and hippocampus, and again areas of the frontal lobes, are measurably dysfunctional. These areas are often assessed not quantitatively as in the previous bullet point, but qualitatively through careful comparison to descriptions of normal and abnormal emotional function. Patients with mood disorder will have difficulty in the voluntary regulation of their emotional expression and the ability to identify emotion in people besides themselves. A simple test is standing behind the patient and speaking in different tones, asking them to identify the emotion conveyed. Memory storage and retrieval are impaired, sometimes to such an extent that the patient develops state-dependent memory – that is, they cannot remember what happened while they were in a mood episode unless they again are in another of the same type of mood episode. Mood disorder patients have no control over their fight or flight response, which can be abnormally and unnaturally frequent to an extent severe enough to be labeled an anxiety disorder. They have no say in how they will feel – if they are melancholic they will not feel a smidgen of joy in response to a happy moment, and if manic they may feel even greater elation at the prospect of enduring things they would normally find horrifying. The color of their emotions are completely independent of their circumstances.
>over time mood disorders worsen. Like the river which dug the grand canyon, the effects on the brain caused by the experience of a mood disorder are self-reinforcing. The more episodes a patient experiences, the more likely and more frequent and more severe are their episodes in the future. An illness which started with the mildest hint of melancholia will, if left untreated, steadily progress like a pendulum picking up speed and force. The effects of an unregulated bodily stress response cause frontal lobe and hippocampic degeneration that permanently worsens over time. What was initially triggered by only the most extreme and traumatic of stressful situations will over time become so sensitive as to happen after something as simple as an everyday disappointment, if there is any stressor at all. The brain, after having used the same pathways so many times, will preferentially use those same dysfunctional pathways more and more easily after each time they're used. It is quite literally a vicious cycle and it does not stop or ease on its own.


Now the reason I added that ungodly amount of background information was to hopefully more easily explain the method by which mood disorders worsen, and if that method reverses, improve. That reversal is the mechanism of ECT.
For about a hundred years parallels have been drawn between epilepsy (recurrent seizures) and mood disorder (recurrent melancholia/mania). Here are some basics of those similar points:
>they are episodic brain dysfunctions, the active symptoms of which are completely reversible by ending the episode
>although they are identified by the active periods of symptoms, there is an underlying problem of the brain which causes the episodes to occur and to recur after they're over
>with each episode the next one comes faster, harder, is more difficult to stop, is less likely to have any trigger, is longer in duration, is more physically damaging to the brain itself
>after a certain point the episodes become so damaging to the brain that new and permanent symptoms develop between episodes, reflecting the area of damage
Now it was an intersection of different observations that led to the procedure of inducing seizures electrically to treat mood disorders.
In italy it happened by accident and experimentation with different patients of different brain illnesses and different toxins which might cause seizures, that a physician discovered the psychosis of schizophrenia responded well to seizure induction. Around the same time it was noted that the psychosis or mood episodes caused by epilepsy never actually overlapped with the seizures themselves, instead each seeming to depend on the absence of the other to occur. (An interesting note, when epileptics develop psychosis in between their seizures it is treatable with ECT.) Eventually drugs which caused seizures were tested on mood disorder patients, to much success. Methods switched to electrical currents in order to better control the seizure outcome. Under anaesthesia and muscle relaxants, a single grand mal seizure is induced per session for a total of no more than 20 sessions spaced ever farther apart each time. The seizure basically "defibrillates" the neurons of the brain like an AED does to the heart during cardiac arrest. That electrical reset allows the brain to change up its accustomed dysfunctional behavior – much like the heart is "snapped out of" the abnormal rhythm which caused the arrest, the brain temporarily returns to normal healthy function and does not default to using the deeply ingrained neuronal pathways caused by the damaging recurrences of mood disorder. The effect is immediate although cumulative – the patient once awoken is so much improved they may see no further need for treatment, but if that effect is not compounded my further seizures then it will go away rather quickly. The lasting effects rely on neuroplasticity, the ability and tendency of the brain to continue to grow and prune neurons and pathways as they're used – again relying on the same mechanism that makes a mood disordered brain broken in the first place, the repeated use of the same pathway and reinforcement of it. Notably a prolonged stress response caused by HPA axis overactivity severely impairs neuroplasticity in the brain, especially the hippocampus, the area of the brain responsible for the most neurogenesis in healthy individuals. In laboratory tests, neurogenesis is greatly enhanced by the induction of seizures. Neurogenesis is helped to a lesser extent by medications such as lithium.

In conclusion, the neurotoxic process directly caused by mood disorder is halted and reversed with the induction of controlled seizures. This effect is exponentially stronger than any medication and if enough seizures are induced the positive effects are permanent, negating the risk of recurrence in the future.

Read a book some time, would you?


I will include a photograph of the books I have on hand which I referenced to jog my memory as I wrote:

ight i'll admit i was kinda wrong on that, fair enough. but theres one thing we should agree on: even if ECT doesnt always cause memory loss, theres still a chance it can. a likely high one (you mentioned ECT being a controlled seizure, which is true, but my point is seizures are known to cause memory loss). and honestly, thats not the kind of risk most people would be cool with, especially when there are other treatment options out there which dont have this specific risk
 
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willitpass

willitpass

Don’t try to offer me help, I’ve tried everything
Mar 10, 2020
3,171
ight i'll admit i was kinda wrong on that, fair enough. but theres one thing we should agree on: even if ECT doesnt always cause memory loss, theres still a chance it can. a likely high one (you mentioned ECT being a controlled seizure, which is true, but my point is seizures are known to cause memory loss). and honestly, thats not the kind of risk most people would be cool with, especially when there are other treatment options out there which dont have this specific risk
Not only that, it's a risk that is being taken with a relatively decent chance of the treatment being unsuccessful. The success rates are actually correlated to the age of the patient- the older you are, the more likely it is to work due to decreased neuroplasticity. However, the older you are, the more likely you are to develop long term memory issues or other side effects because of said decrease in neuroplasticity. It's not just older people that can develop long term side effects though, I knew someone who got ECT in their early 20s and has had serious memory issues ever since and it's been almost a decade since they got it, it wasn't even successful at treating their depression either.

This is not me saying ECT cannot work. It can and does work for some people. It wouldn't continue to be used as a treatment despite all of the risks if it was useless. I just don't think it should be hailed as this almighty cure with no downsides. Because by the same token, if it was so successful, it wouldn't be such a last ditch effort after other options have failed.
 
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shineboy2k15taliban

shineboy2k15taliban

I miss my homie jared
Apr 18, 2025
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Not only that, it's a risk that is being taken with a relatively decent chance of the treatment being unsuccessful. The success rates are actually correlated to the age of the patient- the older you are, the more likely it is to work due to decreased neuroplasticity. However, the older you are, the more likely you are to develop long term memory issues or other side effects because of said decrease in neuroplasticity. It's not just older people that can develop long term side effects though, I knew someone who got ECT in their early 20s and has had serious memory issues ever since and it's been almost a decade since they got it, it wasn't even successful at treating their depression either.

This is not me saying ECT cannot work. It can and does work for some people. It wouldn't continue to be used as a treatment despite all of the risks if it was useless. I just don't think it should be hailed as this almighty cure with no downsides. Because by the same token, if it was so successful, it wouldn't be such a last ditch effort after other options have failed.

yeah, take notes mr. ECT is the number one most effective treatment ever discovered for mood disorders /hj
 
hang in there

hang in there

get it, har har
Apr 17, 2025
157
ight i'll admit i was kinda wrong on that, fair enough. but theres one thing we should agree on: even if ECT doesnt always cause memory loss, theres still a chance it can. a likely high one (you mentioned ECT being a controlled seizure, which is true, but my point is seizures are known to cause memory loss). and honestly, thats not the kind of risk most people would be cool with, especially when there are other treatment options out there which dont have this specific risk
But "memory loss" is not one monolithic entity. Retrograde amnesia (the inability to recall recent past events) fully reverses after no longer than a month, and the only real risk of lasting amnesia is anterograde, meaning the memories that would have been formed in the couple hours following the procedure. The ability to fully reverse the course and effects of a mood disorder far, far outweighs the posibility of losing memory for a few hours of laying on a bed recovering.
Not only that, it's a risk that is being taken with a relatively decent chance of the treatment being unsuccessful. The success rates are actually correlated to the age of the patient- the older you are, the more likely it is to work due to decreased neuroplasticity. However, the older you are, the more likely you are to develop long term memory issues or other side effects because of said decrease in neuroplasticity. It's not just older people that can develop long term side effects though, I knew someone who got ECT in their early 20s and has had serious memory issues ever since and it's been almost a decade since they got it, it wasn't even successful at treating their depression either.

This is not me saying ECT cannot work. It can and does work for some people. It wouldn't continue to be used as a treatment despite all of the risks if it was useless. I just don't think it should be hailed as this almighty cure with no downsides. Because by the same token, if it was so successful, it wouldn't be such a last ditch effort after other options have failed.
>by the same token, if it was so successful, it wouldn't be such a last ditch effort after other options have failed.
The only reason ECT became so reviled and so many scare tactics have come into being about it is entirely political. Antipsychiatric groups such as scientology and many christian groups lobbied their way into the medical practicioner's toolbox and completely ruined the safest treatment avaiolable for the most common severe mental illness in existence. The same exact playbook used by homosexual advocates and veterans interested in concocting the diagnostic label of PTSD. Not based in science in the slightest, dictated completely by feelings from groups with a very vested interest in staying away from mental help.


Anyway, it's always good to know every wall of text I write goes completely unread. Illiteracy is fashionable now. Freedom is slavery. I'm going to bed.
 
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willitpass

willitpass

Don’t try to offer me help, I’ve tried everything
Mar 10, 2020
3,171
>by the same token, if it was so successful, it wouldn't be such a last ditch effort after other options have failed.
The only reason ECT became so reviled and so many scare tactics have come into being about it is entirely political. Antipsychiatric groups such as scientology and many christian groups lobbied their way into the medical practicioner's toolbox and completely ruined the safest treatment avaiolable for the most common severe mental illness in existence. The same exact playbook used by homosexual advocates and veterans interested in concocting the diagnostic label of PTSD. Not based in science in the slightest, dictated completely by feelings from groups with a very vested interest in staying away from mental help.


Anyway, it's always good to know every wall of text I write goes completely unread. Illiteracy is fashionable now. Freedom is slavery. I'm going to bed.
I am speaking from first hand experience as someone who has had ECT and it did not work. And I personally know and am even friends with several others who have done ECT and it did not work. Some have long term side effects, some don't. This isn't about it being vetted against by the public, this is me telling you that outside of academic literature, there are many stories of real people who have not benefited from this treatment. It is helpful in some cases, I never disputed that. Some people do truly benefit greatly from it. But that is not the case for all people. You have to look at both sides of the coins. It is neither the enemy nor the hero. It is simply an option that can be chosen and no one knows whether it will work for them specifically or not until they have tried it.
 
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divinemistress36

divinemistress36

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I am speaking from first hand experience as someone who has had ECT and it did not work. And I personally know and am even friends with several others who have done ECT and it did not work. Some have long term side effects, some don't. This isn't about it being vetted against by the public, this is me telling you that outside of academic literature, there are many stories of real people who have not benefited from this treatment. It is helpful in some cases, I never disputed that. Some people do truly benefit greatly from it. But that is not the case for all people. You have to look at both sides of the coins. It is neither the enemy nor the hero. It is simply an option that can be chosen and no one knows whether it will work for them specifically or not until they have tried it.
I got a lot of permanent memory loss from ECT. They didnt mention that could happen they said it would be temporary
 
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hang in there

hang in there

get it, har har
Apr 17, 2025
157
I am speaking from first hand experience as someone who has had ECT and it did not work. And I personally know and am even friends with several others who have done ECT and it did not work. Some have long term side effects, some don't. This isn't about it being vetted against by the public, this is me telling you that outside of academic literature, there are many stories of real people who have not benefited from this treatment. It is helpful in some cases, I never disputed that. Some people do truly benefit greatly from it. But that is not the case for all people. You have to look at both sides of the coins. It is neither the enemy nor the hero. It is simply an option that can be chosen and no one knows whether it will work for them specifically or not until they have tried it.
Part of accurate classical diagnosis is adjusting the diagnosis based upon treatment response. For example, if lithium is tried first on what was assumed to be an idiopathic/hereditary mania, and there is no improvement, it warrants further scrutiny and investigation as it was likely a misdiagnosis. At that point the differential should be reconsidered - lookalikes with different causes are more likely at that point than true mania, sucha as the aftereffects of intoxications, infections, thyroid disturbances, etc. In the case of failed ECT the failure itself provides evidence that the initial diagnosis was faulty. As I detailed above and in the previous post I linked, any sort of "depression" diagnosis is very likely to be a misidentification simply based on statistics. Common causes of "depression" nonresponsive to ECT (the most effective treatment available for hereditary mood disorders) include unrecognized or poorly treated general medical and neurological conditions, normal stress response in a neurologically healthy individual, personality difficulties causing prolonged and abnormal reaction to ordinary life stressors, etc, etc.
If no one recognized that may be the case (if that is the case for you, I don't know what you've been diagnosed with), then it definitely warrants at least a second opinion and further testing to narrow down what is actually wrong.
As an addendum long-lasting self-reported complaints of memory disturbance after ECT infallibly show normal responses on neurologic tests and are most likely to occur in individuals with personality issues. There simply is no mechanism by which that can even take place.
 
maniac116

maniac116

My own worst enemy🌹💔
Aug 10, 2024
1,609
I worked in psych for over 20 years.
ECT may be worth a try. Its been shown to be very effective in resistant depression. Today's ECT is nothing like the old days where they shocked the hell out of the patient. I would give it a try if it was me. You're obviously very down. Why not try to feel better & you surely won't feel worse.
It may also help your case in getting out of the ward sooner if you're willing to try another treatment.
But the bottom line is that its your call.. 🤗🌹💔
 
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3FailedAttemptss

3FailedAttemptss

trans girl (`・ω・´)
Jan 22, 2025
105
I worked in psych for over 20 years.
ECT may be worth a try. Its been shown to be very effective in resistant depression. Today's ECT is nothing like the old days where they shocked the hell out of the patient. I would give it a try if it was me. You're obviously very down. Why not try to feel better & you surely won't feel worse.
It may also help your case in getting out of the ward sooner if you're willing to try another treatment.
But the bottom line is that its your call.. 🤗🌹💔
Thank you :3 this was actually really nice to read. Thank you (^з^)-☆

It's just weird though, i don't know if i'm truly depressed, i don't have any diagnosis yet and i feel like that's kinda worth exploring.
 
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