For those who believe in an afterlife / those who are spiritual

[CantDoIt]

For those who believe in an afterlife or some kind of spiritual existence after death, what do you believe is the consequence of suicide? Specifically, for example, if you don't believe in Hell. I am formulating a belief system more closely aligned with Near Death Experiences and children recounting past lives. However, I know sometimes there are reports of a higher power, or a "universal consciousness," or basically your "higher self" or something like that, being disappointed with your choice of CTB.

Do you believe that there would be punishment from "God" for CTBing for a reason that wasn't good enough in accordance with how the universe works? For example, CTBing as revenge, dissatisfaction with relationships, dissatisfaction with appearance, not having achieved your dream job / goals, etc. In opposition, things like chronic pain may be seen as a legitimate reason to CTB; or something like chronic mental conditions such as major depressive disorder, etc. (I think maybe that if you CTB you already likely have a huge amount of baggage wrt depression anyway, but you get the picture)

I know the human lifespan is basically the blink of an eye and understand that I'll be dead before I know it anyway, but I would like to check out early for what might normally be seen as superficial reasons. However, there are actually a large variety of reasons if I look at the big picture.

 

[divinemistress36]

I dont believe there is a consquence for suicide. Its just ending your soul contract early and maybe it is in some peoples soul contract to ctb? If someone ended their life impusively like cause of a break up , maybe their soul might feel bad after a life review . But mental illness/chronic illness is just slowly killing someone anyways. If we came here to learn we should be able to leave when we want

 

[CantDoIt]

I dont believe there is a consquence for suicide. Its just ending your soul contract early and maybe it is in some peoples soul contract to ctb? If someone ended their life impusively like cause of a break up , maybe their soul might feel bad after a life review . But mental illness/chronic illness is just slowly killing someone anyways. If we came here to learn we should be able to leave when we want

Yeah, I hope this is the case as well. I worried that there might be some kind of karmic debt or something like that. There are also a lot of accounts of reincarnation in which the pre-birth memory is quite unusual. For example, pre-birth memories of being a spirit, hanging around an area for weeks or months, and then following some random person home to be reincarnated as their child.

It seems like these people were never in "heaven" or the afterlife, or that they don't remember. I'm pretty satisfied that Hellish NDEs can be exited via calling for help, in addition to anything similar to the void NDEs in which you are in a dark space for "all eternity," but I worry a little bit about what gets you in there in the first place and what sort of mindset you can use to avoid being there for longer.

 

[divinemistress36]

Yeah, I hope this is the case as well. I worried that there might be some kind of karmic debt or something like that. There are also a lot of accounts of reincarnation in which the pre-birth memory is quite unusual. For example, pre-birth memories of being a spirit, hanging around an area for weeks or months, and then following some random person home to be reincarnated as their child.

It seems like these people were never in "heaven" or the afterlife, or that they don't remember. I'm pretty satisfied that Hellish NDEs can be exited via calling for help, in addition to anything similar to the void NDEs in which you are in a dark space for "all eternity," but I worry a little bit about what gets you in there in the first place and what sort of mindset you can use to avoid being there for longer.

Hellish NDEs are just a persons own fears. There are mediums on Reddit that discuss that those who ctb are at peace. Its the brain that causes suffering. Of course nobody really knows just saying what has been reported . They say when we all die something comes to help us pass over like a spirit guide or family member so maybe at first they are in some sort of void but our guides help us to cross over. I believe Hell is Earth some brutal learning realm. Just my opinion though

 

[CantDoIt]

Hellish NDEs are just a persons own fears. There are mediums on Reddit that discuss that those who ctb are at peace. Its the brain that causes suffering. Of course nobody really knows just saying what has been reported . They say when we all die something comes to help us pass over like a spirit guide or family member so maybe at first they are in some sort of void but our guides help us to cross over. I believe Hell is Earth some brutal learning realm. Just my opinion though

Yes, by most accounts it seems like individuals experience something positive regardless of why they ctb, and that even people like murderers are not punished so much as forced to watch a life review of what they did to others, probably to teach them to behave themselves.

I wonder if people who claimed to have become disincarnate spirits didn't get help simply because they didn't seek it. Specifically, in cases where people died, were separated from their bodies, and then "went in" someone to reincarnate. I worry about how that state could happen. Why did they not get invited to the alternate dimension that some people get invited to? I don't necessarily consider becoming disincarnate to be "hellish," but it's not nearly as ideal as being led to the type of afterlife that some people experience in their NDEs.

 

[Pluto]

Suicide NDEs cover a wide gamut of outcomes. Some experiences are euphoric in typical NDE fashion, some involve the void or even being stuck earthbound. For the most part, there's nothing all that bad. However, it doesn't end there.

The worst case scenario is eventually being reborn into the same lifetime. This is the position that theologian Neale Donald Walsch takes in his book Home with God. He draws a distinction to euthanasia in case of terminal illness, but does not draw a line in the sand. If I had to go back to being a child with my abusive family, without even having any memory, that truly would be hell.

It leads to yet more questions. What is to prevent a loop in which a person is born into abuse, kills themselves and is then reborn into the same abuse over and over? Eternal hell is supposed to be impossible. Or what if someone survives to, say, 50 years old and was near enough to natural death anyway? What of chronic illness? The questions are endless.

The only thing I can say is that the system does not work based on judgement, which is a Christian idea not unrelated to Santa Claus. Instead, it's all about the state that you are in and the natural outcomes of that.

Sometimes, even people who have led honest and good lives and die of natural causes get admonished because they had some underlying selfish motive. From that perspective, the very questions we are asking could be all wrong since it's still all about self-interest.

The ultimate goal is a completely egoless state. If anything more can be done to work towards that end, it is a wise course. My own quality of life is completely sub-human but this question is the only reason I'm still here.

 

[CantDoIt]

Suicide NDEs cover a wide gamut of outcomes. Some experiences are euphoric in typical NDE fashion, some involve the void or even being stuck earthbound. For the most part, there's nothing all that bad. However, it doesn't end there.

The worst case scenario is eventually being reborn into the same lifetime. This is the position that theologian Neale Donald Walsch takes in his book Home with God. He draws a distinction to euthanasia in case of terminal illness, but does not draw a line in the sand. If I had to go back to being a child with my abusive family, without even having any memory, that truly would be hell.

It leads to yet more questions. What is to prevent a loop in which a person is born into abuse, kills themselves and is then reborn into the same abuse over and over? Eternal hell is supposed to be impossible. Or what if someone survives to, say, 50 years old and was near enough to natural death anyway? What of chronic illness? The questions are endless.

The only thing I can say is that the system does not work based on judgement, which is a Christian idea not unrelated to Santa Claus. Instead, it's all about the state that you are in and the natural outcomes of that.

Sometimes, even people who have led honest and good lives and die of natural causes get admonished because they had some underlying selfish motive. From that perspective, the very questions we are asking could be all wrong since it's still all about self-interest.

The ultimate goal is a completely egoless state. If anything more can be done to work towards that end, it is a wise course. My own quality of life is completely sub-human but this question is the only reason I'm still here.

Your question about having to repeat the same life over again gets me especially. For a person who commits CTB due to their own decisions in life, reliving the same life might not necessarily be torturous. However, if that person makes the same decisions they previously made, it may lead to suicide again. In cases like these, I believe it charitable to allow that person a sense of intuition or deja vu in order to strengthen their ability to complete the life (if, in fact, the source is forgiving and reliving a life in which you make poor choices isn't the point)- however, the case of someone born into abuse differs in that no amount of deja vu or intuition would allow them to escape their situation. Personally, from what I've heard of NDEs, these people seem almost more likely to be taken to the type of heaven that NDErs describe, and then given the chance to either reincarnate or to continue in "heaven" for some time. From my understanding, though, reincarnation seems likely in all cases regardless of the state of the soul due to some type of differing personality or understanding of existence we adopt upon passing.

I think that the state you're in does effect it, which is why I want to understand how to be in a better state. Unfortunately, my reasons for ctb are mostly selfish I believe, but it also just seems impossible for me to get over my disappointments despite these disappointments being something of "wordly value." I don't have chronic illnesses but I have a number of personal grievances which I find difficult to get over and which thinking about brings me pain. I will likely have to experience the consequences of my ctb to others, but my worldly self or ego has generated a sense that that would be "worth it" in regardless of having to understand this sorrow.

I'm not sure yet how to get into an ego-less state, but the very question of my ctb has to do with things in which the ego values but the soul does not. I know the act of forgiving oneself might also be important, but ctb by its nature when not caused by disorders per say has to do with a certain lack of not forgiving oneself or others fully for some event or series of events.

Also, I worry that the idea of going into ctb with the idea of being 'rewarded' may be wrong. I cannot help but wonder, also, if those that long for eternal non-existence (something I don't believe in), may be looking for a 'reward' in the form of eternal avoidance of suffering, which may be similar or equivalent who ctb because they expect 'heaven' to be more pleasant or because they want some form do-over in the form of reincarnation.

I also wonder what causes someone to be discarnate or why some people are able to simply choose before dying to reincarnate. For example, one woman reportedly committed suicide (by intentionally getting tuberculosis, an interesting method), and said before she died that she WOULD reincarnate as a specific child of a specific family. This child remembered being that previous persona, which exhibits and extraordinary amount of control on this woman's part.

 

[lebrodude]

The worst case scenario is eventually being reborn into the same lifetime. This is the position that theologian Neale Donald Walsch takes in his book Home with God. He draws a distinction to euthanasia in case of terminal illness, but does not draw a line in the sand. If I had to go back to being a child with my abusive family, without even having any memory, that truly would be hell.

For me, that's what I'd want. If I had the free will to change the course of my life compared to this one of course.

My childhood and upbringing were both very happy times for me. I know I am fortunate in that regard. It's when I became an adult I made terrible choices.

If I was able to roll the dice again and give it another shot, I would.

 

[Ethel]

I don't think it matters thinking about karma since it's not like everyone is forced to ride on it,plus...I think being near death or dying would make you have lots of clarity of mind

 

[TragedyBornCrimson]

That's my worst one of my worst fears, being reincarnated without memory. However there is also the fact that the Christian God could be the real God, based on the fact that a lot of rich and powerful people look like they worship something demonic. The fact that evil like that is supposedly worshiped by the rich and wealthy makes me question what's the heck's actually going on. Also a guy named Jesus actually did exist and was influential enough to make the religion know as Christianity. All these factors together along with nde experiences add to the confusion. Then there's Gnosticism, which adds another layer to Christianity and it could be true or false. The truth is no one truly knows and that's terrifying.

 

[CantDoIt]

That's my worst one of my worst fears, being reincarnated without memory. However there is also the fact that the Christian God could be the real God, based on the fact that a lot of rich and powerful people look like they worship something demonic. The fact that evil like that is supposedly worshiped by the rich and wealthy makes me question what's the heck's actually going on. Also a guy named Jesus actually did exist and was influential enough to make the religion know as Christianity. All these factors together along with nde experiences add to the confusion. Then there's Gnosticism, which adds another layer to Christianity and it could be true or false. The truth is no one truly knows and that's terrifying.

Gnosticism does align more I think with the view that some people have that has to do with reincarnation being undesirable but supposedly you are in a different mindset after death which in some way makes you want to reincarnate. That could also align with gnosticism if for example you believe this action to be hostile.


NDEs I think are more reliable just because those people were at or near death at the time, and therefore have a more accurate representation of it in comparison to all things theoretical. What people expect is that someone should decay and then come back, but of course this currently isn't possible and we currently aren't able to find a way to accurately communicate with the deceased, so we can only assume people with NDE experiences are the closest to being correct.

There are also prebirth memories which may be of interest to some people here. Some of these don't involve heaven and just involve being a ghost that decides to go into an unborn child and be born.

It seems like there may be at least a small variety of possible results.

 

[divinemistress36]

I hear with reincarnation we live thousands of lives. Some good some bad, sometimes we are evil ect. And its our souls choice to come back

 

[CantDoIt]

I hear with reincarnation we live thousands of lives. Some good some bad, sometimes we are evil ect. And its our souls choice to come back

I heard this too, people even say the afterlife is great but you always choose to come back because your soul wants to eventually. In this case true enlightenment would not be possible at all...

 

[divinemistress36]

I heard this too, people even say the afterlife is great but you always choose to come back because your soul wants to eventually. In this case true enlightenment would not be possible at all...

My higher self is a dumbass

 

[toxicjester]

Im not sure if it's anything, but I don't think there's necessarily a consequence for it? For me personally, I want to come back as a baby harp seal. I guess part of me doesn't want to be dead forever, just not alive in this existence.

Dunno if that makes any sense or adds any insight tho

 

[CantDoIt]

Im not sure if it's anything, but I don't think there's necessarily a consequence for it? For me personally, I want to come back as a baby harp seal. I guess part of me doesn't want to be dead forever, just not alive in this existence.

Dunno if that makes any sense or adds any insight tho

No I get you, I think non existence means no suffering but not sure I wanna be gone but I would probably still prefer it. A fresh start sounds okay or some type of heaven.

 

[danfritz]

I heard this too, people even say the afterlife is great but you always choose to come back because your soul wants to eventually. In this case true enlightenment would not be possible at all...

Who in the hell would want to come back to this? I used to work with a woman who had a coffee cup that said "Life is Beautiful". I always thought that was so stupid

 

[toxicjester]

No I get you, I think non existence means no suffering but not sure I wanna be gone but I would probably still prefer it. A fresh start sounds okay or some type of heaven.

That's real! An end to suffering sounds nice, but I think for me personally, being a small animal and being able to enjoy life like that could potentially outweigh any suffering I might endure

But I dunno, I'm still just here as myself :,)

 

[CantDoIt]

Who in the hell would want to come back to this? I used to work with a woman who had a coffee cup that said "Life is Beautiful". I always thought that was so stupid

Right I get this, the theory is your soul feels this is all some fun video game like experience and it doesn't matter if your ego or earth self suffers because it will eventually wake up to the real world.

 

[UnnervedCompany]

One of the things that terrified me and completely removed the idea of CTBing in my mind is that in all 3 Abrahamic religions if you CTB you are thrown forever in hell. In the Abrahamic religion I believe in it is said that everyone in Hell will one day be freed from it except for some few examples and people who CTB. Even though I hope my religion is wrong because I do not believe that people who CTB deserve suffering, it is something that I cannot shake off ever in my mind.

 

[CantDoIt]

One of the things that terrified me and completely removed the idea of CTBing in my mind is that in all 3 Abrahamic religions if you CTB you are thrown forever in hell. In the Abrahamic religion I believe in it is said that everyone in Hell will one day be freed from it except for some few examples and people who CTB. Even though I hope my religion is wrong because I do not believe that people who CTB deserve suffering, it is something that I cannot shake off ever in my mind.

There are many who committed suicide and who did not experience hell or something similar, according to NDE experiences. Some did, but were rescued when they called out for help. Some children who remember past lives claimed to have committed in their previous life. I believe suicide isn't judged or punished but somehow your state of mind or being influenced your next state in some way.

 

[-nobodyknows-]

I have no idea, but I believe in a merciful God. If I do end up dying in that manner, I hope I can be forgiven. However, I do think the reason behind it will probably be relevant. Doing it to get back at someone, or to make others suffer, will probably not be seen the same way as someone who is suffering and feels like they have no way out.

 

[Pluto]

We need to understand the 2 aspects to religion.

1) A political authority controlling the masses.
2) A legitimate path towards 'overcoming the world.'

These are very, very different things. Yet both will often criticise suicide, but for completely different reasons.

1) They need taxpayers and are skilled at brainwashing the population from birth.
2) There is a legitimate path to liberation at the core of every religion, while suicide perpetuates suffering with rebirths, etc.

Obviously, we are only interested in the second option here. The topic of love comes up a lot in NDEs and can be a good starting point. I've tried writing about it before for anyone interested.

 

[PhDone]

However, I know sometimes there are reports of a higher power, or a "universal consciousness," or basically your "higher self" or something like that, being disappointed with your choice of CTB.

Interesting. Where did you read such reports?

And re the calling out for help NDE's, was this just from the afterlife movie? It had two reports of that. Or are there more stories like this?

Its amazing how much religion has so many of us in a bind about hellish experiences post ctb. I mean here we are suffering and unable to bear life, yet we are worries about leaving early. Did whoever's or whichever's God really intend for us to be in such a bind?

@divinemistress36 If we have a soul contract and stuff it up with bad decision(s), say then we have gone off track, enter illness and suffering and therefore ctb, then we've messed up the contract plan and could exit wo penalty? I have a strong sense what was meant to play out and I fucked it! Would we really write ctb into a plan? Or chronic illness? I sometimes feel like landing here, and realising we have so many bifurcation points through our lives that the chances of following a contract are so low. Granted certain things could be forces to eventuate whatever the decisions made. But one thing I have experienced since illness that i never did before, was life just no longer conspiring for things to be ok and work out. Things always seemed to somehow when i was well. Now its like Ive fallen into a void where no guidance or intervention is happening. I ask for help constantly too. Its like falling off contract and "higher self" walked off eye rolling!! ….in fact I once had a counsellor who told me higher self could leave you if you stop listening. That left me totally panicked, great counsel

I wonder if we go so low and dark that we cant access help any more. Even from ancesters and departed pets or loved ones?

Man I seriously hope they are there for me when i pass. Cant wait for some love and healing. Or peace. Or nothingness. Anything but this terror!!

 

[divinemistress36]

Interesting. Where did you read such reports?

And re the calling out for help NDE's, was this just from the afterlife movie? It had two reports of that. Or are there more stories like this?

Its amazing how much religion has so many of us in a bind about hellish experiences post ctb. I mean here we are suffering and unable to bear life, yet we are worries about leaving early. Did whoever's or whichever's God really intend for us to be in such a bind?

@divinemistress36 If we have a soul contract and stuff it up with bad decision(s), say then we have gone off track, enter illness and suffering and therefore ctb, then we've messed up the contract plan and could exit wo penalty? I have a strong sense what was meant to play out and I fucked it! Would we really write ctb into a plan? Or chronic illness? I sometimes feel like landing here, and realising we have so many bifurcation points through our lives that the chances of following a contract are so low. Granted certain things could be forces to eventuate whatever the decisions made. But one thing I have experienced since illness that i never did before, was life just no longer conspiring for things to be ok and work out. Things always seemed to somehow when i was well. Now its like Ive fallen into a void where no guidance or intervention is happening. I ask for help constantly too. Its like falling off contract and "higher self" walked off eye rolling!! ….in fact I once had a counsellor who told me higher self could leave you if you stop listening. That left me totally panicked, great counsel

I wonder if we go so low and dark that we cant access help any more. Even from ancesters and departed pets or loved ones?

Man I seriously hope they are there for me when i pass. Cant wait for some love and healing. Or peace. Or nothingness. Anything but this terror!!

They say we are all psyhic and can interact with other side but our trauma. Negativity and being jaded blocks us . The ones I know who can are all love light personality which is so not me

 

[CantDoIt]

Interesting. Where did you read such reports?

And re the calling out for help NDE's, was this just from the afterlife movie? It had two reports of that. Or are there more stories like this?

Its amazing how much religion has so many of us in a bind about hellish experiences post ctb. I mean here we are suffering and unable to bear life, yet we are worries about leaving early. Did whoever's or whichever's God really intend for us to be in such a bind?

@divinemistress36 If we have a soul contract and stuff it up with bad decision(s), say then we have gone off track, enter illness and suffering and therefore ctb, then we've messed up the contract plan and could exit wo penalty? I have a strong sense what was meant to play out and I fucked it! Would we really write ctb into a plan? Or chronic illness? I sometimes feel like landing here, and realising we have so many bifurcation points through our lives that the chances of following a contract are so low. Granted certain things could be forces to eventuate whatever the decisions made. But one thing I have experienced since illness that i never did before, was life just no longer conspiring for things to be ok and work out. Things always seemed to somehow when i was well. Now its like Ive fallen into a void where no guidance or intervention is happening. I ask for help constantly too. Its like falling off contract and "higher self" walked off eye rolling!! ….in fact I once had a counsellor who told me higher self could leave you if you stop listening. That left me totally panicked, great counsel

I wonder if we go so low and dark that we cant access help any more. Even from ancesters and departed pets or loved ones?

Man I seriously hope they are there for me when i pass. Cant wait for some love and healing. Or peace. Or nothingness. Anything but this terror!!

I read the reports on the NDE subreddit. Also, I read the hellish reports from a book called "After" by Bruce Greyson. The book contains a large number of NDE accounts.

I do think that suicide could be part of a soul contract if those are real, but maybe not. It's possible that it's simply a test not to commit suicide lol. I kind of agree with Pluto though, in that I think ctb may perpetuate the cycle of rebirth. It is said that souls who "mess up" their lives prefer to come back as soon as possible.

We need to understand the 2 aspects to religion.

1) A political authority controlling the masses.
2) A legitimate path towards 'overcoming the world.'

These are very, very different things. Yet both will often criticise suicide, but for completely different reasons.

1) They need taxpayers and are skilled at brainwashing the population from birth.
2) There is a legitimate path to liberation at the core of every religion, while suicide perpetuates suffering with rebirths, etc.

Obviously, we are only interested in the second option here. The topic of love comes up a lot in NDEs and can be a good starting point. I've tried writing about it before for anyone interested.

What if someone didn't mind being reborn but would prefer differing circumstances? Is it likely someone will be reborn in similar circumstances in order to force some type of lesson?

 

[Kali_Yuga13]

I hear with reincarnation we live thousands of lives. Some good some bad, sometimes we are evil ect. And its our souls choice to come back

I forget if it was a NDE or just a Buddhist but I remember one where they guy said we reincarnate up to 108 times like the mandala beads. I'm not sure what the requirements of getting it right are nor what the consequences if one fails though. Personally I don't subscribe to the idea of needing to "try everything once" living one life piously and another as a serial killer.

I still whish I could go back and make better decisions though in all honesty it would still require reliving some awful experiences and possibly worse outcomes. I have a nagging sense that there's some facet to life I haven't figured out.

 

[divinemistress36]

Right I get this, the theory is your soul feels this is all some fun video game like experience and it doesn't matter if your ego or earth self suffers because it will eventually wake up to the real world.

I think we are in a simulation

 

[CantDoIt]

I think we are in a simulation

Do you think it's like a computer sim or something more like invented by the universe/source as some sort of forced immersive VR?

I forget if it was a NDE or just a Buddhist but I remember one where they guy said we reincarnate up to 108 times like the mandala beads. I'm not sure what the requirements of getting it right are nor what the consequences if one fails though. Personally I don't subscribe to the idea of needing to "try everything once" living one life piously and another as a serial killer.

I still whish I could go back and make better decisions though in all honesty it would still require reliving some awful experiences and possibly worse outcomes. I have a nagging sense that there's some facet to life I haven't figured out.

I like Plutos theory that suicide isn't punished but it's a disappointment because it short circuits the path to enlightenment. So there can't be a punishment per say, but the guides or universe or God may be disappointed because of the failure to learn from the experience or "make it through" and thus your path of growth is cut short; if enlightenment is even possible.

 

[divinemistress36]

Do you think it's like a computer sim or something more like invented by the universe/source as some sort of forced immersive VR?

I like Plutos theory that suicide isn't punished but it's a disappointment because it short circuits the path to enlightenment. So there can't be a punishment per say, but the guides or universe or God may be disappointed because of the failure to learn from the experience or "make it through" and thus your path of growth is cut short; if enlightenment is even possible.

Universe VR. I agree with Pluto to but life is to painful for some of us to continue on a path of enlightenment and if we reincarnate we can work on it next time around