For those who believe in an afterlife / those who are spiritual

[CantDoIt]

Universe VR. I agree with Pluto to but life is to painful for some of us to continue on a path of enlightenment and if we reincarnate we can work on it next time around

Agree. I think maybe we are given additional tools in the next life to make it more likely we complete it.

 

[divinemistress36]

Agree. I think maybe we are given additional tools in the next life to make it more likely we complete it.

There is a channel called channeling Erik on you tube. A doctor whose son ctb started having mediums come on and interview people who have died usually famous people and the mediums talk about their soul contracts. It could be bs but its interesting to watch. Even the mediums said her sons suicide was a soul contract

 

[CantDoIt]

There is a channel called channeling Erik on you tube. A doctor whose son ctb started having mediums come on and interview people who have died usually famous people and the mediums talk about their soul contracts. It could be bs but its interesting to watch. Even the mediums said her sons suicide was a soul contract

Thanks for the rec! I read a paper in which the intent was to prove the afterlife exists, awhile back. Some mediums were shown to be extremely accurate, and about unusual things. One case noted a woman who passed away and then revealed she had a small debt that she needed to pay (to someone in a dream or some such thing). The investigator actually found the person that she did indeed owe this debt to, and the exact amount was correct. Lots of things like this.
Although I'm sure many mediums are frauds, I don't discount that real ones exist. I also don't discount that suicide could be a planned "exit point."

 

[divinemistress36]

Thanks for the rec! I read a paper in which the intent was to prove the afterlife exists, awhile back. Some mediums were shown to be extremely accurate, and about unusual things. One case noted a woman who passed away and then revealed she had a small debt that she needed to pay (to someone in a dream or some such thing). The investigator actually found the person that she did indeed owe this debt to, and the exact amount was correct. Lots of things like this.
Although I'm sure many mediums are frauds, I don't discount that real ones exist. I also don't discount that suicide could be a planned "exit point."

Science cant prove everything. Im not scared of death only the pain of dying. My friend is one there are some legit ones

 

[CantDoIt]

Science cant prove everything. Im not scared of death only the pain of dying. My friend is one there are some legit ones

The other thing is, science can't disprove much either. Just because something can be stimulated by the brain, doesn't mean that it''s not "real." A good comparison I read was , if you were having a dream; and there was a brain surgeon in your dream...say this brain surgeon did something to you, in your dream, and you woke up as a result. If you then fell back asleep, instead of staying awake, and told the dream brain surgeon that there was a real world which you woke up to, you would know this real world was THE real world but you wouldn't be able to explain to the dream brain surgeon how you knew. Consequently, he may not believe you, and disregard our world as a hallucination.

The description of NDEs as "realer than real" is part of what gives me this idea that we should trust those who have them. They can't fully explain what it feels like, but recognizing the "realness" of their current setting should not be difficult at all.

 

[lifeisbutadream]

For those who believe in an afterlife or some kind of spiritual existence after death, what do you believe is the consequence of suicide? Specifically, for example, if you don't believe in Hell. I am formulating a belief system more closely aligned with Near Death Experiences and children recounting past lives. However, I know sometimes there are reports of a higher power, or a "universal consciousness," or basically your "higher self" or something like that, being disappointed with your choice of CTB.

Do you believe that there would be punishment from "God" for CTBing for a reason that wasn't good enough in accordance with how the universe works? For example, CTBing as revenge, dissatisfaction with relationships, dissatisfaction with appearance, not having achieved your dream job / goals, etc. In opposition, things like chronic pain may be seen as a legitimate reason to CTB; or something like chronic mental conditions such as major depressive disorder, etc. (I think maybe that if you CTB you already likely have a huge amount of baggage wrt depression anyway, but you get the picture)

I know the human lifespan is basically the blink of an eye and understand that I'll be dead before I know it anyway, but I would like to check out early for what might normally be seen as superficial reasons. However, there are actually a large variety of reasons if I look at the big picture.

Have no fear. Life is but a dream. You will awaken to paradise more wonderful even than your wildest earthly ability to imagine it!

 

[isolatedl111]

For those who believe in an afterlife or some kind of spiritual existence after death, what do you believe is the consequence of suicide? Specifically, for example, if you don't believe in Hell. I am formulating a belief system more closely aligned with Near Death Experiences and children recounting past lives. However, I know sometimes there are reports of a higher power, or a "universal consciousness," or basically your "higher self" or something like that, being disappointed with your choice of CTB.

Do you believe that there would be punishment from "God" for CTBing for a reason that wasn't good enough in accordance with how the universe works? For example, CTBing as revenge, dissatisfaction with relationships, dissatisfaction with appearance, not having achieved your dream job / goals, etc. In opposition, things like chronic pain may be seen as a legitimate reason to CTB; or something like chronic mental conditions such as major depressive disorder, etc. (I think maybe that if you CTB you already likely have a huge amount of baggage wrt depression anyway, but you get the picture)

I know the human lifespan is basically the blink of an eye and understand that I'll be dead before I know it anyway, but I would like to check out early for what might normally be seen as superficial reasons. However, there are actually a large variety of reasons if I look at the big picture.

Interesting

 

[PhDone]

I think we are in a simulation

This is very like a you tube clip of Alan Watts I listened to. He said our souls know we are indestructible and just in a game basically so it learns to take more and more risks to challenge itself in the game, knowing it cant really come to any harm.

He also said that there is infinite number of possible lives to lead and eventually if we roll the dice enough we land in ourselves right now.

The more we have the convo in this thread the more I think we're not about to be thrown into nasty shit for ctb. I agree with the concept of shadows reflecting our mind and energy when we die.

I have to start practicing for the end of the video game

 

[divinemistress36]

This is very like a you tube clip of Alan Watts I listened to. He said our souls know we are indestructible and just in a game basically so it learns to take more and more risks to challenge itself in the game, knowing it cant really come to any harm.

He also said that there is infinite number of possible lives to lead and eventually if we roll the dice enough we land in ourselves right now.

The more we have the convo in this thread the more I think we're not about to be thrown into nasty shit for ctb. I agree with the concept of shadows reflecting our mind and energy when we die.

I have to start practicing for the end of the video game

Oh I will watch this

 

[CantDoIt]

This is very like a you tube clip of Alan Watts I listened to. He said our souls know we are indestructible and just in a game basically so it learns to take more and more risks to challenge itself in the game, knowing it cant really come to any harm.

He also said that there is infinite number of possible lives to lead and eventually if we roll the dice enough we land in ourselves right now.

The more we have the convo in this thread the more I think we're not about to be thrown into nasty shit for ctb. I agree with the concept of shadows reflecting our mind and energy when we die.

I have to start practicing for the end of the video game

I heard that bit by Watts! I also don't think well be thrown into nasty shit for crying but having to get in the right mindset might be hard ... As we know, being in the mindset to ctb is already being in a negative mindset. There's also the life review, where we might need to see how we've hurt other people which includes how we hurt others with our ctb. Still, there isn't any reason to be afraid as I understand it.

 

[PhDone]

I heard that bit by Watts! I also don't think well be thrown into nasty shit for crying but having to get in the right mindset might be hard ... As we know, being in the mindset to ctb is already being in a negative mindset. There's also the life review, where we might need to see how we've hurt other people which includes how we hurt others with our ctb. Still, there isn't any reason to be afraid as I understand it.

Yes the mindset thing is super hard. I feel in absolute anguish. How do we find peace when leaving because we are so in suffering? Such a dichotomy.

The life review is def a challenging thought too. I had just reached so many dawnings around who I had been being. But now sick so cant take action. Had so many plans to shift things. Too late now. By Alan Watt's thinking I'll tap out the game at level 11 and still have few more levels left. Question is will there be a next game? Will I use the same avatar? Or will I drop into an altogether different game that I have nfi how to play?

 

[CantDoIt]

Yes the mindset thing is super hard. I feel in absolute anguish. How do we find peace when leaving because we are so in suffering? Such a dichotomy.

The life review is def a challenging thought too. I had just reached so many dawnings around who I had been being. But now sick so cant take action. Had so many plans to shift things. Too late now. By Alan Watt's thinking I'll tap out the game at level 11 and still have few more levels left. Question is will there be a next game? Will I use the same avatar? Or will I drop into an altogether different game that I have nfi how to play?

I have to admit that being at peace is going to be difficult and likely impossible for me; the most likely person able to do something like that would be a person who ctbs for a 'cause,' like the Buddhist monk who self-immolated without moving an inch. An incredible task that isn't normally mirrored by people here who GENERALLY prefer to go as painlessly as possible. If someone is dealing with chronic pain, I expect the same. If someone is dealing with personal, romantic, financial, etc failures I think peace is less likely unfortunately. If it's done for revenge, I think that would not provide an ideal outcome.

I think the game that we're dropped into we will automatically know how to play, just as we somewhat knew how to play this game. I think the rules will be explained via either another life or via some kind of cosmic communication. In NDE experiences, people are simply taken and told what's going on, and in worse case scenarios they call out to others and are immediately assisted. Even in the case of being a spirit on earth, individuals have essentially reported that they just decided to follow someone home and reincarnate. However, in those cases, reincarnation may be the only option, and I think it's probably the most likely outcome of every instance. As Pluto said, no actual punishment (I'm convinced after hearing some of the arguments). The problem is that in the worst possible outcome, you're reborn as yourself. This isn't something that MANY NDEs say, but some of them certainly have been told this. If you're reborn as yourself with the inability to change key elements of your experience, it would become difficult to overcome the challenges which led you to ctb in the first place. That's why I only think it would happen in cases of personal failing and not in cases of something like parental abuse, unless your situation were very slightly altered to make it easier for you to complete the lifetime.

 

[TragedyBornCrimson]

Do you think it's like a computer sim or something more like invented by the universe/source as some sort of forced immersive VR?

I like Plutos theory that suicide isn't punished but it's a disappointment because it short circuits the path to enlightenment. So there can't be a punishment per say, but the guides or universe or God may be disappointed because of the failure to learn from the experience or "make it through" and thus your path of growth is cut short; if enlightenment is even possible.

I think I am enlightened enough, if there are spiritual guides I'd be happy to argue with them about it.

 

[PhDone]

I have to admit that being at peace is going to be difficult and likely impossible for me; the most likely person able to do something like that would be a person who ctbs for a 'cause,' like the Buddhist monk who self-immolated without moving an inch. An incredible task that isn't normally mirrored by people here who GENERALLY prefer to go as painlessly as possible. If someone is dealing with chronic pain, I expect the same. If someone is dealing with personal, romantic, financial, etc failures I think peace is less likely unfortunately. If it's done for revenge, I think that would not provide an ideal outcome.

I think the game that we're dropped into we will automatically know how to play, just as we somewhat knew how to play this game. I think the rules will be explained via either another life or via some kind of cosmic communication. In NDE experiences, people are simply taken and told what's going on, and in worse case scenarios they call out to others and are immediately assisted. Even in the case of being a spirit on earth, individuals have essentially reported that they just decided to follow someone home and reincarnate. However, in those cases, reincarnation may be the only option, and I think it's probably the most likely outcome of every instance. As Pluto said, no actual punishment (I'm convinced after hearing some of the arguments). The problem is that in the worst possible outcome, you're reborn as yourself. This isn't something that MANY NDEs say, but some of them certainly have been told this. If you're reborn as yourself with the inability to change key elements of your experience, it would become difficult to overcome the challenges which led you to ctb in the first place. That's why I only think it would happen in cases of personal failing and not in cases of something like parental abuse, unless your situation were very slightly altered to make it easier for you to complete the lifetime.

This is all so damn fascinating, thanks for the convo and thoughts. Can you link me to the best of Pluto's arguments around no punishment?

I agree re monks but also that I do think if we have arrived at ctb with no other option and just so in suffering here then we have the opportunity to at least be at peace with the decision if not the act itself. I abs believe some of us are at the end of our tether and are so considered in this and the suffering we are in that we will be held and healed.

Its so interesting that we could come back as us. I know exactly where to start with not landing myself here!

The two dark NDE stories I saw asked for help too and were taken up immediately out the scary shit. Thats unreal that its a common element. I guess relieving for people worried about whats next. I think we are basically good people. We are in torture, it doesnt seem right that we would face darkness just 'because'. If there is anger or resentment or ill intent, maybe different story.

 

[tbh2023]

I dont believe there is a consquence for suicide. Its just ending your soul contract early and maybe it is in some peoples soul contract to ctb? If someone ended their life impusively like cause of a break up , maybe their soul might feel bad after a life review . But mental illness/chronic illness is just slowly killing someone anyways. If we came here to learn we should be able to leave when we want

I double that.

 

[CantDoIt]

This is all so damn fascinating, thanks for the convo and thoughts. Can you link me to the best of Pluto's arguments around no punishment?

I agree re monks but also that I do think if we have arrived at ctb with no other option and just so in suffering here then we have the opportunity to at least be at peace with the decision if not the act itself. I abs believe some of us are at the end of our tether and are so considered in this and the suffering we are in that we will be held and healed.

Its so interesting that we could come back as us. I know exactly where to start with not landing myself here!

The two dark NDE stories I saw asked for help too and were taken up immediately out the scary shit. Thats unreal that its a common element. I guess relieving for people worried about whats next. I think we are basically good people. We are in torture, it doesnt seem right that we would face darkness just 'because'. If there is anger or resentment or ill intent, maybe different story.

Hey! I don't actually know how to link to specific posts, but @Pluto said a lot of great things in this thread about the idea of 'punishment' for a specific form of death; in this case, suicide. They also linked to some additional posts about it they've made in other locations (check page 1 of this thread).

I have no idea what conditions cause us to come back as ourselves, but yeah it's crazy. I don't know how much intention has to do with it. Earlier, I recounted the story of a woman who committed suicide. On her deathbed, she said she would be reincarnated as the daughter of another family. The Daughter did indeed remember being this person. The reason she committed suicide was because her father would not allow her to marry a specific person. So why was she granted the ability to reincarnated under these specific circumstances exactly as predicted? What allows this for some ctbers, and for others their reincarnation is seemingly-random or they are reincarnated as themselves? I can only guess as to the cause.

I read some additional hellish experiences. These people were 'shown' a sort of hell, but were never actually involved in the perceived suffering. In one NDE, someone called it hell and was told by a guide that it wasn't in fact 'hell as they knew it,' and they shouldn't call it that. I think to some extent that these people put themselves there because of a specific state at death and didn't think to call for help. Some NDE havers are actually told this explicitly - that those who end up in a hell realm self-constructed this realm and that they need only to ask for assistance in order to be rescued; this also includes "endless dark void:" The idea that someone could end up in eternal darkness as only a consciousness, which would obviously be horrible.

 

[yariousvamp]

For those who believe in an afterlife or some kind of spiritual existence after death, what do you believe is the consequence of suicide? Specifically, for example, if you don't believe in Hell. I am formulating a belief system more closely aligned with Near Death Experiences and children recounting past lives. However, I know sometimes there are reports of a higher power, or a "universal consciousness," or basically your "higher self" or something like that, being disappointed with your choice of CTB.

Do you believe that there would be punishment from "God" for CTBing for a reason that wasn't good enough in accordance with how the universe works? For example, CTBing as revenge, dissatisfaction with relationships, dissatisfaction with appearance, not having achieved your dream job / goals, etc. In opposition, things like chronic pain may be seen as a legitimate reason to CTB; or something like chronic mental conditions such as major depressive disorder, etc. (I think maybe that if you CTB you already likely have a huge amount of baggage wrt depression anyway, but you get the picture)

I know the human lifespan is basically the blink of an eye and understand that I'll be dead before I know it anyway, but I would like to check out early for what might normally be seen as superficial reasons. However, there are actually a large variety of reasons if I look at the big picture.

I don't have a specific religion. I believe if you die you simply reincarnate in a different life/world/universe etc.

 

[CantDoIt]

I don't have a specific religion. I believe if you die you simply reincarnate in a different life/world/universe etc.

Do you think it's random or do you choose? Or are you assigned based on some kind of trait you had in this life?

 

[kitkat9234]

I have a fear of the unknown. One of the few things keeping me here. I don't want to go somewhere that could be worse. If that's even possible. Worried about hell and what that looks like.

 

[Hotsackage]

Ya this is something, I'm philosophically trying to compute, it's a wierd one. All I know, is if your miserable and you've tried a lot of w.e to cope/improve your quality of life, and cant. Then ya, I can see why people would choose a way out.

 

[CantDoIt]

I have a fear of the unknown. One of the few things keeping me here. I don't want to go somewhere that could be worse. If that's even possible. Worried about hell and what that looks like.

Yes, I noticed that some people get taken to un-ideal places after death and that worries me a lot. I imagine the state of the individual determines it and that they can be rescued, but I think it would be best not to end up there in the first place. The problem is that when we ctb we are not in an ideal state and could 'project' a scary location.

 

[Leiot]

The Buddha was asked about reincarnation, past lives; that sort of thing. He wouldn't give them an answer. Finally someone cornered him (I guess) and demanded an answer. He replied that we don't know if reincarnation exists so the only life we have to do anything about is this one, so why worry about it. I don't think that went over well at all.

I'd like to think there's.. something to it, but it's just hope.

I wonder sometimes if it's this life that's gone to shit or my soul itself is flawed, or whatever you'd call it. If I was reincarnated would that person screw up as much as I have? I'd hope not; I hope I'd have a chance to add a little happiness to the world.

It's hard to focus on this life when there's so much negativity in the world, not to mention in our lives. Part of me hopes something magical will happen that will make the pain go away but part of me knows it's not likely. But the teachings tell us to keep trying to make things better. It hurts and I want to give up but there's a little spark in me that says I can try to undo some of the damage I've done.

 

[PhDone]

Yes, I noticed that some people get taken to un-ideal places after death and that worries me a lot. I imagine the state of the individual determines it and that they can be rescued, but I think it would be best not to end up there in the first place. The problem is that when we ctb we are not in an ideal state and could 'project' a scary location.

Thats a fair point…for some of us, chronic mental or physical illness for example, we have little choice but to be in the state we are in, no options for healing and succumbing to the anguish of that. I often think about what state I would be in if I waited out a natural death, exhausted of the anguish and torment. What state of mind does that put me in at death? Day after day of hell for years? I honestly dont know whats worse, facing a ctb or facing years ahead.

The ultimate goal is a completely egoless state. If anything more can be done to work towards that end, it is a wise course. My own quality of life is completely sub-human but this question is the only reason I'm still here.

So you are concerned enough about 'negative' possible outcomes to not ctb? What if staying here, over years or decades of being in a sub-human life situation creates worsening trauma and therefore ego state or anguish?

…and thanks for your wisdom, love reading your answers

 

[Pluto]

So you are concerned enough about 'negative' possible outcomes to not ctb? What if staying here, over years or decades of being in a sub-human life situation creates worsening trauma and therefore ego state or anguish?

…and thanks for your wisdom, love reading your answers

That's a great question. There's also the angle of lives that cause harm to others, thus making CTB altruistic.

The best advice I can give is to treat this as dealing with the laws of physics rather than interacting with a judgemental parent-god. If someone jumps off a wall and hurts themselves, the only culprit is an interaction between natural laws (gravity, etc.) and the choices of the individual. It's no different when it comes to being in a higher vibration at death and moving on to higher planes. Someone once used the analogy of a pebble machine that uses a series of sieves to sort rocks by size, with only the finest stones passing right through.

By emphasising the broader context of reincarnation, Buddhism dramatically lightens life. Purported tragedies like an unlucky turn of events, early death, accidents or unfinished business are all resolved by offering a multitude of attempts. This also implies universal salvation, in contrast to the extreme drama associated with certain religious ideas about this lifetime leading to some singular eternal heaven or hell state in the afterlife. Hopefully it's clear by now that this is a hoax and defies everything we can clearly around us about life having a cyclical nature.

This still leave us with the question of what to do with this lifetime.

As far as practical solutions, there are many schools of thought which have worked for some people but not others. People who attain advanced nondual states cease being troubled even by physical pain, since the accompanying ego-self is already dead. Others find illnesses to be manifestations of unresolved emotional issues or are transformed by some other healing breakthrough.

If all else fails, as it has for me thus far, what I am doing is aiming to discard as much baggage as possible, regardless of when and how this lifetime is going to end; anger, judgement, resentment, desires, etc. There should not be a further accumulation of trouble if wise choices are being made from this point forth.

For a variety of further perspectives, this video is worth a watch:

 

[CantDoIt]

That's a great question. There's also the angle of lives that cause harm to others, thus making CTB altruistic.

The best advice I can give is to treat this as dealing with the laws of physics rather than interacting with a judgemental parent-god. If someone jumps off a wall and hurts themselves, the only culprit is an interaction between natural laws (gravity, etc.) and the choices of the individual. It's no different when it comes to being in a higher vibration at death and moving on to higher planes. Someone once used the analogy of a pebble machine that uses a series of sieves to sort rocks by size, with only the finest stones passing right through.

By emphasising the broader context of reincarnation, Buddhism dramatically lightens life. Purported tragedies like an unlucky turn of events, early death, accidents or unfinished business are all resolved by offering a multitude of attempts. This also implies universal salvation, in contrast to the extreme drama associated with certain religious ideas about this lifetime leading to some singular eternal heaven or hell state in the afterlife. Hopefully it's clear by now that this is a hoax and defies everything we can clearly around us about life having a cyclical nature.

This still leave us with the question of what to do with this lifetime.

As far as practical solutions, there are many schools of thought which have worked for some people but not others. People who attain advanced nondual states cease being troubled even by physical pain, since the accompanying ego-self is already dead. Others find illnesses to be manifestations of unresolved emotional issues or are transformed by some other healing breakthrough.

If all else fails, as it has for me thus far, what I am doing is aiming to discard as much baggage as possible, regardless of when and how this lifetime is going to end; anger, judgement, resentment, desires, etc. There should not be a further accumulation of trouble if wise choices are being made from this point forth.

For a variety of further perspectives, this video is worth a watch:

Hmm..the reason that I'm planning on ctb is because of a lot of resentment towards myself and my past decisions. As well as anger. I know it's bad to have these feelings even for myself but I don't know how to cast them aside or what would result because of them.

 

[PhDone]

That's a great question. There's also the angle of lives that cause harm to others, thus making CTB altruistic.

The best advice I can give is to treat this as dealing with the laws of physics rather than interacting with a judgemental parent-god. If someone jumps off a wall and hurts themselves, the only culprit is an interaction between natural laws (gravity, etc.) and the choices of the individual. It's no different when it comes to being in a higher vibration at death and moving on to higher planes. Someone once used the analogy of a pebble machine that uses a series of sieves to sort rocks by size, with only the finest stones passing right through.

By emphasising the broader context of reincarnation, Buddhism dramatically lightens life. Purported tragedies like an unlucky turn of events, early death, accidents or unfinished business are all resolved by offering a multitude of attempts. This also implies universal salvation, in contrast to the extreme drama associated with certain religious ideas about this lifetime leading to some singular eternal heaven or hell state in the afterlife. Hopefully it's clear by now that this is a hoax and defies everything we can clearly around us about life having a cyclical nature.

This still leave us with the question of what to do with this lifetime.

As far as practical solutions, there are many schools of thought which have worked for some people but not others. People who attain advanced nondual states cease being troubled even by physical pain, since the accompanying ego-self is already dead. Others find illnesses to be manifestations of unresolved emotional issues or are transformed by some other healing breakthrough.

If all else fails, as it has for me thus far, what I am doing is aiming to discard as much baggage as possible, regardless of when and how this lifetime is going to end; anger, judgement, resentment, desires, etc. There should not be a further accumulation of trouble if wise choices are being made from this point forth.

For a variety of further perspectives, this video is worth a watch:

Its an interesting one re altruism and the impacts of us on others when we consider non-duality, entanglement, complex systems theory, and even Jungian shared consciousness model. Its hard to assert a directional cause and effect without distinguishing individual responsibility. I think of late I've been landing on being a focal point of the energies expanding and collapsing in response to my patterns and behaviours. Meaning 'I' am a projection of those vibrational waves and my life and experiences are their focus. If there is a free will that I am exerting then yes my ctb will impact others. However, what led me to ctb included others influence on me. And am I really choosing to die? Are people who make poor dietary choices, or dont exercise when well informed, or overindulge in alcohol, or work, are they bringing about their deaths? My dad was killed in an RTA, unquestionably made a poor decision that led to it. I guess we are all making decisions that affect others all the time.

Re the pebbles analogy, this makes good sense. Challenge to me is having fallen chronically ill I have little choice but to be in a low vibrational state from here. So does that one unfortunate circumstance now mean I have no chance to be a lighter stone? I think illness is some degree our fault, but I dont believe the degree of suffering is in correlation. But the remainder of my natural lifetime would be compromised for possibility of contributing to enlightenment. My torture and torment would be continuing to decline me towards heavier pebbles. So then my spiritual life and afterlife, and maybe future lives, become impeded by illness too. Which would somehow lead to a better option being get out and try again?! Cut your losses so to speak. The years remaining have more likelihood of suffering and not being a positive soul overall, so it little trade off wrt the impact of a shorter life but with ctb.

I totally agree re the cyclical nature of existence. Linearity, binary models and Sunday school models of life and death are more of man's attempts to simplify and assert control. Nature doesnt work like man thinks it does.

Thanks again for another awesome response.


Just want to share another couple of comments around dying when it is 'our time', 'not shortcutting' or 'not being permitted exit til you fulfil your purpose'. Most people assume your purpose is this passion thing that you feel connected to your deepest calling. Now we dont know if thats true, but we do know that life can take twists and turns way outside of what we were working towards. We never truly know how our life will go. We cant know we have a soul mate we will inevitably connect with for example, because we may never choose to go to the country they are in, or may take a different job than the one that would cross their path. I have thought down the years life would conspire to bring things and people intended in our path a different way. But in my illness I have been shown sometimes that could be impossible. So we cant have things set like this. Hence a purpose that must be fulfilled. I had a particular decision I made that led me to getting ill. If we are being lived then yes maybe the alternative decision could never have been. But I doubt we have no ability, conscious or otherwise to impact fate and future. So I cant imagine we have this set purpose thats attached to a life path. Maybe if we dont fulfil something we need to we'd have to come back again, but then could the world still be in the same context where my purpose has the same relevance? Maybe cyclically it could be. But it still makes it hard to believe we simply cannot ctb, wont be allowed or whatever.

There are infinite possible life paths. Each one takes us a different way and every decision leads to a different end. So what is our 'natural' end? Maybe ctb in the current life path IS the end that plays out? Maybe we can be called at a certain time, but I cant imagine it can be planned or when a purpose is fulfilled. I think life, if there is any purpose, is about growth, experiencing and contributing. There is a point in illness that these can end. So then our purpose is automatically done. But we may not die naturally. I cant figure why not. Existing simply in a torture we have no choice to escape from. I do still understand of course the component of hurting others still exists. But if total pain, not individual pain, is examined there is still a question of one person adding to total pain by staying, whilst maybe there is less but a greater distribution of it, with ctb.

So are we individuals, or truly non-dual?

 

[4everHeartBroken]

"A political authority controlling the masses."

You nailed it.

"The ones I know who can are all love light personality which is so not me"

Same. "Love & Light" people who refer to themselves as "Enlightened" is just another (modern-fad-type) religion in my opinion. Cringe.

 

[Pluto]

Hmm..the reason that I'm planning on ctb is because of a lot of resentment towards myself and my past decisions. As well as anger. I know it's bad to have these feelings even for myself but I don't know how to cast them aside or what would result because of them.

I understand.

The key to any sort of emotion work is being brutally honest. Things tend to unfold in layers. A made-up example: anger towards self might be hiding anger at a parent, which in turn covers a deep existential feeling of shame and ultimately a wounded inner child. The burden is lifted if all that can be worked through, in one lifetime or another. As for the how, that's a bit of a can of worms. Angelo Dilullo has given an interview on the topic.

However, what led me to ctb included others influence on me. And am I really choosing to die?

This is a very profound philosophical question. In Buddhism, it is known as dependent origination. No thing exists independent of everything else. If the true identity is revealed, it is said that we completely transcend the whole thing. I once made an extensive post quoting some real-world examples from the Zen tradition. The key is that this is not intellectual, and the goal is not to bypass dealing with the ego-self using a belief that the ego isn't real. This very simple topic gives rise to to extensive teachings only because there are so many traps like this that can waste people's time.

Challenge to me is having fallen chronically ill I have little choice but to be in a low vibrational state from here.

I understand what you are saying and often face the same question myself. I can only quote others. It is a slippery topic; some people can get triggered by the points made and it's easy to misinterpret what is said. However, the claim is often made in spiritual circles that the state of the individual is not correlated to their physical circumstances.

Eckhart Tolle once told a story from a time when he was in university. He held the door open for a man in a wheelchair. The man was in a dreadful state, his head rolled to the side and his body was slumped in paralysis. But as their eyes made contact, he saw that the man's eyes were surrendered and he was at peace with himself. Years later, Eckhart was surprised to see that same man in a magazine; his name was Steven Hawking and he had become one of the most renowned physicists in the world.

(I could give many other examples but it's a whole discussion in itself.)

I have thought down the years life would conspire to bring things and people intended in our path a different way. But in my illness I have been shown sometimes that could be impossible.

Free will is another whole topic in itself, and viewpoints cover a wide spectrum. People who have a complete non-dual understanding completely deny free will because there is no self to possess it. Yet this lofty perspective can be confusing and unhelpful for so-called normal people who need to 'choose' a practical pathway to reach that same understanding for themselves.

Another generic teaching is that we get better results when we are not over-analysing, and life is able to conspire in our favour if we get out of the way. Accessing intuition, which is the deeper intelligence beyond the power virus of the frustrated thinking mind. Again, examples are often cited about people, including scientific researchers, having breakthroughs during meditation.

(If you watch it carefully, you'll find that the mind is always thrashing around in a circle of misery, trying to solve its problem, a feeling of deep frustration, never noticing that it is actually causing that very problem.)

So are we individuals, or truly non-dual?

This is the ultimate question, but the answer needs to take the form of a revelation along the lines of the aforementioned Zen examples.

 

[CantDoIt]

I understand.

The key to any sort of emotion work is being brutally honest. Things tend to unfold in layers. A made-up example: anger towards self might be hiding anger at a parent, which in turn covers a deep existential feeling of shame and ultimately a wounded inner child. The burden is lifted if all that can be worked through, in one lifetime or another. As for the how, that's a bit of a can of worms. Angelo Dilullo has given an interview on the topic.


This is a very profound philosophical question. In Buddhism, it is known as dependent origination. No thing exists independent of everything else. If the true identity is revealed, it is said that we completely transcend the whole thing. I once made an extensive post quoting some real-world examples from the Zen tradition. The key is that this is not intellectual, and the goal is not to bypass dealing with the ego-self using a belief that the ego isn't real. This very simple topic gives rise to to extensive teachings only because there are so many traps like this that can waste people's time.


I understand what you are saying and often face the same question myself. I can only quote others. It is a slippery topic; some people can get triggered by the points made and it's easy to misinterpret what is said. However, the claim is often made in spiritual circles that the state of the individual is not correlated to their physical circumstances.

Eckhart Tolle once told a story from a time when he was in university. He held the door open for a man in a wheelchair. The man was in a dreadful state, his head rolled to the side and his body was slumped in paralysis. But as their eyes made contact, he saw that the man's eyes were surrendered and he was at peace with himself. Years later, Eckhart was surprised to see that same man in a magazine; his name was Steven Hawking and he had become one of the most renowned physicists in the world.

(I could give many other examples but it's a whole discussion in itself.)

Free will is another whole topic in itself, and viewpoints cover a wide spectrum. People who have a complete non-dual understanding completely deny free will because there is no self to possess it. Yet this lofty perspective can be confusing and unhelpful for so-called normal people who need to 'choose' a practical pathway to reach that same understanding for themselves.

Another generic teaching is that we get better results when we are not over-analysing, and life is able to conspire in our favour if we get out of the way. Accessing intuition, which is the deeper intelligence beyond the power virus of the frustrated thinking mind. Again, examples are often cited about people, including scientific researchers, having breakthroughs during meditation.

(If you watch it carefully, you'll find that the mind is always thrashing around in a circle of misery, trying to solve its problem, a feeling of deep frustration, never noticing that it is actually causing that very problem.)

This is the ultimate question, but the answer needs to take the form of a revelation along the lines of the aforementioned Zen examples.

What do you believe causes reincarnation into the same life?

 

[Pluto]

What do you believe causes reincarnation into the same life?

Some sources say that it is possible to return to the same life without starting from birth. When people try but 'fail' to CTB, they might have actually succeeded but been sent back to that same moment, in an alternative timeline, with no memory of the afterlife. This is a far less punishing prospect than having to go back and re-live all the abuse from start. A third possibility is starting a different lifetime but facing similar challenges, which is really not desirable.

What overwhelmingly matters for this discussion is the broader narrative beyond the oh-so-familiar story of this one lifetime. While it is unclear for most people what is going on in the bigger picture, the absence of past-life memories is clearly by design, and does not address the question of whether this lifetime is 1) a situation forcibly imposed by a higher power or 2) a game played voluntarily. The notion of actually choosing this lifetime is a common NDE claim, and would obviously huge implications.

What is fairly clear from my research:
1) Death is not that big a deal and everyone will be fine... eventually.
2) Death of the body is not an end, so it is still wise to think of one's post-lifetime future.