If you're not vegan, what prevents you from being one?

[wildflowers1996]

No. Ik it sounds bad, probably because it is to have such a blinkered view of just - like meat… eat meat… ignore suffering, but I'm just not that bothered at the end of the day. Me not eating meat won't collapse the industry and I'm not saving any animal but not eating meat, they will die anyway/they are already penned in to get eaten anyway. I'll still eat meat :/

I'm not bothered lol, they are right at the end of the day and I'll admit that.

it won't collapse the industry. I still think if everyone who felt insignificant and like they can't make a difference gave up animal products, a huge difference would be made. Everyone who goes vegan and does some activism can create a ripple effect

 

[Chinaski]

I'm not pious or claiming to be morally better than anyone. I'm not. I've done some really crappy things

I'm sure you're not, and I'm sure you have, in that order - dw

 

[WildAtHeart]

That wasn't aggressive (lol?)

Idk

l don't know you or give a fuck for your feelings

Like idc if you don't give a shit, don't expect you or anyone to care remotely, I'm talking about veganism ffs lol, It's more so it was a simple misinterpretation. I don't want to argue especially in a place like this. Again sorry for misunderstanding what you said lol, be safe

 

[wildflowers1996]

That wasn't aggressive (lol?)


I know this, again you're right, but you're probably in the wrong place if you're seeking persuade by way of hammering home the suffering of an animal. Firstly, nobody here gives a fuck for anyone but thenselves, this is the most obnoxiously selfish quarter of the internet, secondly any position you wish to state will not be enhanced by an argument which suggests those you seek to convince are doing a *bad* thing. I mean to be constructive with the latter point jsyk.

are people here selfish? Suffering a lot yes, but I'm not sure about selfish. I've spoken to quite a lot of compassionate people here. With the second point - how would you suggest someone could be better convinced, then? How can I improve my activism? I've not said to anyone that I think that *they* are bad, or that I'm morally superior to them (I am not). I'm saying that I think they perhaps lack awareness of just how awful what happens to animals is - the same way I did before.

 

[WildAtHeart]

it won't collapse the industry. I still think if everyone who felt insignificant and like they can't make a difference gave up animal products, a huge difference would be made. Everyone who goes vegan and does some activism can create a ripple effect

I understand that, and I do agree.

 

[Chinaski]

are people here selfish? Suffering a lot yes, but I'm not sure about selfish. I've spoken to quite a lot of compassionate people here.

They're all bullshitting

 

[wildflowers1996]

They're all bullshitting

do you think all compassion is fake? or just people's here?
I don't claim for a minute to be a good person, but I do think I have SOME genuine compassion. Not enough. I'm still selfish. But I know I genuinely hate it when I see an animal suffering. Lots of people here (myself included) haven't ctb even though we want to because we care about our families' feelings. Surely that means something?

 

[BoulderSoWhat]

Yes I eat meat. No I don't like the idea of killing animals just for food. Am I a contradictory inconsistent human being? Yes and I'll probably be one until I die. That being said, I would prefer for further advances in science to just grow the meat. We know how to mess around with atoms and molecules, we can make burgers without killing cows. Hell, then the race is on for companies to make the cheapest tastiest lab grown burgers according to consumers.

Lab-engineered cow cells could slash the cost of cultured meat

Engineered cells that make the substances they need to grow could dramatically reduce the cost of cultivating lab-grown meat

www.newscientist.com

 

[Chinaski]

do you think all compassion is fake? or just people's here?
I don't claim for a minute to be a good person, but I do think I have SOME genuine compassion. Not enough. I'm still selfish. But I know I genuinely hate it when I see an animal suffering. Lots of people here (myself included) haven't ctb even though we want to because we care about our families' feelings. Surely that means something?

I think people generally have compassion but here it's displayed so enthusiastically upon entry, it's bullshit, phoney, false, also nobody here gives a fuck about other people, you won't remember this crap in a year and why the hell would you, l won't either

 

[wildflowers1996]

Yes I eat meat. No I don't like the idea of killing animals just for food. Am I a contradictory inconsistent human being? Yes and I'll probably be one until I die. That being said, I would prefer for further advances in science to just grow the meat. We know how to mess around with atoms and molecules, we can make burgers without killing cows. Hell, then the race is on for companies to make the cheapest tastiest lab grown burgers according to consumers.

Lab-engineered cow cells could slash the cost of cultured meat

Engineered cells that make the substances they need to grow could dramatically reduce the cost of cultivating lab-grown meat

www.newscientist.com

you don't have to be contradictory and inconsistent - lots of people say they could never go vegan, and do

I think people generally have compassion but here it's displayed so enthusiastically upon entry, it's bullshit, phoney, false, also nobody here gives a fuck about other people, you won't remember this crap in a year and why the hell would you, l won't either

I DO care. I wish I could take away people's suffering here. I don't want anyone, person or animal to suffer, but I feel overwhelmed and powerless. If I had a magic wand to make everyone here's pain go away, of course I would use it, but I don't. What can I do? I want to help but I don't have any answers myself. I'm just in the same boat as everyone else.

 

[Chinaski]

I DO care. I wish I could take away people's suffering here. I don't want anyone, person or animal to suffer, but I feel overwhelmed and powerless. If I had a magic wand to make everyone here's pain go away, of course I would use it, but I don't. What can I do? I want to help but I don't have any answers myself. I'm just in the same boat as everyone else.

That's honest and gritty and grainy and l believe you but this place is also awash with "omgggggg same" phoned-in empathy bullshit and it's unwise to think there is a greater degree of compassion here than there is in yoir local bar

 

[wildflowers1996]

That's honest and gritty and grainy and l believe you but this place is also awash with "omgggggg same" phoned-in empathy bullshit and it's unwise to think there is a greater degree of compassion here than there is in yoir local bar

I don't know. Maybe I'm too naive or maybe you're generalizing. I guess I thought that people here might be MORE likely to listen re veganism. Because I often find people who have suffered a lot have more empathy - not because they're more moral than anyone else but because they've learnt what it's like to suffer and so don't want that for others. But the downside is I think so many people here are just drained emotionally so things like going plant based seem overwhelming so I don't know. I thought I'd try. I've seen other people go vegan because of online activism. Though if anyone here takes any notice of me I'll probably never know because it's not usually something that happens overnight. Unless people watch something like Earthlings which has been known to make people go vegan overnight

 

[BoulderSoWhat]

you don't have to be contradictory and inconsistent - lots of people say they could never go vegan, and do

Its definitely possible. Who knows, I'm still alive on this planet when I thought I wouldn't be by now haha, we'll see what happens, surprises happen I guess :)

 

[Chinaski]

I don't know. Maybe I'm too naive or maybe you're generalizing. I guess I thought that people here might be MORE likely to listen re veganism. Because I often find people who have suffered a lot have more empathy - not because they're more moral than anyone else but because they've learnt what it's like to suffer and so don't want that for others. But the downside is I think so many people here are just drained emotionally so things like going plant based seem overwhelming so I don't know. I thought I'd try. I've seen other people go vegan because of online activism. Though if anyone here takes any notice of me I'll probably never know because it's not usually something that happens overnight. Unless people watch something like Earthlings which has been known to make people go vegan overnight

There is no more empathy here than there is in your nearest jailhouse. There are good people here, but those who give the hugs vibes are not to be trusted, each one a phoney.

 

[WhiteRabbit]

I don't know. Maybe I'm too naive or maybe you're generalizing. I guess I thought that people here might be MORE likely to listen re veganism. Because I often find people who have suffered a lot have more empathy - not because they're more moral than anyone else but because they've learnt what it's like to suffer and so don't want that for others. But the downside is I think so many people here are just drained emotionally so things like going plant based seem overwhelming so I don't know. I thought I'd try. I've seen other people go vegan because of online activism. Though if anyone here takes any notice of me I'll probably never know because it's not usually something that happens overnight. Unless people watch something like Earthlings which has been known to make people go vegan overnight

Honestly, a lot of people here barely leave their rooms. Going vegan takes willpower and cooking know-how. People here are just trying to make it though the day.

Your heart is in the right place though.

 

[Deleted member 8119]

do you think that if everyone who had the mindset "I'm one person, I can't make a difference" went vegan, that would make a difference?
also, even if you can't stop *all* animals suffering, is it not worth it to help individual animals?

Dude, inform yourself. Do you know how expensive is to farm without animal products? A huge part of all of it would need to composting costing so much. It's not just manure: bone meals, blood meals, guano, etc, that help to grow it. Meanwhile the crops don't usually go to the animals, it's mostly forage and very low quality grains that don't benefit us.

Couple this with the fact there isn't enough fertile land. Only a part of all it can be cropped and the percentage is not enough to sustain +8 billion people.

What you want is IM-POS-SI-BLE. Physically, it CAN'T be done.

And BTW, what @EvisceratedJester means is probably that, animal will always be used for the above reasons. You literally contribute nothing. Calling for better welfare is the way to go.

That's honest and gritty and grainy and l believe you but this place is also awash with "omgggggg same" phoned-in empathy bullshit and it's unwise to think there is a greater degree of compassion here than there is in yoir local bar

Are you genuinely OK?

 

[pyx]

I wonder if you would care more if you saw the footage of what happens to animals

that's not going to ameliorate my defective sense of justice. porn and gore have completely pruned all empathic feelings in me.

this doesn't apply directly to me, but i doubt that the suicidal can afford to cave in to saccharine moral sentiment; and this is all well and good, introducing no problems, aside from perhaps introducing a suffering index in order to satiate one's own incurious pawning off of their indigent moralism. "i suffer just as much, and yet i can afford to stay true to what i believe to be right."

if i am to die, what utility does moralism hold for me, aside from demonstrating that i can thoroughly convince myself of my own goodness and hence the injustice of the world around me? i don't care enough for that. i am a contrarian through and through, and i detest all forms of moralism which tries to parade itself as some consistent framework. i have seen the moral majority turn their noses up at those who have fallen through the cracks; those individuals who were the subject of popular impugning and contempt; if they can demonstrate that they are good people by clinging to the nearest and most readily available position of moral equity, then it doesn't matter whether or not they cower in the face of injustice through their lapped ethical posturing, or meet the other with utter indifference. this is why i am always skeptical of people who parrot humanitarian ideals. it's impossible to be entirely faithful to the desire to be good, and good itself is a cheap indicator for social value, only serving to corral favor and support to further their own aims

 

[ForgottenAgain]

For me, the reason I don't pursue a vegan diet is because of the following:
- I come from a culture that has amazing cuisine using whole foods and I enjoy that heritage
- Vegan food is very expensive
- Vegan food doesn't taste good
- Vegan food, if you look at the ingredients, is a combination of a lot of manufactured components
- If you want to be vegan you then need to compensate with supplements and that's just more money to get the vitamins you would get if you followed a regular diet
- Humans are omnivores and I don't believe suddenly changing that will be good for my health given that humans have been like that since the dawn of humanity
- I'm not in favour of animals being tortured but I don't think me becoming a vegan will change that
- I've always been a moderate person and believe that the best result is somewhere in the middle and being vegan is not in the middle
- If we all become vegan then we are just changing who suffers - doesn't plants suffering matter too?

Based on the above, I don't see good reasons to become a vegan. I think the issue of animals being tortured needlessly should be tackled with legislation, not by changing the diet of a species without knowing the consequences of that. There are enough health problems as is, I don't need to make my life harder and risk unknown health issues by being a vegan.

I do have a lot of respect for the people who are vegan, especially for the sake of the animals, I think it is very noble, I just don't think it will have the effect vegans think it will have. I also hope they don't develop issues, I've seen several that later found out they had nutrient deficiency or other problems and that made them question the vegan diet.

 

[We Are Angels]

I get migranes and feel terrible when I eat too many carbs. So it's a mostly protien and fat based diet for me.

 

[avoid]

I wonder if you knew more about the reality of how animals are treated, if you'd feel differently

I think you made the false assumption that I'm misinformed about the current practices in animal husbandry. I'm aware of common slaughterhouse practices, some of which are forbidden by law, and poor animal welfare to the extent one can be made aware by watching documentaries and reading news articles about animal mistreatment scandals. A particularly memorable documentary is Dominion—words cannot describe the cruelty. I'm also aware of the impact animal husbandry has in the environment.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

maybe you're not any more selfish than the average person, maybe you're suffering and overwhelmed? I think you would care more if you watched something like "Earthlings", yes :(

I appreciate it's difficult when people around you encourage eating meat/ it's seen as a part of your culture/ religion - although (I may be wrong) as far as I am aware, there is nothing in Islam saying you HAVE to eat meat

idk - has positive change never happened in society then? not that slavery doesn't still exist, but arguably it doesn't exist on the same level that it used to - because people campaigned against it

I don't think I have any more empathy or kindness than you or anyone here. I just (I feel like this comes across patronising when I don't mean it to at all) think I've thought about this particular topic more than the average person has, maybe. I grew up vegetarian, not realising the intense suffering the dairy/egg industry causes, and then I learnt about what really happens to animals, and knowing what I know now, having seen disturbing, awful, footage - I just can't contribute to it any more. I am definitely flawed in many, many many other ways.

Sorry for the late reply as SS never gave me a notification on this. You're right, I haven't watched earthlings or any footage of what happens in slaughterhouses (though the fact that it's literally named slaughterhouses probably gives an idea as to what happens). I did want to watch more about the suffering that happens in the world, both to humans and animals, but I've recently just been extremely overwhelmed with my own suffering to where I don't have the energy to see how others suffer.

Well, technically there isn't anything in islam saying that you have to eat meat but there is a day once a year where you have to kill an animal in the name of islam. I've been to pakistan on eid in the past and there are so many cows, sheep, goats, camels etc everywhere as they're all are going to be slaughtered in the name of religion. Being a muslim automatically means being anti vegan due to this. Also, I am highly dependent on the food that my mum cooks which is why I can't be a vegan. My neurotype is extremely flawed to where I can't be independent or cook meals on my own meaning that the only way I can contribute to veganism is via... suicide.

I guess positive change has happened but that's only because the majority cared about it. I don't believe that veganism or the right to die would ever be fully implemented in society because most people care about themselves and the responses you got in this thread is massive, massive proof of that. Even suicidal people here who are considered to be more empathetic compared to most humans still don't have any empathy towards animals that aren't domestic.

Nah, you definitely have more kindness here than most people. A lot of people on here aren't kind even if they are suicidal. You're one of the few kind people on this site. Even if others here see the footage that you saw, they wouldn't care at all. They just wouldn't. It sucks immensely

 

[DarkRange55]

I'm not a fan of factory farmed meat.

I'm curious about exploring hunting. Hunting for me is something that I've always just been curious about. I've been kind of drawn to that intuitively as something that feels like as a human being I need to explore. I know hunters sometimes get a bad rep because people think of hunting as trophy hunting, as killing animals needlessly. I see it as something we used to do as hunter-gatherers. I see people use it to control animal populations in areas of America that have to be controlled. And maybe it's something we do as humans and maybe it's something that is natural. I also think its something we must do carnally and I kind of want to explore whats happening. I know people that only hunt elk and they only eat the elk meat that they kill for their families. I find that to be a really interesting potentially sustainable, potentially non-carbon footprint way of being able to eat meat and maybe eat the right kind of meat and do it in a way thats ethical and okay. But I've also heard it's an incredible way to really connect with the environment. Hunters can actually be some of the people that treat the environment better than most people in the world and I think there's a deep connection here that a lot of people aren't seeing. Also if the animal is slain quickly and painlessly at an appropriate age and the parts are used appropriately then its better than it getting a broken leg and or getting sick and slowly dying at an older age or being attacked by a pack of wolves or a bear.

I ate a strict plant-based diet for a year. Not even honey. Vegan can mean you don't wear leather and animal rights and this stuff. The term just has some much baggage. Plant-based just means you only eat plants.

 

[ConfusedClouds]

I fit with the nutritional side of things. Yes you can get all essential nutrients from a vegan diet (particularly thinking the full range of protein amino acids), but it requires a lot more planning/understanding/coordination OR fortified foods which are ultra processed, which negates any health benefit arguments.

I agree that hunting is something that could be explored much more in rural areas. Especially if there are culls related to overpopulation of particular animals anyway.

I think a lot could be said for people eating more of the animals/using the FULL animal. Not just the prime steak cuts or plump breast fillets. If more people ate liver (for example), there's less wastage and fewer animals required to be bred.

But corporate doesn't care. Which makes consuming harder to balance 'ethically'.

 

[FujoshiNeet]

My culture. There is no way I could replicate the dishes of my childhood without meat. I will try to minimize damage and buy plant based when I can tho.

 

[Deleted member 8119]

may I ask what your source for this is?

Wow I'm late.

There are many studies on the effects of veganism in health. Did you know veganism can cause poor fetal outcomes too?

Here was what I meant specifically.

Respondents who indicated they began to experience at least one of the conditions were asked if it improved after they started eating meat.
82% of these respondents indicated that some or all of the conditions improved when they reintroduced meat. The most typical timeframes
for improvement were: within 2–6 days (20%), within 1–3 weeks (33%), and within 1–3 months (22%).

There is near a 20% chance you will never recover. Defending a diet that can do this is insane to me.

BTW for all non-vegan try doing a food tour for Western Europe, specially the different foods of the zones of Spain, truly unforgettable.

 

[Fvck_Society1337]

not intending this to come across in a critical way, I know it's hard to convey tone over text. But I am a vegan and I find it hard to understand why others aren't. I know not everyone can eat 100% plant based but for those who can, and can avoid animal products, I'm curious as to why they don't

Basic biology

 

[Privateer2368]

I see absolutely no compelling reason to become one.

I see no moral or ethical differences between killing plants, animals or fungi. I do not believe that animals alone suffer when they are killed.

Something must die for me to live, so what difference does it make whether it has cell walls or not?

Why should I give up what I like to ease the consciences of others?

Even the pollution and factory farming arguments don't work because my meat is local and the farming methods that vegans frequently refer to online are mostly an American thing and are illegal here.

 

[Hvergelmir]

not intending this to come across in a critical way, I know it's hard to convey tone over text. But I am a vegan and I find it hard to understand why others aren't. I know not everyone can eat 100% plant based but for those who can, and can avoid animal products, I'm curious as to why they don't

My reasons are laziness and incompetence.
I've settled for a compromise, consuming milk products and eggs. It's very low effort and avoids the worst of moral implications.
Even a small amount of milk and eggs nullifies most concerns about nutrient deficiencies, when combined with an otherwise vegan diet.

Just to dispel some myths: My diet is very cheap and quite lazy. I have very little interest in food or cooking. The diet consists mainly of pasta, bread, and fried vegetables.
I also do regular blood tests for another ailment, and cholesterol, vitamin-levels, etc, are all very good after 15 years.

Respondents who indicated they began to experience at least one of the conditions were asked if it improved after they started eating meat.
82% of these respondents indicated that some or all of the conditions improved when they reintroduced meat. The most typical timeframes
for improvement were: within 2–6 days (20%), within 1–3 weeks (33%), and within 1–3 months (22%).

There is near a 20% chance you will never recover. Defending a diet that can do this is insane to me.

Your conclusion is wrong.

What the study says is that some people (?%) start experiencing unwanted conditions after cutting meat from their diet.
When this group reintroduced meat to their diet, 82% seemed to improve within 3 months.

What about the other 18%?
They might "recover" after the study window. Their conditions might also not have been related to their diet, at all.

How many never experienced any adverse effects in the first place?
I guess a large majority, but we don't know.

The conclusion should be, that if you feel worse after changing your diet, you'll likely feel better going back to what you ate before.
It does not say that 20% of vegans are damaged beyond recovery.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

 

[CatLvr]

I get migranes and feel terrible when I eat too many carbs. So it's a mostly protien and fat based diet for me.

Same here. While I still have chronic pain issues, and brutal headaches (migraines that morph into cluster headaches, rinse, repeat, in cycles bleh) cutting out all carbs but except cruciferous veggies and eating high fat/moderate protein/VERY low carb has changed my life.