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Warlord's Pulse

Warlord's Pulse

Time to end this endless war
May 27, 2024
232

Can be somewhat useful, albeit quite naive about taking full control over our lives as that impossible, however, the criticism over "past obsessive" therapies are valid
 
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fedup1982

Arcanist
Jul 17, 2025
431
Nice find but I cant get out of the understanding that the universe is deterministic and so free will is an illusion. And AFAIK its known that at least group behaviour of people is very predictable?
 
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Warlord's Pulse

Warlord's Pulse

Time to end this endless war
May 27, 2024
232
Nice find but I cant get out of the understanding that the universe is deterministic and so free will is an illusion. And AFAIK its known that at least group behaviour of people is very predictable?
It has much more to do about math than psychology, honestly; group behaviour is more predictable simply because the more sample you have, the more consistent it will be to the expectancy.

And about free will, you don't necessarily need "determinism" to invalidate free will, you just need to consider the true force of things that are outside of our control (sheer randonness, our biology/genetic, upbringing, sociocultural context etc)
I would argue that, regardless of free will really existing or not, we have to try and act as it's real
 
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Cosmophobic

Cosmophobic

Student
Aug 10, 2025
186
I would argue that, regardless of free will really existing or not, we have to try and act as it's real
I think we should try to act as if it's not. Free will always feels real in immediate experience so it requires no effort for us to act as if it's real. Remembering that the universe and consequently everything in it is deterministic requires conscious effort.

I think a species that operates under the assumption that it's free to shape its own destiny is less cautious, more vengeful and judgemental and less willing to understand. The feeling that we are free to as we choose would be under no danger of disappearing if we collectively decided to accept a determinstic view of the universe and ourselves. It's not a scary prospect. We'd still feel ourselves to be freely choosing things. We'd just retain the insight that in a mechanical universe we should try to be kinder, less punitive and more understanding.
 
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fedup1982

Arcanist
Jul 17, 2025
431
I think we should try to act as if it's not. Free will always feels real in immediate experience so it requires no effort for us to act as if it's real. Remembering that the universe and consequently everything in it is deterministic requires conscious effort.

I think a species that operates under the assumption that it's free to shape its own destiny is less cautious, more vengeful and judgemental and less willing to understand. The feeling that we are free to as we choose would be under no danger of disappearing if we collectively decided to accept a determinstic view of the universe and ourselves. It's not a scary prospect. We'd still feel ourselves to be freely choosing things. We'd just retain the insight that in a mechanical universe we should try to be kinder, less punitive and more understanding.
You hit the nail on the head for me. Being kinder, more understanding, less punitive are traits that will make the difference between a dystopia or society collapsing and having a utopia.
 
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