Help MEDICAL AID IN DYING - DDMP and DDMA - Challenged with DIY version - Your Help Needed

[007Bob]

We would like DIY versions of DDMA/DDMP to work, as the last thing we want is for it to fail and wake up damaged from the attempt. So please share your knowledge and advice with us.


Questions to the SS Community:
—————————————————-
#1] Overall problem: in the official MAiD protocol, the lethal drug mixture is made by a compounding pharmacy, so it's just the raw powder versions of each medication, therefore much less volume versus crushing pills.
=> Doing it as a DIY method means crushing tablets of each medication and in tablet version there are fillers and binders added to the raw powdered medication, hence will result in a much larger volume of overall powder when crushing tablets into the required dosages of the actual medication required. Doesn't necessarily mean it won't work, but the result of DIY version means much more overall powder.
#2] MAiD Protocol asks for 100mg Digitalis powder. Only Digoxin pills can be obtained. To make it equivalent to 100mg Digitalis powder, over 300 pills need to be crushed into powder. It's a lot of powder (almost half of cup). Is this going to be a problem with regurgitation and vomiting (note that antiemetic drugs will be taken 1 h prior to ending-of-life cocktail)
#3] What do you think of the 30 minutes gap between Digoxin and the other meds? Should we still follow that recommendation or not? The reason given is that the tiny bits of Digitalis (100mg) otherwise get lost in the larger volume of the other meds (>20g) and don't get well absorbed. Here the problem is that in the DIY version, we are using Digoxin pills (>20g of small concentrations of 0.25mg) and that makes up a lot of inactive powder. What's your views on this problem? Comment: taking 30 minutes before the other meds may be advisable, especially as we are using crushed Digoxin tablets and not Digitalis powder. Likely to absorb better and also much less overall powder to consume all in one go.
#4] MAiD Protocol asks for instant Morphine. Only Slow Release (SR) capsules can be obtained. SR Morphine presents as 200mg of gel coated microbeads to slow release in the gut. You can somehow break down the gel by crushing the microbeads into fine powder. But the gel will be embedded in the powder and the gel will take some volume in the stomach. Do you think it's a problem and how to get around?
#5] Because the instant release Morphine is impossible to get ahold of, we are left with using SR Morphine. The bioavailability of Morphine is only 30% by the gut (it's much higher by intravenous injection but we can't do that). What's your views on this problem? How do you think powderized SR Morphine will work in the DIY version?
#6] It's advisable not to mix Propanolol with Amitripyline. The two medications work differently, one slows down the heart (Propranolol) and the other speeds it up (Amitriptyline), hence using both may be counter productive. Probably best using one or the other, but not both together. Do you agree? What do you think?

____ MAiD = Medical Aid in Dying ___
SUMMARY OF MAiD PROTOCOLS
(Least Pain and Max Speed to Death)

Anti-Nausea Drugs
(1 hour prior to end-of-life mixture)
- Haloperidol 2mg
- Metoclopramide 20mg

END-OF-LIFE MIXTURES

DDMP: Digoxin 50 mg, Diazepam 1 gm, Morphine 15 gm, Propranolol 2 gm.
Time to death: 2h (average) to 39h (max)
D-DMP2: As above, but digoxin is given separately, 30 minutes before the other medications.
Time to death: 1.5h to 13h
DDMA: Digoxin 100 mg, Diazepam 1 gm, Morphine 15 gm, Amitriptyline 8 gm.
Time to death: 1.5h to 12.5h
D-DMA: As above, but digoxin is given separately, 30 minutes before the other medications.
Time to death: 1.5h to 4h
DDMAPh: Digoxin 100 mg, Diazepam 1 gm, Morphine 15 gm, Amitriptyline 8gm, Phenobarbital 5 gm.
Time to death: 1.1h to 5.1h
D-DMAPh: As above, but digoxin is given separately, 30 minutes before the other medications.
Time to death: 1.1h to 3.8h

DDMP2 vs D-DMP2: The dash in D-DMP2 signifies a pause of 30 minutes between giving
the digitalis and the morphine/diazepam/propranolol. The reason is that without giving digitalis separately, the tiny amount of digitalis
(100 milligrams) gets lost amid the huge mass of the other meds (18,000 milligrams)—and the digitalis doesn't get absorbed. By using pre-digitalis, i.e. dig alone for
30 minutes, the dig is rapidly absorbed—providing more rapid and thorough digitalis toxicity.

Additional ressources:
- https://www.acamaid.org/wp-content/...on-Protocols-for-Medical-Aid-in-Dying-1-1.pdf
- https://www.acamaid.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/12-5-19-DDMA-instead-of-DDMP2.pdf
- https://endoflifewa.org/wp-content/...r-Taking-Life-Ending-Medications-Jan-2020.pdf
In the pharmacy compounded version, I believe they use crushed pills as well except from the Digitalis powder because it mentioned in one of the MAiD to use Digitalis powder and not crushed pills. Plus I also read that the MAiD as qualified as blue-whale mixture in reference to the amount of powder that needs to be ingested. That being said, we don't have access to Digitalis powder and need to replace it with Digoxin pills. That equates to over 300 pills and take a huge volume for a fetal mixture (half a cup of powder). In comparison, when powderized the remaining pills (diazepam, morphine and propanolol) only fill 1/4 of a cup. So we are dealing with a large volume of powder to be ingested. The risk of vomiting and regurgitation is lowered of course by taking strong antiemetics prior to the end-of-life cocktail. Nonetheless, with D-DMP/A protocols, we are required to actually drink 2 mixtures: first a mixture of Digoxin pills and 30 minutes later, a second mixture of the remaining drugs. Hence, we need very powerful antiemetics to control vomiting and regurgitation. The official MAiD protocol asks for 2ml haloperidol and 20mg metroclopramide: but will this be sufficient for the DYI version? I read in one SN protocol on SS to start taking antiemetics 2 days before SN. Would that make sense? Note that the antiemetics are Neurolpetics and they make you feel down. There is no perfect solution but I am trying to find something that would be acceptable and that would increase the chances of the DYI version to work. It's just a shame we don't have access to a doctor or a pharmacist to help us with these vital questions. I do believe that it's a fundamental right to end one's life when we are no longer able to enjoy life.

 

[rotciv]

How do you think about compounding all these substances without a medical prescription?

 

[007Bob]

How do you think about compounding all these substances without a medical prescription?

I already have all the meds.

 

[rotciv]

I already have all the meds.

And how to consume all the amount of pills full of excipients?

 

[Myrmecia]

A very good Thread and many Questions.

I have the most tablets for the DDMAPh or D-DMAPh.
They are the fastest methods.
I prefer this method it´s faster and sucessful as the SN Method.

Here my resources, i have not all tablets, but i hope the rest received in the next 2 - 3 Weeks.
Buyed in Clear Web and DN.

Here my medications and how many i need for the D-DMAPh or DDMAPh.

Digoxin (0,25 mg)..................400
Diazepam (100mg) .............. 100
Morphin (200mg).....................75 (blue pills and hard, but i can crushed it with my mortar)
Amitriptylin (25mg)...............320
Luminal (100 mg).....................50 (Luminal is Phenobarbital)
945 Pills

I found information for dissolved midications in water.
Water temperature: Generally use room temperature water, unless another temperature is explicitly recommended. Warm water can speed up the dissolution, but it should not be hot.
Mixing: Add the crushed powder to a glass of water. Stir the mixture thoroughly until the tablet is completely dissolved.

I have not found anything of this medications in powder, only in tablets.
All medications can have nausea as side-effect, that´s a problem.

I mean, it´s not possible to drinking all this.
The lethal doses of Digoxin is 10mg, i think 30 - 40mg are enough.

A other problem is to dissolve all this pills, i think this is more than 130 - 140 grams of powder when all crushed.
How many water are needed for this to make it drinkable? 500 ml - 1 Liter water or more?

And how to consume all the amount of pills full of excipients?

Drinking.
But yes dissolved this all in water and than all drinking is the biggest problem.

I don´t know, but i think it´s better to take more morphin + oxycodon tablets.

The 1 g Diazepam is not necessary i think, it´s not a lethal dose.
Amitriptylin have a lethal dose of 750mg - 1500mg. Than i think 4g are enough.

 

[007Bob]

And how to consume all the amount of pills full of excipients?

With warm vodka. Indeed, the use of hard liquor is recommended by MAiD protocols. Why warm? Mainly to dissolve the gel-like coating on the Morphine SR with come in gel-coated micro beads after you empty the capsules. A preliminary step is to powderize the micro beads using a coffee grinder.

And how to consume all the amount of pills full of excipients?

A very good Thread and many Questions.

I have the most tablets for the DDMAPh or D-DMAPh.
They are the fastest methods.
I prefer this method it´s faster and sucessful as the SN Method.

Here my resources, i have not all tablets, but i hope the rest received in the next 2 - 3 Weeks.
Buyed in Clear Web and DN.

Here my medications and how many i need for the D-DMAPh or DDMAPh.

Digoxin (0,25 mg)..................400
Diazepam (100mg) .............. 100
Morphin (200mg).....................75 (blue pills and hard, but i can crushed it with my mortar)
Amitriptylin (25mg)...............320
Luminal (100 mg).....................50 (Luminal is Phenobarbital)
945 Pills

I found information for dissolved midications in water.
Water temperature: Generally use room temperature water, unless another temperature is explicitly recommended. Warm water can speed up the dissolution, but it should not be hot.
Mixing: Add the crushed powder to a glass of water. Stir the mixture thoroughly until the tablet is completely dissolved.

I have not found anything of this medications in powder, only in tablets.
All medications can have nausea as side-effect, that´s a problem.

I mean, it´s not possible to drinking all this.
The lethal doses of Digoxin is 10mg, i think 30 - 40mg are enough.

A other problem is to dissolve all this pills, i think this is more than 130 - 140 grams of powder when all crushed.
How many water are needed for this to make it drinkable? 500 ml - 1 Liter water or more?

Drinking.
But yes dissolved this all in water and than all drinking is the biggest problem.

I don´t know, but i think it´s better to take more morphin + oxycodon tablets.

The 1 g Diazepam is not necessary i think, it´s not a lethal dose.
Amitriptylin have a lethal dose of 750mg - 1500mg. Than i think 4g are enough.

According to my research and theory, you should dissolve the mixture (especially the 2nd mixture with Morphine SR) with warm vodka. This is because Morphine SR comes as a capsule containing gel-like micro-beads. The original MAiD formula asks for instant release morphine but it's impossible to get. To get around the SR, FYI the gel melts at higher temperature (ideally at 80ºC but may be too hot for swallowing the mixture).

 

[Esokabat]

I appreciate the investigative mindset and research that went into this. I think this is an interesting topic. My main concern would be how the body would react to drink/ digest so much pill filling material. It is a shame that we cannot access to the core ingredients and forced to digest hundreds of pill fillers like rice powder, binders, granulating agent. I would definitely not recommend this method to someone with low stomach acid, you need good digestive power to absorb all this properly.
The amount of tablet filling material makes this method unconfirmed for me but certainly worth the research

 

[Myrmecia]

there are further problems.

1. can the tablets be pulverized and stored 1-2 days in advance? Or will they lose their effect.

2. how long does it take for the medication to dissolve in water?

 

[007Bob]

there are further problems.

1. can the tablets be pulverized and stored 1-2 days in advance? Or will they lose their effect.

2. how long does it take for the medication to dissolve in water?

Good question
1. I believe the tablets can be pulverized and stored for a period of 6 months but TBC
2. I don't know how long the medication takes to dissolve in water. Probably faster in warm temperature than room temperature and probably faster in liquor than in water.
=> anybody would like to share their thoughts on this question? Thank you

The lethal doses of Digoxin is 10mg, i think 30 - 40mg are enoug

The lethal doses are lower than what the protocol asks for. The much higher doses are here to ensure a quick death. The original DDMP protocol required "only"50mg of Digoxin. It was later changed to D-DMP: the dosage of Digoxin increased to 100mg and there was a pause of 30 minutes introduced between the ingestion of Digoxin and the other medications. This way the body could absorb the Digoxin first and then the sedatives were introduced.

there are further problems.

1. can the tablets be pulverized and stored 1-2 days in advance? Or will they lose their effect.

2. how long does it take for the medication to dissolve in water?

I read in one MAiD protocol that the drugs, once compounded, can be stored in a dark glass jar but have to be consumed fast because the shelf-life is undetermined.
=> Source: https://www.endoflifewa.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Preparations-for-the-Last-Day-Feb-2020.pdf

 

[Euthanza]

I think the precise answers only come from lab, I wish we're on the same city so we can collaborate further.
You know the science stuff: perform the experiment and document the result, perhaps we'll get legitimate review.

 

[007Bob]

I think the precise answers only come from lab, I wish we're on the same city so we can collaborate further.
You know the science stuff: perform the experiment and document the result, perhaps we'll get legitimate review.

Do you think the DYI protocol is feasible? What other remaining issues do you see?

We would like DIY versions of DDMA/DDMP to work, as the last thing we want is for it to fail and wake up damaged from the attempt. So please share your knowledge and advice with us.


Questions to the SS Community:
—————————————————-
#1] Overall problem: in the official MAiD protocol, the lethal drug mixture is made by a compounding pharmacy, so it's just the raw powder versions of each medication, therefore much less volume versus crushing pills.
=> Doing it as a DIY method means crushing tablets of each medication and in tablet version there are fillers and binders added to the raw powdered medication, hence will result in a much larger volume of overall powder when crushing tablets into the required dosages of the actual medication required. Doesn't necessarily mean it won't work, but the result of DIY version means much more overall powder.
#2] MAiD Protocol asks for 100mg Digitalis powder. Only Digoxin pills can be obtained. To make it equivalent to 100mg Digitalis powder, over 300 pills need to be crushed into powder. It's a lot of powder (almost half of cup). Is this going to be a problem with regurgitation and vomiting (note that antiemetic drugs will be taken 1 h prior to ending-of-life cocktail)
#3] What do you think of the 30 minutes gap between Digoxin and the other meds? Should we still follow that recommendation or not? The reason given is that the tiny bits of Digitalis (100mg) otherwise get lost in the larger volume of the other meds (>20g) and don't get well absorbed. Here the problem is that in the DIY version, we are using Digoxin pills (>20g of small concentrations of 0.25mg) and that makes up a lot of inactive powder. What's your views on this problem? Comment: taking 30 minutes before the other meds may be advisable, especially as we are using crushed Digoxin tablets and not Digitalis powder. Likely to absorb better and also much less overall powder to consume all in one go.
#4] MAiD Protocol asks for instant Morphine. Only Slow Release (SR) capsules can be obtained. SR Morphine presents as 200mg of gel coated microbeads to slow release in the gut. You can somehow break down the gel by crushing the microbeads into fine powder. But the gel will be embedded in the powder and the gel will take some volume in the stomach. Do you think it's a problem and how to get around?
#5] Because the instant release Morphine is impossible to get ahold of, we are left with using SR Morphine. The bioavailability of Morphine is only 30% by the gut (it's much higher by intravenous injection but we can't do that). What's your views on this problem? How do you think powderized SR Morphine will work in the DIY version?
#6] It's advisable not to mix Propanolol with Amitripyline. The two medications work differently, one slows down the heart (Propranolol) and the other speeds it up (Amitriptyline), hence using both may be counter productive. Probably best using one or the other, but not both together. Do you agree? What do you think?

____ MAiD = Medical Aid in Dying ___
SUMMARY OF MAiD PROTOCOLS
(Least Pain and Max Speed to Death)

Anti-Nausea Drugs
(1 hour prior to end-of-life mixture)
- Haloperidol 2mg
- Metoclopramide 20mg

END-OF-LIFE MIXTURES

DDMP: Digoxin 50 mg, Diazepam 1 gm, Morphine 15 gm, Propranolol 2 gm.
Time to death: 2h (average) to 39h (max)
D-DMP2: As above, but digoxin is given separately, 30 minutes before the other medications.
Time to death: 1.5h to 13h
DDMA: Digoxin 100 mg, Diazepam 1 gm, Morphine 15 gm, Amitriptyline 8 gm.
Time to death: 1.5h to 12.5h
D-DMA: As above, but digoxin is given separately, 30 minutes before the other medications.
Time to death: 1.5h to 4h
DDMAPh: Digoxin 100 mg, Diazepam 1 gm, Morphine 15 gm, Amitriptyline 8gm, Phenobarbital 5 gm.
Time to death: 1.1h to 5.1h
D-DMAPh: As above, but digoxin is given separately, 30 minutes before the other medications.
Time to death: 1.1h to 3.8h

DDMP2 vs D-DMP2: The dash in D-DMP2 signifies a pause of 30 minutes between giving
the digitalis and the morphine/diazepam/propranolol. The reason is that without giving digitalis separately, the tiny amount of digitalis
(100 milligrams) gets lost amid the huge mass of the other meds (18,000 milligrams)—and the digitalis doesn't get absorbed. By using pre-digitalis, i.e. dig alone for
30 minutes, the dig is rapidly absorbed—providing more rapid and thorough digitalis toxicity.

Additional ressources:
- https://www.acamaid.org/wp-content/...on-Protocols-for-Medical-Aid-in-Dying-1-1.pdf
- https://www.acamaid.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/12-5-19-DDMA-instead-of-DDMP2.pdf
- https://endoflifewa.org/wp-content/...r-Taking-Life-Ending-Medications-Jan-2020.pdf
In the pharmacy compounded version, I believe they use crushed pills as well except from the Digitalis powder because it mentioned in one of the MAiD to use Digitalis powder and not crushed pills. Plus I also read that the MAiD as qualified as blue-whale mixture in reference to the amount of powder that needs to be ingested. That being said, we don't have access to Digitalis powder and need to replace it with Digoxin pills. That equates to over 300 pills and take a huge volume for a fetal mixture (half a cup of powder). In comparison, when powderized the remaining pills (diazepam, morphine and propanolol) only fill 1/4 of a cup. So we are dealing with a large volume of powder to be ingested. The risk of vomiting and regurgitation is lowered of course by taking strong antiemetics prior to the end-of-life cocktail. Nonetheless, with D-DMP/A protocols, we are required to actually drink 2 mixtures: first a mixture of Digoxin pills and 30 minutes later, a second mixture of the remaining drugs. Hence, we need very powerful antiemetics to control vomiting and regurgitation. The official MAiD protocol asks for 2ml haloperidol and 20mg metroclopramide: but will this be sufficient for the DYI version? I read in one SN protocol on SS to start taking antiemetics 2 days before SN. Would that make sense? Note that the antiemetics are Neurolpetics and they make you feel down. There is no perfect solution but I am trying to find something that would be acceptable and that would increase the chances of the DYI version to work. It's just a shame we don't have access to a doctor or a pharmacist to help us with these vital questions. I do believe that it's a fundamental right to end one's life when we are no longer able to enjoy life.

Here is a summary of our discussion. Let me know what you think:

RISKS | MITIGATIONS

Too much powder | Antiemetics
Start 2 days prior

Morphine SR | Pulverize micro-beads
Dissolve in warm vodka

there are further problems.

1. can the tablets be pulverized and stored 1-2 days in advance? Or will they lose their effect.

2. how long does it take for the medication to dissolve in water?

1. Yes. Tablets can be pulverized and stored in advance in a dark glass bottle probably for a few weeks without losing potency and probably for a few months - but that we don't know because the MAiD protocol says that the shelf life is undetermined. Once reconstituted in liquid, the end-of-life mixture can be stored for 72 hours.

2. It's best to dissolve the medication in liquor (MAiD protocols call for vodka, whiskey and Grand Marnier) because the active pharmaceutical ingredients dissolve best in liquor. Because we are using the slow release version of Morphine (note that the instant release Morphine is impossible to get ahold of), the liquor should be warmed (but not hot) to help dissolve the gel-like substance coating on the Morphine micro-beads.

Do you agree with my answer? Do you see any remaining questions around the DDMP/A protocol? Thank you

 

[Myrmecia]

Good question
1. I believe the tablets can be pulverized and stored for a period of 6 months but TBC

What do you mean with TBC?

When I pulverize the tablets, I store them separately in small medication bags.
These bags are then placed in a mylar bag with silica gel, oxygen absorber and moisture indicator.
The bag is then heat-sealed.
So everything is sealed and protected from oxygen, moisture and light.
But this are only 3-4 Day before my CTB Day.
I hope the medication keeps its effect for these few days.

My Antimetics are 20mg Domperidon + 8g Ondansetron 30 minutes before drinking.


My problem is i dont drink alcohol, liquor/vodka/whiskey that´s not mine.

 

[007Bob]

What do you mean with TBC?

When I pulverize the tablets, I store them separately in small medication bags.
These bags are then placed in a mylar bag with silica gel, oxygen absorber and moisture indicator.
The bag is then heat-sealed.
So everything is sealed and protected from oxygen, moisture and light.
But this are only 3-4 Day before my CTB Day.
I hope the medication keeps its effect for these few days.

My Antimetics are 20mg Domperidon + 8g Ondansetron 30 minutes before drinking.


My problem is i dont drink alcohol, liquor/vodka/whiskey that´s not mine.

TBC = To Be Confirmed
I don't drink alcohol either. But I will make an exception on my CTB day. I will probably drink the 1st mixture (Digoxin) with warm water and drink the 2nd mixture (Diazepam, Morphine, Propanolol) with warm vodka.

What do you mean with TBC?

When I pulverize the tablets, I store them separately in small medication bags.
These bags are then placed in a mylar bag with silica gel, oxygen absorber and moisture indicator.
The bag is then heat-sealed.
So everything is sealed and protected from oxygen, moisture and light.
But this are only 3-4 Day before my CTB Day.
I hope the medication keeps its effect for these few days.

My Antimetics are 20mg Domperidon + 8g Ondansetron 30 minutes before drinking.


My problem is i dont drink alcohol, liquor/vodka/whiskey that´s not mine.

You should probably store the meds in a dark glass jar, not plastic bag. The main problem comes from Diazepam because it fuses with plastic.

 

[Euthanza]

Do you think the DYI protocol is feasible? What other remaining issues do you see?

20-24 grams of powder in solution is feasible and this method is among the most peaceful. The downside I could imagine it will taste very bitter.

 

[Myrmecia]

Here the newes Update.
The Academy now recommends one single protocol for all patients: DDMAPh.
https://www.acamaid.org/pharmacologyinfoupdates/

DDMAPh: Digoxin 100 mg, Diazepam 1 gm, Morphine 15 gm, Amitriptyline 8gm, Phenobarbital 5 gm

 

[Euthanza]

20-24 grams of powder in solution is feasible and this method is among the most peaceful. The downside I could imagine it will taste very bitter.

I mean 29,1 grams

Here the newes Update.
The Academy now recommends one single protocol for all patients: DDMAPh.
https://www.acamaid.org/pharmacologyinfoupdates/

DDMAPh: Digoxin 100 mg, Diazepam 1 gm, Morphine 15 gm, Amitriptyline 8gm, Phenobarbital 5 gm

Bailey's Popsicle immediately comes to my mind, thank you so much,

 

[Myrmecia]

I mean 29,1 grams

In Tablets pulverized is that much more.

 

[karel1987]

How do you get all that medication?

 

[Myrmecia]

There Sources in the Clear Web and DN.

 

[karel1987]

Can someone pm me the sources?

 

[Defenestration]

How do you think about compounding all these substances without a medical prescription?

Impossible these substance are a médical prescription

 

[justwannadip]

I've been looking into this but I need to do more research on finding out how to get some of these drugs reliably. I could get amitriptyline and diazepam from my psych easily, but the digoxin, 15g of morphine, and phenobarbital would be difficult and I wouldn't know where to start. I don't have a heart condition so I couldn't get digoxin prescribed, 15g of morphine is a shit ton and I'd probably have to find a source on the DN even tho I don't know how to use it, and the pheno I'd either have to try and get from a vet or from the DN too. If anyone could pm me and give me tips on using the DN to find these I would greatly appreciate it

 

[SpeciesB-9]

I've been looking into this but I need to do more research on finding out how to get some of these drugs reliably. I could get amitriptyline and diazepam from my psych easily, but the digoxin, 15g of morphine, and phenobarbital would be difficult and I wouldn't know where to start. I don't have a heart condition so I couldn't get digoxin prescribed, 15g of morphine is a shit ton and I'd probably have to find a source on the DN even tho I don't know how to use it, and the pheno I'd either have to try and get from a vet or from the DN too. If anyone could pm me and give me tips on using the DN to find these I would greatly appreciate it

All this resources are finding in ClearWeb and DN Shops, no Problem.

But the biggest Problem with this method is the enormous amount of tablets to take.
All tablets must be pulverized and dissolved in enough water and than drinking.
Vomiting is a big problem.

I mean a better way is a combintation of the SN and DDMA or DDMPh.....
First drinking SN and than a little mixture of this DDMA, i think that´s enough.

 

[prisonerofexistence]

In Tablets pulverized is that much more.

I think that almost full glass of powder let alone water or whisky,if you crash all the tablets,how are you gonna drink all that?

 

[007Bob]

I think that almost full glass of powder let alone water or whisky,if you crash all the tablets,how are you gonna drink all that?

This is a good question. Has it been done before? Were people successful with the DIY version? I don't know. There is no data or information on this.

 

[SpeciesB-9]

This is a good question. Has it been done before? Were people successful with the DIY version? I don't know. There is no data or information on this.

That is absolut correct, there is no information about this in the forum.
Nor could I find any information anywhere else that an individual has committed CTB using this method.

I think there are 2 reasons for this.

1.) It is difficult to get all these drugs, more difficult than SN, and more expensive.

2.) This is an incredibly high number of tablets that you have to pulverize in water and then drink.
This method was, I assume, only carried out on the test subjects with powder form and you can't normally buy that as a normal person.
I didn't find it in the DN either.

An example.
1 tablet of Diazepam has 10mg of active ingredient.
However, the tablet weighs 0.21g. So all the fillers are 20 times the actual active ingredient.
If you now calculate this to 800 - 1000 tablets (depending on the active ingredient) for the DDMAPh, this is an incredible amount of stuff that you have to drink that you don't even need.


The tablets may contain the following (apart from the active ingredient):

• Fillers: Lactose, Microcrystalline Cellulose, Calcium Phosphate.
• Binders: Starch, Polyvinylpyrrolidone, Gelatin.
• Disintegrants: Croscarmellose Sodium, Crospovidone, Modified Starches.
• Lubricants: Magnesium Stearate, Stearic Acid, Silicon Dioxide.
• Humectants: Sorbitol, Mannitol, Glycerin.
• Coating Agents: Hypromellose, Ethylcellulose, Sugar.
• Colorants: Iron Oxides, Titanium Dioxide, Various Food Dyes.
• Preservatives: Parabens, Sorbic Acid.
• Flavors: Vanillin, Menthol, Fruit Flavors.
• Buffering Agents: Citric Acid, Sodium Citrate.

I suspect that the body cannot process the whole amount of additives and will react accordingly with vomiting.
This is certainly done on purpose so that you can't swallow huge amounts of tablets.

I can't imagine that you can drink all that without vomiting immediately afterwards.

So i think the SN Method is the best, but we can combinated it with some of this drugs.

 

[007Bob]

That is absolut correct, there is no information about this in the forum.
Nor could I find any information anywhere else that an individual has committed CTB using this method.

I think there are 2 reasons for this.

1.) It is difficult to get all these drugs, more difficult than SN, and more expensive.

2.) This is an incredibly high number of tablets that you have to pulverize in water and then drink.
This method was, I assume, only carried out on the test subjects with powder form and you can't normally buy that as a normal person.
I didn't find it in the DN either.

An example.
1 tablet of Diazepam has 10mg of active ingredient.
However, the tablet weighs 0.21g. So all the fillers are 20 times the actual active ingredient.
If you now calculate this to 800 - 1000 tablets (depending on the active ingredient) for the DDMAPh, this is an incredible amount of stuff that you have to drink that you don't even need.


The tablets may contain the following (apart from the active ingredient):

• Fillers: Lactose, Microcrystalline Cellulose, Calcium Phosphate.
• Binders: Starch, Polyvinylpyrrolidone, Gelatin.
• Disintegrants: Croscarmellose Sodium, Crospovidone, Modified Starches.
• Lubricants: Magnesium Stearate, Stearic Acid, Silicon Dioxide.
• Humectants: Sorbitol, Mannitol, Glycerin.
• Coating Agents: Hypromellose, Ethylcellulose, Sugar.
• Colorants: Iron Oxides, Titanium Dioxide, Various Food Dyes.
• Preservatives: Parabens, Sorbic Acid.
• Flavors: Vanillin, Menthol, Fruit Flavors.
• Buffering Agents: Citric Acid, Sodium Citrate.

I suspect that the body cannot process the whole amount of additives and will react accordingly with vomiting.
This is certainly done on purpose so that you can't swallow huge amounts of tablets.

I can't imagine that you can drink all that without vomiting immediately afterwards.

So i think the SN Method is the best, but we can combinated it with some of this drugs.

Thank you for taking the time to send me your answer. It's very helpful. I am thinking about switching to the SN method indeed.

 

[PhDone]

All this resources are finding in ClearWeb and DN Shops, no Problem.

But the biggest Problem with this method is the enormous amount of tablets to take.
All tablets must be pulverized and dissolved in enough water and than drinking.
Vomiting is a big problem.

I mean a better way is a combintation of the SN and DDMA or DDMPh.....
First drinking SN and than a little mixture of this DDMA, i think that´s enough.

Sorry, what is DN shops?

What are you thinking in terms of the combo? Standard amount of SN, ie. 25g? Then how much of the DDMA? Or would you go D-DMA, or DDMP given propranolol is part of the recommended SN protocol?

 

[opheliaoveragain]

Sorry, what is DN shops?

What are you thinking in terms of the combo? Standard amount of SN, ie. 25g? Then how much of the DDMA? Or would you go D-DMA, or DDMP given propranolol is part of the recommended SN protocol?

DN=Dark Net shops.

 

[teddexter]

Thank you for taking the time to send me your answer. It's very helpful. I am thinking about switching to the SN method indeed.

I agree. The more I read about DDMAPh, the less feasible it seems. I wonder if switching from diazepam and morphine to more potent RC benzos/opiods would work better in the protocol. Again, there's absolutely no data here apart from anedotal accounts of accidental overdoses from small amounts/combinations.