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TAW122

TAW122

Emissary of the right to die.
Aug 30, 2018
7,047
Introduction

This is a topic and some thought that I had on and off during the span of my existence, starting from as young as conception (baby) and even into present day. As I became more self-aware and deeper, complex thoughts arose, I thought of the question "Where does evil come from?" "Are humans just inherently evil from start?" "Where is the root of all this?". These are rhetorical questions that I ponder throughout my life and as someone who is an atheist, non-religious person, and using logic, I seek to explain (based on my own hypothesis and perhaps anecdote) where, why, and how this came to be. Before that proceed, I will add a disclaimer just to make things clear.

Disclaimer: I am NOT a doctor, psychiatrist, or any mental health professional nor am I a philosopher or legal expert, and also I am an atheist (therefore, I don't believe in any deities nor worship any). This article is just my own thoughts and insights as to what I think the answer is based on my life experiences as well as deductive logic.

Now with that said, the main topic is where did all this evil in humanity and evil in general originate from? That is the elephant in the room and to answer that I will go back as far as I can remember from childbirth to try to recall where it started. I don't believe that all humans and sentient beings are just born evil, but rather the environment, upbringing, and of course (to a lesser degree but also possible) their personality and disposition (the latter being tied to the former too). Before that, what is 'evil' really? It is an adjective that describes the state of something or even an entity itself (the supernatural for instance, but that doesn't apply in this thread). So something (a thing) is evil whenever it has little to no good qualities or is only harmful and undesirable, and for a person, it is a description of their character, the overall personality, and behavior (as well as actions).

It is obvious that one's influences as a young child, or even during one's developmental years will greatly impact their outcome throughout childhood, adolescence, and even into adulthood. There is no debate about that, however, I'm going further back to the root, which is even before that. From the first forms of discipline, upbringing, and even how one treats their children will impact how the child shapes throughout it's life. So here is a story of my personal (anecdotal) upbringing from as far back as I could recall.

TAW122's childhood, soon after birth:

Going as far back as I can to whenever I had my first memory (or some of the earliest memories) that I can recall, as someone who is in preschool or even kindergarten. I remember myself as an energetic person and someone who is just very active and moved around a bit. I don't recall when the idea of revenge, getting evil, violence, or any of such concepts manifested, however, I do recall the first sign of pain and suffering, from scoldings to spankings (harsh corporal punishment) for acting out or doing things. I don't recall my actions being malevolent or harmful, but merely a nuisance and annoyance. The concepts of evil, which entail vengeance, malevolence, resentment, violence, and harm likely stemmed from there as that would likely be the seed of such.

Other incidents that furthered the notion of evil:
In addition to a tumultuous, authoritarian upbringing from childhood until early adulthood (even then there are still a few), there were also times where I suffered bullying and harassment, and then the concept of defending and fighting back came about. Some could argue that defending oneself from harm (especially if it involved the use of 'violence') can be evil, but ironically they justify it as a necessary evil. Of course, throughout my life, there are instances of this, coupled with my upbringing and personal life experiences (which vary between individual to individual, no one is exactly the same), led me to where I am in present day.

So as a summary, I don't consider that I was just evil from birth and that I was born 'evil'. The environment, upbringing, and influences I had as a child along with events around the world and culture shape and mold me into who I am. It won't be until near adulthood that I was able to differentiate and control this 'evil', but I digress as this megathread isn't solely about my life story nor am I going to make it be just that. It is about the root of evil and how it isn't tied to birth or innate evilness.

Animals and nature (not necessarily evil):

Animals by nature are for survival and while their actions may be construed as 'evil' per human standards, as they cause harm to further the survival of their own species. It would be considered a part of 'nature'. As for the universe, the universe (a non-sentient entity) would have no input or any say in it. It simply becomes "it is what it is" as cliché as it may sound. They are doing what they are doing in order to survive and propagate (their own species). One could also argue that plants are also not evil and they are doing what they are programmed to do, by evolution.

However, given the premise that animals do what animals do for survival (naturally), they don't inherently have evil by default. Instead, environmental circumstances (if human-made) caused them to be desperate, they would act accordingly (which isn't evil, but is perceived as 'evil' from the outside and moralistic perspective). By this, I am referring to when a cornered animal is threatened, they would attack and lash out, not out of evil or so (even if humans or other third parties interpret it as such), but out of desperation of the situation.

Similarly, if humans were trapped, they would do desperate things, being in a desperation situation. It doesn't mean that said human is inherently evil, but they are desperate for escape (peace from suffering) and the lack of peace from suffering results in a desperate act (when they believe the only other valid move or action is to fight back – out of desperation). More on that later in this megathread.

Vengeance (a form of evil, but also an ancient mechanism):

Vengeance is an evolved trait that comes from the desire for fairness and justice (good video portion explaining it) and while innately, this part is normally dormant and was evolved from one's human ancestors. It is generally there, but not really executed or surfaced unless there are triggers for it such as unfairness, injustice, slights, and/or other causes. Vengeance itself generally gets a negative connotation and is often seen as 'evil' because it results in harm to the parties involved (even the guilty party). However, vengeance itself is more of a tool and means for survival (in the ancient world before justice and legal systems were invented and established). I do believe that 'vengeance' as a concept and tool was evolved by humans (throughout human history) first as a way to protect one's species from harm and to right the wrongs. Of course, with vengeance, one could even claim that justice is a form of vengeance, only more civilized and controlled (as humanity itself became more organized and civilized and the State, the government, became more prevalent throughout human history). I won't go far off tangent on vengeance itself and justice as that would be another topic for another thread itself.

Anyways, regarding vengeance, and human instinct to act on it, some humans turn to vengeance as a form of justice when the system itself fails to right the wrongs incurred by the wronged party (plaintiff in this case), whether by the legal system or social system. Therefore, as a way to right the wrongs, these aggrieved humans turn to 'vengeance' by taking matters into their own hands. But from an outsider's perspective, since these individual(s) took matter into their own hands via vengeance, they are viewed as 'evil'. There are some instances where vengeance can go too far and that too is considered evil. But the root of vengeance itself comes from the fact that one is wronged and has to find a way to right said wrong.

How Antinatalism avoids the problem altogether:

As I myself identify as an antinatalist, which is a belief that it is better for one to not procreate and bring new sentience into being (or into this existence) and just by definition, antinatalism itself skips the problem altogether. Of course, this thread isn't exactly focused on antinatalism, but just the concept itself can be applied to where the root of evil is. If there was nothing that was brought forth, there would neither be evil nor good, there would be nothing. Depending on where one stands, one could even argue that the lack of evil is a positive if the evil detracts from the overall good. The state of nothingness from an objective/universe's standpoint is considered neither an evil nor an good, but the lack of evil through the state of nothingness can be considered a net positive because of the lack of evilness or harm.

Of course, many people view the state of nothingness to be rather a negative instead of a positive because they believed that sentience (including the sanctity of life) is a positive state rather than an negative state (which is the unwanted, non-consensual imposition of sentience) onto unwilling participants (those who are born or conceived into this world). However, the lack of potential good or anything also carries the lack of potential harm, which is innately a net neutral and given the difference between potential harm (which leads to 'evil' but many more stages, steps, and time) and potential benefit, having nothing itself ultimately can avoid all problems of evil altogether.

The Prohibition of CTB resulting in being trapped and what it implies:

Now by this, I am not condoning bad behavior or anything that is illegal or wrong in society. Immoral, unethical, and illegal acts are still discouraged and denounced alike. However, this point is going to be how the prohibition of CTB as well as CTB prevention attitudes and policies in society leads to evil people. Perhaps not a super common occurrence, but there are people who want to CTB or already have CTB ideation and are desperate to want out, but because of how society prohibits CTB and the would be evil people would rather choose a way out but because they are denied that peaceful, legal avenue, they resort to brutal means. MarcMundSpilli's YouTube video (linked here) explains the consequence of not allowing a peaceful, dignified, exit.

As a result, people who (prior to becoming evil) wanted out of their sentient existence are not able to or have to resort to desperate, unreliable, and most likely, brutal means to exit, but even failing that, they end up being pushed towards evil itself. Most of them weren't inherently evil by innate nature, but by the environment, upbringing, and even just the world itself. (more later)

Given the "trolling wars":
I don't always like to use anecdotes to describe things, but using myself as an example, I would say that the prohibition of CTB, leads to the feeling of being trapped and coupled with how we live in a prohibitionist and paternalistic society leads to the actions that I led. Of course, I am not trying to state that what I did was appropriate or not (this is not the space for that), but I'm merely giving this anecdotal story to further serve as an example of where evilness came from.

In my case, it was about not being able to come to terms (and sadly, in present day reality, we are still living in a prohibitionist and paternalistic society, likely for the majority or even beyond our lifetime) with the prohibition of CTB and being desperate and trapped, unable to win an argument or convince the opposition (anti-choicers, prohibitionist, preventionists and similar) that their position is wrong and such, I resorted to trolling (and disruption) at public events and other functions, out of desperation. Of course, this wasn't productive and it was somewhat 'evil' in a sense that it caused annoyance, inconvenience, and detracted enjoyment for those who are at the events, functions, or places. It gave me a sense of catharsis and control as well as a sense of autonomy at the time and was the result of desperation and not total helplessness, even if the outcome wasn't positive or productive (at the time). Keep in mind this was much earlier in my days, well before I found SaSu or entered such a community or safe space to vent and discuss about CTB (and other similar topics) without censorship, gaslighting, and have actual dialogue. It was also a time where I did NOT know better and wasted time to try to persuade the opposition (which is ultimately counterproductive and fruitless) of my position and to convince them to change.

Ultimately, this story is just another example of where evilness came about how certain external factors led up to it. It is not a justification nor excuse of whether what I did was right or wrong.

Other examples:
For most people, your average normie or everyday lay person in this world, most of the evil stems from about three major sources, money (wealth), power (influence), and sex (lust). Part of that could even originate from one's own primal instincts, but one's primal instincts isn't inherently evil by default, but rather due to outside influences and what one chooses to do with them. Anything that is uncontrolled or unchecked, can lead to evil, but not always. Many of the crimes that most people deem to be evil (whether on the news, true crime documentaries, mysteries, and more), almost always stem from these three causes. Most commonly it would likely be money and wealth, though power and influence are fairly common too. Then depending on the person, it could also be tied to sex and lust. In reality, there could be a combination of all three causes that drives a person to become 'evil' or commit 'evil' actions.

Video game/entertainment/film/movie/fictional example:
In many video game tropes and themes, there is often an antagonist in the story, and usually it's from a grievance or other conflict that is unresolved. Sometimes it could even just be greed and wanting of more power or bringing out what is forbidden. Granted some of these tropes that are exaggerated in a video game or fictional media does often reflect some real world examples, albeit to a more extreme degree rather than what is reality.

The lack of agency and autonomy, and other causes that leads to 'evil':

With that, there is also another cause that results into (eventually) evil for a particular individual, or group of people. How does the lack of agency and autonomy (eventually) lead to 'evil'? The video (timestamped and linked here) explains an evolutionary measure that humans have to ensure their survival, which is translated into autonomy and agency (even in the ancient times). The desire to control one's variables and environment and exercise one's personal autonomy, agency, in other words 'freedom'. This allows one to be able to attain the things one wishes in sentience which includes fulfilling goals and achievements, those 'goals and achievements' (could be any, subjective to each individual and varies) allow a person to thrive, be proud, feel good, and generally live well. However, the disruption or challenge towards this kind of stability results in people desperately wanting to reclaim agency and autonomy, which leads them to take adverse actions, some of which are 'evil' even if they aren't inherently evil by default. One could even argue that greed leads to evil and yes, indirectly it does as it pushes one to take more than what one should have, and if left uncontrolled, it can have very negative consequences.

Other causes (featuring some real world examples):
More examples include other real world examples, throughout many domains across life and history, can include the prohibition period in the early 20th century, where opportunists (due to greed and avarice) decide to capitalize on the (at the time) black market of alcohol. I won't go into all the complex details of such, but that is just one of many real world, historic examples of where 'evil' originated from, in this case, 'greed and opportunism' to turn a quick buck, to corner the market.

Another real world example (outside of prohibition) is negative influences by others, whether it is media, peers, trends (often the dumb viral ones), and many more. Even if someone is inherently not an evil person, exposure and (negative, evil) influence by media, one's peers, and/or even family in some cases. Therefore, if/when a person is influenced by negative people and/or influences in their lives, which also include being radicalized or such, they become evil, even if they are not inherently (or born) evil to begin with.

Conclusion:

The root of evil can stem from many things, but ultimately, I don't believe that one is innately born 'evil'. There are also many different perspectives and interpretations for where evil really came from, but ultimately, I would claim that it comes from a myriad of factors and causes, namely one's own environment, upbringing, outside influences, and of course, predisposition (which will affect the degree of evilness). I believe that ultimate core existence of all living organisms is 'survival' and that innately does not directly tie into evilness itself, rather the events, causes, environments, and influences outside of one's own sphere (or even within) will shape one into evilness.

However, if sentience never came to be (aka the new life that wasn't born) then there could be zero possibility of good or evil, as there would be nothing. The lack of something and therefore, nothing could neither be good nor evil. Most of society and most people view nothingness as evil because they see it as a deprivation of good rather than it's natural state, which is of course neutrality and nothingness. Therefore, having nothing means there is no chance for evil (or good).
 
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