New policy regarding method talk.

[Fragile]

I honestly can't blame you for making this decision, the safety of the people who use this forum as a place of support and venting is much more important right now. Obviously I feel like part of this forum has died recently, but in a way it was inevitable given the fact that this is an uphill battle against mega-corporate press and concerned mothers.

However, if we think that the anti-choice crowd is going to stop or even slow down on their unjust attacks on this place, then we are as delusional as the people who think that shutting this place down will have any positive impact on the lives of its users.

Thanks for your wonderful work @RainAndSadness, I truly believe that your compassion and protectiveness of the people in this forum has saved many lives.

 

[gr1lledcheese]

Does this mean that we are still being harassed by the NYT?

I'm sure that's it.

 

[waitingforrest]

Long time lurker here. Just checked in during a bad time and saw this. Right to live but no right to die, bulls**t. But I guess those of us on this site have the skills to find out about methods since we found this site in the first place. I can't even Google this site no more.

(And those who want to shut us down, fuck off. We aren't to blame for your loved one's deaths. Don't blame us because you feel guilty you couldn't save them. You all talk like this site killed them but why didn't they just talk to you about their ctb thoughts? It's because of the stigma you guys perpetuate. People like us can't talk about our true feelings because our rights will be taken away. I can't talk to my family or mental health professionals because they will send me to grippy sock jail. You want to shut down the site, fine. But what is your plan then for preventing cbt? Clearly the system right now is failing. Sorry for the rant mods, feel free to delete if I broke a rule, no offense taken.)

 

[ThankYouNYT]

I only just started using this site. Really disappointing, though I guess unsurprising. Still, if the methods topics are still here, albeit locked, this site still has something to offer. And maybe once wankers like the NYT piss off... Well, as others have said, I'm sure this will turn out to be permanent.

These do-gooders aren't saving lives. What's the big deal in people swapping knowledge on how to leave painlessly? The NYT fights tooth and nail to ensure women can have an abortion but, when it comes to me ending my own life, irrationality reigns. Supposing I'm not in a position to fly to Switzerland to have Dignitas or whoever put me out of my misery. Suppose I just want to die peacefully in my own home. Absolute arseholes.

Really disappointing that I won't now be able to ask questions to clarify my understanding of methods. Will it at least be possible to have these discussions via PM, if not in public?

 

[eternalpeace]

Long time lurker here. Just checked in during a bad time and saw this. Right to live but no right to die, bulls**t. But I guess those of us on this site have the skills to find out about methods since we found this site in the first place. I can't even Google this site no more.

(And those who want to shut us down, fuck off. We aren't to blame for your loved one's deaths. Don't blame us because you feel guilty you couldn't save them. You all talk like this site killed them but why didn't they just talk to you about their ctb thoughts? It's because of the stigma you guys perpetuate. People like us can't talk about our true feelings because our rights will be taken away. I can't talk to my family or mental health professionals because they will send me to grippy sock jail. You want to shut down the site, fine. But what is your plan then for preventing cbt? Clearly the system right now is failing. Sorry for the rant mods, feel free to delete if I broke a rule, no offense taken.)

Not the point of your post, I know, but "grippy sock jail" made me burst out laughing. You have to have been there to get it…but yeah, that's what it is. I still shudder when I think of those awful socks!

 

[ayb]

Why isn't there a version of SS on an onion address that allows method discussion?

 

[eternalpeace]

Why isn't there a version of SS on an onion address that allows method discussion?

I had to Google what an onion address is. Im not very technologically adept, so this might sound like a stupid question, but what is the difference between the onion addresses and the dark web? Or are onion addresses just one sub-category of the dark web?

 

[StarryStarry]

uhhh why not ignore the attention and literally do nothing until someone tries to sue? I know I'd contribute to your legal fees in such an event and would encourage others around here to help if they're also able. You're doing nothing wrong, are not in the US-legal-wrong and have built this community up on a foundation of freedom to discuss and choose suicide. Whereas this website was created by people who were pushed off of other platforms for their philosophies around suicide, it seems like a remarkable turn or evolution for the substitute they created to now be starting the same process they wanted to escape.

I am maybe less sensitive toward negative judgment from others than most people, but I find it very difficult to care at all about whatever is being said about this place in Amazon Newspaper considering how blatantly obvious of a truth it is that the right to die at one's own hand is timeless and sure. If journalists want to voyeur on here, who cares?

Okay, so we all know how much I hate lawyers because they are scum of the earth, liars, narcissists, the list goes on. Do we really want to spend hard earned money on someone who probably believes the same as the people who are suing us? The laws in the US are meant for the rich and notable. We are merely a small dent in the universe (although I know how important we are). I believe the folks in charge are making tough decisions based on the facts. I'm behind you 100%

 

[Onthe29th]

It's ok and I understand. You all are doing good work for the world.

 

[cytokinestorm]

The pro lifers can knock themselves out trying to prevent suicide. They have nothing to offer a suicidal person. They're an irrelevance. People will do what they want anyway.

Nobody should be forced to remain alive against their will.

 

[radicalfreedom]

So you took the coward's way out. Some journalists spooked you and you backed down. You abandoned the people you set out to help. For shame.

 

[Pure]

This might just be my spidery senses on overdrive but I've long suspected that "method talk" is the device used by those infiltrating the site to gather up content and a moratorium on it would prevent members from interacting in a way which is only serving to give the site's enemies further ammo.

Even before the nyt article, with past media mentions I've seen other users point a possible association with that and new posts asking for methods in comically horrific and ineffective ways.

With nyt being the biggest exposure so far and mutlple politicians discussing the forum, of course the mods are gonna be cautious about this now.

Edit: forgot to add that some people's responses to this are ridiculous. You have to think more logically especially when interacting with journalists and politicians instead of throwing a tantrum.

 

[tearsontoast]

I had to Google what an onion address is. Im not very technologically adept, so this might sound like a stupid question, but what is the difference between the onion addresses and the dark web? Or are onion addresses just one sub-category of the dark web?

Yes, all onion domains are "hidden" from the traditional network, and can only be accessed by the Tor network (dark web).

 

[gombay]

So you took the coward's way out. Some journalists spooked you and you backed down. You abandoned the people you set out to help. For shame.

Try to be in mod's shoes. If you were running this site and you were scrutinized by one of the big media firms AND a running story filled with words like "dangerous", "no liability" and "suicide", what would you do? Not to mention that it's ideal for the mod to go through legal PRECAUTIONS than actions. Although i'd have liked if the mod made some archive of the documents and dumped it, it was probably the best decision he have made while all the eyes are on him right now. You can't make a wrong call during witchhunt by the woke.

 

[Chinaski]

So you took the coward's way out. Some journalists spooked you and you backed down. You abandoned the people you set out to help. For shame.

What the hell is this? This is a website for the depressed run by volunteers, not a guns-blazing campaigning force. If you want to launch a personal campaign against very powerful media orgs feel free, don't expect others to fight for you and then call them cowards when they make the wise decision to prioritise maintaining this community over making tits of themselves in the media.

You can't make a wrong call during witchhunt by the woke.

People should stop pointing at any old shit and calling it "woke" full stop imo but l particularly disagree here, the reality is that RTD in any form will get a fairer political hearing from those routinely dismissed as "woke" than it will from reactionary forces.

 

[affinity]

hey I was not totally read up when I wrote this. I did not realize lawmakers were threatening the administration. I want to say that I am not really read on US Law, but I am quite sure they cannot enact a new criminal law and then convict people for breaking it before it was assented. Like, that would be a bona fide human rights abuse I'm pretty sure? If there are genuine concerns of conviction for those running this site up to now, I am not sure those fears are reasonable or justified and think they probably exist more within the realm of paranoia than as a potential actuality.

I appreciate this won't be popular and it may have already been said much more eloquently, but here it goes:

I think the reality is that while the law is slow to catch up to online activity in many jurisdictions, there is precedent for the conviction of those who have *arguably* "encouraged" the suicide of another person and given how complicated the conflicts of laws issue (ie which country could assume jurisdiction) can be where you're hosting a site accessed across the world, if you encounter an aggressive prosecutor in a country/state etc that has laws which could be interpreted in such a way, I can most certainly see how an arrest could be made and I'm not just speaking about the owners of the site. This isn't just about protecting the mods of the site, it's also about protecting those who have posted in methods (and goodbye threads). Admittedly, my stomach has turned reading some threads, but I also appreciate it's not for me to judge.

I think we also have to realize that while friendships have been made here, we truly have no idea who people are on the other side of the screen and we have no idea what issues they may be facing that could be used as leverage. I personally had no idea the previous mods were involved in hosting/moderating incel message boards and given the comorbidities between the two, I wasn't surprised they walked away and that was likely for the best of this forum in terms of optics.

In any event, from a legal perspective, I agree that we can't put the toothpaste back into the tube. But, by taking this action, the current mods are doing what they can to preserve the forum, even though this may not be enough. All I will say is that you need to make a judgement call for yourself RE what is legally and morally correct in terms of what to post and it would be wise not to rely on the words of others who may not have the legal knowledge or expertise. The encouragement of suicide is a very, very muddy issue and I agree with the new mod to move as cautiously as possible going forward to the protect the board.

 

[Amumu]

Edit: forgot to add that some people's responses to this are ridiculous. You have to think more logically especially when interacting with journalists and politicians instead of throwing a tantrum.

Teach us Dr., it's true that this place really lacks self-righteousness.

Since when does replying to emotional nonsense with logics work?

 

[Capsicum_Corral]

Not the point of your post, I know, but "grippy sock jail" made me burst out laughing. You have to have been there to get it…but yeah, that's what it is. I still shudder when I think of those awful socks!

Laughter is good for you, and I laughed too. Are the "grippy socks" in question the same as those hospital socks that are too short, fit poorly, and covered with those wavy lines of 'sticky' rubbery stuff?

 

[eternalpeace]

Laughter is good for you, and I laughed too. Are the "grippy socks" in question the same as those hospital socks that are too short, fit poorly, and covered with those wavy lines of 'sticky' rubbery stuff?

I'm assuming that those are the socks that the post was referring to. Mental health experiences vary widely among different hospitals, but I think those socks are almost universal. (I have had the privilege of touring various psych wards across the country where I live, and the socks were always the same! Even in the hospital closest to the Arctic!)

 

[MammothJack]

I think the reality is that while the law is slow to catch up to online activity in many jurisdictions, there is precedent for the conviction of those who have *arguably* "encouraged" the suicide of another person and given how complicated the conflicts of laws issue (ie which country could assume jurisdiction) can be where you're hosting a site accessed across the world, if you encounter an aggressive prosecutor in a country/state etc that has laws which could be interpreted in such a way, I can most certainly see how an arrest could be made and I'm not just speaking about the owners of the site. This isn't just about protecting the mods of the site, it's also about protecting those who have posted in methods (and goodbye threads). Admittedly, my stomach has turned reading some threads, but I also appreciate it's not for me to judge. (Emphasis added)

Yeah. That's what I thought too when I saw this post. The vastly different legal systems across the nation in existence that might impose liability, civil or criminal, are the biggest threat. Even if laws were static, it would take dozens or hundreds of hours to review the applicable laws in every state, province, nation, etc. that might be able to reach the moderators, owners, and users of this website. Considering that laws are not static, the conflicts analysis would necessarily be an ongoing project. Pairing with pro-civil rights groups like The Satanic Temple might be an option, but it would be a very large undertaking for a non-profit.

Accomplice liability is definitely a potential issue though. Every state within the United States has its own legal system and definitions vary pretty wildly. "Encouraging" someone to commit a crime can be both its own criminal offense and make one an accomplice to the crime committed. Some enterprising prosecutor or District Attorney facing re-election might think it's worth taking a shot at something as unpopular as a forum providing advice on how to commit suicide. The necessary threshold for making an initial arrest (probable cause) is so low that an arrest is practically guaranteed if an official sought a warrant.

 

[RainAndSadness]

Hello everyone.

I just wanted to clarify something quickly. This anouncement here is slightly outdated and not quite accurate anymore. And it seems not all people are up to date regarding some changes that have happened since I've posted this thread.

We have created a new subforum a few days ago and as I've explained in this thread you're still allowed to discuss what we call "method talk" in that particular subforum. That's the reason why it exists. We've contained these discussions to a new section and tweaked some settings. In simple terms, not much has changed, we've basically rearranged the structure of the forum a bit. I didn't like the decision to remove discussions around methods from this forum altogether because it was a very radical step which strongly contradicts with the philosophy of this forum.

The new subforum has a higher privacy level and we've implemented some reasonable but basic requirements which unlock access for new members. They're not nearly as strict as the requirements of the Sanctuary and you'll be able to access the subforum once you've been active for a while. I think that's a decent compromise considering the circumstances.

I hope this clears up some of the recent disappointment.

 

[gecgecgec]

I've been a long-time lurker here and don't really interact with anyone, what's the requirements in order to access the subforum?

 

[affinity]

I've been a long-time lurker here and don't really interact with anyone, what's the requirements in order to access the subforum?

I don't have access and while I have a reasonable (I believe?) amount of posts, I'm guessing it's a mix of join date/posts, which is a bit frustrating, because I'm running short on time.

 

[OceanSpray]

Hello everyone.

I just wanted to clarify something quickly. This anouncement here is slightly outdated and not quite accurate anymore. And it seems not all people are up to date regarding some changes that have happened since I've posted this thread.

We have created a new subforum a few days ago and as I've explained in this thread you're still allowed to discuss what we call "method talk" in that particular subforum. That's the reason why it exists. We've contained these discussions to a new section and tweaked some settings. In simple terms, not much has changed, we've basically rearranged the structure of the forum a bit. I didn't like the decision to remove discussions around methods from this forum altogether because it was a very radical step which strongly contradicts with the philosophy of this forum.

The new subforum has a higher privacy level and we've implemented some reasonable but basic requirements which unlock access for new members. They're not nearly as strict as the requirements of the Sanctuary and you'll be able to access the subforum once you've been active for a while. I think that's a decent compromise considering the circumstances.

I hope this clears up some of the recent disappointment.

This is good to know. Hopefully, I'll be able to gain access to this subforum in awhile. For those of us who don't post a lot (I was a lurker for nearly a year), I hope access to the forum can be reached with a relatively low post count.

 

[ARW3N]

WOW this is shocking but, if I'm being honest, not completely surprising considering the recent events that have brought on so much heat, and even forced Marquis to quit.

I am deeply saddened to see such a valuble source of information be lost. I have read your threads, Rain, I know where you stand on this issue and I understand that you have not made this decision lightly. If the choice stands between closing down SS altogether and bannishing discussion about methods, there is only one possible course of action.

I can only hope this decision will be reverted, once things have calmed down.

Thank you for all your efforts!

Marquis has quit the forum!?

 

[dudeitsdarren]

Where do we access the old sub forum for viewing? I've been a passive viewer of the co thread for years

 

[AnnonyBox]

Glad I saved all the webpages for methods. I don't forsee this ending well. So much for having a place where people understand me, and I them.

 

[Callie Arcale]

Marquis has quit the forum!?

You will find more info in the thread "My letter of resignation".

 

[dearlybeloved998]

Glad I saved all the webpages for methods. I don't forsee this ending well. So much for having a place where people understand me, and I them.

Can you DM them to me please? I can't find them on the main page.

 

[mandyjohnuk]

Hi.
Are we aloud to message one another and openly discuss methods as this kind of communication would be between 2 people personally and not openly visible to all.