Venting Procreation is a Bad Idea

[Darkover]

Bringing a child into the world is often seen as an act of love, but when examined critically, it carries significant ethical concerns. Below are multiple ways procreation can be compared to problematic situations, reinforcing why it may not be a good idea.

Procreation is like playing Russian Roulette with extra chambers. Some children are born into good conditions, while others suffer extreme hardship. Parents spin the wheel, but the child pays the price. It's also like a lottery where the ticket holder pays the price—parents take the gamble, but the child is the one who must endure whatever life hands them.

Bringing a child into existence is like conducting a science experiment on a sentient being. A child is created and thrown into existence without a choice, forced to navigate an unpredictable world. It's also like lighting a firework that might be a dud or an explosion. Some lives shine briefly, others never get a chance, and some end in disaster. Yet, people keep lighting fuses.

Every child is sentenced to a life sentence without a crime. There is no parole until death. Life can be compared to a prison with different security levels—some are born into privilege, others into suffering, but no one escapes alive. The parole system doesn't exist. Once you're here, there's no official way out, even if life becomes unbearable. The worst part is that it's a prison where the inmates create new prisoners. People already stuck in life bring more people into it, continuing the cycle of suffering.

Life is like a genetic chain letter. Each generation is pressured to "pass it on," continuing the cycle indefinitely. It's also like a pyramid scheme where each person is expected to contribute, suffer, and produce more people to keep the system going

Being born is like signing up for a subscription you never agreed to. Suddenly, you must pay in suffering, work, and struggle just to exist. It's a lifetime membership with no refunds. Once you're in, there's no way out without severe consequences. Life operates on a pay-to-exist model. You must constantly work to afford basic survival, and if you can't pay, you suffer even more. It's also like a subscription that auto-renews. People keep adding new members (having kids) without asking if they even want to participate.

Life is a blind bet at a rigged casino. Parents wager that their child's life will be worthwhile, but the house (reality) always takes its cut in suffering. It's like an unpaid internship in the universe. You're given responsibilities, expected to perform, and may or may not ever be rewarded before your time runs out.

Life is like a loan that must be paid with pain. It's borrowed time, and the payment comes in suffering, labor, and inevitable decay. It's also like a gift that can't be returned. People say life is a "gift," but it's one that comes with responsibilities, suffering, and death—without an option to opt out.

Living beings reproduce like a self-replicating machine that doesn't question why. It's an instinctive process that continues without stopping to ask if it should. Life is like a fire that must keep burning. It perpetuates itself instinctively, never considering whether it should keep going, only that it can.

Procreation is often seen as an act of love, but in reality, it introduces another sentient being into a world where suffering is guaranteed, and happiness is not. It can be compared to a gamble, a prison sentence, an unwanted subscription, or a rigged game—none of which sound like good ideas.

 

[Lady Laudanum]

How about letting people live their lives and have kids if they want? You can debate ethics until you're blue in the face but the reality is you're not going to convince anyone of anything. Those who agree with you are not going to have kids anyways, and those who don't agree with you are also going to do what they personally think is right. Believe it or not, most parents are not terrible people even though no one is perfect. And no one is going to be living in perfect happiness all the time but the majority of people in the world are going to have a reasonably normal life.

 

[Darkover]

You can debate ethics until you're blue in the face but the reality is you're not going to convince anyone of anything.

Not necessarily true. Ethical debates have changed minds throughout history. Slavery, women's rights, and even environmental issues were once widely accepted until persistent debate and ethical reasoning shifted public opinion. While not everyone will change their mind, some do, and that alone makes debate worthwhile.

Those who agree with you are not going to have kids anyways, and those who don't agree with you are also going to do what they personally think is right

People's beliefs are not always set in stone. Some are undecided or open to considering new perspectives. Many people once wanted children but later changed their minds due to ethical concerns. If antinatalism had no persuasive power, there wouldn't be a growing number of people choosing to remain child-free for ethical reasons.

Believe it or not, most parents are not terrible people even though no one is perfect.

This is mostly true—most parents likely mean well. However, intentions do not always align with outcomes. Even well-meaning parents can bring children into circumstances of suffering, illness, poverty, or abuse. The argument against procreation isn't about whether parents are bad people but whether the act itself is ethically justifiable, given that life guarantees suffering and eventual death.

And no one is going to be living in perfect happiness all the time but the majority of people in the world are going to have a reasonably normal life.

Reasonably normal" is subjective. While some people live relatively stable lives, suffering is still a universal experience. Many people deal with mental illness, financial struggles, health problems, loss, or existential dread. Even those who appear to have "normal" lives can suffer in ways that aren't visible. Additionally, extreme suffering exists for millions—poverty, war, disease, and exploitation are not rare occurrences. The fact that some people may have tolerable lives doesn't negate the argument that procreation forces a risk onto a being who didn't consent to that risk.

The argument that "people will do what they want anyway" doesn't mean discussing ethics is pointless. Ethical arguments have historically influenced change. Procreation isn't just a personal choice—it has lifelong consequences for another being who had no say in the matter. Even if some people will always have children, that doesn't mean questioning the morality of creating life is irrelevant.

the majority of people in the world are going to have a reasonably normal life.

approximately 16% of the world's population—or about 1.3 billion people—live with a significant disability. This includes physical, sensory, intellectual, and mental health conditions that impact daily life.

This statistic highlights an important issue in the discussion of procreation: a significant portion of people are born into or develop conditions that can lead to suffering, dependence, and discrimination. It reinforces the idea that life is not guaranteed to be "normal" or "reasonably okay" for everyone.

according to the United Nations (UN) and the World Food Programme (WFP), around 10% of the global population—which is roughly 800 million people—experience chronic hunger and go to bed hungry each day. This includes severe food insecurity, malnutrition, and famine conditions in many parts of the world.

This statistic further supports the argument that life is inherently risky and that suffering is not an exception but a widespread reality. If 1 in 10 people face hunger daily, it challenges the idea that "most people live reasonably normal lives." Procreation brings a new person into a world where their survival and well-being are not guaranteed.

 

[Lady Laudanum]

Don't get me wrong, I don't want kids and I don't plan to have kids either. I just think that when it comes to choosing whether to have kids or not, people should be allowed to make an informed decision and we should respect their decision even if it doesn't align with what we personally believe. If someone was bashing on antinatalists, I would make the same argument about just letting people do what they want because it's out of your control. The thing is, a forum like this is going to be strongly biased toward antinatalism in the first place, so it's kind of an echo chamber. If you really want to change the world then you should find communities where your views are not going to be as widely accepted, and try to advocate for antinalism there instead.

 

[conflagration]

People bring kids into this world for all kinds of selfish reasons:
- to have someone who will love you unconditionally (instead of the other way around)
- to have someone you can control and you can abuse so you can pass your unresolved trauma
- to have someone who will take care of you when you are old
- to realize your unfulfilled ambitions
- and my favorite one, straight from my mother's mouth: to relieve your childhood

 

[Forever Sleep]

I can't really believe that all would-be parents are so irresponsible that they don't even consider the things that could potentially go horribly wrong in their child's life. What if they become ill? What if they get bullied? What if they struggle academically or to find work eventually?

I just think they have this belief that, with their support, their child will be able to get through anything. Love conquers all or whatever. I think maybe things go kind of rose tinted when you want children. I agree there are a lot more selfish reasons people want them but, they probably don't want to admit to them.

I suppose we're also ignoring the probability that a large number of these people simply don't see the same problems with life that we do. Maybe they acknowledge that a life usually contains its share of problems but, they just seem to accept that I suppose. So- they maybe don't even question that their child may not.

In a way, I think that's the difference between suicidial and non suicidal people. Not necessarily that the non suicidal people aren't suffering- some are suffering terribly. Perhaps even more than some of us. It's just that they seem more willing to accept it.

 

[Darkover]

People bring kids into this world for all kinds of selfish reasons:
- to have someone who will love you unconditionally (instead of the other way around)
- to have someone you can control and you can abuse so you can pass your unresolved trauma
- to have someone who will take care of you when you are old
- to realize your unfulfilled ambitions
- and my favorite one, straight from my mother's mouth: to relieve your childhood

Usually it's just a desire to have sex and the pregnancy is unplanned meaning a lot of people end up having kids without ever truly deciding to even if they aren't fully ready.

 

[Pluto]

 

[Richard Langford]

Usually it's just a desire to have sex and the pregnancy is unplanned meaning a lot of people end up having kids without ever truly deciding to even if they aren't fully ready.

Hardly, in the age of readily available and extremely reliable Birth Control - even for school aged children. I think it's a considered decision for the majority of parents these days. Even more so, as people are ever increasingly aware of the financial ramifications of doing so. Without wishing to sound rude, yours is a rather dated viewpoint.

 

[theolivanderroach]

Living beings reproduce like a self-replicating machine that doesn't question why. It's an instinctive process that continues without stopping to ask if it should.

I can forgive every other life form except humans for that. We are the only ones who are have higher intelligence and are moral agents. So we should make the ethical choice of not reproducing. But most people are fucking morons operating on their lizard brains.

 

[Darkover]

Hardly, in the age of readily available and extremely reliable Birth Control - even for school aged children. I think it's a considered decision for the majority of parents these days. Even more so, as people are ever increasingly aware of the financial ramifications of doing so. Without wishing to sound rude, yours is a rather dated viewpoint.

get your facts right before posting
In England, 45% of pregnancies are unplanned. This means that one in three births in England are unplanned.
In the United States, for example, around 40% of pregnancies are unplanned,
Unplanned pregnancies account for about 45% of all pregnancies worldwide

 

[L'absent]

What you wrote is a surgical dissection of the existential trap we are caught in. Every metaphor you used is a blow to the collective illusion of 'life as a gift.' And yet, most people refuse to see it.
These days, a 23-year-old I know has found himself with a sentence he never asked for: stage three lung cancer. He worked, got a mortgage, tried to build something for the future. And instead, the future betrayed him before it even began. Now he knows his existence has an early expiration date, yet he thanks his parents for giving him life.
Thankful for what, exactly? For being thrown into an existence he never chose, forced to play a game where the house always wins? It's like a prisoner praising their jailer for giving them a bed to die in.
Procreation is the only contract where the one who pays the price never consented to it. It's a one-sided deal where the weakest party is catapulted into an existence they never asked for, forced to endure whatever fate throws at them. The only certainty? Pain, suffering, decay. Happiness is a distant possibility, not a guarantee.
Parents roll the dice with destiny, but it's the children who pay the debt of their gamble. You are born with an automatic sentence: mandatory survival until death. There's no escape, no refunds, no way out without devastating consequences.
And yet, the dominant narrative keeps glorifying life, painting it as a precious gift, an unmissable opportunity. It's the greatest scam ever devised. It's not a gift; it's an existential fraud. It's not luck; it's a self-perpetuating sentence.
And the greatest paradox? The prisoners of this system, instead of rebelling, instead of breaking the chain, continue it, bringing new prisoners into the world. Because illusion is more comfortable than reality. Because facing the void is too terrifying.
But the truth doesn't change: life is an indefinite sentence in a prison with no escape. And the jailers? They are the ones who delude themselves into thinking they committed an act of love.

 

[Richard Langford]

get your facts right before posting
In England, 45% of pregnancies are unplanned. This means that one in three births in England are unplanned.
In the United States, for example, around 40% of pregnancies are unplanned,
Unplanned pregnancies account for about 45% of all pregnancies worldwide

So as I said, it's a considered decision for the MAJORITY. Perhaps you should read things more carefully before you do.

 

[divinemistress36]

I wish I was aborted. I dont understand human nature and the desire to create more suffering . My brain is wired differently though

 

[DivineSpark]

I am fucked up, just too fucked up to have any children. So many mental health problems.

 

[isthisit?]

sorry to say this, but it seems like you have been depressed so long that you never have a good day anymore.
for most people though (like me, my gf and my friends), depression is a small part of our life which comes and goes and for the rest of the time, life is fun and great.

 

[Darkover]

life is fun and great.

it's also painful and horrible

 

[roommate]

A good amount of people are way more aware of mental issue's now-a-days when concidering a child.
To be honest I think the majority of people I have around me have a good quality of life aswell (like 80-90%).

A lot of old class mates (I'm around 30) are getting children and I believe they will bring a good quality of life to them.
But I believe some people don't take too much concideration and shouldn't have gone for it, but that's something that's not in our control unfortunately.

 

[Ligottian]

I'd curse myself if I became a father. A son of my own! Oh, no ,no, no! Let my flesh perish with me, and let me not transmit to anyone the curse of life.

- Gustave Flaubert (1821-1880)

 

[dust-in-the-wind]

55f old here. Consciously made the decision to not have children because I suffer from mental illness and think the suffering is too great. But normal people are happy to have been born and think life is a gift and every minute you are alive is precious. It's all in your perspective.

 

[yehxlder.666]

I still believe people should have the right to choose whether they want to have a child, and children should have the right to decide if they want to continue living in the future(right to die). I also think abortion should be legal worldwide. If the parents are not in a good position to raise a child, it is cruel to force them to do so—for both the parents and the child. Besides that, while suffering is guaranteed in this world, many people still love the life they have. Life isn't just about suffering; there's also happiness, joy, good memories, etc. A lot of people find life worth living, which is why they see it as a gift. Not every child hates their life or regrets being born. Denying new souls the opportunity to experience life and potentially happiness based on personal experience and views is also selfish.

 

[ThatStateOfMind]

Usually it's just a desire to have sex and the pregnancy is unplanned meaning a lot of people end up having kids without ever truly deciding to even if they aren't fully ready.

It doesn't help that, in the US, abortion is becoming increasingly restricted. I don't think it should be a form of contraceptive, but it would help these young people who get pregnant, either through negligence or failed birth control methods, from having kids at a young age and their lives becoming much harder, or the kid having a terrible life due to unready parents, or both!

If I somehow had a kid right now, I'm fairly certain that my life would go downhill fast, I can barely afford to take care of myself alone, let alone a child. Since I have mental illnesses, and those can be genetic, I would also say there's a good chance my child would experience the same mental suffering.

For those reasons, I'm against having a child. Though I'm not strictly anti natalist. As others have said, I would wager ~80% of people have a decent life.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

To me the enjoyable addictions are worst things

What is worth pain like putting your hand on a scalding hot metal pan over fire on a stove and leaving it there for 20 seconds? What about being lowered your whole body onto hot metal over a fire as in The Brazen bull torture.. what is worth pain like the brazen bull for 20 seconds ? A minute of unending constant unbearable pain u can't move away from. Is eating a sandwich worth 15 minutes of the brazen bull torture?

I don't need any meaningless pleasure garbage but I do want to avoid unbearable pain

I didn't ask for this evil imposition

I can guarantee there is pain worse than the Brazen bull : take the worst seconds of the pain your whole body lowered on metal over fire . But that pain never diminishes. Not seconds' try years decades of never ending constant unbearable pain every second for decades: that's life

But they lie and life is a beautiful gift

The brain is a torture chamber. I wish I were never born .it's the worst crime they imposed this hell on me

Those that keep saying life is good and so worth it are sending people into the worst serial torturer called life


The pleasurable addictions like youtube, social media, TV , news keep distracted from internalizing how evil life is and waste my time I could be using to get my suicide plan decided and ready to go

 

[Namelesa]

About people saying life for most people is positive and that's why procreation could continue to me isn't a good argument as people who don't exist don't actually benefit from being created as people who don't exist don't actually have a desire to want to live. This means that if no one existed then no one would be disadvantaged but if they do exist there is the potential to be disadvantaged as you can feel pain and regret about living and being born in the first place. Also to me its unfair to create new life that will suffer and dislike life just cus most others will like it as no one innocent should be forced into anything. We will never get to a point where all life will be happy and not want to die so the only solution to stop suffering is to not procreate.

 

[divinemistress36]

I

About people saying life for most people is positive and that's why procreation could continue to me isn't a good argument as people who don't exist don't actually benefit from being created as people who don't exist don't actually have a desire to want to live. This means that if no one existed then no one would be disadvantaged but if they do exist there is the potential to be disadvantaged as you can feel pain and regret about living and being born in the first place. Also to me its unfair to create new life that will suffer and dislike life just cus most others will like it as no one innocent should be forced into anything. We will never get to a point where all life will be happy and not want to die so the only solution to stop suffering is to not procreate.

I agree and why must we suffer just cause the majority thinks life is worth it?

 

[Ligottian]

Imagine two young girls who are kidnapped. One is raped, tortured, and finally murdered. The other escapes before any harm is done to her. So it all equals out, right?

 

[Namelesa]

Imagine two young girls who are kidnapped. One is raped, tortured, and finally murdered. The other escapes before any harm is done to her. So it all equals out, right?

I don't know if you are being sarcastic or serious but that doesn't equal it out at all. new people shouldn't have to forcefully go through extreme suffering just cus some other new people will be okay with life.

 

[Eudaimonic]

Whilst I agree that procreation is unethical largely because of risk imposition and the high probability of experiencing extreme suffering (really, the fact that suffering will be experienced at all, but that's a weaker argument contingent upon acceptance of antifrustrationism/axiological minimalism) in a lifetime, antinatalism as a cause is doomed and you're better off advocating for strategic widespread use of biotechnology to reduce/eliminate the world's suffering (cf. David Pearce's hedonistic imperative)

However, that's not to say that the two can never go hand in hand.

 

[lamy2006]

Imagine two young girls who are kidnapped. One is raped, tortured, and finally murdered. The other escapes before any harm is done to her. So it all equals out, right?

No it doesn't

there is no pleasure (in this case the pleasure of escaping unscathed, assuming they know nothing of the other girl) that could equal that pain of being raped, tortured and murdered.

i would go so far as to argue that if there was a perfect city (literally a utopia) but for it to stay that way then every year one child has to be raped tortured and murdered, then the responsible thing to do would be to leave the city and never look back.

 

[NoPoint2Life]

Imagine two young girls who are kidnapped. One is raped, tortured, and finally murdered. The other escapes before any harm is done to her. So it all equals out, right?

You're kidding, right?
As if the one who escapes won't still be traumatized?