Resource Rhizo's drug AMA – the only comprehensive resource on drug poisonings you will ever need

[Red Orca]

Does expiration dates affect how much should you adjust a dosage or should one rely in the values on the PPH regardless?

Currently working on a Lethal Cardiac compound but some of the drugs had expired since August and I have no manner to procure replacements for those. Also have access to other medications that are not in the described compound. Should I mix anything or would be too risky and end risking disposing all the stuff ingested?

 

[bipbapbop]

Codeine is probably not a strong enough opioid to reduce the severe pain from organ failure. Also, the half life is not long enough as organ failure is usually drawn out over multiple weeks if not months.

T3s at any toxic level will induce liver toxicity due to the acetaminophen in them. It will hurt. And probably won't work to ctb. The amount of codeine needed to be fatal is well above the amount that would include a toxic amount of acetaminophen.

Codeine crosses the blood-brain barrier at a much, much lower rate than strong opioids like heroin or fentanyl. Thus, it is unlikely to reach high enough concentrations around the opioid synaptic cleft to induce respiratory depression.

I would not recommend this as it is likely to have lasting injury, pain, and be unsuccessful, even in high doses. + The other risks inherent to opioids poisonings compounding the issue.

Ty for such a detailed reply! Disappointing to hear but you just saved me a lot of time and pain

 

[bunny_brownie9]

I know that lithium death can be painful & long & whatever (it won't matter in the end), is it effective?

 

[Rhizomorph1]

Do you have any thoughts on ketamine or ketamine analogs or other dissociatives for CTB? I get that it's less lethal than opioids/opiates, but k-holing is a very peaceful experience, and if it's anything like overdosing enough to CTB, death could be painless—even if you have to combine it with another method, like jumping or drowning. Also, I don't really trust dark web vendors, and I can buy 2-FDCK semi-legally on the clear web, from semi-reputable companies, so that's a bonus.

I can't imagine taking enough FDCK to die without vomiting. Oral bioavailability is incredibly low and the amount you would need to insufflate is incredibly high; probably nearing impossible. You could try rectal or IM administration but even then I would be surprised if it worked.

Likewise, ketamine + analogues have a massive therapeutic window, making them incredibly safe. The 2-6% statistic likely applies.

If anything, I would use ketamine/analogues as a general anesthetic for a cardiac switch (in combination with another lethal drug). Even then, you would probably be better off just drinking alcohol to lose consciousness/sensation. Both will induce nausea and vomiting, hindering reliability.

I know that lithium death can be painful & long & whatever (it won't matter in the end), is it effective?

I can't find specific statistics on lithium itself, but gathering it is not in the PPH and the mechanism of death is organ failure, it is probably not very effective. Likely reflected by the 2-6% statistic if I had to guess.

Ty for such a detailed reply! Disappointing to hear but you just saved me a lot of time and pain

Glad to know it will save you the pain. I hope you can find SN if you are serious about this.

Wishing you peace in living or dying

Does expiration dates affect how much should you adjust a dosage or should one rely in the values on the PPH regardless?

Currently working on a Lethal Cardiac compound but some of the drugs had expired since August and I have no manner to procure replacements for those. Also have access to other medications that are not in the described compound. Should I mix anything or would be too risky and end risking disposing all the stuff ingested?

As long as they are stored airtight and the seal is not broken, there is little reason to believe expired drugs will have lost much, if any considerable potency.

If you are concerned, it won't hurt to adjust by adding a bit more for most drugs (I know for SN you can. The risk of vomiting goes up marginally but I significantly as long as you aren't drinking 100s of grams). But it's probably not strictly necessary.

If you are taking a cardiac switch, you will want to combine the lethal drug with a drug that causes loss of consciousness. Follow the specific protocol in the PPH.

 

[devilsnjd]

Hi Rhizo,

What are your thoughts on this:

A) 40 grams caffeine pills

B) 800 mg ephedrine pills

C) 55 mg olanzapine (zyprexa) as anti-emetic

D) 2700 mg zoloft

My thoughts are zoloft probably serves no purpose for the caffeine/ephedrine overdose interaction and the olanzapine is intended to serve as an anti-emetic to not throw up.

 

[Rhizomorph1]

Hi Rhizo,

What are your thoughts on this:

A) 40 grams caffeine pills

B) 800 mg ephedrine pills

C) 55 mg olanzapine (zyprexa) as anti-emetic

D) 2700 mg zoloft

My thoughts are zoloft probably serves no purpose for the caffeine/ephedrine overdose interaction and the olanzapine is intended to serve as an anti-emetic to not throw up.

Caffeine + ephedrine is a recipe for a cardiac event (e.g., heart attack, stroke, etc.), which will be very painful, if successful.

Still, the odds of successfully ctb from these drugs is probably only moderate, even with a cardiac event.

Zoloft will definitely only make matters more painful by causing serotonin syndrome + seizures, which can cause a lot of damage but usually "elsewhere" compared to the cardiac event, and is unlikely to kill you. With the exception of using amitriptyline in a cardiac switch (see the PPH on this), antidepressants really shouldn't have any place in thoughtful & reliable suicide attempts; they're just too unreliable (even when combined) and the list of potential adverse effects is extensive.

An anti emetic is a must if this were to be attempted with success.

I can't recommend it on the basis of high risk for permanent debilitating injury, only low to moderate efficacy, and an almost guaranteed slow and painful death.

The "shotgun" approach of combining as many different drugs that could lead to different forms of toxicity usually isn't a good idea for various reasons (extraneous variables AKA unpredictability, unexpected interactions, pain, etc.). It's better to take a drug that acts on a single form of toxicity (e.g., cardiac vs. hypotoxic), and then taking a calculated dose of that one drug.

Hope this helps

 

[unabletocope]

Hi

What OD amounts/combinations would you say are fatal? I'm not sure what specific drugs to ask about but if I were to think of one I'd consider as an example amitriptyline

Thanks

 

[Rhizomorph1]

Hi

What OD amounts/combinations would you say are fatal? I'm not sure what specific drugs to ask about but if I were to think of one I'd consider as an example amitriptyline

Thanks

I'd check out the Peaceful Pill Handbook's section on using amitriptylene. Specifically, the section on cardiac switches. It will have dosage information.

Amitriptylene causes death by cardiac failure, which is quite painful alone. But, you can combine it with a drug that will result in unconsciousness (general anesthesia) so you don't experience or feel any pain from the cardiac failure.

Unlike other drugs which have an unreliable odds of inducing cardiac failure, amitriptylene is quite reliable at inducing fatal cardiac events if taken at the correct dosage alongside an anti-emetic.

Again, definitely read the PPH as it has dosage advice from a doctor and discusses which drugs can be used for general anesthesia alongside it + timeline protocols. You will also need an anti-emetic such as metoclopramide so you don't vomit.

Hope this helps and you find peace in living or dying

 

[unabletocope]

I'd check out the Peaceful Pill Handbook's section on using amitriptylene. Specifically, the section on cardiac switches. It will have dosage information.

Amitriptylene causes death by cardiac failure, which is quite painful alone. But, you can combine it with a drug that will result in unconsciousness (general anesthesia) so you don't experience or feel any pain from the cardiac failure.

Unlike other drugs which have an unreliable odds of inducing cardiac failure, amitriptylene is quite reliable at inducing fatal cardiac events if taken at the correct dosage alongside an anti-emetic.

Again, definitely read the PPH as it has dosage advice from a doctor and discusses which drugs can be used for general anesthesia alongside it + timeline protocols. You will also need an anti-emetic such as metoclopramide so you don't vomit.

Hope this helps and you find peace in living or dying

Hi, thanks for your answer. I have a followup question - do you think there are any pill doses/combinations that are fatal that are not covered in the PPH? I'm not sure how accessible the drugs covered in the PPH are to me and I'd like to know if there are any specific drugs that could work as a method that are not being discussed/considered/are more obscure but would be just as fatal

Thank you

 

[OverBeforeStart]

Amitriptylene causes death by cardiac failure, which is quite painful alone. But, you can combine it with a drug that will result in unconsciousness (general anesthesia) so you don't experience or feel any pain from the cardiac failure.

I have no access to benzo which is why I ignored this method so far. There has been a successful ctb here using ami and propranolol, reported to be peaceful, have any info on that? my only chance with ami is to combine it with another accessible drug to knock me out quickly. Can it be combined with olanzapine for example?

 

[melancholymallory03]

AMA:

I have a degree in psychology with specialized experience in substance use research, psychopharmacology, psychedelic research, etc.

I've also read a lot about drug poisonings, the PPH, and various methods on this forum. I've been using the dark net to buy drugs and been connected to underground drug- and street-entrenched communities for many years.

I get a lot of PM's asking about drugs – mostly for ctb purposes, but also for recreation – so I figured I'd make a dedicated AMA thread.

So AMA!

---

* Disclaimer:

I am not a doctor and despite my psychopharmacology knowledge, I have limited medical knowledge; I try my best to be upfront regarding anything I don't know and encourage people to make their own decisions after weighing the risks and benefits themselves. If I don't know the answer I will do my best to research it based on peer-reviewed research or the best available evidence.

Information = empowerment = improved rational decision making = increased ability to choose/self-determine (versus the coercive nature of e.g., mental illness stigma). Increased capacity for informed consent will, in theory, both:

1. Save lives & reduce serious injury and pain by reducing spontaneous and poorly planned suicides
2. Ease suffering in dying for people committed to dying.

I encourage people – namely young people – to exhaust their treatment options (psychotherapy, medication, rehabilitation, etc.) available to them before choosing to die, but respect people's wishes to not access treatment, even though I think this is often premature. With the exception of urgent and severe chronic pain conditions, or similar, suicide should be rationally deliberated and prepared for – in terms of both method and psychospiritually – over many months.

---

Resources:

Here's some valuable threads that should be read by anyone serious about ctb using drugs & will answer many questions as well:

A caution on drug poisonings (ODs)

A must read for anyone considering drug poisonings of any kind, to know the options, risks, & benefits: The Peaceful Pill Handbook (details inert gasses/exit bag, carbon monoxide, and cardiac switches too)

Opioid Megathread/Method

Stan's guide to SN

SN Bible

Wishing all beings peace in living or dying

Thank you

 

[unabletocope]

I have no access to benzo which is why I ignored this method so far. There has been a successful ctb here using ami and propranolol, reported to be peaceful, have any info on that? my only chance with ami is to combine it with another accessible drug to knock me out quickly. Can it be combined with olanzapine for example?

I can speak on olanzapine, I take that and it's not a quick acting drug, mind you I'm on a very small dose but I find it to be sedative over a length of time as opposed to instant

 

[sanitystruggle]

I have no access to benzo which is why I ignored this method so far. There has been a successful ctb here using ami and propranolol, reported to be peaceful, have any info on that? my only chance with ami is to combine it with another accessible drug to knock me out quickly. Can it be combined with olanzapine for example?

I was on olanzapine for a year. It's mildly sedating but it doesn't knock you out. I was on the maximum standard dose of 20mg/day (they use higher doses in some exceptional cases and in research I never used more than 20 so can't say how it would affect the sedative quality).

 

[Rhizomorph1]

Thank you

 

[OverBeforeStart]

I can speak on olanzapine, I take that and it's not a quick acting drug, mind you I'm on a very small dose but I find it to be sedative over a length of time as opposed to instant

I'm not actually sure when the effects of amitriptyline start being felt, according to what I've read it takes a while, so maybe instantly isn't an issue you just need to be unconscious when ami starts to work so you don't experience the symptoms. I'm wondering if a massive dose of both will knock you unconscious.

 

[unabletocope]

I'm not actually sure when the effects of amitriptyline start being felt, according to what I've read it takes a while, so maybe instantly isn't an issue you just need to be unconscious when ami starts to work so you don't experience the symptoms. I'm wondering if a massive dose of both will knock you unconscious.

I think I'm going to go for chloroquine instead, it's a lot more accessible and not withstanding buying ozaxepam I think it should work out, maybe will buy some benzos but we'll see

 

[sauan]

@Rhizomorph1
Hi. What's your opinion of Sodium Thiopental. How much it will need to be taken orally to CTB?

There is a discussion on this topic regarding this substance:

My Sodium Thiopental is here!

So, a few days ago I ordered 40 vials of Sodium Thiopental (20 grams total), an ultra-fast acting barbiturate that's supposedly a fair substitute for Pentobarbital or N as we like to call it. And it just arrived today! I'm so happy!! Unfortunately though, 2 out the 40 bottles broke in transit...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[Rhizomorph1]

@Rhizomorph1
Hi. What's your opinion of Sodium Thiopental. How much it will need to be taken orally to CTB?

There is a discussion on this topic regarding this substance:

My Sodium Thiopental is here!

So, a few days ago I ordered 40 vials of Sodium Thiopental (20 grams total), an ultra-fast acting barbiturate that's supposedly a fair substitute for Pentobarbital or N as we like to call it. And it just arrived today! I'm so happy!! Unfortunately though, 2 out the 40 bottles broke in transit...

sanctioned-suicide.net

Thiopental (pentothal, thiopentone, etc.) can be used as a viable & reliable replacement for pentobarbital (nembutal). The PPH mentions that you can take it orally at the same dose; 20g.

Taking an anti-emetic such as metocloperamide to prevent vomiting and testing your thiopental with a barbiturate test kit - such as those sold by exit international - is strongly advised. Much of the thiopental in unregulated markets is of questionable quality. At the very least, one should consume a sub-anesthetic dose such as 500mg to test it beforehand to ensure it results in sedative effects.

Hi, thanks for your answer. I have a followup question - do you think there are any pill doses/combinations that are fatal that are not covered in the PPH? I'm not sure how accessible the drugs covered in the PPH are to me and I'd like to know if there are any specific drugs that could work as a method that are not being discussed/considered/are more obscure but would be just as fatal

Thank you

I would say that any drugs that have not been mentioned in the PPH are likely to have low to moderate reliability at best and are likely to have complications such as risk of injury. For this reason, I cannot in good faith recommend any other drugs.

BDO or opioids have been explored as options by some. There's a megathread for opioids, and BDO is discussed somewhere on the forum. But, both are subject to only moderate reliability for reasons discussed in the opioid megathread. Namely, variance in personal tolerance and the relatively poor quality of drugs in illicit markets. Again, I can't recommend them. I'm only sharing information; I only recommend PPH drugs.

If you have any drugs in mind I'd be happy to share what I know of its pharmacology and what one could expect from it.

If PPH drugs are inaccessible, I would recommend considering alternatives to drug poisonings. Methods such as partial hanging or guns come to mind. Sedative drugs like alcohol can always be combined to reduce discomfort, pain, anxiety, and SI.

As always, be sure to deliberate this decision thoroughly, and - if it's not too late to consider it or you haven't already tried - I encourage exhausting options for treatment or remedying of personal scenarios. A pragmatic approach to decisions on dying will always be of benefit :)

Mileage will vary and I'm in no place to know what is best for any individual.

 

[sauan]

The PPH mentions that you can take it orally at the same dose; 20g.

Thank you for answer.
Are you sure that it's 20g? The 2022 edition of Peaceful Pill Essentials mentions 10g?

 

[Rhizomorph1]

Thank you for answer.
Are you sure that it's 20g? The 2022 edition of Peaceful Pill Essentials mentions 10g?

Yes, follow what the PPH says.

My bad, I got SN confused with it.

 

[rotciv]

Thank you for answer.
Are you sure that it's 20g? The 2022 edition of Peaceful Pill Essentials mentions 10g?

Given user experiences here, published articles and ld50 of thiopental in relation to pentobarbital, I think the PPE aimed at a number that was too low. Thiopental is less than half as potent as N orally.

 

[Endisclose]

Given user experiences here, published articles and ld50 of thiopental in relation to pentobarbital, I think the PPE aimed at a number that was too low. Thiopental is half as potent as N orally, at most.

But I remember the study you shared.. of the lady in the bathtub.. mentioning about 3.5 gm per 75 pounds necessary to ctb if I am not mistaken. And the pph advises 10 gm in 20 ampules of 500 mg. Shouldn't that cover the person of average weight? I am around 155 pounds so according to that study 7gm should enough..?

 

[rotciv]

But I remember the study you shared.. of the lady in the bathtub.. mentioning about 3.5 gm per 75 pounds necessary to ctb if I am not mistaken. And the pph advises 10 gm in 20 ampules of 500 mg. Shouldn't that cover the person of average weight? I am around 155 pounds so according to that study 7gm should enough..?

By rectal administration.

 

[Endisclose]

By rectal administration.

Ah yes the study was by rectal route. But the pph I have from year 2022 mentions 10 gm (20 ampoules of 500 mg) as amount required to ctb by oral route @Rhizomorph1 mentions 20 g.. I wonder if they've upgraded it in a newer version or if I am making some other basic mistake again..

 

[Dayrain]

Ah yes the study was by rectal route. But the pph I have from year 2022 mentions 10 gm (20 ampoules of 500 mg) as amount required to ctb by oral route @Rhizomorph1 mentions 20 g.. I wonder if they've upgraded it in a newer version or if I am making some other basic mistake again..

Rhizomorph1 corrected oneself. @Endisclose

Yes, follow what the PPH says.

My bad, I got SN confused with it.

 

[Endisclose]

Rhizomorph1 corrected oneself. @Endisclose

Got it just read his second post.. Sorry for overlooking it.. I am feeling very groggy today as I didn't have proper sleep last night and got up early in the morning .

 

[unabletocope]

Hi again

I'm considering chloroquine instead of amitriptyline now. Following it in guidance with the PPH, would you say it is reliable in provoking cardiac arrest like amitriptyline? Also, what are the risks of chloroquine attempts that don't work?

Many thanks

 

[mexican_patty]

Hi, would about 30 or 60 clonazepam pills combined with alcohol be enough to provoke death? I've never taken clonazepam and I don't drink alcohol. Thanks

 

[henry22]

Will a beta blocker overdose with alcohol be painful? Will it work? I have about 70 g of propranolol.

 

[Rubypie41]

I'd check out the Peaceful Pill Handbook's section on using amitriptylene. Specifically, the section on cardiac switches. It will have dosage information.

Amitriptylene causes death by cardiac failure, which is quite painful alone. But, you can combine it with a drug that will result in unconsciousness (general anesthesia) so you don't experience or feel any pain from the cardiac failure.

Unlike other drugs which have an unreliable odds of inducing cardiac failure, amitriptylene is quite reliable at inducing fatal cardiac events if taken at the correct dosage alongside an anti-emetic.

Again, definitely read the PPH as it has dosage advice from a doctor and discusses which drugs can be used for general anesthesia alongside it + timeline protocols. You will also need an anti-emetic such as metoclopramide so you don't vomit.

Hope this helps and you find peace in living or dying

What's your opinion on the DDMA protocol but without Morphine?

Seems strange that Amitriptyline alone will cause a reliable and peaceful death if combined with Benzos, but wouldn't if be even more reliable if combined with Digoxin?

My understanding is the Morphine and Benzos are to put you in a deep sleep, whisky the Amitriptyline and Digoxin create the cardiac switch that results in death.

Surely Benzos + Amitriptyline + Digoxin would be better than Benzos and Amitriptyline alone?

If you don't have the Morphine for the DDMA but do have the required amount of Benzos, Digoxin and Amitriptyline then that would also work?

Couldn't you just take more Benzos and Zopiclone to compensate for not having the required Morphine?