What are your thoughts on veganism?

[disillusion]

I don't know about others body but it does not work for me.

 

[YearlongPerformance]

This thread seems similar to the thread on murder to me.

While there will always be reasons why we should not kill and eat other animals, practically it is much easier to go along with tradition.

 

[charlotte_]

I totally respect vegetarians and I understand its concept. It is true that we shouldn't enforce suffering on other innocent lives, even if it is of animals. But again, the principles of the world isn't fair in the first place. Animals kill each other for food too, and killing plants to me still counts as killing lives. The only difference is that plants can't express pain, can't scream, nor can it try to escape. so ig im really neutral, but I respect everyone's view on this topic. It's your choice after all

 

[OceanBlue]

It's obvious veganism is the right way, it's a philosophy of causing the least harm. Seems simple enough, but it will take 400 years or so for the world to adopt it. Humans are not big on empathy, all you can do is watch them come up with every excuse under the sun to avoid doing the right thing.

This lifestyle existed long before the western term was coined. The meat and dairy industries (and commodification of animals) spread with western colonialism, together with other Ls like christianity, heteronormativity, diseases etc.

Animal rights activists are trying to bring this change about sooner, but get mocked and ridiculed when all they're saying is that we shouldn't harm animals if we can avoid it.

Nowadays to survive most of us go to stores.. all it takes is to pick a different product off the shelf and this will save a sentient being from being born just to get slaughtered. Worth the effort in my book.

 

[Heavenbound]

I'm vegetarian, almost vegan. I don't have much empathy for humans, but my heart bleeds for animals. I think veganism is a good thing, but at least in my area, it can be incredibly expensive. Most people eat meat, and that really is not going to change. I can understand the passion that protesters have, but all in all the extreme protesters make us look bad, and turn people off. It's a really difficult thing to try to change peoples beliefs when it comes to the food they eat.

 

[Stylite]

"My conscience wants vegetarianism to win over the world. And my subconscious is yearning for a piece of juicy meat. But what do I want?" - Anatoliy Solinitsyn, Writer

 

[Float On Okay]

I do eat cow, I am not proud.

 

[Andro_USYD]

I understand vegetarians for reasons of not wanting to harm animals but I don't get vegans personally. Honey is meant to be eaten from Bee's and milk is suppose to be drank. I don't think the cows mind nor the bee's but it's just my view

 

[FormerlyFe(IV)]

I understand vegetarians for reasons of not wanting to harm animals but I don't get vegans personally.

Animals can still be harmed even if kept alive. Eggs and milk are often made in abusive conditions. I think the same logic applies

Honey is meant to be eaten from Bee's

by bees

and milk is suppose to be drank

by calves

Not to say we shouldn't consume honey or milk or eggs, but what do you mean by meant to be eaten/drank? The bees and cows were minding their own business before humans invented farming.

 

[synthcadia]

i am not a vegan, i cannot be vegan because of dietary issues. (i need protein, best source of protein for me is meat.)

now, i mean veganism is fine as long as you don't shove it down people's throats or judge other people.

 

[Andro_USYD]

Ok Well thanks for enlightening me on the vegan arguments. I could go as far as vegetarianism personally. I think with some animals it isn't too unpleasant people stealing their natural made resources e.g. a chicken can keep laying eggs which can be stolen without harm to the animal. Afterall the animals are still being fed and im sure the calves are still drinking some milk or at least something to help them grow into healthy adults. I've personally got a beehive at my dad's farm in rural Australia and we're careful not to hurt any of the bee's when taking some of the honey . I disagree with farmers who do these cruel practices on their animals but I think only vegetarianism convinced me

 

[angel31]

Everyone should eat what they want, but a vegan diet is much more moral then a meat based one (not vegan myself sadly, only vegetarian)

 

[DynamicDepression]

Ok Well thanks for enlightening me on the vegan arguments. I could go as far as vegetarianism personally. I think with some animals it isn't too unpleasant people stealing their natural made resources e.g. a chicken can keep laying eggs which can be stolen without harm to the animal. Afterall the animals are still being fed and im sure the calves are still drinking some milk or at least something to help them grow into healthy adults. I've personally got a beehive at my dad's farm in rural Australia and we're careful not to hurt any of the bee's when taking some of the honey . I disagree with farmers who do these cruel practices on their animals but I think only vegetarianism convinced me

These are the industry-standard practices for eggs and dairy.

 

[Andro_USYD]

Holy shit this is so unethical!..,.. U might've just convinced me to become a vegan however on my farm with my dad we are highly ethical to the animals. Thankyou for sharing this resource however because that is truly horrible for the animals I feel so bad . This has been highly convincing, and Australia (my country) is setting up these horrid conditions for the chickens!?

 

[Touhou]

I love meat!!!

 

[ethereal.angel]

I'm curious about what you think about veganism. Perhaps the people of this forum, who are clearly well-acquainted with suffering, and unpopular opinions for that matter, would more readily extend empathy to those of other species experiencing never-ending nightmarish torture in factory farms and elsewhere? Or maybe the hopeless and meaningless state of affairs prevents you from caring and/or making changes in your life?

never tried being vegan, though, i'd say i never really had a good nor bad view on it. i don't mind if you're vegan or not, infact, i admire you if you are.

 

[Marine]

I'm curious about what you think about veganism. Perhaps the people of this forum, who are clearly well-acquainted with suffering, and unpopular opinions for that matter, would more readily extend empathy to those of other species experiencing never-ending nightmarish torture in factory farms and elsewhere? Or maybe the hopeless and meaningless state of affairs prevents you from caring and/or making changes in your life?

I care and I'm mostly vegan (I still occasionally eat dairy unfortunately, work in progress).

 

[SovietSuicide]

Morality is just made up, I don't really care. Any way humans try to do things there will always be negative consequences. You are all on this website using devices produced with child slave labour.

 

[Costrecce]

Respect, but not for me

 

[kevinj430]

I went on a raw food diet for 6 months only eating fruits, nuts, seeds, & vegetables. Never felt better in my life. Did it for health reasons and weight loss more than my care for animals

 

[polka slide]

it's cool. if I had enough self control id be a vegan for sure. i don't really enjoy meat anyway but it's the fact that so many products have something from animals in them. also, I think that people who shit on vegans are so stupid. like how shallow do you have to be to judge someone for not eating animals? it sounds stupid to compare those kinds of people to racists but it's quite similar. idk not really crazy deep message abt animals being murdered cuz i haven't really done research on that but yeah.

 

[cosifantutti]

I became vegetarian because of animals suffering.

 

[OrphicEnd]

Veganism isn't the most optimal, organic eggs (from hens living happily to summarize) should be included in the diet, it is a sufficient source of B12 which does no harm to the animal.
Besides that, there's not much to say, there are a ton of studies that show this diet is viable for everyone, it's hard to argue with the science. This reduces pollution and nutrition problems. Indeed, to produce meat, you need animals, which you feed and water, which pollute and require antibiotics which sometimes cause serious diseases to appear and as more food is needed to produce meat, we're deforesting the Amazon. Meat increases heart problems and diabetes. The key is not to be hypocritical and say that we love animals but then decapitate animals and eat them.
We also have to consider the pros and cons, is a moment of pleasure worth a lifetime of suffering for someone else? To say that this is life is ironic when it comes to going to get food in a store where there is much more than just meat.
It's a bit reminiscent of the choice debate. A choice contrary to a decision does not include anyone, eating meat includes other beings, just like committing suicide in a very violent way involves those who will be traumatized and those who will have to clean up.
The world is already violent enough, let's try not to generate more unnecessary violence when other alternatives are possible.

 

[DarkRange55]

I can only speak to this from a health perspective, not a moral one. And whatever you choose to do is fine. I do think factory-farming is horrible and cruel and inhumane. I do agree.

Read Omnivore's Dilemma and read Diet Cults.
I ate vegan for a year and I tried being fruitarian for 1-2 months.
I think we should all really question the way we treat animals and if we eat animals. Again, I'm not using that word "vegan" because I don't really know what vegan means. I think it means you also make other choices about I don't know leather and animal rights and all that sorts of stuff. And its a word that has a lot of baggage. So I always use plant-based because thats really what I was doing and its just something simpler to talk about.

I worked on a famous organic sustainable farm for two years and lived with an amish community for 2.5 years before that so I may not be the best one to pontificate on this subject.

I know hunters sometimes get a bad rap because people think of hunting as trophy hunting, as killing animals needlessly. I see it as something we used to do as hunter-gatherers. I see people use it to control animal populations in areas of America that have to be controlled. And maybe it's something we do as humans and maybe it's something that is natural. I also think its something we must do carnally and I kind of want to explore whats happening. I know people that only hunt elk and they only eat the elk meat that they kill for their families. I find that to be a really interesting potentially sustainable, potentially non-carbon footprint way of being able to eat meat and maybe eat the right kind of meat and do it in a way thats ethical and okay. But I've also heard it's an incredible way to really connect with the environment. Hunting for me is something that I've always just been curious, I've been kind of drawn to that intuitive as something that feels like as a human being I need to explore.









data from 175 countries and territories - used various statistical methods to "explore and compare the correlations between newborn life expectancy … life expectancy at five years of life … and intakes of meat, and carbohydrate crops, respectively. The established risk factors to life expectancy—caloric intake, urbanization, obesity and education levels—were included as the potential confounders."
The researchers found that worldwide, meat intake was associated with a longer life. "This relationship remained significant when influences of caloric intake, urbanization, obesity, education and carbohydrate crops were statistically controlled." By contrast, consumption of carbohydrates had a weak but negative correlation with life expectancy.
in Sardinia, Mr. Buettner's first noted blue zone, meat consumption is higher among the long-lived peasants living in the mountains than those living in the valleys, according to a 2015 study (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25369832/) published in
the European Journal of Clinical Nutrition.
For Okinawa, his second listed blue zone, Mr. Buettner insists that "Older Okinawans have eaten a plant-based diet most of their lives. Their meals of stir-fried vegetables, sweet potatoes and tofu are high in nutrients and low in calories." However, that's not what researchers found in a 1992 study (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1407826/) comparing the diets of mainland Japanese
and those living on the island of Okinawa.
Moving on to the Nicoya Peninsula of Costa Rica—an area teaming with cattle, goats, and pigs—folks there also love their lard. A 2013 study (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25426140/) of the region found that the older Nicoyans ate more fish, more meat, and more saturated fat (from lard) (https://nourishingtraditions.com/true-blue-zones-costa-rica/) than inhabi
tants of other regions in Costa Rica. They are also fond of a stew based on organ meats called "sustancia."
an important study (https://www.theguardian.com/society/2005/feb/22/food.sciencenews), described in The Guardian, carried out almost twenty years ago which showed just how important meat is for growing children.
the International Journal of General Medicine published a study (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35228814/) that was easy to miss, as no major media publication reported on "Total Meat Intake is Associated with Life Expectancy: A Cross-Sectional Data Analysis of 175 Contemporary Populations,"
by Wenpeng You and his team of researchers.

 

[leavingthesoultrap]

I like the ethnical idea but the diet is unnatural. I've tried it when the popularity of it peaked (10 years ago). And I haven't felt good on it. I am already low in iron as an omnivore and quitting meat doesn't help that at all.
And no, plants don't have the same nutrients as animal products. The bioavailability of plant based nutrients is way lower. Plants also have chemicals called anti nutrients that block nutrient absorbing.
Our gut is very similar to a dog's one it's short, not made to deal with tons of fiber, that's why a lot of vegans develop ibs.
Most vegans quit veganism. Very little vegans are able to keep it up.

 

[The Ninth God]

It doesn't makes sense in my eyes; it's proven that plants are capable of feeling pain and communicate immediate danger to others, which was shown to be a form of empathy. Humans tortures plants while cultivating them; they're forced to grow at an unnatural rate, out of seasons and pumped full of chemicals. Moreover, humans are omnivores and, while you can find many vitamins and minerals elsewhere, some essential ones doesn't exists in plants at all or are so low that it becomes problematic to get a good intake, like B12, zinc, iron, proteins and calcium. Both plants and animals shouldn't be eaten, but what you will eat then? Rocks? Air? Life is not a fairytale, humans cannot change the fact that they need to kill to sustain themselves, but sure they can change how they treat their "food" by killing it after giving them a good life, be it long or short, and a clean death. Any wild animal have a chance to do so, even if they die in painful ways most of the times, that should apply in captivity too.

 

[Little_Suzy]

All living things suffer! Antinatalism should not be confused with veganism.

Do you know the origin of your "plant-based food?" It's a workforce that includes children and mothers with babies strapped on their backs. Consider the working conditions of coffee plantation workers in Colombia, as well as tea farmers in India and China. Agriculture, particularly in "Open Borders" America, involves human trafficking.

 

[Ironweed]

I think it is a bad idea for children, but once you're an adult, you do you.

There have been numerous societies that have lived primarily (East African Bantus) or almost exclusively (Inuit and Mongol and I believe Saami) on animal flesh and nothing else. If humans aren't designed to eat meat, how were these societies possible?

I will say things like the vegans on YouTube are some of the worst advertisements for the lifestyle it is possible to imagine. Especially when they put their kids on camera. The kids uniformly look malnourished, underdeveloped and all around frail. Every case I've seen short for their age as well. They look worse off than children raised on the generally horrible typical American diet. Why is that?

 

[The Ninth God]

I think it is a bad idea for children, but once you're an adult, you do you.

There have been numerous societies that have lived primarily (East African Bantus) or almost exclusively (Inuit and Mongol and I believe Saami) on animal flesh and nothing else. If humans aren't designed to eat meat, how were these societies possible?

I will say things like the vegans on YouTube are some of the worst advertisements for the lifestyle it is possible to imagine. Especially when they put their kids on camera. The kids uniformly look malnourished, underdeveloped and all around frail. Every case I've seen short for their age as well. They look worse off than children raised on the generally horrible typical American diet. Why is that?

If you eat everything from an animal you get almost EVERY essential nutrient, anything else is found in fish, eggs and dairy. Sure, you need to snap bones and suck them, eat many organs or eggs raw, but compared to plants there's no single nutrient lacking from such diet.

 

[wildflowers1996]

I think it's great and I think everyone should be vegan, I'm too depressed to make the effort but also too poor to afford to be vegan but I also love plants just the same so the thought of deforestation for farming makes me sad, I love trees so much lol.

more plants will die if someone eats meat than if they are vegan, because plants are needed to feed the animals, more trees will be cut down to make room for animal agriculture

there are quite a lot of myths on this thread - acti-veg.com will debunk a lot of them