Story Work will set you free

[Deleted member 25508]

Not sure if this post is worth the disproportionately huge effort it took to write it, but there's no point in joining this site just to muck up other people's threads, so here goes.

I've lurked for a few months before joining, reading about methods and people's experiences. I appreciate the heartfelt disposition of the people in this community and the unsugared honesty of their confessions. Most who write here are in deep trouble. Crippling depression, chronic pain, degenerative illness, financial destitution, domestic and sexual abuse, the works. Just about every misfortune that could befall a person is represented. I don't have any of that.

There are many complaints about the burden of having to pretend. Pretend to be happy when you're sad. Pretend you care when you don't. Pretend you don't care, when you do. I have the opposite problem. Being fake is easy and being genuine is hard. I can roleplay just about anything, as long as I don't have to reveal what I actually feel or think. I've ever revealed my genuine thoughts and feelings in person to anyone in my life. Not once. On rare occasions, I've tried posting them anonymously online. That produced me some awkward responses. This forum is no different. Maybe this one thread will be?

I feel like an alien in exile. People are like a different, disguisting species. This is not a philosophical standpoint. It's the physical things. The way they look, move, smell and sound. It's intolerable. It's the same feeling I'd guess most others get when they see an extremely enlarged picture of some slimy, wriggly slug or other crawlie. Nobody can or should be engaged with. Nothing feels real. And I don't have anything to blame this on. It was like this to start with. I'd escape into the mountains and never meet a person again, if my body was hardy enough for such a life. It grieves me deeply that it isn't.

So I've been evading people and their unwelcome affections ever since I gained self-awareness. I don't touch or get touched by anyone at all except at the hairdresser. People fill their lives with each other, and since I can't do that, instead I fill life with work. I used to work 100% and study 200% until I got five different degrees. I thought that would make me look diligent to employers, but I was advised to leave out at least two of those degrees from my resume. Apparently it didn't exactly make me look diligent, it rather made me look disturbed. So now I don't study anymore, instead I just work as long as I'm awake, without holidays or vacations. Except for maybe an hour in the evening for relaxing at home. I'm a final stage workaholic. There are no 12 step programs because ain't nobody wasting good working hours on that. Seeing my monthly results feels pretty great. Almost as great as coming home and having a little time to myself. But not too much time, or I'd derealize completely.

A bit of background is that I moved from East Asia to Europe with my immediate family when I was about 11, with a large extended family left in Asia. Since then, my parents have left, but I'm still here at 28. Now I don't have anyone here. No family, no friends, nothing. There's no bonding with people for me, and that doesn't bother me. It does bother me that it doesn't bother me. Being 100% alone is a very weak position to be in. It turns the simplest practical things into a menace and in the long term it will be my undoing. I don't want to enjoy it. But I enjoy it in the same way some people enjoy alcohol and heroin, so there won't be "just go home" or "just find someone" for me. Being sober is worse than the addiction.

All that being said, I'm not suicidal, at least not currently, but I reflect a lot on the topic of suicide. I enjoy coming up with more or less fanciful methods that would make death an exciting experience. My life is stable now, but it will take very little for everything to fall apart, and when that happens, I need to have something up my sleeve.

I'm not the only one here like this, am I? Come on.

You should play Saya no Uta if you haven't already.

I understand what you're talking about completely. You might have schizoid personality disorder or something along those lines.

 

[ClairyFairy]

It's more about emotional detachment than intelligence. I noticed people really have a hard time cutting ties with parents, even abusive ones, because they're still major people in your life that mean a lot to you, even if it's a lot of bad things. It's a lot simpler to get away if you only ever viewed parents as food and shelter providers. Then, as soon as you can afford your own stuff, there's no reason to stick around people who think they can dictate your life to you.

It's very effective though, isn't it? Still alive just because can't fit those suicide plans into my Outlook calendar.

I used to play some MMOs in high school, but I wasn't very competitive. For me it was more a glorified chatroom, and the gameplay was just for the immersion. Low level areas in World of Warcraft were really comfy, especially the undead one. I used to cast water walking and run around on that foggy lake outside of the undead city, it was meditative. Good times.

What you say about farming is on the spot, especially the part where you say you were glad you dropped out. You must have noticed that you're not really playing for the enjoyment, but to satisfy an obsession. Increasing levels, or gold, or any other easily quantifiable results. That's the same appeal as work is to workaholics. I don't work around the clock because I enjoy work. I work around the clock because I'm obsessed and can't tear myself away. I can't enjoy a vacation because I'll spend the whole vacation thinking about all the hours I could have billed if I had stayed at work.

It really sucks to fail your ambitions, especially if those ambitions were realistic and achievable and you did your best to get there. They say "fall down seven times, stand up eight", but I really don't get how that works. I know myself well enough to understand that if I fall down once I'm 100% going to stay down. That's sort of why I'm on this site. Gotta prepare for the inevitable. I might fall down tomorrow or in 40 years, but it's going to happen.

I never claimed having intelligence. It's other people who said that. Obviously they're wrong because I don't understand your complaint. You don't think the message on the gate to Auschwitz, with everything that entails, is a good analogy to modern wage slavery?

At least it was still happiness, even if temporary. Even if you don't like working itself, it can provide context for other things.

No I don't. I think it's sick and wholly inappropriate to akin yourself to those persecuted by the nazis. For one you're not under threat of death and you get paid

 

[Makko]

Well, actually it's what the Nazi regime used as a slogan on the front gates of the concentration camps. "Arbeit macht frei'" in German. Hate it. Would never use it, not even as a joke. Yet, I like working.

P.S. Same here with dogs - for some reason, I always related well to all animals, especially dogs, ever since I was 3. Love them so much, regardless of breed. They love me back, even the most aggressive.

You really are quite interesting. I was wondering if you intentionally used the title, knowing where it comes from... then I saw the other posts. Well, I think I get you are rather detached and very direct. I also appreciate your writing proficiency and self irony. English not being my first language, I cannot compete. But I would advise you to consider sensitivities on matters like this. And no, it is NOT a good analogy - people were starved to death and horribly tortured there, including kids. You can always quit and find another job. You get paid. You sleep in a comfortable bed. Please do not mock the suffering of others. It's not a matter of feelings, it's respect.

No I don't. I think it's sick and wholly inappropriate to akin yourself to those persecuted by the nazis. For one you're not under threat of death and you get paid

I see. What you both say does make sense now that you elaborated it. Westerners have the tendency to get seizures the moment you imply anything nazi-related, so I tend to take their comments on the subject with a grain of salt. I don't feel any particular way about it, not because my personal morality is this or that way, but because it's not a loaded issue where I'm from. The only things that make it into Asian schoolbooks are the "cool" stuff, not so much the nasty stuff. Western schoolbooks, in contrast, love belaboring their nasty stuff a great deal. It was a shock to me.

A related piece of trivia (I don't doubt that the kid got a good grade):

Spoiler

I see. Well then maybe I am able to relate. I try to stay away from that particular mmo because I can't deny the possibility of getting hooked up again.

No, the farming part wasn't for enjoyment. Though the results were enjoyable, the overall experience wasn't. I enjoyed somewhat similar things that you did. Explore the world, talk with people, spell effects. The competition was definitely not part of the joy.

What made me drop it out wasn't a willpower, determination or anything of that sort. It was envy and indignation. I saw another guy who farmed with 7 bots (at time I only could maintain 3 because of inferior PC stats). I felt frustrated that someone can do so much and I will never be able to outfarm them. And if I can't be the best or even close to it, I might as well not try at all.

Similar thing happened on another server. Some guy farmed 3x more mobs at 3x faster time than I did. I figured out how powerful donation items are, and dropped out. The same envy and indignation, and comparison with those who are more resourceful.

I don't know how helpful that would be for you, but who knows.

Yeah, envy is tough to handle and a very unpleasant sensation. I find it a motivation factor, wanting to clear my mind of envy and greed makes me try harder, so that I can finally get the things I want and mellow out. It works -- I'm mellowing out bit by bit -- but it's slow. At the same time, I can't afford to rage quit since I don't think I'd ever pick up the pieces if I do. I suspect I'm the sort that doesn't glue back together after breaking.

You should play Saya no Uta if you haven't already.

I understand what you're talking about completely. You might have schizoid personality disorder or something along those lines.

I'm glad that you can relate. Played that and it struck a chord. I identified with Saya even more so than with the protagonist, though. The reason I barely consume media anymore is because there's no media from that perspective. Maybe I can make some, when I get over myself and finally have some free time. A visual novel or a game featuring a Saya as the protagonist. I'd really love to make something like that. Even if I'm the only one who would want to play it. Can't handle the fact that all movies, shows, games, books, everything is about people running around doing people things. It's so alienating that it makes me sick, and I'm so beastly tired of it that I reject it all. Something is missing and that must change.

 

[StateOfMind]

 

[Makko]

View attachment 59527

Yeah, I posted that one on the first page. There were divided opinions about it.

 

[StateOfMind]

Yeah, I posted that one on the first page. There were divided opinions about it.

Those this expose the true nature of my work efficacy?

 

[Lmd]

Do you feel the same way with animals?

 

[Good4Nothing]

I love my job. I get to make art while watching YouTube videos, and no one complains about it. I come and go as I please, never a word when I'm late. I'm damn good at what I do, so I can get away with a lot. It's the ideal job for me.

But I still want to die. Working ain't living.

 

[Isitmytime]

The only things that make it into Asian schoolbooks are the "cool" stuff, not so much the nasty stuff. Western schoolbooks, in contrast, love belaboring their nasty stuff a great deal. It was a shock to me.

Wow! I had no idea. Very surprising to me, because I had this impression Asian cultures value honor a lot. And what the Nazis did had no honor. Maybe the Asians clicked with the populist messages of Hitler, but they had nothing to do with reality. And btw, I am not a Westerner ))

A related piece of trivia (I don't doubt that the kid got a good grade)

Shocking!

I suspect I'm the sort that doesn't glue back together after breaking.

I guess it depends on age and perspective. I was able to glue myself back a few times but now that I am older I am not so sure I am even interested.

Something is missing and that must change.

Same feeling, the only difference is I think I figured it out. Unfortunately I am not sure I can fix it, so...

 

[Makko]

I spent a lot of time on this forum since I registered and it has affected my work performance this week. It's a surprisingly big time sink. This is giving me anxiety but it's also funny.

Those this expose the true nature of my work efficacy?

You posted the exact same picture as I did, without looking, so maybe you would make an efficient psychic.

Do you feel the same way with animals?

Largely. They're cute on pictures but not so much in reality. If I'm visiting someone who owns a pet, I can enjoy viewing it, that's enough animal interaction for me.

I love my job. I get to make art while watching YouTube videos, and no one complains about it. I come and go as I please, never a word when I'm late. I'm damn good at what I do, so I can get away with a lot. It's the ideal job for me.

But I still want to die. Working ain't living.

Same experience. We're three juniors in my division and I bill more than the other two put together. Everyone loves me and is eager to kiss up. Seniors compete to get me on their cases. It fills your ego and your wallet, but not the void in your soul.

Wow! I had no idea. Very surprising to me, because I had this impression Asian cultures value honor a lot. And what the Nazis did had no honor. Maybe the Asians clicked with the populist messages of Hitler, but they had nothing to do with reality. And btw, I am not a Westerner ))

Asians don't know much about Hitler. That's what I'm trying to say. He's a culturally and geographically distant historical figure like Napoleon and Caesar. All I remember from my middle school history textbooks is pictures of him and his officers looking fancy, and descriptions of military stuff. I'm sure there was some vague mumble mumble about concentration camps, but those were used by all sides, so it wasn't something to be upset by. My western textbooks instead had full-page pictures with piles of dead children and long descriptions of war crimes. A closer perspective, so to speak. This perspective is not relevant in Asia. Just like my Asian books had a detailed history about the different Chinese dynasties and how historically important this progression is. The western books were content with brief mentions of some vague blob called China, somewhere waaaay over there. I'm sure you get it.

Same feeling, the only difference is I think I figured it out. Unfortunately I am not sure I can fix it, so...

There's no fixing anything, only coping with the unfixableness of it all. To be free from this torment I shall master the forbidden ways of cope. Or die trying.

 

[fixitinpost]

I'm not fit to live like that. I've burned out twice. Once during my final year at university. Another a couple of years back, when I was the sole sysadmin of mission-critical systems with over 300,000 monthly users. There was no time to be sick. I took calls while in bed with fever, because no one else could do it. I never traveled far without my laptop, fearing the feeling of helplessness if something blew up at work. I ended up on sick leave due to exhaustion (still taking calls), but dragged myself back to work because they'd finally hired someone to help out and I needed to get him up to speed. I just sat there, staring at my monitor for hours at a time.

I used have passion and commitment to work. Now, I dread it. The guilt and humiliation of being unable to deliver anything useful.

 

[Makko]

I'm not fit to live like that. I've burned out twice. Once during my final year at university. Another a couple of years back, when I was the sole sysadmin of mission-critical systems with over 300,000 monthly users. There was no time to be sick. I took calls while in bed with fever, because no one else could do it. I never traveled far without my laptop, fearing the feeling of helplessness if something blew up at work. I ended up on sick leave due to exhaustion (still taking calls), but dragged myself back to work because they'd finally hired someone to help out and I needed to get him up to speed. I just sat there, staring at my monitor for hours at a time.

I used have passion and commitment to work. Now, I dread it. The guilt and humiliation of being unable to deliver anything useful.

I was like that when I just started, and realised that you need time for taking care of yourself no matter how much you think you can work. Eating, sleeping and grooming are holy and take priority over anything. I'm pretty frail so I'd be physically ruined right away if I didn't observe the self-maintenance rituals. If a job doesn't allow you to do that, it's not sustainable no matter how tough you think you are. So I definitely relate.

 

[Isitmytime]

I used have passion and commitment to work. Now, I dread it. The guilt and humiliation of being unable to deliver anything useful.

Sorry for that. Sounds so familiar... maybe you just need a break, but what do I know... after all, for me it replaced one problem with another.

 

[Good4Nothing]

Sorry for that. Sounds so familiar... maybe you just need a break, but what do I know... after all, for me it replaced one problem with another.

That's the thing, though. You can't take a break. The moment you stop treading water, you sink and drown.

 

[Makko]

I only billed 2 hours today. I had more than double the amount of work planned... ah well, I'll just have to do it tomorrow, on top of all the other things I have planned then.

 

[blue_muse]

In the minority saying this, not disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing, I think distracting oneself with work or study doesn't quite eliminate the issue/s but increases the likelihood of the problem/s resurfacing in a sudden way. It's a bit like grief, for some it's a way of learning to live with it rather than moving on from the emotion.

 

[Makko]

In the minority saying this, not disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing, I think distracting oneself with work or study doesn't quite eliminate the issue/s but increases the likelihood of the problem/s resurfacing in a sudden way. It's a bit like grief, for some it's a way of learning to live with it rather than moving on from the emotion.

I don't disagree with anything you're saying. Workaholism is really not different from alcoholism. It pushes everything into the background while you're working (drunk) and when you're free (sober) you find that the problems have only piled up taller, so you go back to working (drinking) to push the pile into the background again. And so it goes, over and over.

 

[blue_muse]

I don't disagree with anything you're saying. Workaholism is really not different from alcoholism. It pushes everything into the background while you're working (drunk) and when you're free (sober) you find that the problems have only piled up taller, so you go back to working (drinking) to push the pile into the background again. And so it goes, over and over.

Excellent analogy Makko. Makes it all the more confusing that healthcare professionals in the psychological field, actively encourage their patients to be workaholics.

 

[Makko]

Excellent analogy Makko. Makes it all the more confusing that healthcare professionals in the psychological field, actively encourage their patients to be workaholics.

Working gives you a routine that puts a lid on your mental health stuff while (purportedly) not hurting you or anyone around you. What the "healthcare professionals" don't say is that monotony is not the same as stability, and that the card house can come crashing down at any time for the silliest of reasons, or even for no reason at all. That's why I'm on this site. I need to be prepared for the crashing down. Theoretically I still have 40 years of working in front of me and there's no way I'm going to make it that long. Something's got to give.

 

[blue_muse]

Working gives you a routine that puts a lid on your mental health stuff while (purportedly) not hurting you or anyone around you. What the "healthcare professionals" don't say is that monotony is not the same as stability, and that the card house can come crashing down at any time for the silliest of reasons, or even for no reason at all. That's why I'm on this site. I need to be prepared for the crashing down. Theoretically I still have 40 years of working in front of me and there's no way I'm going to make it that long. Something's got to give.

Card house nearly crashed down when studying intensely several years ago. Makes you wonder what pearls of wisdom they have when burnout sets in; suppose then it's our fault.

 

[Makko]

 

[Makko]

I'm allowing myself a few hours of weekend today. I've billed 60 hours this week and I want 70 at least, but I can manage that and still have some free time. Feels good. Work-life balance is panning out.

 

[Makko]

 

[aneurysm]

@Makko, do you have professional advices for us

 

[Makko]

@Makko, do you have professional advices for us

My timeless yuppie wisdoms:

1. Kiss up to superiors and clients.
2. Do more than anyone else but only on the condition of more rewards. Never do more for free.
3. Never do anything that you can't take credit for.
4. Delegate as much as possible to inferiors and take credit for their work.
6. Never take the side of anyone whom your superiors dislike.
7. If any clients or colleagues are making your life difficult, defame them in the eyes of your superiors.

 

[aneurysm]

My timeless yuppie wisdoms:

1. Kiss up to superiors and clients.
2. Do more than anyone else but only on the condition of more rewards. Never do more for free.
3. Never do anything that you can't take credit for.
4. Delegate as much as possible to inferiors and take credit for their work.
6. Never take the side of anyone whom your superiors dislike.
7. If any clients or colleagues are making your life difficult, defame them in the eyes of your superiors.

well, that's unexpected haha

but... don't you risk being hated by everyone else by doing all of the above? And if you do that to them... I guess they can do the same to you? (like defaming you, delegating work to you, taking credit for your work etc...).

also, could you explain the second and the third point?

 

[Makko]

well, that's unexpected haha

but... don't you risk being hated by everyone else by doing all of the above? And if you do that to them... I guess they can do the same to you? (like defaming you, delegating work to you, taking credit for your work etc...).

also, could you explain the second and the third point?

Becoming a manically laughing cartoon villain is not one of the advices. You do all of what I said with a sweet smile, reasonable explanations and many words of compassion. You also pick your fights and don't do things that make you look bad, but I thought that was so obvious that I didn't write it out. At my job I'm not disliked by anyone whose opinion matters.

2. You do your basic tasks for your basic wage. You can also signal to your superiors that you can do more than your basic share, if you get more in return. If you're going to move mountains you want to be rewarded, with money, benefits, workplace privileges, networking opportunities etc. Workers who can move mountains are rare and superiors will be prepared to pamper them to keep them around.

3. All your effort must be put into things that others (clients, colleagues, bosses) can appreciate you for. At any workplace there will be people who work themselves to the bone doing important but invisible tasks and are kicked around like useless dogs by everyone, because no one realises the effort they put in and the good that they do. Don't be that person. Let someone else be this person.

 

[aneurysm]

Becoming a manically laughing cartoon villain is not one of the advices. You do all of what I said with a sweet smile, reasonable explanations and many words of compassion. You also pick your fights and don't do things that make you look bad, but I thought that was so obvious that I didn't write it out. At my job I'm not disliked by anyone whose opinion matters.

2. You do your basic tasks for your basic wage. You can also signal to your superiors that you can do more than your basic share, if you get more in return. If you're going to move mountains you want to be rewarded, with money, benefits, workplace privileges, networking opportunities etc. Workers who can move mountains are rare and superiors will be prepared to pamper them to keep them around.

3. All your effort must be put into things that others (clients, colleagues, bosses) can appreciate you for. At any workplace there will be people who work themselves to the bone doing important but invisible tasks and are kicked around like useless dogs by everyone, because no one realises the effort they put in and the good that they do. Don't be that person. Let someone else be this person.

it's much clearer now! Yep, makes sense. Thank you

 

[fixitinpost]

My timeless yuppie wisdoms:

1. Kiss up to superiors and clients.
2. Do more than anyone else but only on the condition of more rewards. Never do more for free.
3. Never do anything that you can't take credit for.
4. Delegate as much as possible to inferiors and take credit for their work.
6. Never take the side of anyone whom your superiors dislike.
7. If any clients or colleagues are making your life difficult, defame them in the eyes of your superiors.

With all due respect, you're being ironic with some of these, right? Like, at least 4 and 7. Because that's some anti-social behavior if I ever saw it. I've worked with people like this, and it was a toxic experience for all. Those who cared about appearances put on a smile and did everything you suggest, somehow thinking people wouldn't see through it. But it was super fucking obvious. If they were someone that I didn't have to work with, I'd just stay clear of them. If they were someone I ended up working with - or even worse, working for - it was a good sign that time had come to get out of dodge.

I've worked on the recruitment side of things at several of my employers, and I got the sense that some of these traits as highly undesirable in a candidate. We rejected a number of people who were highly skilled and disciplined because they came off as a person that wouldn't be working for the team. I do agree that you should assert some boundaries with the company. Don't do what I did and let your own sense of responsibility go underappreciated and end up breaking your back. But also don't throw your coworkers under the bus. There is a line in the middle that allows you to succeed without setting others up to fail. This doesn't even classify as just career advice. It's life advice.

 

[aneurysm]

With all due respect, you're being ironic with some of these, right? Like, at least 4 and 7. Because that's some anti-social behavior if I ever saw it. I've worked with people like this, and it was a toxic experience for all. Those who cared about appearances put on a smile and did everything you suggest, somehow thinking people wouldn't see through it. But it was super fucking obvious. If they were someone that I didn't have to work with, I'd just stay clear of them. If they were someone I ended up working with - or even worse, working for - it was a good sign that time had come to get out of dodge.

I've worked on the recruitment side of things at several of my employers, and I got the sense that some of these traits as highly undesirable in a candidate. We rejected a number of people who were highly skilled and disciplined because they came off as a person that wouldn't be working for the team. I do agree that you should assert some boundaries with the company. Don't do what I did and let your own sense of responsibility go underappreciated and end up breaking your back. But also don't throw your coworkers under the bus. There is a line in the middle that allows you to succeed without setting others up to fail. This doesn't even classify as just career advice. It's life advice.

What about you @fixitinpost, do you have any other professional advices we could use? :)