Story Alienated by everything

[KuriGohan&Kamehameha]

This stood out to me the most. It's easy for people to judge and assume you're in your room all day, but if you've given the world your attention and actually made an attempt, only to learn that there's no tribe for you, then that's an alienating experience in its own. Suddenly it doesn't really feel like you're trying to find a new home, instead it feels like you're a parasite, trying to worm your way into these worlds seemingly filled with a beauty that wasn't ever yours.
of course that may just be my perspective, but hopefully there's a commonality between us in that regard

I am autistic and was abused as a child, and the perspective you have described here as well as Makko's original vent resonate with me quite a lot.

Are either of you autistic? There's no point in getting it on paper once you reach adulthood, as there are pretty much no services available for autistic adults who are verbal and aren't in domiciliary/family care. However, having insight into the root of what has caused the current manifestation of the self can be freeing in a way.

Even mild forms of abuse can lead to feeling like you are an alien occupying the wrong planet. Coupled with autism, that can be a very isolating existence. When people have drastically different upbringings than you, it creates a fault line between the two parties that only grows wider with time, as the cracks can no longer be concealed.

A person with a history of childhood neglect or a disability that had presented since childhood possesses a unique experience that those on the other side of the fault line can't understand.

Our behaviors, our thoughts, and even our very existence contradicts what those people are brought up to believe-that the world is fair and just. Their conversations, mannerisms, lifestyles and means by which they socialize are almost the antithesis of what a victim of abuse would be exposed to during crucial periods of development.

How can you mesh together two groups that have fundamentally different life experiences and levels of empathy? I don't have an answer to that, it seems like one of those things that's destined to remain a mystery due to the primitive nature of many cognitive responses.

I know exactly what you mean by feeling as if you don't fit into any tribe. Throughout the years I have made many attempts to join different groups and put myself out there socially, even if I struggle with it. Even around those with common interests, I felt like I did not fit in. I have only truly ever felt understood by a handful of people online, nothing more than that.

All the advice assumes that you have never tried to reach out to other people. Acknowledging that some humans simply do not seem to fit in anywhere appears to be an anathema of the current psychological paradigms that focus on stoicism, individualism, and the assumption that an individual has free will and control of his actions-"you choose to be social or not" type rhetoric.

 

[Toptock]

I am autistic and was abused as a child, and the perspective you have described here as well as Makko's original vent resonate with me quite a lot.

Are either of you autistic? There's no point in getting it on paper once you reach adulthood, as there are pretty much no services available for autistic adults who are verbal and aren't in domiciliary/family care. However, having insight into the root of what has caused the current manifestation of the self can be freeing in a way.

Even mild forms of abuse can lead to feeling like you are an alien occupying the wrong planet. Coupled with autism, that can be a very isolating existence. When people have drastically different upbringings than you, it creates a fault line between the two parties that only grows wider with time, as the cracks can no longer be concealed.

A person with a history of childhood neglect or a disability that had presented since childhood possesses a unique experience that those on the other side of the fault line can't understand.

Our behaviors, our thoughts, and even our very existence contradicts what those people are brought up to believe-that the world is fair and just. Their conversations, mannerisms, lifestyles and means by which they socialize are almost the antithesis of what a victim of abuse would be exposed to during crucial periods of development.

How can you mesh together two groups that have fundamentally different life experiences and levels of empathy? I don't have an answer to that, it seems like one of those things that's destined to remain a mystery due to the primitive nature of many cognitive responses.

I know exactly what you mean by feeling as if you don't fit into any tribe. Throughout the years I have made many attempts to join different groups and put myself out there socially, even if I struggle with it. Even around those with common interests, I felt like I did not fit in. I have only truly ever felt understood by a handful of people online, nothing more than that.

All the advice assumes that you have never tried to reach out to other people. Acknowledging that some humans simply do not seem to fit in anywhere appears to be an anathema of the current psychological paradigms that focus on stoicism, individualism, and the assumption that an individual has free will and control of his actions-"you choose to be social or not" type rhetoric.

Imagine having all this thought out and some kid on a forum tells you that you just need to "Get outside your own head more."

There's really not much I can say. Honestly I've said it too much already, but parents who have autistic children will use that as a crutch for things they don't understand. And that sometimes translates into your whole identity being based around a mutation. When it comes to adapting with Autism one of the main defining features I've heard isn't so much an inability to fit in, but more-so a lack of desire to. And i've received both the "Nobody has to fit in, it doesn't matter" as well as the "You should be the one changing, not them" treatments.

We aren't the ones to answer that question, and if i could, I wouldn't. But yes, to be clear, I have autism. Lol. I don't try to adapt anymore, I'm too jaded and selfish now. But you're absolutely right, even if you find a 'tribe' to stick with, there's no guarantee you'll stay. It's almost like magic when you look at it from the outside sometimes.

It especially is bothersome when someone denies any form of critical thinking once you've explained yourself and instead opts for the low road of "Oh ok, so you just wanted..." And then proceeds to reduce your desires to the barest, most uselessly naked form of something they're familiar with, ripping away any real meaning and instead wanting to shame you into admitting you don't know what else to say.

 

[TooConscious]

I actually feel closer to dogs and cats...
I know this sounds narcissistic or silly like those who say "ah I hate people I only like dogs"
They can't deeply feel their words.
Animals have more empathy and compassion than humans, they aren't sadistic or cruel, or shallow. They don't betray. I could go on all day. But hating this flesh vehicle, and the fucking shit operating system its hopping around carrying. I hate that I hate what humans did to me, their own.

 

[Makko]

Feel free to ignore my post if I'm prying too much, but may I ask how you feel about religion and philosophy? I got into such things at a young age, primarily out of interest in finding a "purpose" in life. Admittedly, it never ended up giving me one directly, as I decided to follow cultural primitivism after experiencing certain things in life, not after reading a paper on it.

Considering the spiritual demographics of this site, I'll pass on this one. I don't want to derail my precious thread.

I too, feel like I need to find an Epiphany. The most common thing people have said to me is that I have an old soul. An old soul that needs to learn its final lesson. sounds poetic, sounds tragic.

I don't think there's anything tragic about it. It was the best moment of my life. It felt like an extra eye opened on my forehead and started seeing the hidden world that always surrounded me but that I couldn't see before.

Many real forms of danger don't phase me at all either but neither do the good things, that's why being stuck in a perpetual state of the freeze response is traumatizing on its own. You seem like you're fighting against the idea of trying to break free from being numb because it's been a part of you for so long but it's nothing more than one of nature's shitty survival mechanisms. It's far too late for me but I think if you have the resources and ability to do something and experience life the way you were meant to then you should consider giving it a try.

You clearly understand the condition very well. Possibly the first I've met who does. I find it disturbing that my life is apparently n't lived by me, but by an unthinking mechanical imposter on autopilot, while the real me that should be here is locked up in a basement somewhere since early childhood. Quite the horror story.

It's easy for people to judge and assume you're in your room all day, but if you've given the world your attention and actually made an attempt, only to learn that there's no tribe for you, then that's an alienating experience in its own. Suddenly it doesn't really feel like you're trying to find a new home, instead it feels like you're a parasite, trying to worm your way into these worlds seemingly filled with a beauty that wasn't ever yours.

When you start your journey looking for a place to settle, you first have to despair to find your plot before you realise that you are a nomad. The big difference between a nomad and a settler with no plot is that the nomad has no destination.

A person with a history of childhood neglect or a disability that had presented since childhood possesses a unique experience that those on the other side of the fault line can't understand.

Animals have more empathy and compassion than humans, they aren't sadistic or cruel, or shallow.

Long ago, when I complained about empathy, understanding and their difficulties, I was told something that made an impression: only the lowest cretins want empathy. Everyone else wants affection. Empathy is not what human relationships are for. Already by choosing to seek it you've already made a fundamental error and doomed yourself to lifelong misery.

 

[EmbraceOfTheVoid]

You clearly understand the condition very well. Possibly the first I've met who does. I find it disturbing that my life is apparently n't lived by me, but by an unthinking mechanical imposter on autopilot, while the real me that should be here is locked up in a basement somewhere since early childhood. Quite the horror story.

Having a good grasp of it unfortunately just cemented the idea in my head that there wasn't a way to recover for me and that suicide is the only realistic option to be honest. The people that do have some semblance of recovery in the books I've read are generally the ones that were already quite high functioning to begin with and had the resources to do something about it. I unfortunately didn't fall into the category of a functional automaton so I'm frankly shit out of luck. Whatever sense of a self I once had has been destroyed by a depersonalized limbo I've been trapped in since the age of at least two.

Your last sentence made me remember a particular section from a book that's extremely relatable to what you said and the particular section that it's in is about Schizoid personality disorder but also trauma in general. I don't care for the labels and I frankly consider personality disorders to just be one of those adaptive survival mechanisms that fall under PTSD and have become ingrained. Anyways, it's from the book Disorders of the Self: New Therapeutic Horizons:

1. When the child is threatened by physical/sexual events that may exceed the protective capacities of the self-and-other dyad of the formative years, the perceived danger may be split off and dissociated, and this may produce posttraumatic stress disorder if the input is sufficiently intense or chronic. If the physical/sexual transgression of the child's "world" is traumatic, the sensory, emotional, and cognitive processing are interrupted and suspended in a defensive cold storage. Because of this lack of integration, a memory is not established, and may never be. A part of the self is, in effect, left behind in time; it is unable to grow. And to compound the dilemma, the knowledge of this situation is not available to the conscious self.

I think you might also find this somewhat informative based on you mentioning how your parents didn't teach you anything in another thread:

The schizoid patient's subjective experience is not that of being a vital cog in the family system, be it healthy or pathological; rather, the experience is of being a dehumanized, depersonified function that can be called on to serve a purpose, any purpose, and then can be consigned again to the back shelf until another service or function is required. As a child, the schizoid patient experienced a response from the parent—a look, a cue— that was confusing, and so the patient was unable to interpret it and use it for affective orientation. Or the schizoid patient experienced a response, a look, of almost scornful derision because the child had even turned to the parent for that kind of affective response or affective information. In either case, there was the experience of nothing being communicated back.


A child in this situation is left to his or her own devices. The crucial problem for the future schizoid patient is that the other person is not available to provide the kind of cues or responses that the child needs at those critical moments in life when decisions cannot be made by the child alone; rather, the child requires active input from another. The experience of the schizoid patient was not one of a consistent pattern of negotiation that informs the child about what must be done in order to get acknowledgment, affirmation, and approval. The consistent pattern is that one can be called on to perform particular functions at particular times with no particular rhyme or reason. Acknowledgment comes about through the person's availability to perform whatever he or she is called on to do. One patient described this as being a "human dust buster" for her family. She said that she "hung in the closet quietly. I was neither seen nor heard. But when I was needed to do something—different things at different times—I was called out, taken out of the closet, used, and then returned." It was, in her words, a "back-shelf existence."


This schizoid patient performed her functions well, and in so doing experienced a sense of self-value. This is true for many, perhaps most, schizoid patients. However, the notion of function in this context is one that is devoid of affect. The schizoid patient's experience of self-value is one that is devoid of interpersonal affective affirmation.


The experience of schizoid patients is that they were not living, dynamic parts of the family systems in which they grew up. They experienced themselves as being treated as objects without unique feelings, used and manipulated for whatever shifting purposes they were called on to serve. Schizoid patients, in describing such experiences, use certain metaphors over and over, such as feeling like a puppet or an android or, most frequently, feeling like a slave. In childhood, the future schizoid patient begins to rely more and more on internal feedback than on external feedback. If a person cannot confidently expect some sort of acknowledgment, let alone affirmation and approval, of his or her actions by another person, then the person is forced to turn to cues and feedback from other sources in order to guarantee some sort of affirmation. Otherwise, the person would experience life as an endless series of episodes in which his or her words or feelings were cast into a pit in which they would never hit bottom, creating no response, or even an echo, from the environment. This is an inherently terrifying experience similar to the primal agony of falling forever (Winnicott, 1965, p. 76).


A phenomenon, which is part of the history of many schizoid patients, dramatically conveys, and confirms, the kind of subjective experiences that have been described. Schizoid patients will frequently report that around the age of latency—generally between the ages of seven and nine—they became aware of the fact that no matter what they did, they could not expect, or rely on, their parents or caretakers for the acknowledgment, affirmation, and approval they wanted and needed. This was a conscious awareness at the time and not a retrospective awareness reported as part of a historical reconstruction. Patients report the conscious feeling at that time that their parents did not love them and that there was absolutely nothing that they could do to get their parents' love. That experience is uniquely schizoid. Narcissistic and borderline disorders are characterized by the endless efforts to uncover the treasure chest of interpersonal supplies that lies tantalizingly just beyond reach. These efforts have no end point. For the schizoid patient, such efforts must take into account and circumvent the reality of the experience of parental unavailability.

 

[Makko]

Among the many ways of alienation, one in particular has snuck up on me: sexuality. My psychosexual development is that of a ten year old. I know that sex exists. I know that it is what women want to gossip about, and men want when they are coming on to me. But that's the whole of my experience with it. It's like a UFO, that weird, obscure and mysterious thing that everyone alludes to, but I've never seen it with my own eyes outside of some suspicious video. The thought that people build realtionships and even families based on sexuality is completely arcane to me.

This wasn't something I thought about at all until I was forced to. Whenever it came up in conversation or I was flirted with, I comfortably zoned out, and if pushed, I could always take on the role of the airheaded teenager who "hasn't figured myself out yet" and deflect any nosy inquiries. Although every time it comes, everytime girls try to engage me about it, or guys trying to make a move, I'm reminded that I'm not among my species.

As you grow older, people's expectations change. Up to a certain age, the basic assumption is that you're either single or maybe have a boyfriend/girlfriend that you occasionally meet. Then comes that phase when you notice that everyone else is starting to get settled down, but it's still not weird to still be a "free spirit". I'm now at the end of that phase and entering the phase where the basic assumption is that you have a family. At my workplace, everyone (100 %) older than me has a family with children. Many of those younger than me also have families.

I can no longer be the airheaded teenager. If I still don't have this figured out at 28, something looks to be fundamentally wrong with me, and I can't mask it without resorting to unsustainable lies. There's no excuse for me to be a crazy cat lady and I don't want that image for myself. Still, I can come up with some new banter. The odd sensation is that this whole internal experience makes me feel even more alienated from everyone than before.

As time goes on, my path diverges from my peers more and more. I'm going deeper into a mental labyrith from where there is no return. Pragmatically it's not a good thing at all, but I'd lie if I said I don't get some sort of perverse excitement from this. I like not being normal. I like being a lone wanderer. I get pleasure from it, of a sort that others could never begin to understand. The alienation is part of the experience, and despite the terror of it, I'm willing to accept it, because without the terror I can't have the pleasure.

 

[Lucien]

Among the many ways of alienation, one in particular has snuck up on me: sexuality. My psychosexual development is that of a ten year old. I know that sex exists. I know that it is what women want to gossip about, and men want when they are coming on to me. But that's the whole of my experience with it. It's like a UFO, that weird, obscure and mysterious thing that everyone alludes to, but I've never seen it with my own eyes outside of some suspicious video. The thought that people build realtionships and even families based on sexuality is completely arcane to me.

This wasn't something I thought about at all until I was forced to. Whenever it came up in conversation or I was flirted with, I comfortably zoned out, and if pushed, I could always take on the role of the airheaded teenager who "hasn't figured myself out yet" and deflect any nosy inquiries. Although every time it comes, everytime girls try to engage me about it, or guys trying to make a move, I'm reminded that I'm not among my species.

As you grow older, people's expectations change. Up to a certain age, the basic assumption is that you're either single or maybe have a boyfriend/girlfriend that you occasionally meet. Then comes that phase when you notice that everyone else is starting to get settled down, but it's still not weird to still be a "free spirit". I'm now at the end of that phase and entering the phase where the basic assumption is that you have a family. At my workplace, everyone (100 %) older than me has a family with children. Many of those younger than me also have families.

I can no longer be the airheaded teenager. If I still don't have this figured out at 28, something looks to be fundamentally wrong with me, and I can't mask it without resorting to unsustainable lies. There's no excuse for me to be a crazy cat lady and I don't want that image for myself. Still, I can come up with some new banter. The odd sensation is that this whole internal experience makes me feel even more alienated from everyone than before.

As time goes on, my path diverges from my peers more and more. I'm going deeper into a mental labyrith from where there is no return. Pragmatically it's not a good thing at all, but I'd lie if I said I don't get some sort of perverse excitement from this. I like not being normal. I like being a lone wanderer. I get pleasure from it, of a sort that others could never begin to understand. The alienation is part of the experience, and despite the terror of it, I'm willing to accept it, because without the terror I can't have the pleasure.

Some of this seems familiar along with the introductory post. I don't care about partners or friends to get cozy with. But I do daydream about an arch-nemesis. Basically just someone to act as a mirror, capable of matching my extremes. The cat-and-mouse, cloak and dagger jazz is an added bonus.

Too bad the world operates differently from fiction. That's basically my one problem with it.

 

[TooConscious]

Some of this seems familiar along with the introductory post. I don't care about partners or friends to get cozy with. But I do daydream about an arch-nemesis. Basically just someone to act as a mirror, capable of matching my extremes. The cat-and-mouse, cloak and dagger jazz is an added bonus.

Too bad the world operates differently from fiction. That's basically my one problem with it.

Far more bizarre than any fiction that could be created.

 

[Makko]

But I do daydream about an arch-nemesis.

Mutual Assured Destruction is the best method but then you need someone, or something, that can match your pace.

 

[heretogethelp]

Why is the world so far away?

I don't share the most basic and fundamental life experiences with anyone I've ever met. I look around and see a different speces. Humans feel as distant as cats or dogs.

I have no family. There are dozens of relatives scattered across many places, but I've unconsciously estranged myself from all of them, and there are none where I live.

I have no home. Where I live now I feel like a tourist. I go to visit where I'm originally from and I feel like a tourist there too. Everyone is a foreigner.

I have no friends. Only allies. Many and reliable allies, but just allies none the less.

I have no sexuality. I've never been attracted to anyone. I don't even know what my orientation is.

I have no sympathy. I spend all of my public life pretending that I do.

I have no past. I don't make memories. I don't remember faces. I have no keepsakes or pictures of anything I've experienced. Every day is a longing towards a distant and ethereal future that keeps changing as fluidly as water.

I have no interests that I can communicate. I don't enjoy conventional entertainment at all. Last time I read a book, watched a movie, did sports or browsed a fashion magazine was 15 years ago.

I'm not thinking all this while locked up and brooding in my room. I'm giving life a fair trial. I've been all over the world. I've broken bread with both princes and paupers. I've seen and touched the different sides of humanity, but no side has attracted me. No place made me want to stay. No tribe made me want to join. All I do is reject things, because everything on offer is worse than nothing. Something is missing and I can't find it. I don't even know what it is. I'll be looking for it until I die, or until I reach an "epiphany". I've already had one of these "epiphanies", it's something that builds up like a vague cloud over the course of your life and then comes down like lightning strike. The epiphany I've had is the realisation of all the "I have noes", the acceptance that it fundamentally severs me from any kind of togetherness, and the resolution of treating humanity as a separate species from myself. It was almost a mystical experience, like I could for a second peel back reality and see the gears and cogs underneath.

I'm looking for just one more "epiphany" that will reveal just a little more.

Welcome to life. It is Hell.

 

[Amumu]

Animals have more empathy and compassion than humans, they aren't sadistic or cruel, or shallow.

 

[Makko]

Is atmospheric black metal the approved derealization music? I'm hooked on this band

 

[Midgardsorm]

Is atmospheric black metal the approved derealization music? I'm hooked on this band

"Hooked" ... Something did caught her attention.

What kind of witchcraft is that?

 

[TobyPadres]

Are you sure you aren't disassociated? The freeze response can cause emotional and physical numbness as well as detachment from your memories, sense of identity, etc. I was traumatized at a very early age and have been disconnected from everyone and everything ever since which is why I was asking. Many people who detach from their emotions to cope with their childhood trauma end up isolated from others and binge on various forms of "entertainment" to cope with what they've repressed or they become workaholics.

I second this

 

[Meditation guide]

Why is the world so far away?

I don't share the most basic and fundamental life experiences with anyone I've ever met. I look around and see a different speces. Humans feel as distant as cats or dogs.

I have no family. There are dozens of relatives scattered across many places, but I've unconsciously estranged myself from all of them, and there are none where I live.

I have no home. Where I live now I feel like a tourist. I go to visit where I'm originally from and I feel like a tourist there too. Everyone is a foreigner.

I have no friends. Only allies. Many and reliable allies, but just allies none the less.

I have no sexuality. I've never been attracted to anyone. I don't even know what my orientation is.

I have no sympathy. I spend all of my public life pretending that I do.

I have no past. I don't make memories. I don't remember faces. I have no keepsakes or pictures of anything I've experienced. Every day is a longing towards a distant and ethereal future that keeps changing as fluidly as water.

I have no interests that I can communicate. I don't enjoy conventional entertainment at all. Last time I read a book, watched a movie, did sports or browsed a fashion magazine was 15 years ago.

I'm not thinking all this while locked up and brooding in my room. I'm giving life a fair trial. I've been all over the world. I've broken bread with both princes and paupers. I've seen and touched the different sides of humanity, but no side has attracted me. No place made me want to stay. No tribe made me want to join. All I do is reject things, because everything on offer is worse than nothing. Something is missing and I can't find it. I don't even know what it is. I'll be looking for it until I die, or until I reach an "epiphany". I've already had one of these "epiphanies", it's something that builds up like a vague cloud over the course of your life and then comes down like lightning strike. The epiphany I've had is the realisation of all the "I have noes", the acceptance that it fundamentally severs me from any kind of togetherness, and the resolution of treating humanity as a separate species from myself. It was almost a mystical experience, like I could for a second peel back reality and see the gears and cogs underneath.

I'm looking for just one more "epiphany" that will reveal just a little more.

You are a buddha. You have transcended the material world. I don't say this to make fun of you, I mean it. Treasure what you have as it may be your last stop on this earth before achieving enlightenment. You have indifference to all this.

 

[Makko]

You are a buddha. You have transcended the material world. I don't say this to make fun of you, I mean it. Treasure what you have as it may be your last stop on this earth before achieving enlightenment. You have indifference to all this.

I'm not sure if a buddhahood crafted out of mental illness is genuine as far as the path to enlightenment goes. On the other hand, I must have many lives as a hardcore monastic behind me to get this level of detachment "for free".

 

[Stopthepain]

Completely disassociated. I've never been abused though. This is just how I am as a person. I use work to stay at least a little grounded. If I take more than a few days off I start becoming derealized.


Workaholism. Money is one thing I've never had problems with.

That's it. I guess some level of depersonalisation.. i was a normal dude before this hit me. Now i am nothing.

 

[SleepDealer]

I can relate to some of this. Many people try to assure me that life is worth living by convincing me that I can get a better job, a better house, find love, etc. What they don't understand is that I have never doubted my abilities for a second. I know I can get a better job, a better house, and find love. I simply do not want to.

This reality does not inspire me, I'm not interested in climbing higher, and the things this society places on a pedestal are not the things I'm interested in pursuing. I've already sampled what life has to offer and have come to the conclusion that such things are not worth the effort.

There are some differences though. I know what I want and the things I want are all locked away in the world of fiction. My dissociation comes from a very conscious rejection of reality. I already know I'm not going to get what I want out of life. I'm waiting to die. In the meantime, I like to experiment. My energy goes towards playing pretend, serving other people, and toying with spiritual concepts that I don't actually believe in. Who knows, maybe one of the countless arbitrary combinations of salt drawings, plants, and candles really will summon a demon. What do I have to lose?

Admittedly, there are moments where I lose interest in everything and when I imagine getting what I've always wanted, I can't help but feel like this emptiness will still be there. It won't satisfy me. But... I've had depression since I was a kid and what I described is one of the symptoms. Maybe this is all just the result of some chemical imbalance and broken biology. A boring conclusion, but a likely one.

I'd rather believe that you're the incarnation of Buddha like that one guy suggested. That's far more interesting.

 

[Meditation guide]

I'm not sure if a buddhahood crafted out of mental illness is genuine as far as the path to enlightenment goes. On the other hand, I must have many lives as a hardcore monastic behind me to get this level of detachment "for free".

I seek the indifference that you have naturally. I'm part way there. I don't care for any relationships. Yes it may be labeled something by mental health professionals but in my view it's important to remain totally detached.

Inside of us all, there is an indifferent being, looking out at all this and seeing it for what it is; a meaningless experience.

 

[motel rooms]

You are a buddha. You have transcended the material world. I don't say this to make fun of you, I mean it. Treasure what you have as it may be your last stop on this earth before achieving enlightenment. You have indifference to all this.

I'm not sure if a buddhahood crafted out of mental illness is genuine as far as the path to enlightenment goes. On the other hand, I must have many lives as a hardcore monastic behind me to get this level of detachment "for free".

Do I, an avowed despiser of Buddhism & other religions, have to remind you that "enlightened" beings are supposedly infinitely compassionate, the polar opposite of indifferent & dead inside?

 

[Stopthepain]

You are a buddha. You have transcended the material world. I don't say this to make fun of you, I mean it. Treasure what you have as it may be your last stop on this earth before achieving enlightenment. You have indifference to all this.

Do u know how horrible it is to have to live with this disorder? What the hell bro. Switch on your empathaty for a moment

 

[Walkingcorpse123]

I wonder how many monks think about suicide. I have somehow come to conclusion that suicide is the most awakened act I could do.

 

[again_noidea]

Completely disassociated. I've never been abused though. This is just how I am as a person. I use work to stay at least a little grounded. If I take more than a few days off I start becoming derealized.


Workaholism. Money is one thing I've never had problems with.

i guess you are Asia, probably from Japan or China. If I keep guessing, i would say your parents used an authoritarian parenting style. And maybe you are very sensible, and thus you're disconnected from your emotions because you never had a chance to express them spontaneously without repercussions. Sorry for my guessing, I know i should do that, but I get tempted too hard.

I wonder how many monks think about suicide. I have somehow come to conclusion that suicide is the most awakened act I could do.

You can find a picture on the wiki section of a very young monk that hanged himself on a tree.

 

[Makko]

"1. When the child is threatened by physical/sexual events that may exceed the protective capacities of the self-and-other dyad of the formative years, the perceived danger may be split off and dissociated, and this may produce posttraumatic stress disorder if the input is sufficiently intense or chronic. If the physical/sexual transgression of the child's "world" is traumatic, the sensory, emotional, and cognitive processing are interrupted and suspended in a defensive cold storage. Because of this lack of integration, a memory is not established, and may never be. A part of the self is, in effect, left behind in time; it is unable to grow. And to compound the dilemma, the knowledge of this situation is not available to the conscious self."

I've thought about this. So apparently I might not be naturally the way I am, but instead it could be that I suffered some extremely horrific trauma that permanently left me dissociated, emotionally crippled and unable to make memories, and instead of becoming a vibrant and sensitive individual I became an oily cyborg. Sheesh, that prospect sure makes me feel better. Thanks psychology.

i guess you are Asia, probably from Japan or China. If I keep guessing, i would say your parents used an authoritarian parenting style. And maybe you are very sensible, and thus you're disconnected from your emotions because you never had a chance to express them spontaneously without repercussions. Sorry for my guessing, I know i should do that, but I get tempted too hard.

My parents thought that emotions were for degenerates while being fairly emotional themselves (I don't know if that's narcissism or hypocrisy or whatever). I agreed with them, and as a consequence secretly thought they were degenerates. Either they never reprimanded me for emotionality because I was never emotional to begin with, or I was never emotional because I knew they would disapprove. I asked myself this before but it's a chicken and egg question.

 

[again_noidea]

My parents thought that emotions were for degenerates while being fairly emotional themselves (I don't know if that's narcissism or hypocrisy or whatever). I agreed with them, and as a consequence secretly thought they were degenerates. Either they never reprimanded me for emotionality because I was never emotional to begin with, or I was never emotional because I knew they would disapprove. I asked myself this before but it's a chicken and egg question.

 

[Makko]

I'm reading this and it's making me sick how true it strikes and how macabre the conclusion is. I haven't come across internal death being written about so plainly.

Frontiers | What is a “sense of foreshortened future?” A phenomenological study of trauma, trust, and time

One of the symptoms of trauma is said to be a “sense of foreshortened future.” Without further qualification, it is not clear how to interpret this. In this ...

www.frontiersin.org

Hence a sense of foreshortened future is not a judgment to the effect that the remainder of one's life will be short and that one has little or nothing to look forward to. It is a change in how time is experienced: an orientation toward the future that is inseparable from one's experience of past and present, and also from the short- and long-term "passage" of time, is altered. It is not just that one will no longer get married, have children or have a successful career. One confronts a world that is incompatible with the possibility of an open and progressive life story23. And so traumatized people sometimes describe themselves as having died or say that a part of them has died: "when trust is lost, traumatized people feel that they belong more to the dead than to the living" (Herman, 1992/1997, p. 52).
This can be conceived of in terms of what Heidegger (1927/1962) calls "being-toward-death." Joseph Rouse, in a conference paper on John Haugeland's interpretation of Heidegger, develops the point that being-toward-death or "existential death" involves anticipating something that is distinct from biological death24. Existential death, Rouse explains, "is not an actual event, but a comportment toward the ever-impending possibility of [our] own impossibility."

So he prescribes opium, tickling and brain-zapping for any emotion I want. Sounds simple enough.

 

[again_noidea]

So he prescribes opium, tickling and brain-zapping for any emotion I want. Sounds simple enough.

i would say it goes a deeper than that. He says that emotions are the core of our being and always a propri to any psychological phenomenon that we experience. For me the conclusion is, that the self-knowledge about our emotional economy is essential for our self understanding. I like it because it goes against our cultural obsession with rationality. So many people anchor their self in that rationality and subdue their emotions under it. Also, if anybody say, emotions are crap, they are obviously filled with self-delusion or self-hatred. And yes, opiates are sadly neglected as a valuable anti depressant, probably the best we have at the time.

 

[Skathon]

Schizoid personality disorder, perhaps?

 

[BeansOfRequirement]

Schizoid personality disorder, perhaps?

Looks like it, Youtube psychologists to the rescue! I think I was schizoid-ish due to my autism (I might be schizoid rather than autistic, or perhaps both, with traits of at least schizoidism having been diminished over time) before I became an unhinged loser and this video really hits how I felt:



I used to jump when being touched and was the only person that didn't cry during ceremonies/funerals/etc. Turns out that I had it in me but as is said in the video, covered up. Not sure if I would recommend other possible schizoids to dig that shit up, though, I became a pathetic incel. Maybe if ppl are in a position to handle a sudden influx of emotional needs they can give it a go, YOLO.

 

[Pure]

Skimming through your responses, I would guess that your childhood experiences on why you are the way you are. My general rule of thumb, if the only thing a parent can say is "I never hit my children" then chances are they were abusive or neglectful in other aspects of their lives.

Attachment style in your childhood will greatly impact your adult life. I was reading a book on people who experience Limerence and learned that I had an anxious attachment style. Looked it up and realized that how I act as an adult is completely in line with other adults who have anxious attachment. My mom rarely hit me but she was/is emotionally volatile and had/has zero issues with being cruel if she wanted to do.

You're Asian right? My Asian friend tells me there's a level of narcissism to Asian culture. Makes sense from what I understand, a huge sense of filial obligation to one's parents no matter how awful they are. I remember a post you said where your parents wanted slaves not children. Combined with the fact you said your parents thought emotions were for plebs while being negatively emotive themselves?

Emotions fuck with kids badly and parents choose to not give a shit. In my experience, I never learned how to properly regulate my emotions. When I think I'm experiencing love, I go all the way to developing limerence which is a very painful experience if the other person doesn't reciprocate. When I feel sad, I just go into suicidal and self destructive behavior.

It sounds like you manage to completely suppress your emotions instead of learning how regulate them properly. I'm at 100% you're at 0%. Normal people are between 25%-75%. I saw people throw around "Schizoid Personality Disorder" for you. From Wikipedia:

"Schizoid personality disorder (/ˈskɪtsɔɪd, ˈskɪdzɔɪd/, often abbreviated as SPD or SzPD) is a personality disorder characterized by a lack of interest in social relationships, a tendency toward a solitary or sheltered lifestyle, secretiveness, emotional coldness, detachment and apathy. Affected individuals may be unable to form intimate attachments to others and simultaneously possess a rich and elaborate but exclusively internal fantasy world.[6][12] Other associated features include stilted speech, a lack of deriving enjoyment from most activities, feeling as though one is an "observer" rather than a participant in life, an inability to tolerate emotional expectations of others, apparent indifference when praised or criticized, a degree of asexuality, and idiosyncratic moral or political beliefs.[13] Symptoms typically start in late childhood or adolescence.[6]"

Sounds like you, I agree.

Skimming that article, it states that the issue with people with SPD is that there's low incentive for them to seek treatment. I guess my question is, do you want to connect with other people? Based off your comments I'd say you do but are just alienated by what you find but you're still open to experiences.

I haven't had much experience with hallucinagens other than mild microdosing of shrooms to aid in my depression but from the research I gathered, taking heroic doses of shrooms or doing an ayahuasca trip can kill the ego (which is ultimately what I think depression is for me anyways, sounds like the issue with SPD) and force experiencing connection with the world. It's why I'm shelving out a lot of money for an ayahuasca trip later this year.