Discussion Do you believe God exists?

[Andro_USYD]

I'm a Deist. I believe there is a God however I'm not sure whether I believe it's the God of organised religion..was never brought up in a religious household and never knowing the answer was never good enough for me so I sought answers: there are logical answers for the problem of suffering and evil in the world. If you're interested in genuinely in this topic I recommend taking a look at these:

Creation and Evolution | Reasonable Faith

The Defenders podcast is Dr. Craig’s Sunday school class on apologetics. Listen to Creation and Evolution online now.

www.reasonablefaith.org

Excursus On Natural Theology | Reasonable Faith

The Defenders podcast is Dr. Craig’s Sunday school class on apologetics. Listen to Excursus On Natural Theology online now.

www.reasonablefaith.org

Edit: start at the excursion on natural theology

It doesn't matter what version of theism you gravitate toward. None provide a resolution to the problem of evil. It is very sad but we are going through whatever this is blind. It is evil so the sooner it is annihilated the better.

There are good answers for this, friend. You just haven't heard them before, here:

The Problem of Evil | Reasonable Faith

The problem of evil is certainly the greatest obstacle to belief in the existence of God. When I ponder both the extent and depth of suffering in the world, whether due to...

www.reasonablefaith.org

The Problem of Evil (part 1) | Reasonable Faith

The Defenders Podcast: Series 1 is Dr. Craig’s Sunday school class on apologetics. Listen online now: The Problem of Evil (part 1)

www.reasonablefaith.org

 

[alonely]

Nah. There's been ideas of thousands of different gods. For monotheistic religions in particular, I like the quote:

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
- Stephen Roberts

 

[Andro_USYD]

Monotheism is not being an atheist to polytheistic religions. Occam's razor suggests that they're simply not necessary (additional gods) to be the cause of the universe beginning to exist. If you look at the link I gave on an excursus on natural theology there are 5-6 arguments for theism including the Kalam Cosmological argument. Occam's razor suggest you shouldn't multiply by necessities meaning....even if these other gods were to exist they are simply not necessary for things such as the beginning of the universe and the fine tuning of it + there are monotheistic versions of even Hinduism.... Don't confuse god-of-the-gaps gods like Vikings gods for one God.

 

[Nervosomnifer]

God may exist...but at the same time It may not. We simply have no way of objectively answering this question yet, since we don't have appropriate methods of cognition for it.

Most of the existing objective methods if not all come from science...which doesn't strive to learn something that is beyond physical world and its limits in any way.

 

[_Minsk]

no

 

[gab702]

I do not believe in god.

 

[Spiritual survivor]

Yes. God is love I'd be long gone without having discovered God in 2021. For me it was life changing. I still struggle a lot in life but that connection has helped. I'm much less afraid in life but it's not totally gone but not as extreme as I was.

 

[Andro_USYD]

Ur view is called "hard agnosticism" that no one can really know whether God exists when I think philosophy has methods to prove the existence of God. If you understand them well enough and really think about them the arguments in favour are quite strong. Examples of arguments are the teleological argument, the Kalam Cosmological argument (refined lately by William Lane Craig), the evolutionary argument against naturalism by Alvin Plantiga and arguments such as the fine tuning of the universe. Do they make it absolutely certain? No I don't think so, but I can believe beyond a reasonable doubt that from these arguments there exists a deity of some kind.

 

[aGoodDayToDie]

I do not believe in God at all. It is a concept created by human beings based on our tendency to anthropomorphize everything, including whatever created the world we live in. But now we know better. We understand much more about how we were created and there's absolutely zero evidence of God. Everything just obeys the cold, harsh mathematical laws of physics. Cause and effect. Laws and consequence.

There's no way there's a god that cares about what we think or do, and no way a god would be so cruel and vindictive.

We're the result of random chance, among trillions of planets, each with trillions of particles. Our existence was inevitable given the near infinite combinations of substances existing in the universe. There's nothing supernatural about it. We're on our own in this awful existence. Nothing is there yo guide us or take care of us. It's the awful truth. Nothing cares about our suffering. Nothing will guide us to greater pleasures. Nothing is overlooking our well-being.

 

[Andro_USYD]

When you say there are no arguments for God's existence I don't know why you think why? In philosophy there are many arguments for God's existence such as here: https://www.reasonablefaith.org/podcasts/defenders-podcast-series-2/s2-excursus-on-natural-theology click on "Listen and more" and go through these, there are about 5 arguments just in this series. And if you want plausible answers for the problem of evil and suffering I can give you more resources on this.

The fine tuning argument states that it's not just about earth being in the Goldilocks zone, but rather the entire universe has been fine tuned and if things such as Plank's content were altered by Even a hair's breath then the universe would either collapse in on itself or there would be no stars, galaxies or anything necessary to support life of any kind.

 

[purpleSkeleton]

I was Catholic. I've had my own long journey with God. At first when I was a child I was a believer and actually felt like he was good and felt warmth thinking he was good, that despite all he would be there to receive me. Then I started to get into my youth and started to learn about science and other religions, asked the same question of why would god allow so much bad, and became an atheist. For a long time after that I searched for a substitute philosophy, even substitute religion, but to be fair I just started to forget and everyday life took over my mind.

I was still bitter over everything. Until my mother became much more religious than usual. She was getting old and I figured she was starting to get scared for the very close possibly of dying sooner than later just by numbers and probability. Seeing her talking about God and surround herself with so many trinkets and candles and prayers, taking care of dolls with their image and making food offerings to them, etc. At first it angered me very much because of course it was all fake as I thought at the time. She was wasting so much good food daily in offerings to inanimate objects and then throwing the food to the trash. Praying instead of talking about her fears with us. Doing all sorts of things like rituals recommend by all sorts of dubious people that actually affected the rest of the family.

Eventually she calmed down a bit because of our rejection to certain things. I just had to accept that this would be my life now and there was nothing good to come out of rejecting her more, so we just accepted that she is just a hardcore believer because of fear of death and that we simply had to tolerate it and let her be as long as she doesn't harm us or herself...

Then outside of her, I started to ask myself again what God is then. I started to miss that kind of "delusion", thinking that some people can get so much relief in this things while I just can't anymore.

In the end I think God is not a person of course. Is not someone that can alter anything for the better or to his will. Is not even good if we think about it. God is just the idea of the maximum good, and power, and recompense, of justice, and it's the idea of a light that people can follow to become better themselves (at least for some).

My boss for example, is also catholic believer, but he's much less crazy than my mother. He thinks the same. God is not a person on the sky of anything, is just a concept. The maximum expression of good that can only exist in our own imagination, but as a concept it could be said that it exists, even as just a thought that somewhere in some way by some cosmic probability bs there could be someone or something like that. That if someone so terrible can exist, then by shear logic of the rules of the universe then there can be someone that is just good. And that is good to think from time to time in something that represents the absolute good, just like one would do thinking about platonic forms in the cave allegory from Plato.

I actually am currently satisfied with this thought. God doesn't "exist". But it still exists as a concept. I don't believe in the person described in the bible going around doing miracles and sitting on a throne in the sky. But I do believe that there has to be something that represents the ultimate good, the ultimate power, the ultimate justice, even if it's just a thought that might not be part of our universe, it might exist in another reality even outside of ours, or just in our own imagination. But just by thinking about it you bring it into existence of sorts. Another different thing would be actually believing in it more than just thinking about it. But it's a possibility. Just as there being the possibility of the ultimate evil, at least in concept. I don't know where on the spectrum our reality falls in out of all possibilities though. But its just interesting to think about at least without much seriousness.

 

[Disappointered]

I sometimes wonder if a moment of beauty created by perfect momentary brain chemistry is a reality I can hope to find through dying. But in the end it's just a lot of speculation without enough reason, empirical data or even subjective experience to turn into belief. I try to look for a silver lining to the evil of existence and I think about how I've had a few moments of subjective relief and how that might be as valid a reality as any other. But it's basically a form of "cope" (if I'm using the manosphere terminology correctly).

I'm glad some people are turning to more sophisticated arguments if it helps them (especially since I am aware that there has been a political force agitating to destroy religion, starting with Catholicism) but it's still never strong enough for me to believe in anything.

 

[Andro_USYD]

I can fully understand your worldview however I'm really surprised by the sheer number of people that haven't heard any of the philosophical arguments for God's existence. There is for instance the evolutionary argument against naturalism which goes 1) If God does not exist everything is the process of a mindless unguided process of evolution and randomness.
2) if everything is the process of a mindless unguided process our brains would only come to evolve for reproductive purposes as stated by natural selection, our brains wouldn't evolve for truth value
However 3) This is true for the view on atheism. Our brains would not evolve for truthfulness
Yet 4) we've sent men to the moon and colonised the entire planet. What it presents is there's no basis for the logic as it's all evolved for naturalism and there's not even free-will on this view.

 

[Housefly]

The question I had to answer was Could a god exist, if it did what would that look like. If it didn't what would that look like. There are many things claimed about each good God and I find that God to not be consistent or consistently dysfunctional. So that good God couldn't exist based on the attributes. Similarly not worthy of worship.

What about a bad or neutral god that doesn't intervene in human troubles, then they are reckless and irresponsible and not worthy of worship.

What got me to fully denounce faith was how unreliable, uncaring, nonresponsive, ineffective and willfully ignorant.

That is the world we see, how can we determine otherwise.

 

[sppplmgwiwlkiwbtft]

Yes, absolutely. I'm assured that there is a creator/creators. Not that we owe prayers or whatnot to them, and I totally get the sentiment that religion is just a human construct and history has proven that it is basically the root cause for every kind of human suffering imaginable. Still, this world is filled with too much natural beauty and evidence of an attempt at order to be a complete accident. Of course, everyone has a right to decide whether they'll attempt to get to know this God or gods (if thats even possible, various religions believe in various methods of doing this), or just ignore it and try to live their lives. Either way, we've been given some sort of free will, which is why this conversation is occuring in the first place.

I agree fully. I feel like there has to be some kind of a creator, some higher force or intelligence that created the universe. The world is too complex and diverse, so many things happened in the universe because of pure coincidence. I can't believe that all this, all our universe appeared out of nowhere on itself

 

[josephk]

i really hope not. Based on its handiwork on this earth i dont feel that confident with regards to its love for its creatures. In fact if it does exist & we meet in an afterlife, i have a long list of grievances. God may well end up regretting my existence more than i regret Gods existence by the time i finish

 

[Namensjemand]

My answer is very simple: In a sense, very much yes, but it doesn't matter. I do not even believe in God. I expierenced and saw God. I saw and expierenced that consciousness and existence are inseperable. And that we are all part of the ultimate over consciousness which one may term God.

However, all creation comes down to is the balancing of an equation, like a see-saw, resulting in movement. "God" doesn't care about me, personally. He is like the architect from The Matrix, and I am his unwilling tool.

I believe in sth like an inner light, in some sort of transcendence, but that is nothing supernatural.

i really hope not. Based on its handiwork on this earth i dont feel that confident with regards to its love for its creatures. In fact if it does exist & we meet in an afterlife, i have a long list of grievances. God may well end up regretting my existence more than i regret Gods existence by the time i finish

He is just going to shrugg his shoulders.

 

[ayb]

No, but if God exists and is righteous, he would judge man by how virtuous they lived. Not if they were religious and worshipped him. Nothing like the Abrahamic deity.

 

[whywere]

No, but if God exists and is righteous, he would judge man by how virtuous they lived. Not if they were religious and worshipped him. Nothing like the Abrahamic deity.

I 100% agree with you. That is why I am non organized religious, as I have seen in all my 67 years folks running to a house of worship and the other 6 days, they were the most greedy, mean folks ever.

You are so smart with such a wonderful outlook and also viewpoint, so refreshing, thank you.

Walter

 

[Cage]

I'm agnostic, for reasons that I think are obvious. God is supposed to be a being that exists beyond the realm of space and time; if that's the case then how is anyone ever to know if he truly exists or not? Arguing that he 100% exists or doesn't is a complete fallacy when there's no definitive proof either way.

That being said, I do understand people who believe in God because the belief offers them some solace and salvation from this shitty world we live in. I have no respect or patience for atheists though, they are pure evil.

 

[𝗟𝗼𝗻𝗲𝗹𝘆]

Not really.
Personally I believe that religions were made up by people so that they could "explain" things they didn't understand. Also it does bring people peace of mind to think that there is life after death, it makes them less scared of the idea of dying.
However at the end of the day I'm just a human and I don't know everything nor will ever know everything. I do believe that there might be something bigger than us, I don't really bealieve it's a god that most people believe in though. I don't think that if there is a god it's anything we have discovered as a humans yet. Again though, we're just humans and we will never know till the end.
And I have nothing against people who do believe in any religion, any1 should be free to believe in whatever they want as long as they're not harming others with it (I get a lot of shit for being atheist since I live in christian country for example).
Also, if there actually is any god, I doubt he would judge us for believing in him or not. I see many religious people here who are bitter, sad with their life to the point where they wish others bad, who won't help you when needed. If there was a god he would most likely judge us as individuals based on how good of a people we were during our life. I've met many incredible atheists who would deserve to go to heaven more than most christians I've met.

 

[Cage]

Not really.
Personally I believe that religions were made up by people so that they could "explain" things they didn't understand. Also it does bring people peace of mind to think that there is life after death, it makes them less scared of the idea of dying.
However at the end of the day I'm just a human and I don't know everything nor will ever know everything. I do believe that there might be something bigger than us, I don't really bealieve it's a god that most people believe in though. I don't think that if there is a god it's anything we have discovered as a humans yet. Again though, we're just humans and we will never know till the end.
And I have nothing against people who do believe in any religion, any1 should be free to believe in whatever they want as long as they're not harming others with it (I get a lot of shit for being atheist since I live in christian country for example).
Also, if there actually is any god, I doubt he would judge us for believing in him or not. I see many religious people here who are bitter, sad with their life to the point where they wish others bad, who won't help you when needed. If there was a god he would most likely judge us as individuals based on how good of a people we were during our life. I've met many incredible atheists who would deserve to go to heaven more than most christians I've met.

There are no good atheists. They are all selfish hedonistic losers with no compassion or friendliness or discipline or motivation or anything. I know because I used to be one and these were all the atheists I was surrounded with. The atheist community is evil and degenerate.

 

[𝗟𝗼𝗻𝗲𝗹𝘆]

There are no good atheists. They are all selfish hedonistic losers with no compassion or friendliness or discipline or motivation or anything. I know because I used to be one and these were all the atheists I was surrounded with. The atheist community is evil and degenerate.

Sorry that this was your experience with them, I have different experience. All my friends in middle school / high-school were atheist and were actually good people, always nice and kind. Always there for others. I don't think faith has anything to do with being good person. You were just unlucky to meet shitty people, can't put all atheist in 1 box because of that.

 

[DEATH IS FREEDOM]

God is an illusion. Religious scriptures are written by humans. But there may be a divine power not described in religious scriptures. There is no evidence that God exists and there is no evidence that God does not exist.

 

[x_x]

The only strain of belief left in me was in relation to the concept of convergent ethical ideals. Once I realized that it was unnecessary for any developed ethic to require a God, -- supposing such an entity held certain properties [omnibenevolence, for one], -- meant that I could cast asunder any doubt, or at least, any hesitance in rejecting the notion in itself.
On top of this, most good arguments I have seen for typically tried to prove how a God -- holding certain properties -- could exist and avoid contradiction, such as in the problem of evil, which -- I think -- Platinga disproved adequately, though I think there is a certain error in his disproof, though it is hard to explain. In short, most theist-atheist debates involve disproof within a certain logical structure. For the theist, all he is required to do is show how a God could exist given certain conditions, and the atheist is to show how these conditions are contradictory or that his conjecture is senseless.

 

[Shiva_Story]

there is so much cultural and religious nonsense tied to word God that i tend to straightout filter out all religious notions and discern impressions made on me by archaic institutions or fellow human sufferers and attempt throw 99% of them straight into bin as hogwash.
I'm not an atheist but discern a complex world of forces making the illusion of this world and its narratives possible.

God is nature and the Creator is who put it's forces in motion. To me there is no else beside him and it's the single most important relationship in my life.

 

[BlackMoon]

I believe in a non-personified divine entity, and I consider that everything that exists is an emanation of It.

 

[tiger b]

Yes.

 

[die_young]

Yes

 

[Wayfaerer]

"God(s)" as described in all of the human religious texts? No. NO.