Do you have kids?

[Alias Pluto]

I'm a father to a 4 year old boy. I made a mistake because mental problems, medication withdrawal, or maybe BPD, idk. The mom wanted to keep him. He's a light in this world but I'm sad and would like to die. Lately it's becoming a huge chore to help him. I lay around and just want to die. I used to find hope eventually but it's been a long time now and I don't see any way out. Any single fathers here?

 

[betternever2havbeen]

@Nobody'sHero no they brought harm to me by bringing me into this world, for the record I had great parents. We ALL have to go through pain, we ALL have to die, this is undeniable. Is that not a harm to you? IDK I guess I just have a fundamental difference of opinion on harm. I've watched a few family members die close up and it was agonising unbearable pain. I just don't get how people can shrug all this suffering off. It being natural and not done deliberately doesn't make a jot of difference to how the pain feels. And parents could prevent all that, but they refuse to.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Just a thought but I think it's obvious this mother you guys are talking to is trying her very best, loves her child deeply and is also facing her own hardships, trying to overcome her mental health issues to show up for and give her child the life she deserves. She is taking responsibility for the child she created and working hard at it. What do you get out of trying to tear her down? She's always very kind and supportive to others on this site and based on her last message I'd say she's having a rough time because I don't usually see her speak to people that way. Maybe the world wouldn't be so awful if people could see other people struggling and approach them with empathy and compassion.

We don't know this person. Parents tend to hype up how amazing they are but generally, their claims should not be blindly believed. I've heard my mom gloat about all of the aspects that she believes make her a great mother, but you'll never hear her talk about stuff like whipping me with a belt just because I allowed my stepmother to do my hair (she didn't do it to point of bruising or anything, but it did make me a bit scared of her) or barging into my room one night and threatening to kick me out back when I was a child. This isn't to say that she is a bad parent or anything, she has done a lot of good things for me growing up, but rather to say that we don't know her and thus we can't say shit in regards to how she is as a mother. We are only hearing all of this from her perspective, one that is likely to be biased.

We have no clue as to what this person is like as a parent and, along with that, what she is like as a parent is completely irrelevant. We aren't talking about whether or not she is a good parent, we are talking about the morality surrounding procreation. When suffering is an inevitable part of life, then is forcing someone into existence a bad thing? Is it selfish? That answer hinges on more than whether or not someone claims to be a good parent.

If she doesn't like this conversation and it is stressing her out then she can just not engage in it. Nobody is going to go after her for not engaging in a conversation she doesn't want to have. She is in her right to do so, just as how others are in their right to respond to her arguments in favour of procreation. She was the one who responded to someone talking about how they felt having kids is bad, she decided to continue this conversation after I responded disagreeing with her, and then continued to engage with others responding in disagreement with her opinions.

I'm not going to respond to this thread any further and I apologize to the OP for derailing the thread.

 

[deadbidaylight]

This thread is toxic so I'm out too. @grapevoid thank you for understanding and going to bat for me. This is a rough subject and nails me straight in my heart. I have to disengage for my own wellbeing.

@Nobody'sHero also thank you for standing up for me. I appreciate the kind words more than you know. You are the prime example of someone who knows kindness and doesn't mind sharing it around. I value that trait, and I value you. Thank you.

Also, I would be happy to adopt you. lol. I always wanted another but due to fertility issues I won't be able to. Come on over!

 

[Nobody'sHero]

This is why... Look at this asshole bending the envelope... His smug not giving a fuck face...

 

[betternever2havbeen]

Just a thought but I think it's obvious this mother you guys are talking to is trying her very best, loves her child deeply and is also facing her own hardships, trying to overcome her mental health issues to show up for and give her child the life she deserves. She is taking responsibility for the child she created and working hard at it. What do you get out of trying to tear her down? She's always very kind and supportive to others on this site and based on her last message I'd say she's having a rough time because I don't usually see her speak to people that way. Maybe the world wouldn't be so awful if people could see other people struggling and approach them with empathy and compassion.

It's not about tearing any individual down it's about the morality of procreation in and of itself. Her kid will face way worse in the playground than some internet random having the opinion that parents are selfish. As a PP said, she inserted herself into the thread to disagree instead of just deciding not to read it anymore. This site weighs heavily towards antinatalism and the demographic as you can tell from the poll tends to be childless, practically every other site out there caters to parents and will tell her how wonderful she is. This thread isn't about supporting one poster, if she needs empathy and compassion I'm sure she'd get it if she wants to make a thread about her struggles, but this is a discussion about the morality of procreation. You don't think we're all struggling and some of the things she said were shitty towards some of us and made us feel worse too? Ofc just side with the parent, they're the only ones whose feelings matter.

 

[Nobody'sHero]

It's not about tearing any individual down it's about the morality of procreation in and of itself. Her kid will face way worse in the playground than some internet random having the opinion that parents are selfish. As a PP said, she inserted herself into the thread to disagree instead of just deciding not to read it anymore. This site weighs heavily towards antinatalism and the demographic as you can tell from the poll tends to be childless, practically every other site out there caters to parents and will tell her how wonderful she is. This thread isn't about supporting one poster, if she needs empathy and compassion I'm sure she'd get it if she wants to make a thread about her struggles, but this is a discussion about the morality of procreation. You don't think we're all struggling and some of the things she said were shitty towards some of us and made us feel worse too? Ofc just side with the parent, they're the only ones whose feelings matter.

 

[grapevoid]

I'm of the belief that people deserve empathy and compassion everywhere, in any thread, at any time, irl, on the internet, even when we don't agree with each other. It's not hard to read when someone is struggling with something. Being a good person > being right.

I mostly just ignore the antinatalist comments here because I find it highly hypocritical and close minded to the reality of other people's experiences with the world, just my opinion, but I only interjected here because its tone deaf to keep going when someone is obviously not ok Regardless of which way "this site leans" I hope you all have a wonderful day

 

[betternever2havbeen]

@grapevoid but the thread was asking if people have kids, do you not want anyone to expand on why they don't have them for fear of offending parents? Again it's not an attack on any one poster. I've been called all sorts of things as well but once again it doesn't matter that I'm struggling? Good to know.

 

[grapevoid]

@grapevoid but the thread was asking if people have kids, do you not want anyone to expand on why they don't have them for fear of offending parents? Again it's not an attack on any one poster. I've been called all sorts of things as well but once again it doesn't matter that I'm struggling? Good to know.

Look, y'all were ganging up on her basically and it was breaking her down, whether you want to acknowledge that fact or not. That being said, it absolutely matters that you're struggling which is why I'm approaching you with respect just like I would anyone else, even though I don't agree with you. There is a difference between saying ya I'm a mom and I love my kid and calling people "evil" and "selfish" because they had children. The same way it's apparently against your core beliefs to procreate, it is a lot of parents (well, people, not just parents) core belief that they are not evil and selfish LOL

If I jumped in every post that discussed children and started saying you're an evil selfish low life (basically) if you don't have kids, I'd imagine some pretty strong and emotionally charged reactions would ensue.

That being said, I respect your choice to not procreate, and you're entitled to your own opinion on the matter. I would only suggest that if you want to have a real discussion about your opinion and help people see your point of view, maybe take an approach that supports learning and open communication. Coming out the gate calling someone "selfish" who devotes and pours all their time, energy, and resources into another humans wellbeing even at the cost of their own is not only going to immediately shut down open communication but offend people (obviously) I can admit that had I been more knowledgeable when I was younger, I'd likely not have had children, but still take high offense to the sentiment that I'm evil and selfish, I have given literally every ounce of my being to ensuring my children have a better childhood than I did and set them up for success. I'm not a perfect mom, I make mistakes, AND being a parent is extremely hard sometimes. I guarantee that any decent parent you meet is extremely hard on themselves and already feels like shit half the time no matter what they do, because we have high standards for us, too.

 

[betternever2havbeen]

@grapevoid so you personally hate antinatalists or don't agree with them but we aren't allowed to have an opinion on parents, bit hypocritical but ok then...it's a suicide forum we're ALL struggling yes but I think it's telling you jump to the defence of the parent here. More people stuck up for her than were against her and even showered her with praise so not sure where you think she got ganged up on. I don't know her from Adam, don't think I've ever even spoken to her before. I was sticking up for @EvisceratedJester because they are a poster I respect and usually agree with who was getting a bashing from that particular poster. If they think having kids is selfish then that's their reasoning and they're entitled to that no matter who it offends, especially when they've been asked about it! You're basically saying we're not allowed to have our own reasons for not having kids because that's in conflict with parents. You are denying us our own personal feelings because parents might get a bit upset . This is why I said parents love to control everything. We're already not allowed to have an opinion on being brought into this world, now we're not even allowed to talk about why we don't have kids...because that's unpalatable to parents. Are we living in North Korea?

I mostly just ignore the antinatalist comments here because I find it highly hypocritical and close minded to the reality of other people's experiences with the world

That's exactly how I feel about parents.

 

[itsoverforme303]

I have no one

 

[locked*n*loaded]

You are ALL MY children

 

[grapevoid]

@grapevoid so you personally hate antinatalists or don't agree with them but we aren't allowed to have an opinion on parents, bit hypocritical but ok then...it's a suicide forum we're ALL struggling yes but I think it's telling you jump to the defence of the parent here. More people stuck up for her than were against her and even showered her with praise so not sure where you think she got ganged up on. I don't know her from Adam, don't think I've ever even spoken to her before. I was sticking up for @EvisceratedJester because they are a poster I respect and usually agree with who was getting a bashing from that particular poster. If they think having kids is selfish then that's their reasoning and they're entitled to that no matter who it offends, especially when they've been asked about it! You're basically saying we're not allowed to have our own reasons for not having kids because that's in conflict with parents. You are denying us our own personal feelings because parents might get a bit upset . This is why I said parents love to control everything. We're already not allowed to have an opinion on being brought into this world, now we're not even allowed to talk about why we don't have kids...because that's unpalatable to parents. Are we living in North Korea?


That's exactly how I feel about parents.

Well, Im not going to engage in this anymore because your black and white thinking makes it hard for us to communicate effectively but to clarify I never said I hated anyone, and I don't "hate" antinatalist, or even disagree with everything surrounding it, just find the way *some* people talk about it rude af. Like I've already stated, I respect your choice to not have children, I'm not the one trying to control or passing judgement on anyone for their life choices in this scenario so…

 

[betternever2havbeen]

@grapevoid fine but just FYI that other poster is not the one who needs defending, she's not the person who is going to feel ostracised and like she doesn't belong in this world her whole life. And having kids IS being in control, you're literally creating a whole new person, it's not merely a "life choice" that affects no one but yourself. It's over and beyond passing judgement it's saying "here's 80 years of life you HAVE to live because I decided you have to" where is the choice there?

 

[divinemistress36]

View attachment 162805holy shit this made my night

 

[ididnotconsent]

No i don't and I'm thankful. A lot of us were greatly harmed by being brought into existence and we don't want to perpetuate that.

No offense to any parents or soon to be parents. I hope you do a great job and raise awesome decent human beings.

With that being said i don't think it's a good idea. Ciao

This is pretty silly. Some beliefs, some opinions, do not deserve to be respected. I'm not going to say if this is your case, but if your set of values is hurting someone else (and you are being accused of this) then it's reasonable to be hostile to you.

We live in a world full of poverty, dictatorships, several wars and a few genocides. The "we should respect our neighbors, even when they are horrible people" mentality is just making it worse.

It's a lot more then a few genocides. Humans are beyond disgusting and cruel.

 

[grapevoid]

@grapevoid fine but just FYI that other poster is not the one who needs defending, she's not the person who is going to feel ostracised and like she doesn't belong in this world her whole life. And having kids IS being in control, you're literally creating a whole new person, it's not merely a "life choice" that affects no one but yourself. It's over and beyond passing judgement it's saying "here's 80 years of life you HAVE to live because I decided you have to" where is the choice there?

Ok, feelings aside, without being offensive, let's discuss this.
I feel this argument is flawed in the sense that you cannot violate consent of a being that does not exist, there is no conscious being to give "a choice" while I can understand the view that your life is filled with of suffering and you wish to protect future hypothetical people from enduring a similar fate, I struggle to understand the validity of the "choice" argument in terms of procreation. At the very least I would say procreation is neutral unless there is some kind of circumstance that makes it "wrong" specific to said person who is choosing to procreate. There is a chance hypothetical baby will experience more suffering than happiness but in the right circumstances there is a chance of the opposite. Wouldn't you need to weigh out the pros and cons of the decision before being able to determine it inherently wrong? Do we just ignore the things that give life meaning and fulfill hypothetical baby's life because it may coexist with some suffering? Do we violate hypothetical baby's "choice" by not giving them life therefore never giving them the chance to choose for themselves if the benefits outweigh the suffering of life?
I'm genuinely asking not trying to be facetious

 

[Dot]

honstly = frstr8tng tht ths alwys happns

incels wh/ hve terrbl rlatnshps wth thr own mothrs cme on2 ste & attck womn & mke sexst commnts & thy r rghtly warnd & bannd

Slf ws wrongd b/ sme1 frm a specfc cntry bt slf am nt goin2 attck evry1 wh/ = natve & patriotc 2 tht cntry bcse agn tht wld b 1.racsm & 2.attckng ppl frm a specfc demographc wh/ hve nothng 2 d/ wth slf persnl trmas

vegns r warnd fr attckng meat eatrs on ste bcse agn ppl r askd 2 kp convrsatns & differng perspctves civl

On a ste allegdly mde fr adlts thre r goin2 b parnts whethr ppl lke tht or nt bcse havng childrn = 1 of th/ mst biolglclly naturl thngs of n.e animl on th/ plnet & if ppl cnnt accpt tht thn thy wld b bettr off findng a specfc anti-natlism cmmunty rathr thn attckng parnts fr hw terrble thy r tht thy hd childrn

B an antinatlst or nt - fne whtevr ur opinns r ur own

Sy Y u dsagree in genrl wth havng childrn - agn fne whtevr ur opinns r ur own

bt stp attckng parnts fr xistng & jst mve on2 anothr thred

@rainwillneverstop @Dante_ cld sme1 lck ths thred pls as civl convrsatn = obvsly nt goin2 happn hre