Politicians wondering why the birth rate is dropping in the US are out of touch, willfully ignorant, and simply uneducated. Why do birth rates drop in nature? Because of a lack of resources. When the adults are starving they do not reproduce because they do not have the energy or resources to do so. Humans are not any different. When you constantly deprive working people of resources in order to make more profit, they are also deprived of the ability to provide for someone other than themselves, and the elites are therefore deprived of their precious birth rates that create more wage slaves for them. If you want a larger herd, you feed the herd.
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LostLily
Why do I exist?
- Nov 18, 2024
- 363
Considering how expensive everything , having children is a luxury.
Put aside the argument that when you have a child you are of burdening them with living in a messed up world and in a life of pain and worry.
Put aside the argument that when you have a child you are of burdening them with living in a messed up world and in a life of pain and worry.
I sympathize with the reasoning, but I don't think it matches observation.
Observation indicates the straight opposite. Birth rates are low in rich countries, and high in poor ones.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/birth-rate-by-country
I think it's a cultural thing. Children does not support the family or give much security in the modern world.
In the modern west particularly, children are a liability not giving anything back. In some parts of the world they are both free labor and a security for retirement.
(I'm intentionally painting extremes.)
The right and the left are both contributing to and trying to solve the problem, in various ways.
I don't think there's any unified agenda of the 'elites', on this.
Observation indicates the straight opposite. Birth rates are low in rich countries, and high in poor ones.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/birth-rate-by-country
I think it's a cultural thing. Children does not support the family or give much security in the modern world.
In the modern west particularly, children are a liability not giving anything back. In some parts of the world they are both free labor and a security for retirement.
(I'm intentionally painting extremes.)
The right and the left are both contributing to and trying to solve the problem, in various ways.
I don't think there's any unified agenda of the 'elites', on this.
Alexei_Kirillov
Alea iacta est. The die is cast.
- Mar 9, 2024
- 1,095
Birth rates are low even in the richest, happiest, healthiest countries. As @Hvergelmir mentioned, it's moreso a cultural thing.
My personal take is that having children has always been a pretty gnarly, disagreeable experience, especially for women, but in the past (and in impoverished countries today) people simply didn't have a choice, both due to biological (ie. sex drive) and social factors. We figured out the biological part a few decades ago with the advent of modern contraceptive methods, but the social aspect had a bit of a lag and took longer to catch up to the new reality. For example, in the 1980s it was still socially expected that pretty much everyone would have children, despite contraception being widely available.
Now, our social mores have finally caught up to the technology, and we are realizing that there isn't actually a very strong case to be made for having children, at least from an individual perspective. As such, reproduction is being left to only those who genuinely value childrearing, which is only a minority (or perhaps a plurality) of the population -- which is probably for the best.
My personal take is that having children has always been a pretty gnarly, disagreeable experience, especially for women, but in the past (and in impoverished countries today) people simply didn't have a choice, both due to biological (ie. sex drive) and social factors. We figured out the biological part a few decades ago with the advent of modern contraceptive methods, but the social aspect had a bit of a lag and took longer to catch up to the new reality. For example, in the 1980s it was still socially expected that pretty much everyone would have children, despite contraception being widely available.
Now, our social mores have finally caught up to the technology, and we are realizing that there isn't actually a very strong case to be made for having children, at least from an individual perspective. As such, reproduction is being left to only those who genuinely value childrearing, which is only a minority (or perhaps a plurality) of the population -- which is probably for the best.
Pluto
Meowing to go out
- Dec 27, 2020
- 4,250
EvisceratedJester
|| What Else Could I Be But a Jester ||
- Oct 21, 2023
- 3,870
You do realize that people in poorer countries generally lack access to sex-ed and contraceptives, right? In no way does this disprove the OP's points. Most people in wealthier nations aren't having children due to things, such as the cost of living going up and longer working hours. Being child-free is something that is generally much easier to accomplish in wealthier nations compared to many poorer ones, due to differences in access to contraceptives, sex-ed, education and job opportunities for women, rights, etc.
I proved a correlation between high GDP and low birth rates.
I'm then assuming a correlation between low GDP and low average personal wealth.
If you agree with that assumption, OPs implied claim; that low wealth leads to low birth rates is disproven, at least as an absolute.
Instead I claim that what correlation can be seen, is the inverse of that.
The Scandinavian countries have excellent child care benefits, with paid time off work for parents and free education, among many other things. The birth rates are not significantly better there than in the U.S.
All those things are also correlated with high wealth.
I think my point is still valid, but I'm not disagreeing with the other factors presented.
I perceived things from an economic perspective. Alexei did an excellent job of adding a more socionomic one.
EvisceratedJester
|| What Else Could I Be But a Jester ||
- Oct 21, 2023
- 3,870
Correlation doesn't equate to causation and in no way does this disprove the OP's points. As I've stated before, being child-free is something that is easier to accomplish in most developed nations compared to less developed nations. Along with that, Scandinavian countries also have issues with high cost of living that would still make having a child something that is undesirable, even with things like child care benefits.
I never used a correlation to support a causation, but if the hypothesized causation predicts the inverse of what's observed, it's either not a deciding factor, or it's wrong.
OP states that humans stop procreating when faced with scarcity, and specifically starvation.
The implied hypothesis is that starvation cause decreased birth rates.
This causation simply isn't supported by data. There are however plenty of correlations all indicating that the opposite might be true.
Not everyone likes data, but I do. I think it's an important tool to understand the world. If anyone have data correlating scarcity with decreased birth rates, feel free to share it.
Until then,
Hvergel, out
