Method Guns/firearms megathread

[Connonoly45]

Mexican Billionaire Carlos Martin Bringas Found Dead in Coahuila – Best Gore

www.bestgore.com

9mm to the skull, not too much blood spilt. Perfect way to go as I already have my pistol .I'm just going to assume it was a fmj based on the entry wound. Shot placement has me a little worried if it'll work with me, but I assume it will

Why wouldn't you go through the mouth to the brainstem? From what I understand the temple can be risky.

 

[Detour]

Why wouldn't you go through the mouth to the brainstem? From what I understand the temple can be risky.

I thought it didn't matter, cause either way it would be about bleeding out ? I'm not too sure, but I think hollow point would do the job with the expansion of the bullet

 

[Csmith8827]

I think guns really properly express suicide and what it truly is. SN is such a pussy way out IMO and doesn't adequately express the individuals death or answer whatever pain/torment/issue that individual was dealing with. That's why I'm totally down with the gunshot method. IMO it brings proper closure. I'd personally put a shotgun in my mouth and pull the trigger. Basically a reflection of how fucked up my life was.

 

[Connonoly45]

That picture looks pretty accurate and close, and afaik, there are shotguns that are shorter than the one in the picture. The one I have, a Mossberg Maverick 88, is 18.5 inches (in barrel length) and overall 26" inches, which makes it a bit easier to manuever. Also, the Mossberg Maverick is recommended due to it's low price.

Thanks for the response on this. So you are saying that you would put the

Hello all, I'm thrw_a_way1221221, or you can call me TAW122 if that's easier for you. In this thread, here is all the information in regards to ctb'ing via a gun/firearm.

Everyone who is suggesting or choosing to ctb via 'N' and 'A' and 'H', that's cool. However, this thread is about GUNS (Not biceps) so.

First and foremost. The obvious.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/case-fatality/

According to a 1997 study from the University of Harvard, Firearms wield a 82.5% success rate. Where as drugs have a 1.5% SUCCess rate (C what I did there)? Now of course, if you're not American, it's pretty much impossible to get a reliable gun. Although black powder is a thing, and I will get into that, because you know, I think renaissance festival enthusiasts are pretty cool (It's a joke laugh). Okay. Anywho. Let's talk guns.

I think that there has been some misconceptions with guns and reliability.

http://lostallhope.com/suicide-methods/firearms/reliability (Over 90%)
https://everytownresearch.org/firearm-suicide/ (90%)
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/suicide.htm (Suicide by firearm accounted for like 49% of all American suicides in 2015)
http://www.baltimoresun.com/health/bal-te.brain05oct05-story.html (Only 5% survive a gunshot to the head)

Drugs.
http://lostallhope.com/suicide-statistics/drug-poisoning-us



5,465 OUT OF 228,366.

'But TAW122 I can get N.'

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/06/us/06ttdrug.html

While a totally old article, it still makes valid points and has correctly predicted trends in the United States. N is being manufactured less and less, and the legal demand for it just is not there. So yes. I'm sure they still use it in Mexico and other third world countries. It is also expensive. Are you truly ready for the painstaking and irritating time of finding a dark market, finding a reliable seller, and risking criminal prosecution (such as being intercepted by customs and all that shit)?

'But TAW122, I cannot purchase guns, I R not American'

In the UK, France, Italy, Poland, Czech Republic, and Serbia, you can purchase black powder replicas without a license.

Germany and Spain won't let you. Sorry ya'll if you live there. (Try moving to another country in Europe or so if possible.)


Guns beat drugs every day of the week. Sorry guys. When it comes to reliability. This is how it works. Now. Before we get into the joys of muzzle loading and you renaissance festival lovers, we're going to discuss for everyone in North America.

If you live in the US and do not live in California, Illinois, Oregon, Washington, or New York, and you have not committed a felony, and have not broken ATF regulations. You can purchase a gun. Congratulations.

plz read the laws and make sure you follow them okay, thanks guise

If you're going to catch the bus with a firearm in the US or Canada, using anything short of a shotgun is not really reliable (unless you are experienced with firearms and know how to shoot it well, where to aim, steady hands, etc).

'But TAW122, I have a .44 revolver/only have access to a handgun.'

If you can afford a shotgun, you should REALLY consider buying one. Plus, I believe in many states long guns (aside from the anti-gun, 2A hating states) are generally easier to come by. I live in NC so I have the opposite problem (NC has a pistol purchase permit law which is a holdover from the Jim Crow era and only serves to inconvenience people to buy handguns).

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog...otguns/Maverick/Maverick+88+12GA+18.5+CYL+6RD

This bad boy costs UNDER $200 (as of current price). This is a fully functional and god-tier shotgun. The coolest part about owning a shotgun is when you cock it. It's just a sexy sound.

'But TAW122, how do I buy a gun from le Internet?'



TL;DR - Your gun is shipped to a nearby guy who has a FFL. He holds the gun. You go to his place. He does the background check. You leave with your firearm.

'But ammo'

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/656_2081/products_id/60359

This is the only round you need. This is overkill and generally good if you can get it. However, birdshot does work too, and I personally have #4 shot, which will still be sufficient especially at point blank range.

'But TAW122, I am a minor'

Well, you shouldn't own a firearm in the first place. Wait until you are an legal adult (18 in the US), and then move out and/or go and buy one.

'But TAW122, I have never shot one before'




Watch some youtube videos, go to a local range where you live or something.

'But TAW122, I live in a state with harsh gun laws'

Muzzle Loaders and Black Powder. READ EM.

'But TAW122, I am an adult, yet live with my parents'

If you buy the firearm online and have it shipped to your FFL, it should literally take 30 minutes for a background check to be completed. You can be in and out in 30 minutes. EZ PZ.

'But TAW122, I can't do that.'

Muzzle Loaders do not require an FFL. You can have shipped right to your front door.

'But TAW122, black powder/muzzle loading when?'



It is just a bit more complicated, but with enough guides and videos on the Internet, I believe you should be able to figure it out.

'TAW122, plz make a recommendation on a firearm for me'

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog...ons+P1060+Kentucky+Pistol+Percussion+50cal+10

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/97060/Mossberg+PATRIOT+20+308+Y+WAL


These are just a few examples (see above).

'But TAW122, you said not to use a handgun nor a rifle'

The first example is not a handgun. It's a hand cannon. There is a difference.

'But TAW122, I live in Europe, I can't buy my guns online'

There are many gun stores in the UK that will allow you purchase REALLY overpriced renaissance festival cosplay equipment. Remember, when you go into the gun store, you're buying it because you're going to be Ollie Cromwell or Henry the 8th or something. Act enthused and passionate.

'But TAW122, I live in East Asia (China, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, etc.)'

Gun ownership in Asia, especially in East Asia is very restricted and civilian ownership is pretty much banned.

'But TAW122, I live in Oceania, (Australia, New Zealand, Polynesia, Micronesia, etc.)'

Afaik, @stargazer has mentioned that is it very difficult to legally obtain a firearm in those countries.

'But TAW122, in the UK, licenses, licenses, licenses'

https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/guns/ammunition/back-to-black-72074

You must demonstrate a good reason for having one. Possession of, and intent to use, a gun that is only proofed for black powder is a good reason.

'But TAW122, you did not list my country, or give me adequate information.'

Ask away and I will do my best to answer them.

'TAW122, where do I aim?'

See diagram below:

The happy place is the Medulla Oblongata (I like to call it, the Medusa Origin just for the luls) aka the brain stem. Once it is hit and destroyed, death is instantaneous/near instantaneous.

Hey TAW122, thanks for all the great information. It has answered alot of questions for everybody. I was trying to create a summary to make it easy and I wanted to get your view on gun placement. Would you hold the gun like in the picture below? ​

 

[siray]

Thanks for the response on this. So you are saying that you would put the

Hey TAW122, thanks for all the great information. It has answered alot of questions for everybody. I was trying to create a summary to make it easy and I wanted to get your view on gun placement. Would you hold the gun like in the picture below?

I also have the same question. Would be grateful if one of the experts here answers this question.

The problem with holding the shotgun like this (above image of old man on chair); it's difficult to calculate the angle of the tilt of the head downwards in proportion to the angle at which the shotgun is aimed. I will have to see to it that both angles make it certain that the bullet directly hits my brainstem instead of cerebrum or thalamus (which won't be instant death I guess, not sure though).

I was planning on doing it like this:
This way you don't have to worry about tilting your head downwards. Only get the angle of the shotgun right.

 

[passepar2t]

Would wrapping your head in a towel or two beforehand help with reducing the mess?

 

[NoThanks2000]

This is a lot to take in. I plan on putting a pistol in my mouth and firing. Is this a good idea? I don't want to use a shotgun. Too much mess.

 

[Ritter]

I think guns really properly express suicide and what it truly is. SN is such a pussy way out IMO and doesn't adequately express the individuals death or answer whatever pain/torment/issue that individual was dealing with. That's why I'm totally down with the gunshot method. IMO it brings proper closure. I'd personally put a shotgun in my mouth and pull the trigger. Basically a reflection of how fucked up my life was.

I think many could say firearms are a pussy way as well. Way to choose a quick painless end, if your life is about pain/torment then why not choose a method accordingly? Those who hang themselves, jump from buildings, slice their wrists, electrocute themselves, starve, poison and so on all suffer much more and are a lot more adequate expression of suffering than the pull of a trigger and almost instantaneous exit.

I'm not at all saying firearms are actually a lesser means of exit, but if you want to start throwing shit on other methods please look at the deficits of your own.

Would wrapping your head in a towel or two beforehand help with reducing the mess?

Not at all, the slug (or even pellets) would continue through considering the powerful nature of shotguns, your head will be split/blown apart and they will continue on taking blood, brain matter, bone, etc with them.

If you're wanting to CTB at home but concerned about mess there's not too much you can do except use the bathroom, hang up plastic on the walls and ceiling, close the bathtub drain because any blood that does get beyond the plastic will congeal and clog pipes (and lets not forget the smell of decaying blood that will permeate the home, apartment, etc).

With few exceptions (because there's always a couple) firearms are considerably messy and you'd be surprised at how much blood/gore gets places you wouldn't even expect....

 

[Connonoly45]

I also have the same question. Would be grateful if one of the experts here answers this question.

The problem with holding the shotgun like this (above image of old man on chair); it's difficult to calculate the angle of the tilt of the head downwards in proportion to the angle at which the shotgun is aimed. I will have to see to it that both angles make it certain that the bullet directly hits my brainstem instead of cerebrum or thalamus (which won't be instant death I guess, not sure though).

I was planning on doing it like this:
This way you don't have to worry about tilting your head downwards. Only get the angle of the shotgun right.
View attachment 21540

This looks like a good idea. How do you plan on getting the angle of the shotgun right? I was planning to hold out my phone and take a picture so I can check that its the correct angle and keep practicing. Also do you plan to pull the trigger with your thumb or foot? Some shotguns are to long to reach with your hand in that position.

 

[Detour]

This is a lot to take in. I plan on putting a pistol in my mouth and firing. Is this a good idea? I don't want to use a shotgun. Too much mess.

What caliber ?

 

[siray]

This looks like a good idea. How do you plan on getting the angle of the shotgun right? I was planning to hold out my phone and take a picture so I can check that its the correct angle and keep practicing. Also do you plan to pull the trigger with your thumb or foot? Some shotguns are to long to reach with your hand in that position.

Yeah that will work, take a picture from your phone and judge the angle. I was planning on holding a mirror in my hand and the shotgun muzzle in mouth, and turn one of my eyeballs sideways to look at the mirror, that will give me a rough idea on the angle.

Besides, I am not doing it in my washroom anymore. I'll do it on my rooftop in the dark, so I guess I'll have to rely on imprecision. I also want to just keep it simple, not let myself think too much in the critical moment, and just pull the trigger after holding the shotgun in my mouth for a few seconds to get the angle almost right.

Problem with doing it in my washroom, don't want mother to see me like this. And don't want the paramedics coming inside my house creating a scene.
Like a lot of experts have said above, shotgun inside the mouth is overkill no matter what angle. Just don't point it TOO upwards or downwards. And put the muzzle of the shotgun as deep in your mouth as possible, and pull the trigger with your thumb (I have long hands so I can manage that). Pulling it with the foot might flinch the shotgun and fuck up your aim.

 

[Connonoly45]

Yeah, that makes sense. One idea could also be to focus less on the angle and more on where the barrel is pointed in proportion to the ear since the brain stem is located roughly at the middle of the ears. Like basically making sure the barrel is pointed towards the middle of the ear. Do you have any recommendations if I can't reach the trigger with my hand?

 

[NoThanks2000]

What caliber ?

I'm new to this all. I don't know. A Glock 45?

 

[Detour]

I'm new to this all. I don't know. A Glock 45?

if you're using it just to ctb, you're better off buying a hi point 9mm pistol they're only a couple hundred bucks. Glock 45 is also 9mm and minimum is around $530. If you plan on using a .45 caliber glock Well there's a lot of different models based on their size. If you want to go the 9mm Route id probably suggest using hollowpoints since they expand on impact and do more internal damage by making the bullet flat

 

[siray]

Yeah, that makes sense. One idea could also be to focus less on the angle and more on where the barrel is pointed in proportion to the ear since the brain stem is located roughly at the middle of the ears. Like basically making sure the barrel is pointed towards the middle of the ear. Do you have any recommendations if I can't reach the trigger with my hand?

You'll have to use your foot to pull the trigger if your hand doesn't reach. Just make sure the barrel in your mouth in locked in place and make sure your foot does not move your aim. You can hold the barrel of the shotgun tightly with both your hands. Also, practice pulling the trigger with your foot without the bullet inside.
And, DO NOT anticipate the recoil, stay dead STILL when pulling the trigger.

 

[Connonoly45]

Thanks I practiced a bit last night and was getting used to it but do you think it might be better to pull the trigger with some type of tool. Roughly the size of a screwdriver?

 

[TAW122]

Thanks I practiced a bit last night and was getting used to it but do you think it might be better to pull the trigger with some type of tool. Roughly the size of a screwdriver?

It could help, but I would rather use my toe for it because it is easier to control and depress the trigger.

 

[Ryan.s]

Handguns are perfectly functional, with the caveat that you need to use a large enough caliber. Technically speaking, any gun can work, but below a certain size threshold your chances of success drop significantly.

Modern handguns:

@Threads's preference for a .357 is well founded. A .357 is the benchmark against which all other calibers are measured for "stopping power."

Gun calibers can be extremely confusing --the more you look, the more confused you'll get-- but a good rule of thumb could be:

Revolver: anything .38 Special (marginal! --see note under ammunition) or larger --.357, .44, .45 Colt, .45ACP, etc.
Semiautomatic: anything 9mm or larger --.40, 10mm, .357Sig, .45

Avoid in either type of pistols: .22, .25, .32, .380, .38ACP. Will some of these smaller calibers work? Yes --technically. I have a .32 Auto that is likely to be my choice since it'll leave less mess than my .45ACP. The .380, aka 9mm Largo, is a good round, especially with modern ammo. BUT, you had better be very confident of your aim (I have shot competitively). If you are reading this thread with even a shadow of a doubt about where you need to aim, you should not look at these smaller calibers.

Revolver or semiautomatic?:

Revolvers are mechanically simpler and often attract less attention during purchase. You can also find them with a 2" "snub nose" barrel that makes them very easy to handle.

Semiautomatics have become far more common than revolvers, so might be easier to acquire, but they are more mechanically complex.

And once again, Hollywood is a shitty place to learn about how to use either.

Ammunition:

Always, always, always use hollowpoints, sometimes abbreviated in conversation and on the box itself "JHP" (Jacketted Hollow Point). JHPs deliver all the kinetic force of the bullet in as short a distance as possible. I.e., into your head, rather than into the wall on the other side of you. The brand doesn't matter; they all work.


If you are using a .38 Special revolver, which is marginal, look for ammunition labled "+P" or "+P+". These are designations meaning the ammunition has been loaded with more powder than the standard ammunition, and thus will deliver more power.

Do you think a .50 AE behind the ear will be a sure death? I have one, and I'm thinking about using it.

 

[TAW122]

I'm pretty sure it would be, in fact it would be overkill. The only drawback is the immense recoil that the handgun will have. The .50 AE is a really powerful handgun (handcannon due to it's power and recoil) and unless you are really experienced with it, it might be tricky to handle.

 

[Connonoly45]

A couple of questions. Did we come to the conclusion that the best placement is in the mouth? I know someone mentioned that behind the ear would work too but you need to have good aim. So just a heads up on that. Also, I thought we came to the conclusion that you would already be dead before recoil affected anything.

 

[Rdc]

Here is a video of a glock 19 fired in slo mo. The bullet leaves before the gun moves.

 

[TAW122]

A couple of questions. Did we come to the conclusion that the best placement is in the mouth? I know someone mentioned that behind the ear would work too but you need to have good aim. So just a heads up on that. Also, I thought we came to the conclusion that you would already be dead before recoil affected anything.

For long guns it is best in the mouth because of how hard it is to angle it to hit the right area of the head. As for handguns, it could go either way, but I still prefer mouth as it's easier to aim and hit the brainstem. Finally for recoil, I suppose the best thing is not to anticipate it and move it as it fires, otherwise you would over-correct the barrel and end up missing the mark.

 

[NoThanks2000]

Should I put it in my mouth or to my temple?

 

[TAW122]

Should I put it in my mouth or to my temple?

Are you using a handgun or a longgun? If using a handgun you could go either via temple (make sure to hit the brainstem) or through the mouth. If using a longgun such as a shotgun, or rifle, then through the mouth as it would be too complicated to position correctly through the side of the head. Either way, as usual, use proper ammo (meaning no .22lr's or anything for handguns; .38 special, .45 ACP, .40 S&W, 9mm hollow point, .357 magnum, etc. For longguns, .308 Winchester, 7.62x39mm semi-auto rifle, 00 buckshot, #4 shot, #2 shot, #0 shot, BB shot (the lower the number the larger the pellets), if going via a shotgun. Also for shotguns, go for 12 gauge.)

 

[NoThanks2000]

Are you using a handgun or a longgun? If using a handgun you could go either via temple (make sure to hit the brainstem) or through the mouth. If using a longgun such as a shotgun, or rifle, then through the mouth as it would be too complicated to position correctly through the side of the head. Either way, as usual, use proper ammo (meaning no .22lr's or anything for handguns; .38 special, .45 ACP, .40 S&W, 9mm hollow point, .357 magnum, etc. For longguns, .308 Winchester, 7.62x39mm semi-auto rifle, 00 buckshot, #4 shot, #2 shot, #0 shot, BB shot (the lower the number the larger the pellets), if going via a shotgun. Also for shotguns, go for 12 gauge.)

I will be using a handgun.

 

[TAW122]

I will be using a handgun.

In this case, I would go through the mouth than across the side of the head. This is because there is less dense material such as bone to get in the way of the bullet. I would not aim too high though, because you may end up destroying a non-essential to life part and end up as a vegetable, but with much less function and a lot more agony.

 

[LastRide]

Hello fellow gunlovers ! It has been an extremely interesting experience to follow this thread, and I have now come up with what I think is a really cunning plan to ctb - so I'd like to expose it to you and see whether I might have missed something important, not thought about something correctly, or whether you can help me with further suggestions !
So here it goes: I have a 12 gauge shotgun and slug ammunition, so I'll definitely use that. But after reading here all about the importance of getting the angle right, I must make some adjustments to my gun. I need to shorten the barrel (that will require a bit of handicraft, since it's a double barrel and the two barrels are on of top of another, so superimposed not juxtaposed) so I can position it correctly and still reach the trigger. Actually the trigger is a double trigger but in practise of course you never fire both triggers at once so I will have to check whether firing two shots at the same time is possible - if yes that would be really really wow ! So I then want to position the shortened shotgun on a table of something, with the wooden part safely attached with some tool to the table so when sitting comfortably on a chair in the correct position, the angle of the barrel is calculated so that I can take the tip of the barrel into my mouth and when I fire it, the slug will safely hit the brainstem. But you might think why go through the trouble of attaching the gun to the table, I could just hold it with one hand and pull the trigger with the other? Ah, that's the part where I get really really excited - because you see I want to keep one hand free, since I also have a .357 Magnum revolver with the corresponding ammunition (and yes, it's hollow-point !), and I think it would be a shame to not use that one as well, since I love it so much. Since the revolver can be cogged and then the trigger very easily released with one hand, I think I should be able to fire both shots at the same time (or maybe even three shots if the shotgun can do simultaneous firing?). Ok I promise I will practice this a few times with the empty guns so I don't get mixed up last minute with all the body movement coordination !
I just have one more thing to work out, where do I point the .357 Magnum if I already have the shotgun aimed through my mouth? Putting it just beetween the eyes, which is also a favorite location of mine, but then you need to shoot in a sloping downward angle, so I think that will be too many bullets in the same spot, since it might »meet » the slug coming up from below? Or, and that seems to me the best idea for now, keep my left hand free for the revolver, and point it at my heart. Even if you miss one location very narrowly, there's hardly any chance you could survive shots with such massive power to two vital body parts at the same time, no? So I think this should be 100% efficient, right? And also, sorry to say so, hopefully nobody will find this idea shocking - I think I'll be a lot of fun, since I have always loved handling my guns and at least I will be doing something I can identify with in my very last moments.
Any thoughts/suggestions? Thank you for your input !

 

[TAW122]

@LastRide When you shorten the barrel of a long gun (below a certain amount, without the proper license Class III Firearms license and paying a tax stamp, etc.), keep in mind you would be commiting a FELONY. I don't want to tell you what you should or shouldn't do, but you should keep that in mind whenever you are thinking of doing any alterations to a firearm. So if you aren't already going to CTB soon and/or if you ever get caught, you could end up in a much worse situation than before (not only without your firearm, but also a long prison sentence). I don't want to come down harsh on you but given that you are potentially doing something illegal that carries a heavy sentence, it would be important to know what you are getting into and just fyi, IANAL but this is just my understanding of the law.

As for using the .357 magnum and 12 gauge shotgun simultaneously, in theory/on paper, it could work, but in reality, it may be less complicated to just choose one. Personally, I'm going with the 12 gauge shotgun and I would be going through the mouth aimed at a slight angle pointed upwards. If you choose to go with the .357 magnum instead, you have two choices, you could go via the side of the head (behind the ear) to hit the brainstem, or once again, through the mouth, pointed at an angle slightly upwards.

Finally as far as your last moments alive doing something you enjoy, I guess each to their own. I would be just focusing on staying calm, not hesitating, and just making sure I succeed and be free forever. To each their own though.

 

[LastRide]

@LastRide When you shorten the barrel of a long gun (below a certain amount, without the proper license Class III Firearms license and paying a tax stamp, etc.), keep in mind you would be commiting a FELONY. I don't want to tell you what you should or shouldn't do, but you should keep that in mind whenever you are thinking of doing any alterations to a firearm. So if you aren't already going to CTB soon and/or if you ever get caught, you could end up in a much worse situation than before (not only without your firearm, but also a long prison sentence). I don't want to come down harsh on you but given that you are potentially doing something illegal that carries a heavy sentence, it would be important to know what you are getting into and just fyi, IANAL but this is just my understanding of the law.

As for using the .357 magnum and 12 gauge shotgun simultaneously, in theory/on paper, it could work, but in reality, it may be less complicated to just choose one. Personally, I'm going with the 12 gauge shotgun and I would be going through the mouth aimed at a slight angle pointed upwards. If you choose to go with the .357 magnum instead, you have two choices, you could go via the side of the head (behind the ear) to hit the brainstem, or once again, through the mouth, pointed at an angle slightly upwards.

Finally as far as your last moments alive doing something you enjoy, I guess each to their own. I would be just focusing on staying calm, not hesitating, and just making sure I succeed and be free forever. To each their own though.

Thanks for pointing out the problems with licensing if you shorten the barrel of a shotgun but that regulation is not applicable where I live...we're allowed to shorten them down to 28 cms of barrel length. I already have one that has been shortened to that but it's a 16 so not my cup of tea. But I would not want it that short anyway just short enough so the trigger stays in easy reach ! Very kind of you to worry, but all my gun detention is perfectly legal !
I am wondering also whether I am not making things too complicated by wanting to use two very different types of weapons at the same time, as you rightly pointed out....but then, first I cannot decide on which one to use, and second....it just sounds like more fun to make things a little more complex ! And third....I really really do not want to fuck it up again and not succeed....happened before....not great to wake up from...I cannot understand people who are happy they have survived, I was devasted ! So never again ! No stupid mistakes this time, which is why I am taking time to think this through....

 

[Glockman]

I'm going to risk @Threads's wrath here and --to annoy the rest of you all-- get a bit verbose.

.357Mag is the gold standard of what is popularly known as "stopping power." This is a hazy and arbitrary yardstick of what it takes for a cop to shoot a bad guy and have them go down and stay down. It is also a hotly contested yardstick, even if all of us gun-nuts agree that .357Mag is still the datum.

.357Mag won its place as the gold standard fair and square, but it won it at a time when most cops carried revolvers. Semi-autos --and therefore 9mm, .45ACP, and a host of other modern rounds-- weren't in the running. The primary contestant was the .38 Special, which is much less powerful, and thus didn't have a chance in the competition.

It should be pointed out that the military has never used the .357Mag. It has always (in the last 70 years) used the .45ACP and 9mm. And the military really, really likes stopping power.

.357Mag is still the gold standard for stopping power because it is, incontestably, a very, very powerful round. However, very few cops carry it any more except as a back-up revolver hidden somewhere under their body armor. There are two primary reasons for this: 1) Cops want more than six shots per gun, meaning they want to carry semi-autos, and there are very few (two?) semi-autos chambered in .357Mag; and 2) 9mm and .45ACP have resoundingly proven themselves to have perfectly adequate "stopping power."

Meaning 9mm and .45ACP, as well as a bunch of other calibers, all carried by LEOs and the military, have plenty of stopping power as well.

What I'm trying to explain is that while the .357Mag is an excellent choice for a caliber with which to be certain to ctb, it is not the minimum caliber capable of ensuring you ctb. There are certainly calibers that are much too small to be effective --only a complete idiot would attempt to ctb with .25ACP-- but there are many calibers less powerful than .357Mag with which you can be confident of success.

(ETA: @Threads, you're cheating: those tests are a JSP vs. FMJ. Of course the .45ACP looks pooky by comparison.)

I plan on using a .45 acp. That caliber, aimed in the mouth, through the soft palate, into the brain stem. Pretty quick and painless it would seem.