Venting I am an evil incel. Why can’t people understand?

[Red Moon]

Its one of those things in life, men have to be tough or they're seen as worthless and valueless to women, even ugly guys who get this are better with women than attractive guys who are flimsy. Don't have to be like Andrew Tate or Russell Brand, just tough. I was never seen as tough, kind of a nice guy that shouldered women, probably a simp in retrospect which is why I know I'm on the way out. I don't necessarily believe nice guys don't get women but I think the tougher you come across as the more appeal you have with women. OP has got a fair few points and I can't wait to find a method, maybe it's a case of getting tough enough to take my own life before suicide really comes together for me

That's been my problem too I don't really have that toughness or edge to me. I think I lost the genetic lottery along with having the Asperger Syndrome.

 

[derpyderpins]

1) Can't help being desperate. Sorry. I can't help that they'll see me as needy and weak because I AM needy and weak. If that's enough to not deserve love then so be it.

It's a very tough situation, right? The advice is basically that you have to lie. The solution is for you to get love and affirmation, but they tell you that you need to act like you don't need it to get it.

It's why when my SO says "how did I get so lucky?" I tell her "you were the one who agreed to give me a chance", lol. I was in a really rough place when we started dating. Swipe close to 1000 times on dating apps without a date or more than one message exchanged back and forth, it's hard to pretend you're confident.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

It's a very tough situation, right? The advice is basically that you have to lie. The solution is for you to get love and affirmation, but they tell you that you need to act like you don't need it to get it.

It's why when my SO says "how did I get so lucky?" I tell her "you were the one who agreed to give me a chance", lol. I was in a really rough place when we started dating. Swipe close to 1000 times on dating apps without a date or more than one message exchanged back and forth, it's hard to pretend you're confident.

I'm pretty terrible at lying on purpose or even to achieve a goal. I can only ever lie through omission or ignorance but never willfully. I crumble too easily. I fall apart at the thought of having to be someone I'm not, and that's sometimes why being a good person worthy of such happiness also feels impossible.

 

[derpyderpins]

I'm pretty terrible at lying on purpose or even to achieve a goal. I can only ever lie through omission or ignorance but never willfully. I crumble too easily. I fall apart at the thought of having to be someone I'm not, and that's sometimes why being a good person worthy of such happiness also feels impossible.

Not being able to lie is suggestive of being a good person, though.

No such thing as being "worthy" of happiness/affection. And that's a good thing! You either get it or you don't. There are plenty of couples where neither of them would be "worthy" in a just world. The table is definitely tilted right now - which is why I do try to empathize with "incels", even if they've reached the point of lashing out - but it's not impossible.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Not being able to lie is suggestive of being a good person, though.

No such thing as being "worthy" of happiness/affection. And that's a good thing! You either get it or you don't. There are plenty of couples where neither of them would be "worthy" in a just world. The table is definitely tilted right now - which is why I do try to empathize with "incels", even if they've reached the point of lashing out - but it's not impossible.

I don't know. Even though my crush has since given me slightly more encouraging signals it's still not enough to get me to fully lock in. I'm still not absolutely sure if it's even ethical for me to approach her at this point. It feels more like I should just give up.

 

[ms_beaverhousen]

No you don't. The "hot" depressed artist has girls falling all over him. They love him just the way he is. A girl who think she's "fat and ugly" just because she has curves instead of a stick-figure model body doesn't need to believe "she is worthy of love". They both easily have someone love them and that's what makes them believe it's possible which inevitably improves their self-image.

Think about it, really think for those types of who fit those categories and say they 'never find anyone'. I have friend's exactly like this. How many girls did hot guy turn down? Pump and Dump? Use for a week then cry over how she isn't as good as the girl who dumped him 3 years ago? How many male orbiters does the girl have? Friendzoned simps whose shoulders she cries on that are perfectly decent guys, but 'there isn't anything there' aka he's too short, ugly, poor, fat, submissive or whatever else you can see like a spotlight, but she never wants to say out loud?

At least 2/each off the top of my head for each that fall within that group in my life. These people are the embodiment of narcissistic hypocrisy. They want all the benefits of success, while also wanting all the pity-benefits an attractive person gets from failure, even though they're aren't failing whatsoever.

That's because they're sheep. A product of the system. Another statistical, mediocre cop-out on a love life gone bad. It's the ones who think for themselves and portray honest versions of themselves that have similar value and interest systems (at least at the core) who hold up. Plus pheromones are a bitch.

In case you haven't seen my last status, which to be fair, why would you? On Monday I had a full-on panic attack during my shift at work. The girl I have a crush on wasn't working that day but she was there all the same, shopping with another man. I didn't get time to check if this man was actually cucking me or not but it doesn't matter because of the way she looked at me when she saw me. She looked kind of terrified to see me because she immediately turned away instead of even acknowledging or trying to greet me. That was all she needed to do. I think it's well and truly over. I think September might be too late. I really want to CTB sooner while the despair is still icy hot but I still need to prepare some more.

Now I know what you might be thinking, "so what? Just move on, idiot." Well guess what? I don't want to. I give up on life but I will not give up on her because I feel like this is a good reminder of why I need to die in the first place. She clearly hates me and the second I foolishly move on to someone else is the moment I set my heart up to just get broken again. I feel like even if I did manage to find someone at this point I'm carrying so much anger and trauma from my previous rejections that whoever is stupid enough to give me a chance is in for a rude awakening. I fear I will become like my father where all I can do is solve my issues with yelling and violence. I wish he had killed himself but he never would. The only way I can move forward is to move away from living.

I'm sorry. I'm so sorry that I'm so pathetic that I had a real life or death panic attack just because I got implicitly rejected. I'm such a cowardly spineless disgusting little creep for placing all my self worth into someone who must know how evil I am and that's why she doesn't like me. There's people here suffering from real problems and here I am being this affected by something as mundane and pathetic as this. Even other incels face genuine issues with having a lack of height or friends. I'm six feet tall and have lots of friends and yet I still managed to fuck up so badly that I'm a 30 year old kissless, dateless virgin. I'm so sorry I have all this power and yet I've done nothing but waste it on my own fears. I have so many things that so many others here want to kill themselves for not being able to have and yet I can't make anything out of it. I can't make a life worth living all I can make is more misery and suffering for the poor females I eventually come to feel attraction for.

I'm so sorry and it's just not enough. The longer I'm allowed to continue to live the more I'll potentially ruin their lives by having me be attracted to them.

I truly feel the only way I can prevent further pain is by CTB. It's the only comfort I have left. I don't care if my family and friends don't want me to. I don't care about their feelings. If anything, I laugh at the fact they were tricked by someone as stupid as me into caring. None of them even actually want to help me in a way that actually makes sense to me. All I get told is the same cliche stupid platitudes like how I'm not an incel, I'm not evil, I can find someone. Shut up already! Why the fuck would I not be an incel if I made it this long as a virgin? They then say that 30 isn't that old. YES. IT. IS. Be fucking for serious. If I was someone they didn't know or someone they disagree with of course they'd believe that a 30 year old virgin is pathetic. Why am I so special? I'm not! I'm not special and that's why my death should mean nothing to them!

I have two more days off of work before I see her next but I don't expect things will get any better anytime soon. If you're still here, thanks for seeing this shitty rant I guess. It's not like it means anything. I just wanted to occupy some space and maybe grab some attention. I don't know. I want love so bad but I know I don't deserve it. I know that even if I move on I'll never fully be over this current interest and that's no fair to whoever comes next. My panic attack was related to me hurting people around me. I almost injured someone with the cart I was pushing because I was so distracted.

I don't agree with everything Jordan Peterson says about incels, and I haven't watched enough of him to get a proper perspective on him, but I've just found him to be genuine and interesting. I could end up despising him for all I know if I kept watching his interviews etc. You might look him up if you're not willing to find a decent therapist to talk to. 30 isn't as young as people think. It fucking sucks. So make up for it. Don't waste anymore time on stupid shit. Find your priorities. This girl you like may be a total ignorant, vapid, catty bitch for all you know. You have to be practical and logical. Steeling peeks at her every chance shows that you're not confident and that you may have something negative to hide. That's not enticing or appealing, or even safe. You're your own person. You control if you're violent or you yell. A son of a rapist may inherit worries that he's capable of such a thing and may psyche himself out and cause himself distress when there's zero chance of him every assaulting a woman. That's anxiety. Fight fear with facts, and practice. You have some unhealthy patterns but they seem truly repairable. You could use your story to tell dudes how you were, what behaviors and feelings you allowed yourself to be reduced to, and how you became aware of them and overcame them and found a healthy sex and love life. That men don't have to be made to be reduced to "incels" because they reached full adulthood without any real female companionship because of their own fears. Be an example. Make a podcast. Write a blog. From pathetic to poetic. Change the meaning of an incel for god sake's because we're sick of hearing it used as a disability. Not that it's not hell and painful. Pain is subjective. I'd rather cut off my own ankle in the style than Saw and be able to take back my mistakes. I feel like a weak fuck myself for my own reasons because I know people have not had the opportunities I have but are productive and resilient. My story doesn't apply because I'm unsavable, but from your posts, you have the power to help yourself. You have enough intellect to figure it out. Just dont waste another 30yrs because life is too god damn short. How much more time are you willing to give up for what life you could be having now?

In case you haven't seen my last status, which to be fair, why would you? On Monday I had a full-on panic attack during my shift at work. The girl I have a crush on wasn't working that day but she was there all the same, shopping with another man. I didn't get time to check if this man was actually cucking me or not but it doesn't matter because of the way she looked at me when she saw me. She looked kind of terrified to see me because she immediately turned away instead of even acknowledging or trying to greet me. That was all she needed to do. I think it's well and truly over. I think September might be too late. I really want to CTB sooner while the despair is still icy hot but I still need to prepare some more.

Now I know what you might be thinking, "so what? Just move on, idiot." Well guess what? I don't want to. I give up on life but I will not give up on her because I feel like this is a good reminder of why I need to die in the first place. She clearly hates me and the second I foolishly move on to someone else is the moment I set my heart up to just get broken again. I feel like even if I did manage to find someone at this point I'm carrying so much anger and trauma from my previous rejections that whoever is stupid enough to give me a chance is in for a rude awakening. I fear I will become like my father where all I can do is solve my issues with yelling and violence. I wish he had killed himself but he never would. The only way I can move forward is to move away from living.

I'm sorry. I'm so sorry that I'm so pathetic that I had a real life or death panic attack just because I got implicitly rejected. I'm such a cowardly spineless disgusting little creep for placing all my self worth into someone who must know how evil I am and that's why she doesn't like me. There's people here suffering from real problems and here I am being this affected by something as mundane and pathetic as this. Even other incels face genuine issues with having a lack of height or friends. I'm six feet tall and have lots of friends and yet I still managed to fuck up so badly that I'm a 30 year old kissless, dateless virgin. I'm so sorry I have all this power and yet I've done nothing but waste it on my own fears. I have so many things that so many others here want to kill themselves for not being able to have and yet I can't make anything out of it. I can't make a life worth living all I can make is more misery and suffering for the poor females I eventually come to feel attraction for.

I'm so sorry and it's just not enough. The longer I'm allowed to continue to live the more I'll potentially ruin their lives by having me be attracted to them.

I truly feel the only way I can prevent further pain is by CTB. It's the only comfort I have left. I don't care if my family and friends don't want me to. I don't care about their feelings. If anything, I laugh at the fact they were tricked by someone as stupid as me into caring. None of them even actually want to help me in a way that actually makes sense to me. All I get told is the same cliche stupid platitudes like how I'm not an incel, I'm not evil, I can find someone. Shut up already! Why the fuck would I not be an incel if I made it this long as a virgin? They then say that 30 isn't that old. YES. IT. IS. Be fucking for serious. If I was someone they didn't know or someone they disagree with of course they'd believe that a 30 year old virgin is pathetic. Why am I so special? I'm not! I'm not special and that's why my death should mean nothing to them!

I have two more days off of work before I see her next but I don't expect things will get any better anytime soon. If you're still here, thanks for seeing this shitty rant I guess. It's not like it means anything. I just wanted to occupy some space and maybe grab some attention. I don't know. I want love so bad but I know I don't deserve it. I know that even if I move on I'll never fully be over this current interest and that's no fair to whoever comes next. My panic attack was related to me hurting people around me. I almost injured someone with the cart I was pushing because I was so distracted.

She may be gone. She may come around if you showed her that you can handle a conversation with her without making yourself or her uncomfortable. Realistically, do you even know her? Or just want to? Sometimes the illusion is better than reality, and we delude ourselves to save us the pain. You're going to get hurt again. We all risk it. It's encoded in the game, but you play to win. That quote, this isn't correct, but it's something like, "...better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all..." So it's up to you really. There's this professor or who I came across...
I don't agree with everything he, Jordan Peterson, says about incels, and I haven't watched enough of him to get a proper perspective on him, but I've just found him to be genuine and interesting. I could end up despising him for all I know if I kept watching his interviews etc. You might look him up if you're not willing to find a decent therapist to talk to. 30 isn't as young as people think. It fucking sucks. So make up for it. Don't waste anymore time on stupid shit. Find your priorities. This girl you like may be a total ignorant, vapid, catty bitch for all you know. You have to be practical and logical. Steeling peeks at her every chance shows that you're not confident and that you may have something negative to hide. That's not enticing or appealing, or even safe. You're your own person. You control if you're violent or you yell. A son of a rapist may inherit worries that he's capable of such a thing and may psyche himself out and cause himself distress when there's zero chance of him every assaulting a woman. That's anxiety. Fight fear with facts, and practice. You have some unhealthy patterns but they seem truly repairable. You could use your story to tell dudes how you were, what behaviors and feelings you allowed yourself to be reduced to, and how you became aware of them and overcame them and found a healthy sex and love life. That men don't have to be made to be reduced to "incels" because they reached full adulthood without any real female companionship because of their own fears. Be an example. Make a podcast. Write a blog. From pathetic to poetic. Change the meaning of an incel for god sake's because we're sick of hearing it used as a disability. Not that it's not hell and painful. Pain is subjective. I'd rather cut off my own ankle in the style than Saw and be able to take back my mistakes. I feel like a weak fuck myself for my own reasons because I know people have not had the opportunities I have but are productive and resilient. My story doesn't apply because I'm unsavable, but from your posts, you have the power to help yourself. You have enough intellect to figure it out. Just dont waste another 30yrs because life is too god damn short. How much more time are you willing to give up for what life you could be having now?

 

[derpyderpins]

I don't know. Even though my crush has since given me slightly more encouraging signals it's still not enough to get me to fully lock in. I'm still not absolutely sure if it's even ethical for me to approach her at this point. It feels more like I should just give up.

It's not ethical? Are you a dangerous person? Are you going to hurt this girl? Cheat on her? Stay at home and make her provide? Scream at and emotionally abuse her? Diddle her pet bunny rabbit?

Or is it just your evaluation of your social value?

I don't know you. Maybe you are below average looking. Obviously you lack confidence and are shy which makes things difficult. Maybe you have other bad qualities like you suck at spelling or file your taxes late. These are real issues.

But this "unethical", "evil" talk is you not being honest. You're a well meaning, decent person, who - based on what I see here - is pretty nice to chat and hang with. You might have those other issues and you might never get this girl, but I'll tell you this: if you don't like lying, start by not lying to yourself.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

She may be gone. She may come around if you showed her that you can handle a conversation with her without making yourself or her uncomfortable. Realistically, do you even know her? Or just want to? Sometimes the illusion is better than reality, and we delude ourselves to save us the pain. You're going to get hurt again. We all risk it. It's encoded in the game, but you play to win. That quote, this isn't correct, but it's something like, "...better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all..." So it's up to you really. There's this professor or who I came across...
I don't agree with everything he, Jordan Peterson, says about incels, and I haven't watched enough of him to get a proper perspective on him, but I've just found him to be genuine and interesting. I could end up despising him for all I know if I kept watching his interviews etc. You might look him up if you're not willing to find a decent therapist to talk to. 30 isn't as young as people think. It fucking sucks. So make up for it. Don't waste anymore time on stupid shit. Find your priorities. This girl you like may be a total ignorant, vapid, catty bitch for all you know. You have to be practical and logical. Steeling peeks at her every chance shows that you're not confident and that you may have something negative to hide. That's not enticing or appealing, or even safe. You're your own person. You control if you're violent or you yell. A son of a rapist may inherit worries that he's capable of such a thing and may psyche himself out and cause himself distress when there's zero chance of him every assaulting a woman. That's anxiety. Fight fear with facts, and practice. You have some unhealthy patterns but they seem truly repairable. You could use your story to tell dudes how you were, what behaviors and feelings you allowed yourself to be reduced to, and how you became aware of them and overcame them and found a healthy sex and love life. That men don't have to be made to be reduced to "incels" because they reached full adulthood without any real female companionship because of their own fears. Be an example. Make a podcast. Write a blog. From pathetic to poetic. Change the meaning of an incel for god sake's because we're sick of hearing it used as a disability. Not that it's not hell and painful. Pain is subjective. I'd rather cut off my own ankle in the style than Saw and be able to take back my mistakes. I feel like a weak fuck myself for my own reasons because I know people have not had the opportunities I have but are productive and resilient. My story doesn't apply because I'm unsavable, but from your posts, you have the power to help yourself. You have enough intellect to figure it out. Just dont waste another 30yrs because life is too god damn short. How much more time are you willing to give up for what life you could be having now?

Sometimes I can converse with her but I've been unable to find a common thread to consistently grant me the confidence required. I know she likes music since that's what she's studying at the local community college. From what I can gather, she seems really cool and confident but even if that's just a front it would be fine with me. I know she's played Baldur's Gate 3 and some other games from the same studio but I don't know enough about what other things she likes. The problem is the only time I really get to talk to her is when I'm working near her and even then we can't talk too long because the managers try to be vigilant in preventing idle chatter. We rarely get to synchronize breaks too. I do have her added as a friend on Discord but everytime I've sent a message to her there she hasn't actually responded to me so…I haven't tried to send anything out of the blue since then. That was why I thought she must hate me and want nothing to do with me and yet half the time I also receive conflicting signals that indicate maybe she is interested in me, at least according to people I talk to. Other coworkers tell me all the time about how other female coworkers all seem to find me attractive for whatever reason that I genuinely don't understand. I'm not trying to brag here, I am just repeating what people have told me. I know looks aren't enough to fully transcend inceldom anyway and mine are really not that good I don't understand why people think I look good. I'm only six feet, not six foot four or something. My arms are skinny but I'm also fat so I don't think I'm attractive at all. I mean the one I like has complimented me on my height before and even said I must have good genes but maybe that was just talking and not flirting like I thought. I wouldn't know because I have no idea.

As for monetizing my weakness in order to overcome it, it's a tempting idea. I don't believe I have a good voice for it though. Many people think my voice doesn't match a 6ft tall 30 year old man. Imagine Morty from Rick and Morty but somehow higher pitched, more nasally, and more grating to the ears. That's how I sound.

It's not ethical? Are you a dangerous person? Are you going to hurt this girl? Cheat on her? Stay at home and make her provide? Scream at and emotionally abuse her? Diddle her pet bunny rabbit?

Or is it just your evaluation of your social value?

I don't know you. Maybe you are below average looking. Obviously you lack confidence and are shy which makes things difficult. Maybe you have other bad qualities like you suck at spelling or file your taxes late. These are real issues.

But this "unethical", "evil" talk is you not being honest. You're a well meaning, decent person, who - based on what I see here - is pretty nice to chat and hang with. You might have those other issues and you might never get this girl, but I'll tell you this: if you don't like lying, start by not lying to yourself.

I don't plan to do any of that, no. I know I'm not confident and as I said before, this lack of confidence certainly overrides any perceived physical attractiveness I may have but confidence has to come from within and unfortunately there just isn't any in here, perhaps there never was any to begin with.

I say unethical because I know it's not right for me to have to have someone else suffer by knowing me. They say that limerence causes the limerence target to suffer far more than the person feeling limerent in the first place so if I am suffering this much then imagine how much pain and terror she must be facing! Even if somehow she does reciprocate, that would just be delaying the problems I have going down the line. I always say that if I were to get a relationship I could finally feel motivated enough to work on improving myself but sometimes I'm just not sure. I already know I definitely don't have the energy to work on myself without someone so why try? It's evil of me to even expect someone to help me when I can't even help myself.

 

[tbroken]

Sometimes I can converse with her but I've been unable to find a common thread to consistently grant me the confidence required. I know she likes music since that's what she's studying at the local community college. From what I can gather, she seems really cool and confident but even if that's just a front it would be fine with me. I know she's played Baldur's Gate 3 and some other games from the same studio but I don't know enough about what other things she likes. The problem is the only time I really get to talk to her is when I'm working near her and even then we can't talk too long because the managers try to be vigilant in preventing idle chatter. We rarely get to synchronize breaks too. I do have her added as a friend on Discord but everytime I've sent a message to her there she hasn't actually responded to me so…I haven't tried to send anything out of the blue since then. That was why I thought she must hate me and want nothing to do with me and yet half the time I also receive conflicting signals that indicate maybe she is interested in me, at least according to people I talk to. Other coworkers tell me all the time about how other female coworkers all seem to find me attractive for whatever reason that I genuinely don't understand. I'm not trying to brag here, I am just repeating what people have told me. I know looks aren't enough to fully transcend inceldom anyway and mine are really not that good I don't understand why people think I look good. I'm only six feet, not six foot four or something. My arms are skinny but I'm also fat so I don't think I'm attractive at all. I mean the one I like has complimented me on my height before and even said I must have good genes but maybe that was just talking and not flirting like I thought. I wouldn't know because I have no idea.

As for monetizing my weakness in order to overcome it, it's a tempting idea. I don't believe I have a good voice for it though. Many people think my voice doesn't match a 6ft tall 30 year old man. Imagine Morty from Rick and Morty but somehow higher pitched, more nasally, and more grating to the ears. That's how I sound.


I don't plan to do any of that, no. I know I'm not confident and as I said before, this lack of confidence certainly overrides any perceived physical attractiveness I may have but confidence has to come from within and unfortunately there just isn't any in here, perhaps there never was any to begin with.

I say unethical because I know it's not right for me to have to have someone else suffer by knowing me. They say that limerence causes the limerence target to suffer far more than the person feeling limerent in the first place so if I am suffering this much then imagine how much pain and terror she must be facing! Even if somehow she does reciprocate, that would just be delaying the problems I have going down the line. I always say that if I were to get a relationship I could finally feel motivated enough to work on improving myself but sometimes I'm just not sure. I already know I definitely don't have the energy to work on myself without someone so why try? It's evil of me to even expect someone to help me when I can't even help myself.

Mmm... I red both these posts and part of your diary in the status. I remember that you even saw her hanging with another guy one time. You don't have to answer the next questions if you don't want, but I'm just curious.
Is this your first crush ever? Did someone refuse you in the past and made you insecure somehow?
Imo since you are virgin you are trying to achieve this strange thing between love(crush) and 'first time' that will not work 99%, because she is for sure more experienced than you and she's searching(maybe she isn't even searching) for a more experienced guy. Does she know that you don't have sexual experience?
I mean, we live in an open-minded world and personally i don't judge other ppl, on the contrary I would like you to succeed in your goal, if she likes it too.
Also... Do you consider yourself pretty, apart from being incel and stuff? Is she pretty? Do other guys chase her?

I mean, i'm not you so i cannot judge nor fully understand your mind and experience, but from an honest pov I would say that you're giving this thing too much importance.

In my country men in the past lost their virginity with who*** and many still do and then they find 'love' or in many cases a person that share some sort of affinity with them or was good in wify things, or trophy wife etc...

 

[Werewolf.]

Fellow incel here! I have been a part of the incel forum since the first day it existed. Nay, in fact even before! I was in the same Discord channel as the administrator and he announced its creation a few hours beforehand. Six years later and I'm still as lonely as ever. But I'm unattractive and male, so nobody cares.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Is this your first crush ever? Did someone refuse you in the past and made you insecure somehow?

This is my fourth love interest. I guess one could say it's only my second crush ever. Two of the other women (the second and third ones) were the ones to approach me first after expressing initial interest but eventually left me for probably good reasons. One of them, the third one, was even from SS. I've had minor crushes here and there but they tend to get dropped easily so they don't affect me. My first crush was someone who moved to my school in 5th grade. I didn't even get close to getting over her until my second year of college. I guess you could say all of these experiences contributed a great deal to my already innate insecurity.

Imo since you are virgin you are trying to achieve this strange thing between love(crush) and 'first time' that will not work 99%, because she is for sure more experienced than you and she's searching(maybe she isn't even searching) for a more experienced guy. Does she know that you don't have sexual experience?

I don't know if she knows. I've told some other coworkers that I've never had a relationship or even been on a date or held hands even though I'm 30. Most people react with shock and bewilderment but at least some people understand that it's due to my lack of confidence. I've been told my inexperience is something I shouldn't allow to weigh me down (it has) but I don't know if I can discount it altogether going forward. I was also anxious that maybe she did like me at some point and expected me to take more initiative with her but I have no idea if she's traditionalist like that. Surely if she wasn't she'd know she can ask me first? I kind of doubt it otherwise she would have made some move by now though…

Also... Do you consider yourself pretty, apart from being incel and stuff? Is she pretty? Do other guys chase her?

Yeah I'm pretty, pretty stupid. No but really I just look young and have over 180 centimeters in height but I don't think I'm actually that attractive. Anyone who looks closer would be able to see the imperfections of my face like the random splotch on the side of my face that's a slightly different skin tone. Or maybe the weird bump on the bone of my nose. Or my double chin. Or my fat stomach. Or my tiny hands/fingers.

She on the other hand is pretty pretty, to me I think. I'm not going to describe her features here like I'm an erotica writer but take my word that those features of her are pretty great. There's a slight height difference between her and I, she's like 5'3, but I'm actually fine with that, at least I am more than I was initially. I don't know if other guys like her but I wouldn't be surprised. There was a scare that maybe the other coworker I made best friends with might also like her but if he did he would have told me because I already told him I like her and he seems cool enough to not hide that from me.

 

[Werewolf.]

I just read the opening post. My previous post was just a response to the title. Well, I'm similar to you in many ways. Except I'm two years your junior. I am a 28 year old dateless KHHV. I also had/have feelings for someone I liked a lot. I like(d) them for almost ten years now. I already told you I am unattractive, so it's no surprise when she rejected me a couple of years ago. I expected it anyway. I was nothing more to her than a pathetic creep. She had her wedding last December. We had many things in common, she and I. That's why I inevitably started to develop feelings for her. I wish I hadn't. It ended with me being crushed, feeling totally hopeless. Her husband lives thousands of miles away. So I could bear the heartache, it seemed distant to me in a way. Yesterday, I heard her husband moved in with her. And suddenly, it hit too close to home. Literally. She only lives a block away from me. No, THEY live a block away from me. And I don't think I can handle the sadness, the jealousy and the shame I am bound to experience all at once when I will inevitably see them together if I were to step outside. I don't know what he looks like and I don't plan on finding out. All I know is that he's obviously attractive, unlike me. How sad I am, how happy they are. And yet we are only a few meters away from each other. I refuse to leave my house. I made plans with friends but I'm going to cancel. I cannot risk seeing them outside together. I just don't want to. I have the rest of this week and the next week off, so I don't have to go outside. Luckily, after that, I only have to leave the house once a week only. At a time too early to run into anyone at all, and I return at a time too late to run into them. I'll just walk a different path back home. Just so I can avoid them.

 

[Abyssal]

Do yourself a favour and ditch the TRP/Incel online communities — that stuff is toxic to men as well as women.

I've seen so many decent men who aren't ugly, who have kindness in their hearts be led astray by incel community. It's often a women hating community, but it's built on bringing down other men. It's easier said than done but I believe all men would be more mentally healthy were they to ditch incel groups.

That said, I hold nothing against OP, they seem to be experiencing something even I relate with, but it's for that reason that I wish to see them get out of a community that hurts them.

 

[Aloneandinpain]

Dating for average guys is simply torture.

It's weird how alcohol, cigarettes, etc get health warnings or even bans yet there's no such warning if you're a guy on a dating app.

Being an alcoholic would be far less damaging than using a dating app and just getting matched with no one, scammers or 1 out of 10 obese black women who just swipe right on everyone anyway.

Even suicide would be more fun than a dating app because at least something happens and there's no time wasted.

I'm hoping I just get so depressed that I can just approach women randomly and not even care about all the rejections and awkwardness, but I'm just to sensitive for that

 

[tbroken]

This is my fourth love interest. I guess one could say it's only my second crush ever. Two of the other women (the second and third ones) were the ones to approach me first after expressing initial interest but eventually left me for probably good reasons. One of them, the third one, was even from SS. I've had minor crushes here and there but they tend to get dropped easily so they don't affect me. My first crush was someone who moved to my school in 5th grade. I didn't even get close to getting over her until my second year of college. I guess you could say all of these experiences contributed a great deal to my already innate insecurity.


I don't know if she knows. I've told some other coworkers that I've never had a relationship or even been on a date or held hands even though I'm 30. Most people react with shock and bewilderment but at least some people understand that it's due to my lack of confidence. I've been told my inexperience is something I shouldn't allow to weigh me down (it has) but I don't know if I can discount it altogether going forward. I was also anxious that maybe she did like me at some point and expected me to take more initiative with her but I have no idea if she's traditionalist like that. Surely if she wasn't she'd know she can ask me first? I kind of doubt it otherwise she would have made some move by now though…


Yeah I'm pretty, pretty stupid. No but really I just look young and have over 180 centimeters in height but I don't think I'm actually that attractive. Anyone who looks closer would be able to see the imperfections of my face like the random splotch on the side of my face that's a slightly different skin tone. Or maybe the weird bump on the bone of my nose. Or my double chin. Or my fat stomach. Or my tiny hands/fingers.

She on the other hand is pretty pretty, to me I think. I'm not going to describe her features here like I'm an erotica writer but take my word that those features of her are pretty great. There's a slight height difference between her and I, she's like 5'3, but I'm actually fine with that, at least I am more than I was initially. I don't know if other guys like her but I wouldn't be surprised. There was a scare that maybe the other coworker I made best friends with might also like her but if he did he would have told me because I already told him I like her and he seems cool enough to not hide that from me.

Thanks, you call yourself insecure but you still thought me a beautiful lesson, as everyone's experience is unique.
I think you write all this status not because you are insecure, but because you want to have a decent sexual experience and not a paid one and you are just putting all your efforts in it. It is not an evil thing(even if you think so), it is just your goal. Truly evil ppl don't even doubt themselves and just act reclessely.
What is your and her's job btw?(if you want to answer).
Your goal is your goal, but if you want my opinion, you are trying a very difficult mission( you are trying to have all things at once first time+crush+job) and also you are not measuring the consequences... She may expect something later, like a relationship with a mature man and you will have to do/learn all this stuff at once... It is not something that you can just think about, only experience can teach you the proper way.
But anyway, if this is your goal, i would just not loose all this time and try a more aggressive approach, instead of looking at fingers and stuff, ask her more direct questions and try to close the match. If you spend so much times fantasizing on this relationship only, you may loose other opportunities...

 

[derpyderpins]

I say unethical because I know it's not right for me to have to have someone else suffer by knowing me. They say that limerence causes the limerence target to suffer far more than the person feeling limerent in the first place so if I am suffering this much then imagine how much pain and terror she must be facing! Even if somehow she does reciprocate, that would just be delaying the problems I have going down the line. I always say that if I were to get a relationship I could finally feel motivated enough to work on improving myself but sometimes I'm just not sure.

Understand boundaries and I wouldn't worry about the what people say about limerence. If you don't do those bad things it'll be fine.

Motivation to work on yourself in the face of failure... That is tough.

I already know I definitely don't have the energy to work on myself without someone so why try? It's evil of me to even expect someone to help me when I can't even help myself.

What if someone far worse of than you came up to you, unable to help themselves. Do you think you would try to help? If so, why do you assume it's evil to ask for help when you need it?

 

[BrainShower]

I'm sorry, there is no dating service that uses "dick size" as a measurement of anything. That's just totally not a real thing at all.

Insecurity sucks, I know, I have dealt with massive amounts of it in my life. There is no easy answer to fix it either. You just have to acclimate to the pain of it, or don't and be single forever, or ctb.

This life is mostly pain. If you can endure enough of it, you can find happiness. I am always on the cusp, one day to the next can be totally different. I don't believe it should be this way, but it is and I can do nothing to change that.

 

[tbroken]

I'm sorry, there is no dating service that uses "dick size" as a measurement of anything. That's just totally not a real thing at all.

Insecurity sucks, I know, I have dealt with massive amounts of it in my life. There is no easy answer to fix it either. You just have to acclimate to the pain of it, or don't and be single forever, or ctb.

This life is mostly pain. If you can endure enough of it, you can find happiness. I am always on the cusp, one day to the next can be totally different. I don't believe it should be this way, but it is and I can do nothing to change that.

Mostly true. But imo the most important thing is what comes next, relationships are far more difficult than that. He makes all this drama just for knowing that girl, imagine when he is in the relationship, what will happen?
Plus, in little spaces like job, school and stuff you really have to have a big self esteem or 'power' to overcome failure/things going wrong. That's why many men focus on themselves and build their fortune instead of getting in relationships with women.
I don't know if is CPTSD speaking or what, but the more i advance in life, the less i believe in any kind of social thing, especially relationships. Also i have always negative expectations about what ppl will do to me.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I just read the opening post. My previous post was just a response to the title. Well, I'm similar to you in many ways. Except I'm two years your junior. I am a 28 year old dateless KHHV. I also had/have feelings for someone I liked a lot. I like(d) them for almost ten years now. I already told you I am unattractive, so it's no surprise when she rejected me a couple of years ago. I expected it anyway. I was nothing more to her than a pathetic creep. She had her wedding last December. We had many things in common, she and I. That's why I inevitably started to develop feelings for her. I wish I hadn't. It ended with me being crushed, feeling totally hopeless. Her husband lives thousands of miles away. So I could bear the heartache, it seemed distant to me in a way. Yesterday, I heard her husband moved in with her. And suddenly, it hit too close to home. Literally. She only lives a block away from me. No, THEY live a block away from me. And I don't think I can handle the sadness, the jealousy and the shame I am bound to experience all at once when I will inevitably see them together if I were to step outside. I don't know what he looks like and I don't plan on finding out. All I know is that he's obviously attractive, unlike me. How sad I am, how happy they are. And yet we are only a few meters away from each other. I refuse to leave my house. I made plans with friends but I'm going to cancel. I cannot risk seeing them outside together. I just don't want to. I have the rest of this week and the next week off, so I don't have to go outside. Luckily, after that, I only have to leave the house once a week only. At a time too early to run into anyone at all, and I return at a time too late to run into them. I'll just walk a different path back home. Just so I can avoid them.

This situation you're in genuinely really sucks, man. Way worse than mine I feel. To be living so close to the one I love while they are with someone else is a fate I couldn't even imagine. No matter how ugly you are, you have the will of a billion Navy SEALs for even being alive right now.

That said, I hold nothing against OP, they seem to be experiencing something even I relate with, but it's for that reason that I wish to see them get out of a community that hurts them.

As I've said before in other threads, I'm not a part of the incel community. I barely know any incel terminology nor do I watch a single incel content creator and I never even made an account on incels.is. I feel like they would all just harp on my wasted potential from how tall I am or something like that so I don't bother. Just because I'm not a member of the community doesn't mean I'm not one though. There are vegans and vegetarians who don't attack meat eaters, Atheists who don't attack the religious, and incels who don't hate women. These can all be true.

Dating for average guys is simply torture.

It's weird how alcohol, cigarettes, etc get health warnings or even bans yet there's no such warning if you're a guy on a dating app.

Being an alcoholic would be far less damaging than using a dating app and just getting matched with no one, scammers or 1 out of 10 obese black women who just swipe right on everyone anyway.

Even suicide would be more fun than a dating app because at least something happens and there's no time wasted.

I'm hoping I just get so depressed that I can just approach women randomly and not even care about all the rejections and awkwardness, but I'm just to sensitive for that

My dating app experience has been pretty poor too. Usually I only match with self-absorbed Kpop or Kdrama lovers who mistake me for Korean then quickly drop me once they realize I'm not.

Thanks, you call yourself insecure but you still thought me a beautiful lesson, as everyone's experience is unique.
I think you write all this status not because you are insecure, but because you want to have a decent sexual experience and not a paid one and you are just putting all your efforts in it. It is not an evil thing(even if you think so), it is just your goal. Truly evil ppl don't even doubt themselves and just act reclessely.
What is your and her's job btw?(if you want to answer).
Your goal is your goal, but if you want my opinion, you are trying a very difficult mission( you are trying to have all things at once first time+crush+job) and also you are not measuring the consequences... She may expect something later, like a relationship with a mature man and you will have to do/learn all this stuff at once... It is not something that you can just think about, only experience can teach you the proper way.
But anyway, if this is your goal, i would just not loose all this time and try a more aggressive approach, instead of looking at fingers and stuff, ask her more direct questions and try to close the match. If you spend so much times fantasizing on this relationship only, you may loose other opportunities...

I genuinely do want a relationship and not just sex though. The intimacy is the most important aspect of it for me. I even coined the term 'intimacel' to describe me a little better. It's still disgusting to say but it suits me well. Sometimes I think even just having the experience would be enough to set me right as long as it starts off well enough but who knows.

We both work part-time for a big well-known retail company. Her department is slightly different than mine and more specific but I sometimes get sent to help her out. My shift is usually at night while hers is from afternoon to evening. That's about all I'm willing to divulge on that subject.

Understand boundaries and I wouldn't worry about the what people say about limerence. If you don't do those bad things it'll be fine.

Motivation to work on yourself in the face of failure... That is tough.


What if someone far worse of than you came up to you, unable to help themselves. Do you think you would try to help? If so, why do you assume it's evil to ask for help when you need it?

How can I not worry about doing bad things when I don't understand boundaries beyond not approaching her at all? In general, even just talking to her always feels like I'm violating her personal space except when she talks to me first.

If someone with my exact same situation or worse came up to me, I wouldn't really know what to tell them. All I can say is that I don't know them enough so they're probably not as bad as me. I know how bad I am. I know the extent of my evil that is only being held back by laziness and fear. Without these traits I'd be willing to cause so much damage to the world. I only suck at articulating just how badly I'd act if given the freedom to but that doesn't mean the extent of my evil is to be underestimated. For them, I could maybe see a way for me to forgive them if they don't personally cause me any trouble but I still doubt I could help anyone improve.

I'm sorry, there is no dating service that uses "dick size" as a measurement of anything. That's just totally not a real thing at all.

Insecurity sucks, I know, I have dealt with massive amounts of it in my life. There is no easy answer to fix it either. You just have to acclimate to the pain of it, or don't and be single forever, or ctb.

This life is mostly pain. If you can endure enough of it, you can find happiness. I am always on the cusp, one day to the next can be totally different. I don't believe it should be this way, but it is and I can do nothing to change that.

Where'd I mention dick size? I mean just because mine is small, like well below average… I didn't even think to mention it but that's another great point against me. Unless someone else brought it up in which case, whoops.

Out of those three choices, CTB definitely sounds the most appealing.

Mostly true. But imo the most important thing is what comes next, relationships are far more difficult than that. He makes all this drama just for knowing that girl, imagine when he is in the relationship, what will happen?

This is exactly what I'm afraid of even if I succeed. I'm often scared of even burdening her with the thought of me whether she likes me back or not I know I must have been causing her some undue stress already.

 

[derpyderpins]

How can I not worry about doing bad things when I don't understand boundaries beyond not approaching her at all? In general, even just talking to her always feels like I'm violating her personal space except when she talks to me first.

It's hard for me to comment on this specific girl because I don't know how close the two of you are. And, yes, that can be difficult to determine.

You learn boundaries by listening and focusing outward on what she is saying and doing rather than inward on how bad you feel about yourself. If she smiles and makes a joke, that's telling you whatever boundary there may have been is receding. If she says, "sorry I'm tired today," that means the boundary is pretty firm and far out. If you get into a relationship, communication becomes very important, which I'll hit on more below.

If someone with my exact same situation or worse came up to me, I wouldn't really know what to tell them. All I can say is that I don't know them enough so they're probably not as bad as me. I know how bad I am. I know the extent of my evil that is only being held back by laziness and fear. Without these traits I'd be willing to cause so much damage to the world. I only suck at articulating just how badly I'd act if given the freedom to but that doesn't mean the extent of my evil is to be underestimated. For them, I could maybe see a way for me to forgive them if they don't personally cause me any trouble but I still doubt I could help anyone improve.

Theoretical evil doesn't count, man. People who actually do evil things don't have that 'fear,' or they have overcome it by having stronger, worse impulses than you. You're even in a pretty bad state of mind, with some real reasons to be angry and want to do evil, but you still aren't and haven't. I've seen enough evil people to know that excludes you from being amongst them.

I think you would at least be kind to the person. You wouldn't be angry with them for asking you for help, even if you don't know what to do.

This is exactly what I'm afraid of even if I succeed. I'm often scared of even burdening her with the thought of me whether she likes me back or not I know I must have been causing her some undue stress already.

You're not being fair to her, or any other girl, and you are underestimating the honest value of communication. Say, theoretically, she's interested in you, and ya'll get to talking, and you're worried that you're going to hurt her... tell her, eg. "hey, I want to tell you some stuff about me up front. I've not had much success with romance, so I'm really insecure and worried about acting improperly. I might not know how to behave in some situations. Please know that before we go any further." Then, it's up to her. By telling yourself "oh I'm so terrible I shouldn't even approach" you are robbing her of a choice and - frankly - infantilizing her a bit.

 

[tbroken]

I genuinely do want a relationship and not just sex though. The intimacy is the most important aspect of it for me. I even coined the term 'intimacel' to describe me a little better. It's still disgusting to say but it suits me well. Sometimes I think even just having the experience would be enough to set me right as long as it starts off well enough but who knows.

We both work part-time for a big well-known retail company. Her department is slightly different than mine and more specific but I sometimes get sent to help her out. My shift is usually at night while hers is from afternoon to evening. That's about all I'm willing to divulge on that subject.

It's ok. Just think that is you that want the relationship and you don't know what the other person wants. If she gets involved, then you will be the captain of that boat, good luck with that.

 

[thealteredmind]

Calling women "girls" and "females" instead of women is a huge red flag

nah this is bullshit. in my language I can think easily 10+ terms for women. some of them could be considered "offensive", some of them funny, weird. but it's about how you use them and the intention behind. they are never meant to offend.

let the guy use whatever word he wants.

 

[BrainShower]

This situation you're in genuinely really sucks, man. Way worse than mine I feel. To be living so close to the one I love while they are with someone else is a fate I couldn't even imagine. No matter how ugly you are, you have the will of a billion Navy SEALs for even being alive right now.


As I've said before in other threads, I'm not a part of the incel community. I barely know any incel terminology nor do I watch a single incel content creator and I never even made an account on incels.is. I feel like they would all just harp on my wasted potential from how tall I am or something like that so I don't bother. Just because I'm not a member of the community doesn't mean I'm not one though. There are vegans and vegetarians who don't attack meat eaters, Atheists who don't attack the religious, and incels who don't hate women. These can all be true.


My dating app experience has been pretty poor too. Usually I only match with self-absorbed Kpop or Kdrama lovers who mistake me for Korean then quickly drop me once they realize I'm not.


I genuinely do want a relationship and not just sex though. The intimacy is the most important aspect of it for me. I even coined the term 'intimacel' to describe me a little better. It's still disgusting to say but it suits me well. Sometimes I think even just having the experience would be enough to set me right as long as it starts off well enough but who knows.

We both work part-time for a big well-known retail company. Her department is slightly different than mine and more specific but I sometimes get sent to help her out. My shift is usually at night while hers is from afternoon to evening. That's about all I'm willing to divulge on that subject.


How can I not worry about doing bad things when I don't understand boundaries beyond not approaching her at all? In general, even just talking to her always feels like I'm violating her personal space except when she talks to me first.

If someone with my exact same situation or worse came up to me, I wouldn't really know what to tell them. All I can say is that I don't know them enough so they're probably not as bad as me. I know how bad I am. I know the extent of my evil that is only being held back by laziness and fear. Without these traits I'd be willing to cause so much damage to the world. I only suck at articulating just how badly I'd act if given the freedom to but that doesn't mean the extent of my evil is to be underestimated. For them, I could maybe see a way for me to forgive them if they don't personally cause me any trouble but I still doubt I could help anyone improve.


Where'd I mention dick size? I mean just because mine is small, like well below average… I didn't even think to mention it but that's another great point against me. Unless someone else brought it up in which case, whoops.

Out of those three choices, CTB definitely sounds the most appealing.


This is exactly what I'm afraid of even if I succeed. I'm often scared of even burdening her with the thought of me whether she likes me back or not I know I must have been causing her some undue stress already.

You didn't mention the small dick thing, someone else did and I'm sorry I didn't clarify that man.
I understand why ctb sounds the most appealing, because it literally is and I wasn't trying to preach at you at all. I think I was venting a bit of my own frustration, even though I have managed some of the low self-esteem issues my life still royally blows and I do get frustrated over that.

 

[Werewolf.]

This situation you're in genuinely really sucks, man. Way worse than mine I feel. To be living so close to the one I love while they are with someone else is a fate I couldn't even imagine. No matter how ugly you are, you have the will of a billion Navy SEALs for even being alive right now.

Thank you for the nice words, brother. I really wish they were further away from me than they are now. You should also give yourself credit. Being in our situation isn't easy. Most people would have CTB'd a long time ago if they were in our footsteps. I just know it. Regardless, you and I are both in situations that are truly awful. I don't think anyone else would understand unless they live it. It's absolutely horrible. Even those in some shithole country lead better lives than we do, even if they are suffering from hunger. I'd trace places with them if I could. Really.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

You learn boundaries by listening and focusing outward on what she is saying and doing rather than inward on how bad you feel about yourself. If she smiles and makes a joke, that's telling you whatever boundary there may have been is receding. If she says, "sorry I'm tired today," that means the boundary is pretty firm and far out. If you get into a relationship, communication becomes very important, which I'll hit on more below.

So does this mean if she told me that she's tired then I should just give up? Do I still have a chance with her?

Theoretical evil doesn't count, man. People who actually do evil things don't have that 'fear,' or they have overcome it by having stronger, worse impulses than you. You're even in a pretty bad state of mind, with some real reasons to be angry and want to do evil, but you still aren't and haven't. I've seen enough evil people to know that excludes you from being amongst them.

But so much evil in the world truly is founded on fear. Homophobia for example has phobia in the name. My mother is incredibly hateful towards homeless people because she fears them. Then there's me with my infinite bundle of fear, the hatred I'm capable of from fearing almost everything is often too massive to bear. Even if my fear has also saved me from doing such bad things, it doesn't make my evil intentions go away. And is it not more evil that I'm aware of how evil I am and still unwilling to do anything about it? Sure plenty of evil people actually feel morally justified in their actions and don't see themselves as evil but I don't think when somebody kills an innocent and feels bad about it then that makes it go away. That's not how it works sadly.

You're not being fair to her, or any other girl, and you are underestimating the honest value of communication. Say, theoretically, she's interested in you, and ya'll get to talking, and you're worried that you're going to hurt her... tell her, eg. "hey, I want to tell you some stuff about me up front. I've not had much success with romance, so I'm really insecure and worried about acting improperly. I might not know how to behave in some situations. Please know that before we go any further." Then, it's up to her. By telling yourself "oh I'm so terrible I shouldn't even approach" you are robbing her of a choice and - frankly - infantilizing her a bit.

You have a point. I don't want to infantilize her, but I'm still afraid of how I'd act if she said no. I hope I would be too paralyzed by fear to hurt her but I could potentially still do something terrible in the heat of the moment. Even if I don't actually hurt her, I could potentially sabotage my own CTB by trying too early and ruining all my plans…

I've heard of guys trying to communicate openly then getting dumped because the things they had to say were legitimately unhinged. As much as I'd love to have the privilege of communicating openly with someone I love, I struggle to believe how anyone could possibly be willing to accept what I truly am lurking within.

 

[ms_beaverhousen]

This situation you're in genuinely really sucks, man. Way worse than mine I feel. To be living so close to the one I love while they are with someone else is a fate I couldn't even imagine. No matter how ugly you are, you have the will of a billion Navy SEALs for even being alive right now.


As I've said before in other threads, I'm not a part of the incel community. I barely know any incel terminology nor do I watch a single incel content creator and I never even made an account on incels.is. I feel like they would all just harp on my wasted potential from how tall I am or something like that so I don't bother. Just because I'm not a member of the community doesn't mean I'm not one though. There are vegans and vegetarians who don't attack meat eaters, Atheists who don't attack the religious, and incels who don't hate women. These can all be true.


My dating app experience has been pretty poor too. Usually I only match with self-absorbed Kpop or Kdrama lovers who mistake me for Korean then quickly drop me once they realize I'm not.


I genuinely do want a relationship and not just sex though. The intimacy is the most important aspect of it for me. I even coined the term 'intimacel' to describe me a little better. It's still disgusting to say but it suits me well. Sometimes I think even just having the experience would be enough to set me right as long as it starts off well enough but who knows.

We both work part-time for a big well-known retail company. Her department is slightly different than mine and more specific but I sometimes get sent to help her out. My shift is usually at night while hers is from afternoon to evening. That's about all I'm willing to divulge on that subject.


How can I not worry about doing bad things when I don't understand boundaries beyond not approaching her at all? In general, even just talking to her always feels like I'm violating her personal space except when she talks to me first.

If someone with my exact same situation or worse came up to me, I wouldn't really know what to tell them. All I can say is that I don't know them enough so they're probably not as bad as me. I know how bad I am. I know the extent of my evil that is only being held back by laziness and fear. Without these traits I'd be willing to cause so much damage to the world. I only suck at articulating just how badly I'd act if given the freedom to but that doesn't mean the extent of my evil is to be underestimated. For them, I could maybe see a way for me to forgive them if they don't personally cause me any trouble but I still doubt I could help anyone improve.


Where'd I mention dick size? I mean just because mine is small, like well below average… I didn't even think to mention it but that's another great point against me. Unless someone else brought it up in which case, whoops.

Out of those three choices, CTB definitely sounds the most appealing.


This is exactly what I'm afraid of even if I succeed. I'm often scared of even burdening her with the thought of me whether she likes me back or not I know I must have been causing her some undue stress already.

I don't understand what you mean when you talk about this "evilness" about you? Like what traits do you? Or maybe that's too private. Do you have any diagnoses that you know of? Or willing to share? Boundaries seem to be an issue for you correct? You have to take all of this overthinking asay and simplify if. Break it down. I'm a big question asker and it frustrates guys. You're going to have to be open at some point and not be so afraid. Have to be willing to fall on your face and accept rejection and then learn that you won't die from it. People want people all the time who don't want them, and it's hard to accept. But if it's any consolation, they just don't or aren't able to understand you and appreciate you as a person and what you have to offer. So you let them go find someone who they think they has what they want and they will miss out on someone they could have fun with and treat them well. Also if you can set aside infatuation and obsession (which both are just not healthy and not real relationships so you want to stick to the facts so you dont only see girls with rose-colored glasses) and get to know her enough, you'll find things that don't mesh with you and that you can't accept and it'll make it easier to move on. Have you seen the Netlfix series called "You"? People romanticize him and like him because he has good intentions, but lacks boundaries and can't manage a balanced love, only an obsessive love, even a one-sided love. Maybe you should watch that and see if you identify.

So does this mean if she told me that she's tired then I should just give up? Do I still have a chance with her?


But so much evil in the world truly is founded on fear. Homophobia for example has phobia in the name. My mother is incredibly hateful towards homeless people because she fears them. Then there's me with my infinite bundle of fear, the hatred I'm capable of from fearing almost everything is often too massive to bear. Even if my fear has also saved me from doing such bad things, it doesn't make my evil intentions go away. And is it not more evil that I'm aware of how evil I am and still unwilling to do anything about it? Sure plenty of evil people actually feel morally justified in their actions and don't see themselves as evil but I don't think when somebody kills an innocent and feels bad about it then that makes it go away. That's not how it works sadly.


You have a point. I don't want to infantilize her, but I'm still afraid of how I'd act if she said no. I hope I would be too paralyzed by fear to hurt her but I could potentially still do something terrible in the heat of the moment. Even if I don't actually hurt her, I could potentially sabotage my own CTB by trying too early and ruining all my plans…

I've heard of guys trying to communicate openly then getting dumped because the things they had to say were legitimately unhinged. As much as I'd love to have the privilege of communicating openly with someone I love, I struggle to believe how anyone could possibly be willing to accept what I truly am lurking within.

Lurking within, that which you'd rather not rreveal to even us? let alone ber?
All you can do is be honest and ask her questions. If you're not sure of something, ask. That's pretty much all you can do other than what you've already been doing. Girls appreciate honesty. They say when dating, it takes 3mo to see who that person truly is. There's some truth to that. Because we put on our best selves to impress and be liked but we cant hold up that front forever, so that's people let go and loosen up and conflict can arise. Since you're so inexperienced you might as well be confident when you talk about being inexperienced and let hang out so to speak. Do you have any female in person friends that you like platonically? If you could get some practice in with talking to girls one-on-one you'd get some practice in and be more comfortable in general and better suited to hit up your crush.

 

[Endisclose]

In case you haven't seen my last status, which to be fair, why would you? On Monday I had a full-on panic attack during my shift at work. The girl I have a crush on wasn't working that day but she was there all the same, shopping with another man. I didn't get time to check if this man was actually cucking me or not but it doesn't matter because of the way she looked at me when she saw me. She looked kind of terrified to see me because she immediately turned away instead of even acknowledging or trying to greet me. That was all she needed to do. I think it's well and truly over. I think September might be too late. I really want to CTB sooner while the despair is still icy hot but I still need to prepare some more.

Now I know what you might be thinking, "so what? Just move on, idiot." Well guess what? I don't want to. I give up on life but I will not give up on her because I feel like this is a good reminder of why I need to die in the first place. She clearly hates me and the second I foolishly move on to someone else is the moment I set my heart up to just get broken again. I feel like even if I did manage to find someone at this point I'm carrying so much anger and trauma from my previous rejections that whoever is stupid enough to give me a chance is in for a rude awakening. I fear I will become like my father where all I can do is solve my issues with yelling and violence. I wish he had killed himself but he never would. The only way I can move forward is to move away from living.

I'm sorry. I'm so sorry that I'm so pathetic that I had a real life or death panic attack just because I got implicitly rejected. I'm such a cowardly spineless disgusting little creep for placing all my self worth into someone who must know how evil I am and that's why she doesn't like me. There's people here suffering from real problems and here I am being this affected by something as mundane and pathetic as this. Even other incels face genuine issues with having a lack of height or friends. I'm six feet tall and have lots of friends and yet I still managed to fuck up so badly that I'm a 30 year old kissless, dateless virgin. I'm so sorry I have all this power and yet I've done nothing but waste it on my own fears. I have so many things that so many others here want to kill themselves for not being able to have and yet I can't make anything out of it. I can't make a life worth living all I can make is more misery and suffering for the poor females I eventually come to feel attraction for.

I'm so sorry and it's just not enough. The longer I'm allowed to continue to live the more I'll potentially ruin their lives by having me be attracted to them.

I truly feel the only way I can prevent further pain is by CTB. It's the only comfort I have left. I don't care if my family and friends don't want me to. I don't care about their feelings. If anything, I laugh at the fact they were tricked by someone as stupid as me into caring. None of them even actually want to help me in a way that actually makes sense to me. All I get told is the same cliche stupid platitudes like how I'm not an incel, I'm not evil, I can find someone. Shut up already! Why the fuck would I not be an incel if I made it this long as a virgin? They then say that 30 isn't that old. YES. IT. IS. Be fucking for serious. If I was someone they didn't know or someone they disagree with of course they'd believe that a 30 year old virgin is pathetic. Why am I so special? I'm not! I'm not special and that's why my death should mean nothing to them!

I have two more days off of work before I see her next but I don't expect things will get any better anytime soon. If you're still here, thanks for seeing this shitty rant I guess. It's not like it means anything. I just wanted to occupy some space and maybe grab some attention. I don't know. I want love so bad but I know I don't deserve it. I know that even if I move on I'll never fully be over this current interest and that's no fair to whoever comes next. My panic attack was related to me hurting people around me. I almost injured someone with the cart I was pushing because I was so distracted.

I am sorry, the reason you are going through all this is because you are defining your self worth by your capacity to evoke sexual interest from women in general and this woman in particular. I just wish you'd see that there is so much more to this world than just sex..

Generally in my experience women who are worth being around tend to appreciate people who are well read, knowledgeable and cultured and have good values.. I wish you'd at least know and realize why you are being rejected.

Can you imagine yourself in the shoes of a woman? Just close your eyes and think you are a woman. Now what would you want from a man? Would you be attracted to yourself in that case. If not why? If you try to become well read, knowledgeable, cultured etc.. with the goal of landing a woman, you'll surely get frustrated cause those things take time I'd say at least 5 to 10 years.

I feel your main problem may be coming from sexual frustration possibly having a distorted outlook on women that's influenced by heavy porn consumption and having expectations that don't conform to reality. I think the answer would be to accept your situation and walk away from all worldly desires mainly sex and food at least for a short while at least about 3 to 4 months. The sex and food could be getting your hormone levels (dopamine,testosterone) out of whack and could be distorting your thinking. You need to completely walk away and detox for a while to be able to think calmly again.

Spend lots of time in nature, listen to slow soothing music, meditate, watch art cinema. There are so many great books you can read from literature and philosophy. I fell in love with Somerset Maugham's short stories as a child. I am sure you'll love them and I'd urge you to read nicomachean ethics by Aristotle if you want to sort your life out and understand why you are going through what you are going through.

 

[4everDone]

Nah ur cooked guy. People with enough self awareness don't post it online, and that's the problem. People who we might trust in the long run, after learning about themselves might turn into complete unbearable cunts. We all suffer the consequences of this process and the best interests of the majority would just to ignore them. Play their game = loose their game. And that's enough said about these sick fucks.

 

[Houkki6404]

In case you haven't seen my last status, which to be fair, why would you? On Monday I had a full-on panic attack during my shift at work. The girl I have a crush on wasn't working that day but she was there all the same, shopping with another man. I didn't get time to check if this man was actually cucking me or not but it doesn't matter because of the way she looked at me when she saw me. She looked kind of terrified to see me because she immediately turned away instead of even acknowledging or trying to greet me. That was all she needed to do. I think it's well and truly over. I think September might be too late. I really want to CTB sooner while the despair is still icy hot but I still need to prepare some more.

Now I know what you might be thinking, "so what? Just move on, idiot." Well guess what? I don't want to. I give up on life but I will not give up on her because I feel like this is a good reminder of why I need to die in the first place. She clearly hates me and the second I foolishly move on to someone else is the moment I set my heart up to just get broken again. I feel like even if I did manage to find someone at this point I'm carrying so much anger and trauma from my previous rejections that whoever is stupid enough to give me a chance is in for a rude awakening. I fear I will become like my father where all I can do is solve my issues with yelling and violence. I wish he had killed himself but he never would. The only way I can move forward is to move away from living.

I'm sorry. I'm so sorry that I'm so pathetic that I had a real life or death panic attack just because I got implicitly rejected. I'm such a cowardly spineless disgusting little creep for placing all my self worth into someone who must know how evil I am and that's why she doesn't like me. There's people here suffering from real problems and here I am being this affected by something as mundane and pathetic as this. Even other incels face genuine issues with having a lack of height or friends. I'm six feet tall and have lots of friends and yet I still managed to fuck up so badly that I'm a 30 year old kissless, dateless virgin. I'm so sorry I have all this power and yet I've done nothing but waste it on my own fears. I have so many things that so many others here want to kill themselves for not being able to have and yet I can't make anything out of it. I can't make a life worth living all I can make is more misery and suffering for the poor females I eventually come to feel attraction for.

I'm so sorry and it's just not enough. The longer I'm allowed to continue to live the more I'll potentially ruin their lives by having me be attracted to them.

I truly feel the only way I can prevent further pain is by CTB. It's the only comfort I have left. I don't care if my family and friends don't want me to. I don't care about their feelings. If anything, I laugh at the fact they were tricked by someone as stupid as me into caring. None of them even actually want to help me in a way that actually makes sense to me. All I get told is the same cliche stupid platitudes like how I'm not an incel, I'm not evil, I can find someone. Shut up already! Why the fuck would I not be an incel if I made it this long as a virgin? They then say that 30 isn't that old. YES. IT. IS. Be fucking for serious. If I was someone they didn't know or someone they disagree with of course they'd believe that a 30 year old virgin is pathetic. Why am I so special? I'm not! I'm not special and that's why my death should mean nothing to them!

I have two more days off of work before I see her next but I don't expect things will get any better anytime soon. If you're still here, thanks for seeing this shitty rant I guess. It's not like it means anything. I just wanted to occupy some space and maybe grab some attention. I don't know. I want love so bad but I know I don't deserve it. I know that even if I move on I'll never fully be over this current interest and that's no fair to whoever comes next. My panic attack was related to me hurting people around me. I almost injured someone with the cart I was pushing because I was so distracted.

hey buddy!!
I might not be the best person at giving advice (and I know it's a bit late) but here we go
First of all, you are suffering a real problem, if it's making you doubt your self-worth, wanting to give up on life and making you feel horrible stuff like panic attacks then it is a real problem.
I just want you to think about that, ponder about what you're feeling. I know it might be hard, as it hurts, because our natural response as humans is to flee from pain and go towards what makes us feel good.
It will hurt, heck it will hurt a lot, but once you've realized what you're feeling (especially from a third person view) you will be able to judge what's best for you right know.
And even if you say "well I've done this before and I think the same way I was thinking before" it's okay, try again, it's hard to get it right from the first time.
I just want you to know that what you're feeling is a real problem and it's completely normal to feel what you're feeling in this situation.
I'm going to tell what I've experienced from the other side of the coin.
I had a friend in sixth grade that had a crush on me, he asked me out about 3 times I guess? But I didn't feel the same, it wasn't because of his physical appearance or personality, no no no no I loved his personality, he was my best friend!
And still I rejected him, why? I just didn't feel the same.
It's not anyone's fault, especially not his and it's also not your fault.
People like people and other people dislike other people and there's nothing you can do about it.
The whole "looksmaxx" or other "maxxing" don't really exist in my opinion.
Some people are friends, others are couples and others are nothing, and that's okay.
Imagined if everyone in the world was your friend, if everyone was your lover. It would be a mess!! You wouldn't find time to be with everyone and they would get sad because of that.
And now is the time you say "but I just want one person, not everyone, why can't I have one??"
And I ask the same question to myself everyday, even tho I rejected my friend there doesn't mean it was because I liked someone else, or someone else liked me, nononono.
If you knew me in real life you would know that I have *zero* competition.
But in the end, it was I that rejected him, if hadn't, maybe I wouldn't be single today.
But what's the point, what's the point of dating someone who's not compatible with you romantically?
Just to fulfill the need of affection? Maybe
But it wouldn't be truly fulfilling, it wouldn't.
You might think you and that girl were compatible but probably you weren't (because if you were, she wouldn't have turned away at the market)
And I know it's hard to hear that, I know. I'm going through the same right now, I have to tell myself that they do not like me the same way I like them, and it hurts, but we're not compatible (they do not like women)
All of that it's just to say: it's not necessarily your fault that she doesn't feel the same way okay?
It's fine, it's okay buddy, take your time and ponder about it, it'll take a while but eventually it'll feel better and I know that this advice socks and you're tired of listening/reading it but it's true, believe me it's true.
And I sure know that ctb looks like an amazing option right now, I feel the same too.
And yet I'm here, typing this to you and I'm going to use a phrase from jaiden animations:
"If you can't help yourself, help others" (not sure if that's exactly what she said lmao)
I know it's not good to only be alive to help others but, that's what I'm doing right now, to prevent me from ending myself.
I'm saying this because even though I think suicide is a good option for me, I couldn't ever say that to you. I could never tell you to die, never.
I would hate my self until eventually die if I told you to end yourself.
So please, ponder
I know this is hecking long, but please believe me
Try once more
Help others
If you can't help yourself.
best wishes my buddy <3

 

[derpyderpins]

So does this mean if she told me that she's tired then I should just give up? Do I still have a chance with her?

Unless she said "I'm tired of you" or something that otherwise pointed directly to you, no you should not give up and no it doesn't change your chances. Sometimes people just need some space temporarily, and that is the boundary.

But so much evil in the world truly is founded on fear. Homophobia for example has phobia in the name. My mother is incredibly hateful towards homeless people because she fears them. Then there's me with my infinite bundle of fear, the hatred I'm capable of from fearing almost everything is often too massive to bear. Even if my fear has also saved me from doing such bad things, it doesn't make my evil intentions go away. And is it not more evil that I'm aware of how evil I am and still unwilling to do anything about it? Sure plenty of evil people actually feel morally justified in their actions and don't see themselves as evil but I don't think when somebody kills an innocent and feels bad about it then that makes it go away. That's not how it works sadly.

When you say "hatred," do you do anything? Did you kill someone? Or are you referring entirely to feelings inside of you? If so, there's nothing to "do" about it other than self-care to try and help your mental health.

You have a point. I don't want to infantilize her, but I'm still afraid of how I'd act if she said no. I hope I would be too paralyzed by fear to hurt her but I could potentially still do something terrible in the heat of the moment. Even if I don't actually hurt her, I could potentially sabotage my own CTB by trying too early and ruining all my plans…

If she says "no," you say "I totally understand" and move on. I get that you have limerence and it's driving you nuts but the only way out of the fantasy world is to step into reality. If you don't want to commit evil you have to plan and know that hearing "no" is a possibility. Commit to waiting a good amount of time before taking any action. Now, while you aren't in that place, acknowledge that you won't be thinking straight and will need to step back from things.

I've heard of guys trying to communicate openly then getting dumped because the things they had to say were legitimately unhinged. As much as I'd love to have the privilege of communicating openly with someone I love, I struggle to believe how anyone could possibly be willing to accept what I truly am lurking within.

If you can't communicate, that relationship won't work.

You can communicate without going into specific details that might upset people. Rather than "I just want to slit my own throat and I picture the blood coming out and I want to taste my own blood as my useless body withers away!", maybe try "I'm having some mental struggles right now, particularly thinking about life and purpose. I don't feel good about me, and feel like I deserve to suffer." Almost everyone can relate to the latter, even if - for them - it was a passing feeling they had for a minute 10 years ago.