Discussion Important - There a big issue here with people accusing others of being "pro-life" far too much.

[lostinwoe]

At this point most new discourse on methods is simply needless repetition. I think people need to have enough media literacy to look at mega threads before starting new threads, as it's turning into a game of telephone where things are being distorted over time and people do not go and fact check. This is incredibly dangerous when it comes to people playing with life and death. Even in your most desperate moments, it is still important to use some critical thinking and do your own research. However, I don't think that these are due to people being pro-life and trying to sway people, I think it is coming from people who are misinformed and anxious.

Especially with all of the misinformation being spread around, it's even more important to ask people to stop and self reflect when they appear anxious, unsure, or seem to have picked up false information about something. That does not make someone pro-life.

them being misinformed and anxious is exactly my point their misinformation causes them to spread more misinformation then those people they spread it to spread it to others and so on, its exactly how propaganda works and it all stems from a pro lifer that uses our vulnerabilities to spread wrong info and convince us death isnt good so instead we should correct everyone and encourage there desire to die.

 

[willitpass]

them being misinformed and anxious is exactly my point their misinformation causes them to spread more misinformation then those people they spread it to spread it to others and so on, its exactly how propaganda works and it all stems from a pro lifer that uses our vulnerabilities to spread wrong info and convince us death isnt good so instead we should correct everyone and encourage there desire to die.

I don't think it stems from a pro-life mindset. I think what happens is user X joins the site, they start reading SN threads. They see some where people say they're in pain. They get nervous that the method will be painful. They are anxious because they want to CTB but are terrified of being in pain and feel trapped in life. User Y then makes a post asking about SN. User X, despite not having tried it or being very knowledgeable, responds that it is painful from what others have said, because user X is anxious, worried, and doesn't want themselves or others to die in pain. User Y takes what user X said as fact without considering other aspects and the goes on to post to other threads that SN is painful. None of it stems from pro-life, it stems from struggling, misinformed people not considering the implications of what they say. It happens in any major group, but unfortunately on a site like this misinformation can be outright dangerous. It is a difficult thing to moderate without taking away the free speech discussion aspect of a forum. It's also difficult to manage because if a user is convinced something, and a user with personal experience and extensive knowledge says "No XYZ does not to blah blah blah", the user will seek out confirmation bias and refuse to believe otherwise. I don't believe it comes from a pro-life issue though.


To clarify: I have survived SN but this is not meant to turn into a discourse on whether SN is painful or not. It was simply the first example in my head. It isn't a discussion on SN and pain, it is an example of how misinformation is spread and nothing more.

 

[lostinwoe]

Impulsive implies that they didn't think it through, which is never good a thing. It may work out for some people, but the more impulsive it is, the the increased chances of it being a disaster for the person involved.

Surely any reasonable individual would agree that it's probably better to think through the decision to CTB before you do it?

How is impulsive suicide ever any better?

The more impulsive it is the more likely -

A) It will be a Poor/rushed attempt and therefore failed attempt, or a far more painful death.
B) They haven't reviewed all of their options and therefore may have been able to create a better life if they did think it through more
C) They get desperate and do it in a way that brings harm to others directly, such as throwing themselves in front of a vehicle.

There is absolutely not benefit in a suicide being less thought through and more impulsive.. Or at least the pros don't outweigh the cons.

Also where in the rules does it state that convincing someone not to kill themselves is against the rules?

Convincing them does not = forcing them not to. You could convince someone to remain alive for many different reasons that are not manipulative.

You're almost implying that convincing someone not to do something is a negative thing, as if it's a form of manipulation, which it may not be.

I could convince someone not to do it because I make them aware that I and others care about them, and that gives them reason to live. And what if that person goes on to resolve their issues and lives a good life now? How is that a bad end result? If the only thing stopping them is that they changed their mind because of what you've said, they still maintain their individual autonomy anyway!!!

Convincing someone not to kill themselves doesn't necessarily involve any manipulation, coercion, lying or any necessarily detriment to the person being convinced to stay alive.

If you've been convinced to remain alive, then there's a good chance you're not ready to do it yet anyway.

If someone on the internet can make an argument to convinces me to stay alive, then I'll accept i'm not 100% sure, therefore I should consider holding off.

"may have been able to create a better life if they did think it through more" is such an ignorant thing to say you don't know what people are going through in their head I've attempted 5 times in the last 2 years and still wish it would've worked the first time and I know when I'm older ill think the same thing, things do not "get better" they just get hidden under other feelings and thoughts, in the future you'll realize that you wanted to die and you'll regret not going through with it that's just how depression works, manipulating people to live just so they can go through this cycle is horrible

for the sn thread you were talking abt in example 2 I'm honestly glad she found her escape and found peace she said she felt regretful at the end but that's a thing everyone will feel its a basic human response to death and will happen to everyone when they are dying its impossible to be 100% at peace with wanting to die

I don't think it stems from a pro-life mindset. I think what happens is user X joins the site, they start reading SN threads. They see some where people say they're in pain. They get nervous that the method will be painful. They are anxious because they want to CTB but are terrified of being in pain and feel trapped in life. User Y then makes a post asking about SN. User X, despite not having tried it or being very knowledgeable, responds that it is painful from what others have said, because user X is anxious, worried, and doesn't want themselves or others to die in pain. User Y takes what user X said as fact without considering other aspects and the goes on to post to other threads that SN is painful. None of it stems from pro-life, it stems from struggling, misinformed people not considering the implications of what they say. It happens in any major group, but unfortunately on a site like this misinformation can be outright dangerous. It is a difficult thing to moderate without taking away the free speech discussion aspect of a forum. It's also difficult to manage because if a user is convinced something, and a user with personal experience and extensive knowledge says "No XYZ does not to blah blah blah", the user will seek out confirmation bias and refuse to believe otherwise. I don't believe it comes from a pro-life issue though.


To clarify: I have survived SN but this is not meant to turn into a discourse on whether SN is painful or not. It was simply the first example in my head. It isn't a discussion on SN and pain, it is an example of how misinformation is spread and nothing more.

you might not believe its comes from pro lifers but I honestly do there was a thread not to long ago about a reddit post of a pro lifer that would convince people to not want to cbt and would do things like play games with them and manipulate them into living longer they had thousands of post on their account

maybe I'm just paranoid tho who knows

 

[anhedonya]

I'm not trying to be mean but do you hear yourself..? "Things do not get bette they get hidden in the future you'll realize you wanted to die." What? I understand you're suffering and I'm sorry for that but this is exactly the kind of all or nothing completely anti-natalist and anti-recovery mindset that makes people call others pro-life for basic kindness. Recovery is possible for a lot of people, there is a chance that people might one day feel better if their circumstances change, I know many people (including me) feel doomed but that's just it most of the time- a feeling. For a LOT of people, they are not truly "doomed" and have chances for circumstances to change and their life to improve. Depression is real but it is not a death sentence.

I'm sorry you feel this way about yourself but that can't be how you think about others. Please reread what you said.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

yeah the second example girl was probably regretful because of the pain she was in, not because of a conscious decision. when you're in pain you obviously want it to end. i don't think that her situation was sad, because it was just a natural reaction to pain. anyway i'm happy she succeeded because now she's at peace

I agree. I bet that even somebody like FC (who is perhaps the last human here to ever voluntarily choose life) would say that she regretted a suicide attempt in the middle of an SN suicide attempt because of survival instinct and pain. It's due to pain and survival instinct, not about not wanting to be dead, that caused that girl to say what she said

 

[lostinwoe]

I'm not trying to be mean but do you hear yourself..? "Things do not get bette they get hidden in the future you'll realize you wanted to die." What? I understand you're suffering and I'm sorry for that but this is exactly the kind of all or nothing completely anti-natalist and anti-recovery mindset that makes people call others pro-life for basic kindness. Recovery is possible for a lot of people, there is a chance that people might one day feel better if their circumstances change, I know many people (including me) feel doomed but that's just it most of the time- a feeling. For a LOT of people, they are not truly "doomed" and have chances for circumstances to change and their life to improve. Depression is real but it is not a death sentence.

I'm sorry you feel this way about yourself but that can't be how you think about others. Please reread what you said.

like i said theres a recovery place on this site you can go and help people over there so i dont understand why ppl are over here trying to convince us that theres another way if we literally found this forum, found and researched the methods, and bought sn then we obv have thought it through? so i dont understand why ppl like the op think they know what we are going through? regret is a neurological response and comes with all things suicide related it doesn't mean they arnt happy they died

I agree. I bet that even somebody like FC (who is perhaps the last human here to ever voluntarily choose life) would say that she regretted a suicide attempt in the middle of an SN suicide attempt because of survival instinct and pain. It's due to pain and survival instinct, not about not wanting to be dead, that caused that girl to say what she said

exactly survival instinct and regret is something that happens in all attempts i know personally in my partial hanging attempt my body kept pulling back on its own right before i passed out i wasnt trying to prolong myself living but its just a physical/neurological response our brains do on its own

 

[Dark Window]

"may have been able to create a better life if they did think it through more" is such an ignorant thing to say you don't know what people are going through in their head I've attempted 5 times in the last 2 years and still wish it would've worked the first time and I know when I'm older ill think the same thing, things do not "get better" they just get hidden under other feelings and thoughts, in the future you'll realize that you wanted to die and you'll regret not going through with it that's just how depression works, manipulating people to live just so they can go through this cycle is horrible

for the sn thread you were talking abt in example 2 I'm honestly glad she found her escape and found peace she said she felt regretful at the end but that's a thing everyone will feel its a basic human response to death and will happen to everyone when they are dying its impossible to be 100% at peace with wanting to die

you might not believe its comes from pro lifers but I honestly do there was a thread not to long ago about a reddit post of a pro lifer that would convince people to not want to cbt and would do things like play games with them and manipulate them into living longer they had thousands of post on their account

maybe I'm just paranoid tho who knows

How is it ignorant when I didn't even say "WILL definitely create" a good life, I said "MAY have been able". Implying there may be a possibility. I don't know if there is, but I think there's enough reason to assume to the degree that you try to prevent an IMPULSIVE suicide.

I purposely leave assumptions like this open and less concrete, and not assuming anything way too specific and people still get defensive and claim I'm leaping to conclusions about their lives.

Your argument would have made more sense if I said it will definitely get better, which I did not say.

 

[anhedonya]

Nobody is trying to force anyone into believing in their own recovery in this part of the forum, though, all I'm saying is that just because this is the suicide part of the forum doesn't mean we should give up all hope of anyone ever getting better. How do you think people reached the recovery side?

 

[lostinwoe]

How is it ignorant when I didn't even say "WILL definitely create" a good life, I said "MAY have been able". Implying there may be a possibility. I don't know if there is, but I think there's enough reason to assume to the degree that you try to prevent an IMPULSIVE suicide.

I purposely leave assumptions like this open and less concrete, and not assuming anything way too specific and people still get defensive and claim I'm leaping to conclusions about their lives.

Your argument would have made more sense if I said it will definitely get better, which I did not say.

you not knowing there is, is the problem your trying to prolong suffering based on a assumption that it "may" get better i would agree with you and actively be against suicide if it was 100% that it gets better but in most cases it doesn't in most cases depression stays with you your entire life, so if you dont know that it will get better then why prolong suffering? imo like "TheGoodGuy" said I'm happy for people who go through and succeed with impulsive suicides they finally get to be at peace. also i dont think the girl in your example 2 did it impulsively she bought sn online there's a delivery time for that, and had to get everything else together she had more than enough time to think it through so why do you think it was impulsive, she even had a location for it planned

Nobody is trying to force anyone into believing in their own recovery in this part of the forum, though, all I'm saying is that just because this is the suicide part of the forum doesn't mean we should give up all hope of anyone ever getting better. How do you think people reached the recovery side?

it doesn't mean we should give up on all hope, but it also doesn't mean we should push recovery on people if they actively say I need help, or can someone talk to me then by all means help them out, but if they are mid attempt and saying they still have some regrets don't try to push them into thinking it was a mistake. I've said it before everyone will feel that nearing the end of their attempt. its impossible not to

 

[Dark Window]

you not knowing there is, is the problem your trying to prolong suffering based on a assumption that it "may" get better i would agree with you and actively be against suicide if it was 100% that it gets better but in most cases it doesn't in most cases depression stays with you your entire life, so if you dont know that it will get better then why prolong suffering? imo like "TheGoodGuy" said I'm happy for people who go through and succeed with impulsive suicides they finally get to be at peace. also i dont think the girl in your example 2 did it impulsively she bought sn online there's a delivery time for that, and had to get everything else together she had more than enough time to think it through so why do you think it was impulsive, she even had a location for it planned

I am not trying to prolong suffering at all. I'm not stopping anyone from CTBing, that's their choice. If I convince anyone to stay alive, their individual autonomy is still intact, they can still go ahead with it.

Convincing someone to do or not do something is not necessarily mind control.

I don't know that there is a chance, I don't know that there isn't, and in the absence of certainty either way, assuming there MAY BE a chance is not an unreasonable belief at all.

It's like assuming that there may be a god when you can't be sure that there is or isn't.

Assuming that there may be a chance in situations with the lack of evidence, is a reasonable middle ground between believing it will or it wont get better. Keeping your mind open to that possibility is perfectly reasonable.

It is not assuming anything about anyone's particular circumstances, I wasn't addressing anyone specifically and if I was I'd always wait for further info.

 

[anhedonya]

I definitely agree that it's better to let people ask for help or seem like they want it before engaging 100% that way, there are some people where it's very clear they're not looking for anything but methods and I can respect that. But I think fundamentally you're on a different opinion regarding mid attempt. Yes, regret is an integral part of the experience of CTB, and yes, just about everyone will have their SI kick in. That being said, I don't think that regret is nothing but the primitive part of the brain.

Take me for instance. I can't swim. I know the second I go in the water; I'm gone. I also know it's going to hurt more than I can possibly imagine and the fear will be beyond what I've known throughout my life. Yes, there's a little primitive part of my brain right now telling me not to do it, but there's also a personal part of me that wants finality, closure- that wants to be sure the entire way through. When I step into the water, I want to have as few doubts as possible, and if I could swim and regretted it halfway through, I'd want the chance to get out and try again another day if I still want to.

It's all about choice. We should phrase it carefully, but I think there's more than just survival instinct and primitive regret involved with people having different feelings mid way.

 

[DreamEnd]

you not knowing there is, is the problem your trying to prolong suffering based on a assumption that it "may" get better i would agree with you and actively be against suicide if it was 100% that it gets better but in most cases it doesn't in most cases depression stays with you your entire life, so if you dont know that it will get better then why prolong suffering?

That's not how any of this works

Attempters’ Longterm Survival

Nine out of ten people who attempt suicide and survive will not go on to die by suicide at a later date. This has been well-established in the suicidology literature. A literature review (Owens 2002) summarized 90 studies that have followed over time…

www.hsph.harvard.edu

Nine out of ten people who attempt suicide and survive will not go on to die by suicide at a later date.

So in "most cases" as you said. It's actually looking quite the opposite. Having depression stay with you your whole life is a pretty rare occasion

imo like "TheGoodGuy" said I'm happy for people who go through and succeed with impulsive suicides they finally get to be at peace. also i dont think the girl in your example 2 did it impulsively she bought sn online there's a delivery time for that, and had to get everything else together she had more than enough time to think it through so why do you think it was impulsive, she even had a location for it planned

So you are happy that perfectly normal people who had a bump down the road and ctbed are now at peace when they had a full chance to live a normal life after overcoming the bump?

it doesn't mean we should give up on all hope, but it also doesn't mean we should push recovery on people if they actively say I need help, or can someone talk to me then by all means help them out, but if they are mid attempt and saying they still have some regrets don't try to push them into thinking it was a mistake. I've said it before everyone will feel that nearing the end of their attempt. its impossible not to

Sometimes a cry for help is the attempt in itself

 

[lostinwoe]

That's not how any of this works

Attempters’ Longterm Survival

Nine out of ten people who attempt suicide and survive will not go on to die by suicide at a later date. This has been well-established in the suicidology literature. A literature review (Owens 2002) summarized 90 studies that have followed over time…

www.hsph.harvard.edu

Nine out of ten people who attempt suicide and survive will not go on to die by suicide at a later date.

So in "most cases" as you said. It's actually looking quite the opposite. Having depression stay with you your whole life is a pretty rare occasion


So you are happy that perfectly normal people who had a bump down the road and ctbed are now at peace when they had a full chance to live a normal life after overcoming the bump?

Sometimes a cry for help is the attempt in itself

just because they didn't die by suicide doesn't mean they weren't suicidal or still depressed???

perfectly normal?? they were suicidal not perfectly normal?? yes I'm happy they found peace I'm glad they escaped there struggles.

 

[DreamEnd]

just because they didn't die by suicide doesn't mean they weren't suicidal or still depressed???

What it means is that they were able to find a way that did not involve suicide. You realize there are people who live with depression who do not want to die right? They might have had a short suicidal crisis that went away. That is a possibility too but according to you everyone who ctbes is apparently having a long term treatment resistant depression or something. Fortunately this isn't what the data shows

perfectly normal?? they were suicidal not perfectly normal?? yes I'm happy they found peace I'm glad they escaped there struggles.

Um yes you can be perfectly normal then have something happen to you, like a break up for instance that can put you in a short suicidal crisis that is SHORT and in most cases will go away. Of course you are happy when a potentially long and fulfilling lives were cut short all because of short term suicidal crisis. Which is the majority of suicides.

If you are pro death and think death is the best outcome for everyone then just say it so we won't have the need for this conversation anymore.

 

[lostinwoe]

I am not trying to prolong suffering at all. I'm not stopping anyone from CTBing, that's their choice. If I convince anyone to stay alive, their individual autonomy is still intact, they can still go ahead with it.

Convincing someone to do or not do something is not necessarily mind control.

I don't know that there is a chance, I don't know that there isn't, and in the absence of certainty either way, assuming there MAY BE a chance is not an unreasonable belief at all.

It's like assuming that there may be a god when you can't be sure that there is or isn't.

Assuming that there may be a chance in situations with the lack of evidence, is a reasonable middle ground between believing it will or it wont get better. Keeping your mind open to that possibility is perfectly reasonable.

It is not assuming anything about anyone's particular circumstances, I wasn't addressing anyone specifically and if I was I'd always wait for further info.

trying to convince someone to wait and think it through more than they already have for the reason that there "may" be a chance is prolonging suffering. there's no reason to try to make them wait longer if you're not certain it will get better. I agree that keeping your mind open to that possibility is perfectly reasonable but doing that while their mid attempt and trying to make them wait longer and suffer longer than they already have is evil.

 

[DreamEnd]

trying to convince someone to wait and think it through more than they already have for the reason that there "may" be a chance is prolonging suffering.

Or they can recover and live happy and meaningful lives

there's no reason to try to make them wait longer if you're not certain it will get better. I agree that keeping your mind open to that possibility is perfectly reasonable but doing that while their mid attempt and trying to make them wait longer and suffer longer than they already have is evil.

So it's evil, according to you, to stop someone who you think is thinking impulsively in the act of Ctb? Where do you draw the line? What about teenagers ctbing? What about people in drug induced psychosis? Are you gonna stop them and make them "suffer" longer?

 

[lostinwoe]

Or they can recover and live happy and meaningful lives

So it's evil, according to you, to stop someone who you think is thinking impulsively in the act of Ctb? Where do you draw the line? What about teenagers ctbing? What about people in drug induced psychosis? Are you gonna stop them and make them "suffer" longer?

if they are committed suicide because they are in the middle of drug induced psychosis and only because of that then obviously you should stop them. don't twist my words to make me look like a psycho. and if its a teenagers it honestly depends on the situation which is something you don't know

"Or they can recover and live happy and meaningful lives" how do you know they will recover and live happy and meaningful lives? the other commenter on here "TheGoodGuy" is living proof that it could just lead to regret for not succeeding it could very possibly lead to decades of suffering. I'm also an example for this I wish I would've died when I was a teenager. my point is you don't know if they can recover or not so instead of assuming they will let them make the choice if they want to continue living longer or not on their own don't manipulate them into suffering longer.

 

[DreamEnd]

if they are committed suicide because they are in the middle of drug induced psychosis and only because of that then obviously you should stop them. don't twist my words to make me look like a psycho. and if its a teenagers it honestly depends on the situation which is something you don't know

And you don't know either. So what is the neutral action in your view? Let them ctb or stop them?

"Or they can recover and live happy and meaningful lives" how do you know they will recover and live happy and meaningful lives? the other commenter on here "TheGoodGuy" is living proof that it could just lead to regret for not succeeding it could very possibly lead to decades of suffering. I'm also an example for this I wish I would've died when I was a teenager. my point is you don't know if they can recover or not so instead of assuming they will let them make the choice if they want to continue living longer or not on their own don't manipulate them into suffering longer.

You aren't answering the question. What is the neutral action in your view. You don't know if they will recover and you don't know if they will not recover? So what do you do? Do you just let them ctb?

I sent you statistics saying 9 out of 10 people no longer end up committing suicide after first attempt. What do you think this means ?

 

[lostinwoe]

I definitely agree that it's better to let people ask for help or seem like they want it before engaging 100% that way, there are some people where it's very clear they're not looking for anything but methods and I can respect that. But I think fundamentally you're on a different opinion regarding mid attempt. Yes, regret is an integral part of the experience of CTB, and yes, just about everyone will have their SI kick in. That being said, I don't think that regret is nothing but the primitive part of the brain.

Take me for instance. I can't swim. I know the second I go in the water; I'm gone. I also know it's going to hurt more than I can possibly imagine and the fear will be beyond what I've known throughout my life. Yes, there's a little primitive part of my brain right now telling me not to do it, but there's also a personal part of me that wants finality, closure- that wants to be sure the entire way through. When I step into the water, I want to have as few doubts as possible, and if I could swim and regretted it halfway through, I'd want the chance to get out and try again another day if I still want to.

It's all about choice. We should phrase it carefully, but I think there's more than just survival instinct and primitive regret involved with people having different feelings mid way.

yes there is more that just survival instinct but what i mean is that survival instinct is the default response to death ofc there is layers to it depending on everyone's case people will end up having different regrets at the end and some people will not.

And you don't know either. So what is the neutral action in your view? Let them ctb or stop them?

You aren't answering the question. What is the neutral action in your view. You don't know if they will recover and you don't know if they will not recover? So what do you do? Do you just let them ctb?

I sent you statistics saying 9 out of 10 people no longer end up committing suicide after first attempt. What do you think this means ?

i answered both questions already let them ctb don't pry into their circumstances. if they are mid drug induced psychosis, they wouldn't have been able to find this site that easily you can search up suicide forum on google and it will not show up. you won't end up here unless you're actively struggling. for the statistics I answered that too just because they didn't die by suicide doesn't mean they weren't suffering. yes, they could've recovered fully and if they did, I'm glad it happened but you don't know if they did or not you can't read minds.

 

[DreamEnd]

yes there is more that just survival instinct but what i mean is that survival instinct is the default response to death ofc there is layers to it depending on everyone's case people will end up having different regrets at the end and some people will not.

i answered both questions already let them ctb don't pry into their circumstances. if they are mid drug induced psychosis, they wouldn't have been able to find this site that easily you can search up suicide forum on google and it will not show up. you won't end up here unless you're actively struggling. for the statistics I answered that too just because they didn't die by suicide doesn't mean they weren't suffering. yes, they could've recovered fully and if they did, I'm glad it happened but you don't know if they did or not you can't read minds.

Ok so the neutral action in your view is to let them ctb? Thanks now I understand what kind of person you are. You don't know the circumstances so instead of trying to understand them you should just let the person ctb. For teenagers the same thing I assume right? Wicked.

We aren't talking about just SaSu here. We are talking about regular life, since, I assume you take your philosophy on life and death irl it is possible to make a connection. So yes, if you saw a person under drug induced psychosis jump out of the window and you wouldn't know whether they had psychosis or not, by your logic you should just let them ctb since interfering in their circumstances is wrong, according to you. Again, wicked

 

[lostinwoe]

Ok so the neutral action in your view is to let them ctb? Thanks now I understand what kind of person you are. You don't know the circumstances so instead of trying to understand them you should just let the person ctb. For teenagers the same thing I assume right? Wicked.

if that means I'm a bad person then go ahead and label me as that I have adhd so all I do is think 24/7 and I've thought about stuff like this all the time the fact that we are even here in the first place is horrible having kids especially if you have mental illnesses and/or if you are drinking/smoking with a baby is horrible. my view on life is probably completely different from you guys but I personally don't think true happiness is possible. and I've never seen anyone that's truly happy even rich people arnt happy. this world is evil and there's no point in existence in general. it's disgusting to me how people try to take away the right to die by any means. and i see those types of people as wicked.

 

[DreamEnd]

if that means I'm a bad person then go ahead and label me as that I have adhd so all I do is think 24/7 and I've thought about stuff like this all the time the fact that we are even here in the first place is horrible having kids especially if you have mental illnesses and/or if you are drinking/smoking with a baby is horrible. my view on life is probably completely different from you guys but I personally don't think true happiness is possible. and I've never seen anyone that's truly happy even rich people arnt happy. this world is evil and there's no point in existence in general. it's disgusting to me how people try to take away the right to die by any means. and i see those types of people as wicked.

Ok now I understand your point of view. It's all good don't worry about it.

 

[wCvML2]

It's basically just unsolicited advice. I don't care when I see others receive unsolicited advice because it's their conversation but I honestly hate it when people do it to me.

 

[UKscotty]

There are only a small handful of pro-death users. Just ignore the constant drivel they post.

Caring about others and wanting them to get help is just being human.

Wanting everyone to be dead is either very ill themselves or a psychopath with no emotion.

 

[yeh it's all gucci]

For me all this thread did is highlight the users who do lean more towards being pro life.

I don't see life as precious at all, there's over 8.1 billion people alive right now over populating the earth and nothing in the world will change if you, me or anyone else dies, it doesn't mean anything.
No one is special and I wouldn't waste my time trying to talk someone out of suicide on this forum, if they wanted actual help they would be on one of the thousands of websites or hotlines for help, not the one forum for sourcing methods and other suicidal people.

Do it now, do it in a few decades, never do it.. It's all the same. I couldn't give a fk when anyone dies or for what reason. I feel nothing when I read goodbye threads. They can't regret or feel anything once they're dead so what does it matter? No use feeling bad for them, they're dead, it's not like they are going to miss the life they didn't live out.

If this makes me a bad person then you know what, I don't give a fk about that either.

 

[Lifeaffirmingchoice]

People who have chronic pain who come here in all likelihood have exhausted all other options. Asking them if there's more that can be done is like pouring salt into their wounds.

 

[AkaRed]

Just going to throw my take into the ring.

I'm a little torn with this one- but ultimately I think the response needs to be a case by case basis. If a user is posting that is assuredly looking towards CTB (even if impulsive) I usually would avoid giving them words of reconsideration. Sometimes it's just frustrating to hear that.

If someone is posting about a CTB method that is unreliable, extremely dangerous/toxic, etc. I'm inclined to reply just to inform them that their chances are low, and it may be better looking towards other methods to avoid the frustrating consequences of failure when it comes to CTB. If they do choose to try, that is their right.

Maybe this is just my pessimistic mindset, but I do think there needs to be less nuance with the suicide discussion and recovery section. The lines feel blurred a lot of the time, but I do understand why. The recovery section is infinitely less active than here, and most people are inclined to come to this section in hopes of answers. Which means you can get a pretty mixed bag of people, and I have seen some posts that I feel don't really relate to suicide whatsoever, honestly.

On the other hand- having basic human empathy and asking questions is not a bad thing and I do applaud that. I would never go out of my way to encourage someone to CTB, I'd just more listen and accept their personal decisions.

I might ask questions to gain better understanding, but if someone is in chronic pain and wishes to CTB due to it- even at an emotional high, when it comes to those types of circumstances, there often generally can't be a lot more done to help if they have tried multiple things for themselves already.
It's frustrating to hear when you're in that position and just want to vent, and they might've just responded brashly out of irritation. Because they've likely heard it a million times from other people who are not in their shoes.

If they are seeking positive advice, they probably need to be in the recovery section/off-topic for a start.
I don't think it's wrong to try your best to reach out though, and I don't think you're in the wrong for trying. You just wanted to ask, and you didn't say anything necessarily harmful at the end of the day. Valuing empathy and support for those struggling is an admirable trait, and not something you should feel is wrong at all. We are all strangers at the end of the day, and you cannot control how someone takes things.
^
That might directly contradict what was said above, but to clarify I was only trying to provide context into the poster's potential POV.

<3

 

[BojackHorseman]

I agree with what many have said here already: Showing empathy and concern doesnt mean pro-life, as long as its carefully and thoughtfully worded.

I'm not the most active or knowledgeable member so correct me if I'm wrong, but this place trys to justify its operation by telling media that we are not "pro-suicide" but rather a "pro-choice" site. By labeling all attempts to show concern and empathy as a terrible act of pro-life, arent we giving the media and the haters exactly what they want?

As someone who isn't necessairily recovered, nor actively suicidal, I find great comfort here. Some people make comments that people like me dont deserve to be here, which is very hurtful, but thats another topic for another post. But I find great comfort in going to the off topic or recovery section to offer kind words of encouragement to those trying and wanting to get better. I also find myself in the suicide section even when I'm not actively suicidal just to show empathy to others. To share feelings I have or had and just show them they arent alone and people out there understand. Someone said something earlier that is exactly what I say to those people, but I couldnt understand if they meant it as a good or bad thing. I am one of the ones who often says "I wish you peace, however that may be". If that is being construed as pro-life I apologize for that is not my intent. Of course I wouldnt be here if I didnt think we have a right to choose. Right to live, right to die. As someone said earlier, suicide is not a beautiful thing. If that is what someone carefully chooses after making sure of their decision and researching an effective method, then that is absolutely their right and I am truly happy their suffering is over. It is very sad though that it took such an extreme act to end their pain.

I've lost track of where I was going with this. I just wish everyone here peace and happiness, if that means recovery, or a suscessful and hopefully painless death.

 

[Lifeaffirmingchoice]

That's not how any of this works

Attempters’ Longterm Survival

Nine out of ten people who attempt suicide and survive will not go on to die by suicide at a later date. This has been well-established in the suicidology literature. A literature review (Owens 2002) summarized 90 studies that have followed over time…

www.hsph.harvard.edu

Nine out of ten people who attempt suicide and survive will not go on to die by suicide at a later date.

So in "most cases" as you said. It's actually looking quite the opposite. Having depression stay with you your whole life is a pretty rare occasion


So you are happy that perfectly normal people who had a bump down the road and ctbed are now at peace when they had a full chance to live a normal life after overcoming the bump?

Sometimes a cry for help is the attempt in itself

Just because they didn't end up suiciding doesn't mean they weren't still suffering their entire lives.

if they are committed suicide because they are in the middle of drug induced psychosis and only because of that then obviously you should stop them. don't twist my words to make me look like a psycho. and if its a teenagers it honestly depends on the situation which is something you don't know

"Or they can recover and live happy and meaningful lives" how do you know they will recover and live happy and meaningful lives? the other commenter on here "TheGoodGuy" is living proof that it could just lead to regret for not succeeding it could very possibly lead to decades of suffering. I'm also an example for this I wish I would've died when I was a teenager. my point is you don't know if they can recover or not so instead of assuming they will let them make the choice if they want to continue living longer or not on their own don't manipulate them into suffering longer.

"don't twist my words to make me look like a psycho." Yeah, they strawmanned you lol to make your argument seem ridiculous when it's not. All you're saying is that people who have carefully resolved to cbt can take advantage of impulsiveness to do what they have carefully decided is in their best interest

 

[Abyssal]

You mean the funeralcry type? This is what I do: I block them. Block funeralcry right now, you will find it will ease SO SO SO much stress.