My response to Tantacrul and his video.

[Snarlax]

This is my first post on this forum, and Tantacrul's video is the reason I found it.

After lurking around here over the past week, I've come to the conclusion that he is wrong in his assesment. Even though there are some red flags about this forum (like the creators also being behind several female-hostile incel forums), I find that SS is remarkably civil and that the atmosphere is very supportive. The fact that people here seem to spend a lot of time writing eloquent responses, looks to me like something that could inspire the exact hope in humanity that I would have cherised at the time I was suicidal.

To that end, I'm quite dissapointed in Tantacrul. Like user wanttogetonthebus wrote on pg 3 of this thread, I have been folllowing Tantacrul, or Martin Keary, on Youtube for quite a while, and I think he has made very good videos in the past. For example, he has a video about how musical toys of bad quality are patronising to children and adults alike. He talks a lot about showing empathy towards beginners and those not yet enfranchised with something, and calling out those taking advantage of them. I would have thought he would be a bit more understanding towards suicidal people, but the more his video went on, the more tone-deaf it became. The ending was a catastrophe. But the most clueless were the people he interviewed. My god, what self-rigtheous family members and politicians.

I agree with what others have said about Martins relationship with System32. Pointing to the fact that someone is always displaying a positive aura in all your interactions, and therefor would not *really* want to end their life, is naive at best and arrogant at worst. But I disagree that Martin is only going after this forum to gain viewership and sympathy from his audience. I actually think he is going through a trauma. System32 is probably the first person he has "known" that actually went through with suicide. I believe he blames himself for this, and the video is a Youtuber's way of mobilising his feelings. I think he thought he had to do something, and with no other villain in sight, he could only go after the forum. It's like others have said, if you actually get to know the reason why a person wants to end their life, you would see that there are many things to go after before a bleak internet forum, but the poeple that are usually the most apalled when an acquaintance takes their own life are usually the ones that never took time to understand their viewpoint of life in the first place.

There is also another possibility: That Martin has been suicidal in the past himself, and reading about suicide here is triggering for him. Like many people, maybe the toxic positivity is a coping mechanism, and the way he made the video is more to convince himself that suicide is wrong than it is to sway others.

I will be very interested in what Martin does next, for he has historically not been as clueless as he was in that video, and nowhere nere as clueless as the people he interviewed. I believe he is probably still lurking the site. I don't really know what I would do in his situation, becuase even though he has relatively large power on the internet, we all know a Youtuber has nowhere near enough power to actually change any of the things that are actually wrong with the world.

 

[Alcoholic Teletubby]

I would liken the semantics of this to the following scenario:
A child informs a parent that they no longer wish to live. The parent gives a sour expression.

As they lead the child to a seat, they grab hold of their shoulders. The parent then places a loaded gun on the child's lap after they have taken a seat. The parent berates the child while telling them to remain still and stare at the gun. The child is then subjected to a conflicting mix of encouragement and criticism. No comfort in the body.

The parent yells, "Do you know how blessed you are to even be alive?!" Child nods. This routine has been in place for several weeks. The parent's attention is diverted by something else, and they turn to look.

BANG!

The child shot themselves.
As their child lay dying, the parent cries out and rushes to get their phone and dial an ambulance. However, despite their tears and grief, they are unable to see the child. The child wonders why the parent won't hug them during their brief remaining time as the child's gaze bores onto them. 'I really was a burden,' they believe. 'I'm terribly sorry. You won't need to put up with me any longer.'

TLDR; The approach that pro-lifers take to the issue of suicide directly contributes to its continuation. I know my example was heavy-handed.

 

[Snarlax]

As they lead the child to a seat, they grab hold of their shoulders. The parent then places a loaded gun on the child's lap after they have taken a seat. The parent berates the child while telling them to remain still and stare at the gun. The child is then subjected to a conflicting mix of encouragement and criticism. No comfort in the body.

The parent yells, "Do you know how blessed you are to even be alive?!" Child nods. This routine has been in place for several weeks. The parent's attention is diverted by something else, and they turn to look.

I don't really understand the symbolism here. Is the gun supposed to represent something that pro-life people subject suicidal people to?

While I agree about people often behaving patronising towards suicidal people, most people are not actively campaigning for the things that make life miserable for them.

Unless you are talking about conservative politicians and access to good, available healthcare. Then I agree.

 

[punkarmadillo]

I would liken the semantics of this to the following scenario:
A child informs a parent that they no longer wish to live. The parent gives a sour expression.

As they lead the child to a seat, they grab hold of their shoulders. The parent then places a loaded gun on the child's lap after they have taken a seat. The parent berates the child while telling them to remain still and stare at the gun. The child is then subjected to a conflicting mix of encouragement and criticism. No comfort in the body.

The parent yells, "Do you know how blessed you are to even be alive?!" Child nods. This routine has been in place for several weeks. The parent's attention is diverted by something else, and they turn to look.

BANG!

The child shot themselves.
As their child lay dying, the parent cries out and rushes to get their phone and dial an ambulance. However, despite their tears and grief, they are unable to see the child. The child wonders why the parent won't hug them during their brief remaining time as the child's gaze bores onto them. 'I really was a burden,' they believe. 'I'm terribly sorry. You won't need to put up with me any longer.'

TLDR; The approach that pro-lifers take to the issue of suicide directly contributes to its continuation. I know my example was heavy-handed.

I understand and feel that this is very much like the situation that I am in, though it isn't a parent handing me the loaded weapon then refusing to acknowledge their part.this seems to be society as a whole. Refusing to acknowledge their part in the messes they cause. Then they say 'be kind' I say f them.

 

[Alcoholic Teletubby]

I don't really understand the symbolism here. Is the gun supposed to represent something that pro-life people subject suicidal people to?

While I agree about people often behaving patronising towards suicidal people, most people are not actively campaigning for the things that make life miserable for them.

Unless you are talking about conservative politicians and access to good, available healthcare. Then I agree.

Yeah, I did make it really heavy-handed. I was just stuck on the thought and wanted to share it. :cringe n high

I was trying to portray how pro-lifers will berate someone into suicidal ideation, while believing their intentions are an absolute good. Or they're doing it for shits 'n giggles, like politicans.

 

[LastFlowers]

I've seen the update notification,
just how much jeopardy is this site (and what's "archived") in?

My concern is pretty much through the roof now.
I cannot lose this place, I just cannot.
Even once dead, I thought my voice would be able to remain here…so many 'messages'.
So many people whose final goodbyes & sentiments were tendered here, and here alone.

The people attacking this place are diabolical and thoughtless. Jesus Christ.
I've had words for these individuals, but I'm losing them in my fear.

Idk how to access a tor site, can someone explain it?
(I did so a very long time ago, long before I accessed this site and I have only the faintest memory of how I went about it.)
Is it essentially a clone of this place, like a mirror but much less accessible and thus safer from detractors..?

I apologize if any of this is inappropriate questioning for the current thread.
(Is there any other thread talking about this?)

 

[randy]

fuck tantacrul

I get mad when I see his name now. lol

 

[Cathy Ames]

After lurking around here over the past week, I've come to the conclusion that he is wrong in his assesment.

I appreciate that you came here with an open mind and used your critical thinking skills. I've been shocked at the number of people who have supposedly found this place after watching his video, looked at it, and then agreed with him. So... thank you for letting us know.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

I appreciate that you came here with an open mind and used your critical thinking skills. I've been shocked at the number of people who have supposedly found this place after watching his video, looked at it, and then agreed with him. So... thank you for letting us know.

They must have come with only the express purpose of seeking confirmation of their preconceived notions.

 

[Cathy Ames]

They must have come with only the express purpose of seeking confirmation of their preconceived notions.

I agree. Plus it is a biased sample due to his moderation of the comments. But still....

 

[betternever2havbeen]

It's depressing how little these types of people know about mental health. They are people who have never experienced depression or they had it for 2 weeks and then came out of it so think it's that way for everyone. They literally think it's impossible to be suicidal long-term because if you felt that bad you would've CTB already. It's infuriating, I just can't fathom the ignorance.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

I agree. Plus it is a biased sample due to his moderation of the comments. But still....

Even in his thread that he created he saw a range of attitudes about the topic (the teenager's death). It's terrible he painted the community as one giant unsympathetic monolith.

 

[releasespieces]

Wildly inaccurate claims. What an asshole this guy Tantacrul is. It coincides nicely with the numerous failed SN attempts.. it doesn't work and just made me feel sick.…. sure, right… we believe you.

 

[Dead Ghost]

I've seen the update notification,
just how much jeopardy is this site (and what's "archived") in?

My concern is pretty much through the roof now.
I cannot lose this place, I just cannot.
Even once dead, I thought my voice would be able to remain here…so many 'messages'.
So many people whose final goodbyes & sentiments were tendered here, and here alone.

The people attacking this place are diabolical and thoughtless. Jesus Christ.
I've had words for these individuals, but I'm losing them in my fear.

Idk how to access a tor site, can someone explain it?
(I did so a very long time ago, long before I accessed this site and I have only the faintest memory of how I went about it.)
Is it essentially a clone of this place, like a mirror but much less accessible and thus safer from detractors..?

I apologize if any of this is inappropriate questioning for the current thread.
(Is there any other thread talking about this?)

You have to download the browser from its official website:

The Tor Project | Privacy & Freedom Online

Defend yourself against tracking and surveillance. Circumvent censorship.

www.torproject.org

And then, once installed and running, enter the following address in your browser's address bar:
suicidabvrputryeg3mxdwwtwnv3eqj2koztuaiko5zn5rzodtencnad.onion


It's soooo slow and I can't translate in real time.

//

Has de descarregar el navegador de la seva web oficial:

The Tor Project | Privacy & Freedom Online

Defend yourself against tracking and surveillance. Circumvent censorship.

www.torproject.org

I després, un cop instalat i executat, introduïr l'adreça següent a la barra d'adreces del navegador:
suicidabvrputryeg3mxdwwtwnv3eqj2koztuaiko5zn5rzodtencnad.onion


És moooolt lent i no puc traduïr en temps real.

 

[LastFlowers]

You have to download the browser from its official website:

The Tor Project | Privacy & Freedom Online

Defend yourself against tracking and surveillance. Circumvent censorship.

www.torproject.org

And then, once installed and running, enter the following address in your browser's address bar:
suicidabvrputryeg3mxdwwtwnv3eqj2koztuaiko5zn5rzodtencnad.onion
View attachment 104019

It's soooo slow and I can't translate in real time.

//

Has de descarregar el navegador de la seva web oficial:

The Tor Project | Privacy & Freedom Online

Defend yourself against tracking and surveillance. Circumvent censorship.

www.torproject.org

I després, un cop instalat i executat, introduïr l'adreça següent a la barra d'adreces del navegador:
suicidabvrputryeg3mxdwwtwnv3eqj2koztuaiko5zn5rzodtencnad.onion


És moooolt lent i no puc traduïr en temps real.

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond with this!

Once I do that, and reach the site on there, is it essentially the same thing as I am seeing on the .net domain right now?
Do I sign in the same way?

(Is everything that's here, also there?)

Wildly inaccurate claims. What an asshole this guy Tantacrul is. It coincides nicely with the numerous failed SN attempts.. it doesn't work and just made me feel sick.…. sure, right… we believe you.

It's so hard to know who is being genuine and who is not. There's so many reasons to lie but there's also good reason for others to be honest about their experience.
Very confusing.

 

[Dead Ghost]

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond with this!

Once I do that, and reach the site on there, is it essentially the same thing as I am seeing on the .net domain right now?
Do I sign in the same way?

(Is everything that's here, also there?)

It's so hard to know who is being genuine and who is not. There's so many reasons to lie but there's also good reason for others to be honest about their experience.
Very confusing.

I just tried it and everything works the same. Only I can't translate the web automatically and it's very slow.
//
Ho acabo de provar i tot funciona igual. Només que no puc traduïr el web de forma automàtica i va molt lent.

 

[LastFlowers]

fuck tantacrul

I get mad when I see his name now. lol

Is it really just a misspelling of the Pokémon?

 

[Anon1337]

Why is it so difficult for people to accept that for many it doesn't get better? We either live in misery or ctb.

I have been suicidal for over 5 years and depressed for 8 years. I have tried recovery but nothing has changed.

Also.. the idea that long term users are 'malicious actors' is ridiculous. We have been on here for a long time because the site is comforting. It's more than a place to find CTB methods. Outside of this website we have no one to vent to. As much as we hate our lives, leaving this world is difficult. Many suicides are impulsive, unfortunately. SS discourages impulsivity.

I have read many of "Cake 123" posts. They are not a "malicious actor". Even though you didn't use their username, people can figure out what it is. Your theory has resulted in them being discussed on other platforms. No doubt they have experienced stress from this. I recommend changing your name to TantaCruel, it is much more fitting.

 

[Dot]

R thy xpectng th/ ded 2 b mre vocl

 

[SamTam33]

Hopefully now that it's age-restricted, Youtube will stop suggesting it to people since that's how quite a few users found it.

Maybe he'll do a follow-up video where he shares what he writes in his appeal.

Dear Youtube,

I'm a VERY important musician. I look like my great-grandfather, Howdy Doody, and I inherited his musical talents as well. Anyway, I'm trying to break into investigative journalism and/or become a podcast sensation.

Some of my cult members, I mean followers, I mean "subscribers," say I look creepy and I have zombie eyes, but that's not the only reasons why I made a video about suicide.

Did I create duplicate accounts to try and fool the admins? Did I chastise a bunch of suicidal people for not preventing a suicide? Yes, but despite how this sounds, I am NOT crazy...

He'll start with something like that, I'm sure.

 

[lark]

I think it is quite ironic that I discovered this place because of a YouTube video. Though I'm glad I did - suicide is so much of a taboo, you can rarely talk about it with anyone. I think it should be possible to talk about it, as suppressing any kind of thoughts is unhealthy for the mind.

 

[GrizzlyGrapefruit]

Hopefully now that it's age-restricted, Youtube will stop suggesting it to people since that's how quite a few users found it.

It won't be suggested anymore! All age restricted content can only be found through direct search / on the profile's page.

I saw a video outlining how incorrect age restrictions on videos essentially kill them. They showed a graph of total views over time, and once a video got age restricted, that line didn't budge at all. I expect the same will happen to Tant's video.

 

[Unending]

Also.. the idea that long term users are 'malicious actors' is ridiculous.

Right? I was dumbfounded to see that this is the conclusion they came to. That sentiment is a testament to how foreign my type of life experience is to them.

 

[raumzeit]

I found this website because of that video. In the long term, this will be a good thing for this website; lots of new users, seeing how this forum can be found within 10 minutes or googling from his video.

 

[betternever2havbeen]

Why is it so difficult for people to accept that for many it doesn't get better? We either live in misery or ctb.

I have been suicidal for over 5 years and depressed for 8 years. I have tried recovery but nothing has changed.

Also.. the idea that long term users are 'malicious actors' is ridiculous. We have been on here for a long time because the site is comforting. It's more than a place to find CTB methods. Outside of this website we have no one to vent to. As much as we hate our lives, leaving this world is difficult. Many suicides are impulsive, unfortunately. SS discourages impulsivity.

I have read many of "Cake 123" posts. They are not a "malicious actor". Even though you didn't use their username, people can figure out what it is. Your theory has resulted in them being discussed on other platforms. No doubt they have experienced stress from this. I recommend changing your name to TantaCruel, it is much more fitting.

Right? I was dumbfounded to see that this is the conclusion they came to. That sentiment is a testament to how foreign my type of life experience is to them.

I had to laugh at that part of the video. The guy sounded so unhinged and paranoid/delusional, methinks he needs sectioning himself. Must be so exhausting seeing everyone as having bad motives. Not that it's impossible on this site (that goes for any site) and you do have to be careful but the examples he used were nothing like encouraging people to CTB. To him people are either vulnerable and brainwashed, or psychos getting off on knowing people are dying. It's so far removed from reality I can't even!

If CTB was as easy as so many of these outraged people seem to think, we wouldn't need a site in the first place. They make me so angry, this place really helped me out last year when I had a bereavement and I still come back occasionally. They're such hypocrites you'd think they'd be careful what they say about depressed people. I've not read any messages here saying "ok so you've been depressed for years why are you still here?" that's just awful and likely to push a depressed person over the edge and yet they think that's alright to say about people? Pretty sure that kind of thing would be banned on here and yet it's all over those youtube comments. Sounds like online bullying to me. It's depressing to see the attitude to mental health has still not changed, and they wonder why these people don't go to them for help.

I actually haven't been on here much the past few months so I missed the whole Tantacrul thing whilst he was a member but I came across it elsewhere and he brought me back here I was so outraged at his viewpoints-so thanks Tantacrul!

 

[NearlyIrrelevantCake]

I haven't watched the video and don't really care to, probably won't.

The topic of the video came up on another... niche forum that I've been a member of for several years. I'm the blue-censored name here. I never mentioned SaSu by name, simply mentioned "a forum" while in a thread about suicide.

 

[Forever Sleep]

It won't be suggested anymore! All age restricted content can only be found through direct search / on the profile's page.

I saw a video outlining how incorrect age restrictions on videos essentially kill them. They showed a graph of total views over time, and once a video got age restricted, that line didn't budge at all. I expect the same will happen to Tant's video.

Seriously though- HE didn't age restrict his video?!! Surely content creators can do this- right? Surely he knows people are naturally curious? Surely he knows SOME of his viewers are going to be depressed and suicidal themselves. If he believes this place is so dangerous and HE BELIEVES it encourages minors to go ahead and kill themselves- why would he make a video pointing directly to it? Ok- he masked names I presume (haven't watched it.) He seems to think kids are stupid though- they'll find out if they want to! I found this place via the NYT article. (I'm not a minor by the way...)

 

[LastFlowers]

Seriously though- HE didn't age restrict his video?!! Surely content creators can do this- right? Surely he knows people are naturally curious? Surely he knows SOME of his viewers are going to be depressed and suicidal themselves. If he believes this place is so dangerous and HE BELIEVES it encourages minors to go ahead and kill themselves- why would he make a video pointing directly to it? Ok- he masked names I presume (haven't watched it.) He seems to think kids are stupid though- they'll find out if they want to! I found this place via the NYT article. (I'm not a minor by the way...)

Someone else said he monetized it too.
Idk if that's accurate or not, but age restricting your video really kills its ability to get around and get views..so obviously that was more important to him.
He could probably try to justify it by saying he wanted it to reach as many people as possible for "good reasons" but it's still quite ironic considering so much of his argument rests on minors being influenced.
So yea, you got him there!

 

[Forever Sleep]

I found this website because of that video. In the long term, this will be a good thing for this website; lots of new users, seeing how this forum can be found within 10 minutes or googling from his video.

Welcome to the forum. I'm sorry your life circumstances have lead you here.

I'm not so sure it will be a good thing if a lot of these new members are minors who lied during the application process to get admitted. Don't get me wrong- I feel desperately sorry for them- I was suicidal since aged 10. I personally don't think this place should be available to children though.

It can be VERY difficult for forum members to determine someone's age or circumstances unless they are willing to share that information. The poor kid that the video was in relation to, @SpentStardust shared very little and used the forum mainly to talk about his method (which he seemed to have already decided on before coming here.)

I think it's possible all this business will change the forum a lot- maybe for the better- I don't know. I wonder if more people will be reluctant to talk about methods with new members- in case they are a child. Still- the information is available anyway and not just here- so I doubt his video will have changed anything.

If anything- he has just pointed minors in the direction to find this information. I can't believe he didn't think of that. I'm actually kind of horrified to be honest. It's a possibilty that his actions will mean that a minor that otherwise wouldn't have known about this site now does. To me at least- it feels like he's literally throwing them under the bus to prove a point.

I do happen to agree with him that this site ought to be better restricted so that minors can't get on here. This is the internet though- I expect they'll find a way no matter what you do. @SpentStardust was from Italy I believe where I think the site is banned!

Why would you alert people to such a place when it is this easily accessible if your main goal is to 'protect' people from acting on their ideation? Even if people don't engage here- they'll have access to methods. They'll also be alerted to the fact they can find methods online.

I don't know. I'm sure his intentions were good in his mind. He clearly felt deeply moved by @Spentstadust 's death. I just wonder if he considered what his video might do.

 

[Algebrazy]

I also found out about this forum from that video (long time fan of Tantacrul's music software videos), and realized after reading this and other threads that the forum had been misrepresented, and a community I could actually benefit from. I've wondered if the heavy and repeated "don't seek out the website" mantra repeated in the video and his community is driven in part by the knowledge that when people do find the website they will see something quite different to what was presented in the video.