This is it.goodbye

[Tiburcio]

I wonder what happened?

She lost her son by social serviced and now she feels completely destroyed.

Some of us are still trying to support her.

 

[Jon86]

He lost her son by social serviced and now she feels completely destroyed.

Some of us are still trying to support her.

He?

I've read a few of her threads, I was more curious of what happened on the bridge just now. We may never no.

 

[Midnight]

I know you're in very tough circumstances, but should you decide to... I hope you find peace.

Don't really know what to say here as the deed is probably done but i go for the same as rolo said.

 

[6477244ts5]

Yes

This is still not lost. In name of every son who suffered for his parents, please try. The mother's love is stronger than anything in the world.

Please, give yourself the last chance.

Guilting people should not be allowed here.

 

[Tiburcio]

Guilting people should not be allowed here.

Nobody here is guilting.

 

[6477244ts5]

Nobody here is guilting.

She has received several "but your child!" comments. One from someone posting their were about to CTB but guilted her to "live for your son". I understand the sentiment but I have a real problem with people pressuring others to suffer for external reasons. Everyone wants the right to escape their pain but when it comes to parents people pile on the "what about the children" guilt. Yeah its horrible...but it's also hypocritical to pressure someone who cannot hang on like that.

 

[6477244ts5]

Support for someone is one thing. Hoping all of us can find a way to live in peace is one thing. Saying "but just hang on for..." is a different thing and not helpful and often adds more stress.

 

[Tiburcio]

Everyone wants the right to escape their pain but when it comes to parents people pile on the "what about the children" guilt.

It's a responsibility.

Yeah its horrible...but it's also hypocritical to pressure someone who cannot hang on like that.

My parents are in risk of suicide and I assure you as son you wouldn't take that way.

If their escape means my irreparable misery (and her son too), then we should consider again some things.

 

[6477244ts5]

It's a responsibility.


My parents are in risk of suicide and I assure you as son you wouldn't take that way.

If their escape means my irreparable misery (and her son too), then we should consider again some things.

Everyone has responsibilities and everyone who CTB abandons those. None of you would want that pressure added to your pain at a crisis moment. But people think nothing of doing it to parents. "Live for your child" is like "live for your parents, friends, whoever else". It never helps..it just adds pressure.

 

[Smilla]

Support for someone is one thing. Hoping all of us can find a way to live in peace is one thing. Saying "but just hang on for..." is a different thing and not helpful and often adds more stress.

You have a good point.

But, really, when you bring life into this

Everyone has responsibilities and everyone who CTB abandons those. None of you would want that pressure added to your pain at a crisis moment. But people think nothing of doing it to parents. "Live for your child" is like "live for your parents, friends, whoever else". It never helps..it just adds pressure.

A child is an entirely different matter because you have a responsibility towards them. That's a lifetime role you signed up for and abandoning that role
Impulsively is horrific.

I respect her decision, but in the end a child is lost. The trauma will be horrific for him.

Don't conflate dependents with parents or friends.

 

[Tiburcio]

But people think nothing of doing it to parents. "Live for your child" is like "live for your parents, friends, whoever else". It never helps..it just adds pressure.

They are completely different things.

Being a son is completely out of your hands.

Having a son isn't it.

And having a son for forsaking him ruins a life. I'm living it by myself and I know several persons marked, ruined and even traumatized after the loss of one or both parents.

We can avoid more suffering giving support to somebody and preventing it (or pressing how you name it than allowing the orphanity of a child, which is one of the most cruel things somebody can experience. Do you understand?

Now don't quote me more please, duscussing is very tiring.


Also, thank you Smilla for explaining this.

 

[6477244ts5]

But having a child doesn't make you stronger or invincible. Parents have the same pain and pressures children have and sometimes more. You either apply the same standard to everyone...or you are a hypocrite. You either have the right to end your own life...or you don't. No exceptions.

 

[Smilla]

But having a child doesn't make you stronger or invincible. Parents have the same pain and pressures children have and sometimes more. You either apply the same standard to everyone...or you are a hypocrite. You either have the right to end your own life...or you don't. No exceptions.

They made the choice to have a child. Huge difference!

I respect the right of choice but parents should try harder to not CTB.

 

[Tiburcio]

Dude when I said being parent makes you invincible?

It's simple: if you have kids you must be able to care of them. This is serious, kids are no pets and you can't leave them so lightly.

And yeah you are able to en your life... At the cost of your kid's life which will be destroyed. You don't see beyond this, you only think "everybody must can die", without thinking in how destructive could it be.

All this unnecessary suffering can be avoided supporting the parent and if everything goes right, the problem can be solved.

P.S. I would be grateful if you don't call me hypocrite and you show some respect. Thanks.

 

[6477244ts5]

It's simple: if you have kids you must be able to care of them.

SHOULD be able to. But that's not real life. Parents are humans too and all humans can get overwhelmed.

 

[Mari]

But having a child doesn't make you stronger or invincible. Parents have the same pain and pressures children have and sometimes more. You either apply the same standard to everyone...or you are a hypocrite. You either have the right to end your own life...or you don't. No exceptions.

Having the right to - obviously. But the fact that consequences differ and some are directly going to have such impact on another dependent being's life, should also be okay to take into consideration.

 

[6477244ts5]

It really doesn't matter what you think parents or anyone should be able to endure...it matters what people CAN endure. This sort of thinking is why people blame and get angry at victims. Acting like they only cared about themelves etc...but nobody arrives at the end without suffering from all directions and understanding the pain they will leave....they just cannot endure.

 

[6477244ts5]

Frankly I think wanting someone to stay alive so YOU don't suffer is even worse. We aren't talking about people who CTB because they are tired or lazy...these are people who suffer immensely and cannot cope. I don't understand the lack of empathy...esp from other suicidal people. Sometimes you JUST CANNOT GO ON and it doesn't matter what judgements anyone else makes. Shame to see that hypocrisy here.

 

[Mari]

SHOULD be able to. But that's not real life. Parents are humans too and all humans can get overwhelmed.

My feeling is there is something getting lost in translation here. Maybe. Tiburcio's first language is not English..

Fact is, parents have a responsibility to their children in a way that does not go the other way around. Also, making literal life-death decisions based on being overwhelmed is unfortunate as those emotions are going to change.

- And please, throwing words like hypocrisy around is not a minor thing. I, personally would say the same to myself if in their shoes.

 

[Smilla]

Frankly I think wanting someone to stay alive so YOU don't suffer is even worse. We aren't talking about people who CTB because they are tired or lazy...these are people who suffer immensely and cannot cope. I don't understand the lack of empathy...esp from other suicidal people. Sometimes you JUST CANNOT GO ON and it doesn't matter what judgements anyone else makes. Shame to see that hypocrisy here.

People ctb because they are "tired and lazy" , and not "truly suffering"?

WTF are you talking about?

 

[6477244ts5]

I think the sentiment is clear and I have seen it directed at her and other parents many times in many places. People seem to think THEY have the right to abandon life and all their responsibilities....but then don't apply that same right to parents because it will hurt the children. I find that hugely hypocritical. You cannot hold yourself to other standards than you hold others and it's terribly easy to say someone ELSE should suffer more because the thought of the collateral damage rightly upsets you...but if you were in their shoes and couldn't cope you would understand. It's all about empathy. Not about "should".

 

[Smilla]

My feeling is there is something getting lost in translation here. Maybe. Tiburcio's first language is not English..

Fact is, parents have a responsibility to their children in a way that does not go the other way around. Also, making literal life-death decisions based on being overwhelmed is unfortunate as those emotions are going to change.

- And please, throwing words like hypocrisy around is not a minor thing. I, personally would say the same to myself if in their shoes.

Excellent response.

 

[Smilla]

I think the sentiment is clear and I have seen it directed at her and other parents many times in many places. People seem to think THEY have the right to abandon life and all their responsibilities....but then don't apply that same right to parents because it will hurt the children. I find that hugely hypocritical. You cannot hold yourself to other standards than you hold others and it's terribly easy to say someone ELSE should suffer more because the thought of the collateral damage rightly upsets you...but if you were in their shoes and couldn't cope you would understand. It's all about empathy. Not about "should".

Obviously you have kids.

Can you at least admit that the death of a parent is the worst thing that can happen to a child? Do you know what the NUMBER ONE risk factor is for suicide?

Losing a parent in childhood.

No other loss compares. It's lifelong and catastrophic.

 

[musicislife]

FucK I am over the barrier and am scared

:( so fucking sad at this so sad

 

[6477244ts5]

My entire point is just because you have responsibilities...in this discussion children...that doesn't make you able to tolerate more suffering as a human being without breaking down and losing the ability to cope...yet people want to make that so. We all have a breaking point and whether you have no kids or 50 kids that line isn't going to move simply because it will leave damage behind. Yet in every topic where people are discussing CTB and rights and their own breaking point...they suddenly puff up when a parent is involved and add judgement to them. Of all places ones like this where everyone suffers so much they are nearing ending their lives to stop it...I'd expect more understanding. Nobody is saying "screw the kids I don't care how they will suffer"...but having a kid doesn't make you invincible and able to endure anything.

 

[Mari]

I think the sentiment is clear and I have seen it directed at her and other parents many times in many places. People seem to think THEY have the right to abandon life and all their responsibilities....but then don't apply that same right to parents because it will hurt the children. I find that hugely hypocritical. You cannot hold yourself to other standards than you hold others and it's terribly easy to say someone ELSE should suffer more because the thought of the collateral damage rightly upsets you...but if you were in their shoes and couldn't cope you would understand. It's all about empathy. Not about "should".

Agree to disagree.

All about empathy until responsible for another human being's life. Literally. Then it's also about ethics and values. As I said. There is no hypocricy there, I would hold myself to the same standard. Period.

It just seems, you don't acknowledge that having children makes a difference in making these choices. Some of us do.


Take another example. Am I okay with someone going the rough road of sex drugs'n rock'n roll? None of my business. But if there is children involved? ..Yeah. No.

 

[Morning Angel]

OP I don't know if you're still around but if not, I hope you are at peace now. I can't even imagine how painful it must be to lose your own children, and to be expected to live without them w/immense suffering... I can't say I judge the despair you must be feeling. I won't guilt you in your decision but if you're still with us, please consider at least leaving them a thoughtful note explaining why you had to go. They will wonder for years if it is their fault. In any case, you deserve to live life on your own terms regardless. Sending my love to you.

 

[Mari]

OP I don't know if you're still around but if not, I hope you are at peace now. I can't even imagine how painful it must be to lose your own children, and to be expected to live without them w/immense suffering... I can't say I judge the despair you must be feeling. I won't guilt you in your decision but if you're still with us, please consider at least leaving them a thoughtful note explaining why you had to go. They will wonder for years if it is their fault. In any case, you deserve to live life on your own terms regardless. Sending my love to you.

Thank you, Morning Angel. Got side tracked here.

Hope Lara is well, wherever she is.

<3 !

 

[Luke]

I really hope she's not in a "hospital". I mean She went home, all good. Jumped, all good. Coppers intervening... not good.

There's always this third possibility that bothers me.

 

[Bunny13000]

Obviously you have kids.

Can you at least admit that the death of a parent is the worst thing that can happen to a child? Do you know what the NUMBER ONE risk factor is for suicide?

Losing a parent in childhood.

No other loss compares. It's lifelong and catastrophic.

I agree with this emotional trauma in childhood is a massive factor in mental health later on...its almost like passing the baton on..